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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:46:00 - [121] hmm dunno, sting operations are legal surely Property law: CCP is getting thier own property back Tort: no harm is being done to anyone, harm to CCP and its players is being alieviated. So it's contract law they are contending, CCP have a sort of contract with us (and their shareholders) which obliges them to take action. I dunno eBay's ToS, but the seller says "You are bidding on the time it took to get these items" and CCP says "No you aren't, you're bidding on our property, which we only gave to you on condition you wouldn't sell it on eBay" At London tube stations, people broker Travelcards, (24 hour public transport passes). They get them for next to nothing off people who don't need them anymore and they sell them to people who do need them, for less than the issuer sells them. They get arrested. Anyway, I'm no contract lawyer. I know people who are, but they wouldn't have a clue, 'cos I doubt the law has caught up with MMORPGs, has it?
Cadadon	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:58:00 - [122] One of the most refreshing threads I've had the pleasure to read in a long time. Well done and continue the good work. Cad ----- CEO of Talon Syndicate
Taran Blake	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:17:00 - [123] Originally by: slip66 Originally by: Taran Blake What you need to do is to petition GM's for the return of lost security status. now thats a good idea! Well, Concord in a way is interfering with a player NPCing isn't it?
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:29:00 - [124] Taran that is class! You are the greatest legal mind of your generation. The Taran Defence - What is an NPC if not a computer playing the game? Correct, restore the security status, case dismissed!
Lorth	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:46:00 - [125] Originally by: Taran Blake Originally by: slip66 Originally by: Taran Blake What you need to do is to petition GM's for the return of lost security status. now thats a good idea! Well, Concord in a way is interfering with a player NPCing isn't it? As the poster above me said, this is great. Its is after all a computer playing the game, and not an actuall person on the other end of the keyboard. I don't even see an argument as to how this can not be considered NPC'ing. Though I'm certain your not going to get your sec status back.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:52:00 - [126] Originally by: Sreyaluskaya Moyl I dunno eBay's ToS, but the seller says "You are bidding on the time it took to get these items" and CCP says "No you aren't, you're bidding on our property, which we only gave to you on condition you wouldn't sell it on eBay" Yes, and Ebay recognise that. You can enter their IP rights program and have any EULA-infringing auctions relating to your IP (in this case, Eve) removed. They do NOT tolerate sting operations from MMO operatives. I have evidence of this from a very small MMO which tried (the operation was shut down and the devs made to promise not to do it again), as it is against Ebay's own EULA. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.03 23:24:00 - [127] Promise not to do it again on pain of what though? I mean, what is eBay's sanction against CCP? They can't stop CCP giving their own property to a third party. EBay go to court in Iceland to injunct CCP from getting their own property back? It just sounds like there's a lot of room for argument, not all country's legal systems work the same way, and surely the contracts depend on such fundamentals as the definition of "property", in the context of an online game. But OK, I'll take your word for it that you're right. We should continue to work out in-game solutions in this thread cos I reckon there's some potential here.
Angus Tadj	Posted - 2005.12.03 23:55:00 - [128] Good job, Natas. These farmers make me sick when I see them too. I have transferred several million ISK to your account as a donation. I hope it helps.
Odin Skialar	Posted - 2005.12.04 00:28:00 - [129] Hello all, im a new player and have read the 1st pages of this thread. Im not sure what all this macro mining is about. Does it mean people have a program to mine for them while they are afk ? If so how does it haul the ore for them ? And lastly why doesnt CCP ban them if they are using this program to make real life money ... I honestly dont understand why this is a major issue and cant be resolved easily by terminating the accounts of these people ?? Its supposed to be a game
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.04 00:45:00 - [130] Originally by: Sreyaluskaya Moyl Promise not to do it again on pain of what though? I understand their EULA lays out some hefty civil penalties. In any case, I still don't have a problem with individuals and ebay. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.04 02:57:00 - [131] Two kills tonight, this one is my fav'... 2005.12.04 02:20:00 Victim: [removed] Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Royal Amarr Institute Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Raver Shing Security Status: -0.8 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: *Pandemic Thinking (laid the final blow) <<<<<<<<<<<<* Security Status: -0.8 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Thorn Rocket I Name: Drummore Security Status: 4.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -0.8 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Hundesoldat Security Status: -0.6 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Chiburashka Security Status: -0.1 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Destroyed items: Type: Survey Scanner I (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Ice Harvester I (Fitted - High slot) Type: Ice Harvester I (Fitted - High slot) A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Jared VonBargen	Posted - 2005.12.04 05:22:00 - [132] hey, someone mailed me ingame, i deleted your mail, but i have some more names of miners in the Heimatar region, all i really do is scout around for them all day, im like the po-lice!
Arabian Goggle	Posted - 2005.12.04 06:25:00 - [133] Good job on the kills. Has anyone thought of tractor beams, once RMR hits, to drag their cans away? Would this be considered an act of aggression by CONCORD?
Maestro Ulv	Posted - 2005.12.04 06:32:00 - [134] Unfortunatley in an effort to make cool tractor beam implimentation totaly uncool and pointless, not only does the 15km limit, well limit you. But it has to be your cans or your corps according to the Dev page on RMR.
TimeKeepr	Posted - 2005.12.04 06:44:00 - [135] awesome work, keep those pods poppin'!!
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.04 08:37:00 - [136] I've got it, sec hit on barges mining ice should be taken away he he
Kaliesin	Posted - 2005.12.04 10:01:00 - [137] Macro miners in Illuin have got smart, 2 month old accounts using Apocs, now I can't down an Apoc before Concord can down me, sigh.
Squelch	Posted - 2005.12.04 11:21:00 - [138] Are you talking about LINGYONG04, 05 and 06? These characters were in hjortur until I chased them out, it took me a week to do it tho. The hauler for these guys is called equally
Blind Watchmaker	Posted - 2005.12.04 13:27:00 - [139] I hope you guys are petitioning all these macros so CCP know how big this problem is? I'm going to spend a couple of hours touring newbie belts to look for them. SO far I've found 23 in the first system.
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.04 14:08:00 - [140] So few players are hitting the macro's right now that it is like Pssing in the wind. You people need to form your own corps to fight them. We hit our 30 members last night and we rocked. We are cordinating now to take them down in two's and three's. Ya gotta take back YOUR game from these btches A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Gindar	Posted - 2005.12.04 16:32:00 - [141] it's been another bad day for macrominers in jita. Victim: daydreamb Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Pator Tech School Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Drummore Security Status: 3.6 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: gind antimacro1 (laid the final blow) Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Phalanx Rocket I Name: Raver Shing Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Altoon Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Destroyed items: Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Civilian Expanded Cargohold (Fitted - Low slot) Type: White Glaze (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Victim: jiangju Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Pator Tech School Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: gind antimacro1 (laid the final blow) Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Phalanx Rocket I Name: Aidart Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Altoon Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I 3 more have fallen to us. we need more people to kill them faster
mrfireblade	Posted - 2005.12.04 16:45:00 - [142] Natas Liah if you would like some help with your quest let know, I am not bothered losing some smarties
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.04 18:42:00 - [143] good organisational implementation guys lets also get a petition through to ore stealing ie petition the obvious ones after doing research then steal the ore. Take away their assets as well - perhaps use the post petition bounty to produce further ships that can be used against the macro miners - cant wait for RMR
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.04 19:00:00 - [144] Well I past a group of 6 apocs all together going towards a sys with weird names, all in nooby corp...no doubt the next stage of macro ore mining. I set up another acc to have 3 char's of macro killer's.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.04 19:46:00 - [145] Originally by: Maestro Ulv Unfortunatley in an effort to make cool tractor beam implimentation totaly uncool and pointless, not only does the 15km limit, well limit you. But it has to be your cans or your corps according to the Dev page on RMR. Well, replace their can with yours, and then fly in a 20km orbit, tracking the can arround while their industrial's script tries vainly and forever to catch up with the can! Heh. (While likely unviable, it's a nice image) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:27:00 - [146] These ice miners in barges seem not to bother with the jet can thing, can anyone confirm? I too may start a suicide account, can someone post the absolute quickest way to get in a suicide kestral please. (Character creation etc) Thanks
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:42:00 - [147] The ice miners do use haulers, but they move the ice across one unit at a time, through a temporary jet can. I observed this in Kisogo yesterday. Interesting development in Kisogo/Urlen regarding the cruiser Veld miners. They appeared to move the ore to the hauler through a temporary can, one unit at a time! In other words, just like copying and passing out bookmarks. The group doing this was a group of 3-day old Omen cruisers. They would fill their cargo holds with one cycle, then jet a single can, and move the ore across one unit at a time, being scooped by the hauler in a similarly automated fashion. Grabbing the few units of Veld resulted in the can blowing, and jetting of another can. Obviously, when the 3-4 cruisers had each jetted a can only to get it popped, they had to wait 120 seconds until new cans could be jetted, their cargo holds overflowed, and the macro cycle was broken. I didn't work out these details until some time later, when I thought about what I had seen. This was obviously an adaptation to counter ore thieves. The macro was so obvious however, when I petitioned it, the group was insta-banned.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:44:00 - [148] Originally by: Martin Gore Well I past a group of 6 apocs all together going towards a sys with weird names, all in nooby corp...no doubt the next stage of macro ore mining. I set up another acc to have 3 char's of macro killer's. Quick question. Are you exploiting the trial account option, or seting up new paid for accounts? As ccp policy is not to allow recycled alt's in the act of suicide gankings, id like some clarifcation on this, if indeed you can just setup trial accounts at will. Obviously i don't agree with the practice anyway, but there seems like point in arguing against it now, we have allready moved into lord of the flies territory here so im asking on this point, is it legal to setup trial accounts for the pure act of suicide ganking alt's. ----------- When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.05 00:22:00 - [149] Well personally I would be buying a new account because I can't be arsed to exploit the trial account system, it's hardly worth the time for the ú10p/month, and I was thinking of giving a new account a go. Anyway, I consider giving money to CCP an investment, however small, in a game I like playing. Then after seeing how RMR pans out I would probably give the account to my brother if he would just upgrade his 32MB TNT Riva(!) But in general buying accounts to macro mine = big problem right now buying accounts to make money by expoiting macroers = theoeretical problem for the future. Perhaps the macroers themselves will find a way to automate the killing of other macroers, if there's money in it?
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.05 00:34:00 - [150] Edited by: Pandemic Thinking on 05/12/2005 00:34:34 HIS ONE WILL ROCK YOUR WORLD!! We killed this guys retreiver in Jita, hustled our pods back to kisogo to wait out our timer and regroup and refit. Our Recovery Team recovered an Ice harvester mining laser, which we put on the market to pay for more ships. Low and behold the VICTIM purchases the Ice harvester for 2.7 million from us.., Making sure that we have 10 more ships to hit him with... 2005.12.05 00:14:00 Victim: feil[removed] Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Pator Tech School Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Slab McThornbody Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Capsule Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -1.7 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Capsule Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Hundesoldat Security Status: -0.9 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink

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