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Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 22:50:00 - [1] Edited by: Natas Liah on 30/11/2005 22:50:47 Today was a bad day for the macrominer business, for they suffered great losses in the high security belts of empire space, battleships loaded with smartbombs attacked them at multiple locations, all barges, indys and pods were destroyed. Among the dead were the following... ibgtbwg Pingy kyn Mimgyn Xiogngh Titanlan Llnong io KY leing aituby Al ling Plpile Qongn WE toyh QQ toygn NAguo Wongyn All of the above characters have been spotted almost constantly mining in the ice fields of Scolluzer, Sortat, Yulai and now Shihuken. They have all been spotted working together at various times, even after being blown to pieces for the first time, they quite happily sat there as the same person who blew them up before continued to blow them up another 2 times during the next few hours, why did they not run at the sight of the killer during the 2nd and 3rd attacks? Perhaps stupidity, or perhaps scripts arnt designed to warp out at the sight of an obvious incoming smartbomb battleship attack.
Firestarterr	Posted - 2005.11.30 22:56:00 - [2] Edited by: Firestarterr on 30/11/2005 22:57:18 Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? Not so clever huh?
Hexxx	Posted - 2005.11.30 22:56:00 - [3] Bravo and well done.
BloodSpoon	Posted - 2005.11.30 22:57:00 - [4] congrats and good job :D "ooooohh theres nothing wrong with killer robots from venus"
BloodSpoon	Posted - 2005.11.30 22:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Firestarterr Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs in the process? Not so clever huh? casualties of war "ooooohh theres nothing wrong with killer robots from venus"
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2005.11.30 22:58:00 - [6] Um...yes, I really admire your effort, but I'm going to have to agree with Firestarterr here. --------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Firestarterr Edited by: Firestarterr on 30/11/2005 22:57:18 Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? Not so clever huh? We knew exactly what we were going to lose before we started, however several hundred mills is highly over-exaggerating. These were not noobs or trial accounts, each player was a couple of months old at least, each of them has been mining the ice fields constantly, ive tried to talk to them and never got a reply, ive tried bumping their ships and see if they do anything, but instead, after bumping them many km away from the belt, they just sit there, like lifeless, or playerless ships with nobody controlling them, then after about half an hour, some life, they warp out.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:03:00 - [8] Indeed. Good job. Bleh, all you lose is the insurance cost and a few smarties
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Natas Liah on 30/11/2005 23:03:38 Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Um...yes, I really admire your effort, but I'm going to have to agree with Firestarterr here. A battleship fitted with smartbombs, 65m, 25m back on insurance payout, my losses, 35m. several barges going down to 1 battleship, 7-8m barge cost, plus another 7-8m for ice harvs per barge, total losses 16m lost per barge, 5 or more barges lost at a time, almost 100m damage inflicted for my 35m loss, which is then turned into a gain when i sell the looted ice harvesters.
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Firestarterr Edited by: Firestarterr on 30/11/2005 22:57:18 Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? Not so clever huh? I will chance to say that the BS were fully insured. And if they built the BS's themselves, I would guess less than 10M lost per suicide attack.
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Natas Liah A battleship fitted with smartbombs, 65m, 25m back on insurance payout, my losses, 35m. several barges going down to 1 battleship, 7-8m barge cost, plus another 7-8m for ice harvs per barge, total losses 16m lost per barge, 5 or more barges lost at a time, almost 100m damage inflicted for my 35m loss, which is then turned into a gain when i sell the looted ice harvesters. In that case, I completely applaud the attacks, and please continue! --------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:06:00 - [12] We looted 17 ice harvesters overall, they make up for small losses.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:07:00 - [13] Edited by: Natas Liah on 30/11/2005 23:07:04 Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Natas Liah A battleship fitted with smartbombs, 65m, 25m back on insurance payout, my losses, 35m. several barges going down to 1 battleship, 7-8m barge cost, plus another 7-8m for ice harvs per barge, total losses 16m lost per barge, 5 or more barges lost at a time, almost 100m damage inflicted for my 35m loss, which is then turned into a gain when i sell the looted ice harvesters. In that case, I completely applaud the attacks, and please continue! Lets not forget its not just the isk that they've lost, some farmer somewhere has to setup all those mining characters and macroers all over again. Whilst coping with loss mining time.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:10:00 - [14] With names like that, real newbies, not likely. I had an alt of mine kick off a little Kestrel op in the ice belts of Jita too last night. Only participated in an Iteron V kill due to a bugged aggro timer, but the locals clocked up two Retriever barges. After that, they warped to the safety of a gate and just sat there. No noob alt recycling, these were real alt characters with plenty sec status to lose. And like the guy said, casulaties of war. You make up a name from a random string, sit in a high sec belt and ignore attempts at convo, you could end up paying the price. It's hip-hop justice, not pretty, but in the current vacuum, it's all we've got. And I'm sure the real newbies would express nothing but gratitude, seeing that something is being done.
patteSatan	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:10:00 - [15] Too much ISK/real money involved??? We have them in Jarizza and surroundings too, we steal there ore, and bump them all the way to nearest station... miners in same ships, same date born, and when bumped, all warped to nearest moon, and returned at the same spot.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:12:00 - [16] Do you know the locations of large groups of macrominers? Give me the system name and perhaps they will be getting a visit.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:15:00 - [17] Urlen had 5 Omens and a Maller macro mining last night, with an obscenely-named can. Names were agree1 - agree8. Characters only 22 days old, so only base resistances. No decent loot to sell though, so you'd be making a loss.
Teri Ipeh	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 30/11/2005 23:03:38 Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Um...yes, I really admire your effort, but I'm going to have to agree with Firestarterr here. A battleship fitted with smartbombs, 65m, 25m back on insurance payout, my losses, 35m. several barges going down to 1 battleship, 7-8m barge cost, plus another 7-8m for ice harvs per barge, total losses 16m lost per barge, 5 or more barges lost at a time, almost 100m damage inflicted for my 35m loss, which is then turned into a gain when i sell the looted ice harvesters. Although I applaud your efforts, you do realise that their losses are nothing compared to what a macro-mining team like that rakes in every week? A 100m loss to multi-macroers is probably less than 0.5% of their weekly income if you take a look at just how much farmed isk is for sale. Good job though Maybe you could petition your loss and maybe, just maybe some sympathetic overworked GM who's just sick of the sight of macro petions will take pity and remimburse you Don't hold your breath though!
SghnDubh	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Natas Liah Today was a bad day for the macrominer business, for they suffered great losses in the high security belts of empire space, battleships loaded with smartbombs attacked them at multiple locations, all barges, indys and pods were destroyed. Yay that you took matters into your own hands instead of whining to the Devs/GMs like soooo many others. Solve an in-game problem in-game. Just be careful--some players may not be able to read English and/or not be able to reply in English. Perhaps a "shot across the bow" is in order? Otherwise, I applaud your initiative. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger... Fight Smart: www.BattleClinic.com
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Teri Ipeh Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 30/11/2005 23:03:38 Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Um...yes, I really admire your effort, but I'm going to have to agree with Firestarterr here. A battleship fitted with smartbombs, 65m, 25m back on insurance payout, my losses, 35m. several barges going down to 1 battleship, 7-8m barge cost, plus another 7-8m for ice harvs per barge, total losses 16m lost per barge, 5 or more barges lost at a time, almost 100m damage inflicted for my 35m loss, which is then turned into a gain when i sell the looted ice harvesters. Although I applaud your efforts, you do realise that their losses are nothing compared to what a macro-mining team like that rakes in every week? A 100m loss to multi-macroers is probably less than 0.5% of their weekly income if you take a look at just how much farmed isk is for sale. Good job though Maybe you could petition your loss and maybe, just maybe some sympathetic overworked GM who's just sick of the sight of macro petions will take pity and remimburse you Don't hold your breath though! If you calculate how much isk that group could make per day mining the way they were, 23/7, you will see its quite a substantial hit to them.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:27:00 - [21] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 30/11/2005 23:27:04 Originally by: Natas Liah If you calculate how much isk that group could make per day mining the way they were, 23/7, you will see its quite a substantial hit to them. It's true. Last night, for the price of two dozen Kestrels, the entire ice miner fleet evacuated Jita. That's as good as it gets, in terms of profit-loss ratio.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:37:00 - [22] Edited by: Natas Liah on 30/11/2005 23:37:42 Dont forget, they've not done much mining all day due to being dead and having to keep moving across empire to new ice belts. Barges are slow, especially when just 1 or 2 people is trying to control like 20 of them or more.
Kaeljen Dae	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:39:00 - [23] Is there a way of contributing? I definitely would like to. I currently can't access EVE (graphics card can badly display 2d due to some heat issues ... ) but as soon as I can I would like to give you my support. We could call it "tickets" for "watching the show" ;) - That is I'll pay for watching them being blown up. Just tell me where/when. By the way: Don't forget that everytime you blow them up this does not only cost them money causing a setback but they _also_ aren't mining therefore they aren't generating any ISK to sell on e-bay; which is what our main goal is ! ^^ /Kael
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Firestarterr Edited by: Firestarterr on 30/11/2005 22:57:18 Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? Not so clever huh? What he said, if anything, you should be punished for taking policy enforcement into your own hands rather than PETITIONING like a good little CCP minion.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:56:00 - [25] So instead of using cheap suicide frigates and ganking each barge or indy with concentrated fire, you got right up next to a bunch and suicided some really expensive battleships to take them out. Bad plan :/.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.11.30 23:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Firestarterr Edited by: Firestarterr on 30/11/2005 22:57:18 Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? Not so clever huh? Petitions never get anywhere because theres always at least 1 guy semi afk watching over the scripting accounts so that ccp cant touch them. Now why should i be punished again, for taking policy into my hands? I dont know what your talking about, all we are doing is blowing them to pieces at a cost, which is all part of eves mechanics. What he said, if anything, you should be punished for taking policy enforcement into your own hands rather than PETITIONING like a good little CCP minion.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:00:00 - [27] Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 00:00:27 Originally by: Nyphur So instead of using cheap suicide frigates and ganking each barge or indy with concentrated fire, you got right up next to a bunch and suicided some really expensive battleships to take them out. Bad plan :/. "Really expensive" battleships? No expensive battleships were used, only cheap ones, overall, we gained more isk than we lost. Good plan :)
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Natas Liah "Really expensive" battleships? No expensive battleships were used, only cheap ones, overall, we gained more isk than we lost. Good plan :) If you got more than you lost, good plan :D. But seriously, did the battleships hold up long enough against concord to make it worthwhile? I would have thought frigates would be the weapon of choice.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:09:00 - [29] Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 00:09:07 All barges, indys and pods were destroyed before concord did there thing.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:19:00 - [30] It's easy in principle - Armageddon with 8 large smartbombs gives 2000 hp damage every 8 seconds with the Energy Pulse skill at L4. Explosive damage 4tw. And of course 1600mm steel plates/hardners on lows. CONCORD can't target-jam smartbombs because they do not need a lock, and all you need is 8 seconds to do the job - plenty. This is actually a more efficient method than Kestrels for a large concentrated group of macros, because Kestrels can only engage a single target, while there is no upper limit on the number of targets a smartbomb can destroy, provided all are within effect radius. And provided you don't recycle alts, it is legal, because you do pay the price - game mechanics dictate that you always lose your ship for this, and you always do. CONCORD is there for a reason.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:23:00 - [31] Sounds good to me! If you're willing to take the sec hit, it sounds like hilarious fun :D
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:25:00 - [32] Sadly, I'm not. I'm still at -1.7 since summer (an improvement from -1.9), and going down to around -6 is a sacrifice too far.
Mr Floppyknickers	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:42:00 - [33] Edited by: Mr Floppyknickers on 01/12/2005 00:44:33 Out of curiousity I took a look on ebay for eve-related items. Specifically I was looking for out of game things, posters or models and the like in case someone was selling something nifty from FF. What astonished me was the massive amount of isk sales listed. Additionally, people were selling everything from faction loot to HAC's, one auction even boasted about selling a "macro guide" so you to can macro. When is CCP going to stat banning accounts that engage in these activities? That's not to say CCP can even decide as a company how it wishes to percieve this problem. The company's policies seem to make the practice ok as CCP's own actions and statments seem to encourage this behavior. One has to wonder how long it will be before there is a section of the website where you can buy in game items for RL cash that is run by CCP. CCP has already stated the serenity server will allow this as it is part of the gaming culture of the region, so we can only hope macro isk farmers will move to that server since it's more acceptable there. Thankfully, the efforts of some members of the EVE TQ community will help make that choice very easy. Unfortunately, even if all the macroer's fade to the serenity server, the isk selling and item selling problems will still exist because it would be foolish to believe for a moment that only macroer's are responsible. Other players have to be selling isk as well, and items, and until CCP takes a firm stand one way or the other the EVE community is the going to continue to war with itself. CCP need to take a firm and clear stand in regards to this issue one way or the other so the TQ community can know the appropriate behavior to take. Otherwise you will continue to have people fighting a battle against something that may or may not be against the rules and all that means is more work for GM's when there should be a simple an clear cut "yay" or "nay" on the issue.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:42:00 - [34] well the find them petition them and steal their jet can ore also works wonders - it lowers their output and as long as peititoning u are quite ok to play the ore theif role that is a valid ingame element. Barring that launch youre own jetcan pull all the ore out of theirs into youres and blow it up (youre one) that way they loose the ore and u blow the can (of course after RMR simply leave it in youre can) when they take it back blow em skyhigh
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.01 00:57:00 - [35] Just kill them... Victim: [removed] Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Pator Tech School Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Shabura System Security Level: 0.7 Involved parties: Name: Pandemic Thinking Security Status: -0.3 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.01 01:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Sadly, I'm not. I'm still at -1.7 since summer (an improvement from -1.9), and going down to around -6 is a sacrifice too far. Yes that's the problem. I'd punish myself more than the macro miners. After some fun I'd be broke and couldn't enter hi-sec for some time, but the macro miner just buys a new retriever and goes on. Anyway, congrats to the people, who didn't care and blew them off. ___________ 'Wanna-not-be forum warrior. <3'
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.12.01 01:41:00 - [37] There was a thread recently which put forth this idea that a group of players should form a "vigilante" squad to take out people who they thought were griefers or what not. Most sensible people see that ANY type of scheme that pretends to establish a "player police" is doomed to failure and abuse. I agree wholeheartedly with the conclusions of the majority of the players responding to that thread and who condemned such "vigilantism." Yet, over here at this thread, some are applauding these vigilantes. I think vigilantes are just as much a threat to Eve as macroers. Personally, I revolt against the idea that a "select group" of players can somehow "know what's best for Eve or for me." I suggest these vigilantes tread VERY carefully. I hear iskies can be used to hire merc corps as well as be sold on teh ebil ebay.
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.01 02:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Cummilla There was a thread recently which put forth this idea that a group of players should form a "vigilante" squad to take out people who they thought were griefers or what not. Most sensible people see that ANY type of scheme that pretends to establish a "player police" is doomed to failure and abuse. I agree wholeheartedly with the conclusions of the majority of the players responding to that thread and who condemned such "vigilantism." Yet, over here at this thread, some are applauding these vigilantes. I think vigilantes are just as much a threat to Eve as macroers. Personally, I revolt against the idea that a "select group" of players can somehow "know what's best for Eve or for me." I suggest these vigilantes tread VERY carefully. I hear iskies can be used to hire merc corps as well as be sold on teh ebil ebay. It's a guy thing I guess. You've got to come see Tombstone Arizona someday A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Tweedle Dum	Posted - 2005.12.01 03:34:00 - [39] Cough Empire Quality Control Cough Corp
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.01 03:57:00 - [40] Sterling work, well done. If there was a way I could pay to watch a big smartbombing crew go up against the macroers, I would. So Netas, I'll pay you a couple of million for ringside seats at the next display, if it's near me when I'm playing. (very likely). Publicise the next slaughter, then when you've got a crowd gathered to watch you, provide the entertainment. Then pass around the hat. I can tell you, if I saw a decent macro-slaying I'd gladly cough up a couple of million towards your costs on the spot. And I'm just one player. Get lots of people to watch and you won't lose any ISK at all! You could even have a nice little earner on your hands! Super Sunday.... exclusive rights....$$$...Destruction derby tonite!!!! So - time and place for the next hit, I'll pay you a couple of mill to watch the carnage. Anyone else interested? LIVE macroer destruction! Who wouldn't pay to watch that!
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.01 08:29:00 - [41] There are a lot more people that play game that are not macro miners than there are macro miners....so a small loss by a load of macro hunters is a big loss to macro miners.
bustergonads	Posted - 2005.12.01 10:20:00 - [42] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Urlen had 5 Omens and a Maller macro mining last night, with an obscenely-named can. Names were agree1 - agree8. Characters only 22 days old, so only base resistances. No decent loot to sell though, so you'd be making a loss. ive petitioned the controller of these after getting an abusive eve-mail from him he also controls chars called sefey1-safey8 and wesder1-wesder8 and another group with random names he's usuallaround kisogo-maurasi-itamo area when below 0.8 he uses a keesie to keep the rats off, when you start nicking his ore he usually starts putting abusive names on his cans refering to your mother i believe someone has sent a screeny into ccp doubt any action will be taken tho
KHEN	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:08:00 - [43] Natas Liah, you deserve the respect from all the community. Players like you should be able to work with Concord against macrominers. Would it be possible to set missions issued by Concord against macro miners when a petition is filled or when something like a serverside surveillance bot points macromining ? I guess not but it would have been soooo fun !
Lacedaemon	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:47:00 - [44] Well done Natas. Here's a thought for CCP and GM's, if a macrominer has been petitioned after say 10 times, and the GM's deem this to be the case, then flag that macrominer as attackable without Concord retribution, like say an NPC rat. This idea does have some merit and would allow us to do what Natas has done without reprisals.
Jaik Jermaine	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers Edited by: Mr Floppyknickers on 01/12/2005 00:44:33 CCP has already stated the serenity server will allow this as it is part of the gaming culture of the region, so we can only hope macro isk farmers will move to that server since it's more acceptable there. Thankfully, the efforts of some members of the EVE TQ community will help make that choice very easy. serenity wont make a lick of difference, farmers are willing to work for less then a dollar an hour just to feed their families. now if people are willing to work for les then a dollar an hour, are these same people going to be able to afford to buy isk? i dont think so, no matter what, this is the server where all the money is too be made. you dont goto the poorest part of your town and try to sell expensive luxury items do you?
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:51:00 - [46] If the gms deem them as macroers they should be banned. The problem in this case is the farmers make it hard for the gms to catch them, thats why players should be enforce the law using guns (or preferably smartbombs)
Biltic Creen	Posted - 2005.12.01 11:57:00 - [47] If you want to bomb some more, check out Lustrevik. There are loads of macroers in the icebelt there.
Gray Carmicheal	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:14:00 - [48] Originally by: Firestarterr Edited by: Firestarterr on 30/11/2005 22:57:18 Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? Not so clever huh? Trials can't train mining barges in the time it takes to complete the trial.
Jared VonBargen	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:16:00 - [49] hey, if you want more, message me. i have a list in my notepad ingame of 36 miners all working in the same system in groups of 6, from 2-4 groups online per day....
Corb	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:24:00 - [50] Grats on the kills really. Now we have 4000 more to deal with.
Ankanos	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:31:00 - [51] gratz -job well done. check out Erenta. convo/mail me ingame for names -ank ---
PORTER BRISBONE	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:41:00 - [52] I suspect 4000-5000 paying subs are macrominers.
Flyyn	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:47:00 - [53] Good job on the Macrominer attacks...did any survive? And if they turned out not to be macrominers...I got one word for you "OOOPS"
FatSlug	Posted - 2005.12.01 12:57:00 - [54] It sounds to me like CCP should do a "...your mission should you choose to accept it is..." and select players (those with proven PVP skills) to become, briefly, mercenaries within the game. Give them whatever equipment is needed, a list of known macro-ers and their position, and turn off Concord attacks when they engage these known macro-ers. If successful, give them an ISK reward and, if the mercs activities are discovered, CCP just simply denies all knowledge ! That way, CCP controls the hit list (to avoid genuine account casualties), and some people can have fun to boot! "Miners are just shafting the universe..."
Kazhoth	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:00:00 - [55] Nice Work
Sykosys	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:51:00 - [56] I too have seen this type of behaiviour, But some of it isn't macroers, they seem like 1 guy running 10-15 accounts. I was doing the bump to one of these haulers in Illuin. I bumped 14 seperate ships in diffrent belts and the same unable to speak proper english (Who claims hes chinese) always asked why and to stop, even called me a PK. These guys bring nothing to eve. And with the increase in ebay isk for sale (Have you actually gone on ebay and typed isk in the search, goodness)and prices for low end ore have gone down and these guys are the reason. They keep lowering their sell prices and thus others to compete need to sell lower and thus is the decline in isk prices for minerals. Keep harrasing these guys. Steal all their ore. Make high sec mining for these groups of obvious farmers hell. After all Bumping and stealing their ore is all within the game limitations. and there is nothing wrong with it other than moralityt issues. And well that only can carry so far These guys need to LEAVE eve. Of course is only my opinion. SYKOSYS _______________________ "She'll fly apart sir," "FLY HER APART THEN!!!"
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.01 13:58:00 - [57] Just kill them... A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Larshus Magrus	Posted - 2005.12.01 14:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Firestarterr Edited by: Firestarterr on 30/11/2005 22:57:18 Ok so you got several hundred mill BS's concordokken'd just to kill a few suspected macrominers - who will prolly replace thier barge tommorow. and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? Not so clever huh? You sir, are a fool. Look at the names. Re-read his post. These people have consistantly been stripmining all day long is above said systems with no replys from directs. Bravo on blowing them sky high.
Corb	Posted - 2005.12.01 15:01:00 - [59] TAKE A STAND PILOTS Starting tonight I will outfit my Raven with SB's, and find me a nice group of IceMiners. Since I'm a secondary account it won't be much of a loss. When my status gets to bad I will just create another account with the same purpose in mind. We can no longer wait for CCP to do anything about this.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 15:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Corb TAKE A STAND PILOTS Starting tonight I will outfit my Raven with SB's, and find me a nice group of IceMiners. Since I'm a secondary account it won't be much of a loss. When my status gets to bad I will just create another account with the same purpose in mind. We can no longer wait for CCP to do anything about this. once you hit low sec status you can always get a diffrent char to come in with the battleship, eject next to the macrominers, jump in it with your low sec status bomber and set of the smartbombs. best to use a 60 mill bs to as its less isk wasted.
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.01 15:09:00 - [61] I'll be on it tonight as well muwuhahaha kill the barges :)
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 15:12:00 - [62] Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 15:12:12 To follow up to my last post, get as many cloning stations as you can on your clone list near or at the locations of where the macroers mine, all the core systems around empire is a good idea, that way you can clone jump the low sec status char to the place of bombing.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 20:25:00 - [63] RIP (pieces) wert yu live dog biue dog cgfdsd lkij cf kjmn bv zawesx red ade The ice belts of jita were not safe tonight
Blind Watchmaker	Posted - 2005.12.01 21:31:00 - [64] Heheh great stuff. Just a shame it has to come to this.
Dezzereth	Posted - 2005.12.01 21:49:00 - [65] I applaud you Natas (and supporters). A job well done. For the whiners: If several attempts at contacting the miners doesn't work (including bumping them) then there is something fishy - and players who intervene in this case by getting rid of said macroers can only be thanked for their effort. CCP can ban then at most, which we know can be circumvented. But if the community holds together against macroers, by making their life as miserable as possible, then a clear message can be sent to such people - also in a lot more effective way than CCP could. So, keep up the good work. -- TOSGI Homepage --
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 21:51:00 - [66] I'm on my way to the next group of macroers now, however, trigger happy interceptor flying players seem to enjoy killing me and im finding it impossible drifting to the next group in my pod.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:00:00 - [67] Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 21:59:43 Everyone can thank Morgena of the Seraphin Technologies corp for stopping me from getting to a large group of macrominers, he/she thinks its fun to camp me and prevent my pod from reaching the target system. Even after being told exactly what it is im trying to do.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:01:00 - [68] Originally by: Firestarterr and did you ever considered the fact you may have popped a few innocent noobs and genunine trial players in the process? ------------------------------------ Quote: 1 Billion isk currently sells on ebay for about $225 90 day GTC $38.95 Currently selling for 300mill Therefore 1Bill isk costs you $129.50.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers Additionally, people were selling everything from faction loot to *HAC's, one auction even boasted about selling a "macro guide" so you to can macro. I hope to god CCP checks in on T2 BPO owners who do alot of 'gift giving'. Could you imagine if one of the T2 cap charger BPO owners was selling them for a couple dollars per cap charger on ebay? He'd be making hundreds per day. ------------------------------------ Quote:* 1 Billion isk currently sells on ebay for about $225 90 day GTC $38.95 Currently selling for 300mill Therefore 1Bill isk costs you $129.50.
CptDelta	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:09:00 - [70] Edited by: CptDelta on 01/12/2005 22:14:39 2005.12.01 22:02:00 feel free to do what u want,.. plz send me the link then, i need something to laught about -------------------- 2005.12.01 22:00:00 dont worry your going to find your name and corp on the forums posted as the person/corp who tried to help the macroers. -------------------- 2005.12.01 21:58:00 just report them, CCP will hurt them more then u -------------------- 2005.12.01 21:49:00 you stopped me from getting to my destinated ice field where im going to smartbomb a load of chinese ebaying macrominers, i hope you feel good about it. Quote: I hope to god CCP checks in on T2 BPO owners who do alot of 'gift giving'. Could you imagine if one of the T2 cap charger BPO owners was selling them for a couple dollars per cap charger on ebay? He'd be making hundreds per day. i agree CCP realy should care about anything whats mixing ISK and reallife Money... isnt it possible that CCP just buy all the stuff on ebay and annul the trade because of dealing with stolen goods?
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:16:00 - [71] It's a shame my alliance mates are unreasonable sometimes, some even wanted to shoot NBSI at their CONCORD-ganking protest in Rens. We're not all that clueless.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:38:00 - [72] Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 22:43:41 Another 5 medium barges plus an indy have been destroyed. These are ones who have been spotted working with the original 15 characters on the first post. They fled from the central hub systems around 20 jumps out to Gelhan where they thought they would be able to macromine in peace, they were wrong. The other group of 6 of them (there was 12 overall) is still here, in hiding, they warped out a while after seeing the other group explode. RIP Yrngliang HONG seg YYNY OOO TIANG Pingpin ****uka Rest in pieces!
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:46:00 - [73] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 01/12/2005 22:46:13 Splendid work. Got another killmail myself earlier, and petitioned my perma-broken aggro timer.
Maestro Ulv	Posted - 2005.12.01 22:48:00 - [74] Great work. As to the guy who asked if he could help, sure, donate a little money to them. I am. If it helps cover the costs of getting rid of a problem CCP ignore then im all for it.
Darkenral	Posted - 2005.12.01 23:13:00 - [75] AWESOME AWESOME WORK ;)))))) Dark
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2005.12.01 23:27:00 - [76] LOL, well done. I applaud this community service, thank you.
Macel	Posted - 2005.12.02 00:18:00 - [77] I don't mean this in any racially derogatory sort of way, but I find it interesting that most of those macrominer names are clearly chinese... I bet the chinese server, when its introduced (and hopefully ccp will then cut off chinese ip addresses from access to the euro servers), will cut down a lot on macro mining.
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.12.02 00:50:00 - [78] Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 21:59:43 Everyone can thank Morgena of the Seraphin Technologies corp for stopping me from getting to a large group of macrominers, he/she thinks its fun to camp me and prevent my pod from reaching the target system. Even after being told exactly what it is im trying to do. I'd like to thank her for stopping an out of control, self appointed, vigilante
Blitz Hacker	Posted - 2005.12.02 00:51:00 - [79] Originally by: Macel I don't mean this in any racially derogatory sort of way, but I find it interesting that most of those macrominer names are clearly chinese... I bet the chinese server, when its introduced (and hopefully ccp will then cut off chinese ip addresses from access to the euro servers), will cut down a lot on macro mining. Sadly I've found many of these happening in my experiences aswell :( Most of the time I've talked in local saying 'heya' Reply ?? Said How you guyz doing? Reply ?? <spammed chat> immideatly get ?? about x8 (one per line I typed) one actually replied speaking broken english from china. Sad stereotype but the shoe fits <shrugs> -Blitz-
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.02 01:09:00 - [80] Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 21:59:43 Everyone can thank Morgena of the Seraphin Technologies corp for stopping me from getting to a large group of macrominers, he/she thinks its fun to camp me and prevent my pod from reaching the target system. Even after being told exactly what it is im trying to do. I'd like to thank her for stopping an out of control, self appointed, vigilante You got a better idea? A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2005.12.02 01:17:00 - [81] its not as if macro miners work for their isk like the rest of the community who have to manually fly 1-2 account sin npc hunting or mining or partnering up with other players so kill the **** out of them __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.02 01:34:00 - [82] Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 21:59:43 Everyone can thank Morgena of the Seraphin Technologies corp for stopping me from getting to a large group of macrominers, he/she thinks its fun to camp me and prevent my pod from reaching the target system. Even after being told exactly what it is im trying to do. Borderline harrasment if you ask me. You that is, insighting a witch hunt against another player in the forum. Also the gm's told the person that pulled the stunt with swaping ships to cease his activity, id bare that in mind. Personaly you dont fool me, im not of a weak mind. ----------- When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
Lygos	Posted - 2005.12.02 01:36:00 - [83] Edited by: Lygos on 02/12/2005 01:44:06 I'm glad that you're using battleships as that is also a spur to the mineral economy. What is the best battleship here? Geddon, or will a Tempest let you get off a few more rounds with a cheap tank? Personally, I wouldn't bother with the pods. It's not likely that the clone is worth much and it saves your sec for another round. ******** Is there a penalty for using shield tranfer array on an npc engaging another player? ******** Targetting Sig Variance -- "Everything I love is combustible."
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.12.02 01:45:00 - [84] Originally by: Pandemic Thinking Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 21:59:43 Everyone can thank Morgena of the Seraphin Technologies corp for stopping me from getting to a large group of macrominers, he/she thinks its fun to camp me and prevent my pod from reaching the target system. Even after being told exactly what it is im trying to do. I'd like to thank her for stopping an out of control, self appointed, vigilante You got a better idea? I have no love affair with macro-ers. Although to be honest I think the vigilante in question has more than a fair amount of anti-ebay psychosis that they need to deal with so that they can weigh the macroer issue a little more objectively. Theoretically, I have no problem with suicide attacks which nominally engage the execution of their act within normal boundaries of how any typical pvp engagement would go. IE, warpin, lock target, tackle target, activate weapons, repair damage, kill said target, etc. But the key here is that this vigilante weazels in close to the target and doesn't have to lock anything..ever. They don't have to web, scramble, etc. They do not have to prioritze targets for locking and killing, nor to they have to have backup there to help them execute these macroers that they've found guilty and passed sentence upon. All they do is exploit an AE weapon that quite honestly wasn't intended to be used in empire in that fashion. And "justifying" their exploit in that regard makes you no better than the macroers that you kill when you have to stoop to their level. Basically we are all supposed to empathize with this vigilante because "it would be too hard" for him to actually organize suicide kestrel\caracal squads to perform these same tasks. Or it might actually happen that through the act of tackling a devious macroer a kessie or caracal might be lost to concordokken before it would be able to inflict damage\kills itself. Smartbombs make the would-be vigilante TOO POWERFUL of a self appointed "sherrif." And until someone explains to me why those with inordinate\abnormally large and unhealthy amounts of playtime is any different of an "inappropriate RL influence" on Eve as ebay and RL cash is, then you will find me being VERY skeptical about how powerful vigilante weapons can be.
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.02 02:06:00 - [85] Sweet irony, that the macroers forced down the price of minerals such that it has now become economically worthwhile to suicide them. Now the tables have turned. It is possible to design game mechanics to minimise eBayer's influence, their presence is not so "inevitable" as is constantly argued.
Lo3d3R	Posted - 2005.12.02 02:22:00 - [86] i wish i could contribute, but concor will not let me in, maybe i should make an alt ? (how long do i need to train it you guys think )
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.02 04:38:00 - [87] Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Pandemic Thinking Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 21:59:43 Everyone can thank Morgena of the Seraphin Technologies corp for stopping me from getting to a large group of macrominers, he/she thinks its fun to camp me and prevent my pod from reaching the target system. Even after being told exactly what it is im trying to do. I'd like to thank her for stopping an out of control, self appointed, vigilante You got a better idea? I have no love affair with macro-ers. Although to be honest I think the vigilante in question has more than a fair amount of anti-ebay psychosis that they need to deal with so that they can weigh the macroer issue a little more objectively. Theoretically, I have no problem with suicide attacks which nominally engage the execution of their act within normal boundaries of how any typical pvp engagement would go. IE, warpin, lock target, tackle target, activate weapons, repair damage, kill said target, etc. But the key here is that this vigilante weazels in close to the target and doesn't have to lock anything..ever. They don't have to web, scramble, etc. They do not have to prioritze targets for locking and killing, nor to they have to have backup there to help them execute these macroers that they've found guilty and passed sentence upon. All they do is exploit an AE weapon that quite honestly wasn't intended to be used in empire in that fashion. And "justifying" their exploit in that regard makes you no better than the macroers that you kill when you have to stoop to their level. Basically we are all supposed to empathize with this vigilante because "it would be too hard" for him to actually organize suicide kestrel\caracal squads to perform these same tasks. Or it might actually happen that through the act of tackling a devious macroer a kessie or caracal might be lost to concordokken before it would be able to inflict damage\kills itself. Smartbombs make the would-be vigilante TOO POWERFUL of a self appointed "sherrif." And until someone explains to me why those with inordinate\abnormally large and unhealthy amounts of playtime is any different of an "inappropriate RL influence" on Eve as ebay and RL cash is, then you will find me being VERY skeptical about how powerful vigilante weapons can be. It would seem to me that your argument is that "they are being too effective". Seems to me that if they are willing to sacrife something as large as a BS and take the security hit, all of which is within game mechanics, then it is far dink'um. Other than that... your argument is pretty silly. And you still have not come up with an alternate response to Macro-Mining... A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Tarack	Posted - 2005.12.02 05:14:00 - [88] Petitions actually work sometimes. I was fortunate enough to happen upon 6 groups of 8 each macroing in Maurasi. I also had a front row seat to them going bye bye. ALL HAIL GM Fate!!! Master of macro PWNAGE!! Now to continue on my quest .... WTS: 1 Ex-wife, slightly used. Fully equiped, includes, My house, my car, my dog and my new ex girlfriend.................
Bongo Smith	Posted - 2005.12.02 05:39:00 - [89] These guys have been mining pretty much non-stop for more than a week in Lustrevik. Now they have started to keep some pauses, probably during "prime time", to avoid some of the attacks they've suffered. But they're still there, this picture was taken 10 minutes ago. So if you happen to be traveling that-away... Bongo
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.02 09:03:00 - [90] The boys are hungry for a kill and they might take well to a trip to Lustrevik. Seriously, Reservoir Dogs has grown 300 percent in just one week after we decided to incorporate and go after the macro's. Now the new members want to blood themselves and I ran out of targets in our area. If I don't they might go after me (shiver) A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Jess Tamblyn	Posted - 2005.12.02 10:28:00 - [91] Damn good job guys!!
Snake Jankins	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:54:00 - [92] Originally by: Cummilla And until someone explains to me why those with inordinate\abnormally large and unhealthy amounts of playtime is any different of an "inappropriate RL influence" on Eve as ebay and RL cash is, then you will find me being VERY skeptical about how powerful vigilante weapons can be. Sorry, these ISK farmers don't play the game, they abuse the game for earning money and don't even care about the game. I see no reason, why I should feel for someone who's farming isk for ebay. Surely not because he's farming in hi-sec and hiding behind a nub corp and concorde. They wouldn't be harassed, if they played the game as what it is, a space mmorpg. But they don't care, so why should I care, if they get smart bombed ? I care about people, who play the game as it is meant to be played, and isk farming is not such a way. ___________ 'Wanna-not-be forum warrior. <3'
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:55:00 - [93] this has been the only topic of late - lets find other discussions and including this one
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.02 11:58:00 - [94] ok guys some more kador region - syming18-23 - birdie20, demonised, darkamarrfighter, find these guys and any other associated types floating around feel free to hit em. They were in player corp called Royal horse guard we war dec'd blew up about 150m ISK worth of ships and modules the controller pulled em all back to starter corps so now we can only petition and ore take. But feel free to suicide attack
Osric Bloodletter	Posted - 2005.12.02 13:41:00 - [95] Actually, simply kill the hauler with a suicide ship. Then use a hauler of your own to constantly empty the can to pay back your losses. :) When you've earned enough to buy more suicide ships, kill off the miners and sell the loot.
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:50:00 - [96] Originally by: Pandemic Thinking Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Pandemic Thinking Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Natas Liah Edited by: Natas Liah on 01/12/2005 21:59:43 Everyone can thank Morgena of the Seraphin Technologies corp for stopping me from getting to a large group of macrominers, he/she thinks its fun to camp me and prevent my pod from reaching the target system. Even after being told exactly what it is im trying to do. I'd like to thank her for stopping an out of control, self appointed, vigilante You got a better idea? I have no love affair with macro-ers. Although to be honest I think the vigilante in question has more than a fair amount of anti-ebay psychosis that they need to deal with so that they can weigh the macroer issue a little more objectively. Theoretically, I have no problem with suicide attacks which nominally engage the execution of their act within normal boundaries of how any typical pvp engagement would go. IE, warpin, lock target, tackle target, activate weapons, repair damage, kill said target, etc. But the key here is that this vigilante weazels in close to the target and doesn't have to lock anything..ever. They don't have to web, scramble, etc. They do not have to prioritze targets for locking and killing, nor to they have to have backup there to help them execute these macroers that they've found guilty and passed sentence upon. All they do is exploit an AE weapon that quite honestly wasn't intended to be used in empire in that fashion. And "justifying" their exploit in that regard makes you no better than the macroers that you kill when you have to stoop to their level. Basically we are all supposed to empathize with this vigilante because "it would be too hard" for him to actually organize suicide kestrel\caracal squads to perform these same tasks. Or it might actually happen that through the act of tackling a devious macroer a kessie or caracal might be lost to concordokken before it would be able to inflict damage\kills itself. Smartbombs make the would-be vigilante TOO POWERFUL of a self appointed "sherrif." And until someone explains to me why those with inordinate\abnormally large and unhealthy amounts of playtime is any different of an "inappropriate RL influence" on Eve as ebay and RL cash is, then you will find me being VERY skeptical about how powerful vigilante weapons can be. It would seem to me that your argument is that "they are being too effective". Seems to me that if they are willing to sacrife something as large as a BS and take the security hit, all of which is within game mechanics, then it is far dink'um. Other than that... your argument is pretty silly. And you still have not come up with an alternate response to Macro-Mining... Actually the best method is the one that requires less intervention and doesn't rely actively on players to work. One poster, who pointed to rock bottom common mineral prices, understands what I mean in this regard. Plus you didn't address my point in regards to the extreme antiebay animus on the part of the OP and the fact that such a perspective is highly suspect in view of the fact that there are all sorts of IRL inputs(not all of which the OP gives a damn about) into this game that impact the "level playing field" you so dearly value. It just comes off reeking of "get rid of someone elses advantage whilst leaving mine alone."
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.12.02 19:54:00 - [97] Originally by: Osric Bloodletter Actually, simply kill the hauler with a suicide ship. Then use a hauler of your own to constantly empty the can to pay back your losses. :) When you've earned enough to buy more suicide ships, kill off the miners and sell the loot. This seems sensible. Same with sonofolio's idea of wardeccing. The point is that the OP's approach of smartbombing is overboard and is as evasive of the spirit of game mechanics as the macroers are.
Bongo Smith	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:35:00 - [98] Originally by: Cummilla so dearly value. It just comes off reeking of "get rid of someone elses advantage whilst leaving mine alone." You do realise it would be less of an effort and more profitable if we all simply started macroing for ISK, too, instead of fighting this thing? It's a thought that has crossed my mind more and more as I watch the same typed-with-fist names sit in the same belts for days and days. You fail to address the fact that macroing and selling ISK on eBay is forbidden by the EULA. Yet both are rampant, and it appears CCP is not lifting a finger to do anything about it (well, they are vehemently CLAIMING to do a lot about it, yet I SEE nothing done about it). At some point I will decide that they have, through inactivity, changed the rule, and turn from a macro hunter to a macro miner. As will many others (I think many already have: The number of macroers has exploded). That day the game dies. The price of ISK has now dropped to ONE THIRD in dollars from what it was 4 months ago. That's either because they're not selling a lot (I doubt it), or because there are so many ISK farmers, with such a lucrative business, that they're competing with each other for the customers lining up.
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:36:00 - [99] Originally by: Cummilla Actually the best method is the one that requires less intervention and doesn't rely actively on players to work. One poster, who pointed to rock bottom common mineral prices, understands what I mean in this regard. Yes, when I posted that it got me thinking, can I "market PvP" them? Theoretically you could fill all buy orders in all stations in the systems where they operate, then place system buy order for 0.01 ISK. Perhaps even do it on a station by station basis, - follow the hauler to the station, fill buy order (NPC or player) & make a huge margin. Logistically though, well I won't even bother doing the maths for Jita. Might work elsewhere, but I'm assuming an awful lot - that macroers sell in the station they dock at, for a start - there may be a real person freightering it all where the price is good. Trade skills could help with setting the buy orders, but not with the filling of the existing orders. But then again, you only have to fill player orders once really, NPC order comes back daily, and are a fixed cost.... hmm this merits more thought. Originally by: Cummilla Plus you didn't address my point in regards to the extreme antiebay animus ..." Well yes, but trouble is, it's not an in-game advantage to the macroers, it just ends up an in-game advantage to those who can spend extra real money on the game, the people macroers sell ISK to. But let's not have this discussion again here. In the right cirumstances, a combination of market and suicide pvp could beat these guys (in the sense of increasing their costs) - when some of them went off to that distant system yesterday, I bet we could make it so they would have to either shift the minerals they mined to a good price or accept 0.01 isk. Hard to keep it up day after day though...
Bongo Smith	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:51:00 - [100] Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Osric Bloodletter Actually, simply kill the hauler with a suicide ship. Then use a hauler of your own to constantly empty the can to pay back your losses. :) When you've earned enough to buy more suicide ships, kill off the miners and sell the loot. This seems sensible. Same with sonofolio's idea of wardeccing. The point is that the OP's approach of smartbombing is overboard and is as evasive of the spirit of game mechanics as the macroers are. WTF? It's an out-of-game problem, why would you try and find some twisted "explainable in the game universe" solution to it? Something needs to be done, and trying to roleplay it out isn't the answer. What's your solution to Eve getting DOSsed (just an example, AFAIK Eve is not being DOSsed)? FOF missiles?
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.02 21:55:00 - [101] Originally by: Cummilla Plus you didn't address my point in regards to the extreme antiebay animus on the part of the OP and the fact that such a perspective is highly suspect in view of the fact that there are all sorts of IRL inputs(not all of which the OP gives a damn about) into this game that impact the "level playing field" you so dearly value. It just comes off reeking of "get rid of someone elses advantage whilst leaving mine alone." You really need to run that post by someone with an extra bit of puncuation. I assume that english is not your primary language, so I will avoid atacks in this vein. Why do they bother me? Simply put; they are not playing the game. (are you playing the game?) EVE is a Multiplayer universe, and it's enviornment is held is a rather fragile balance. In my home system, there was a number of belts that supported several corps, who mined and produced ships for the player base. In one week, a macro-miner came through and left nothing. Not a scrap of ore, and in turn, produced nothing, but isk that would appear on Ebay. Think of it in terms of aborginal cultures in the Amazon Rainforest. Agriculture based co-ops have slashed and burned large amounts of the rainforest, damaging the local native cultures and their ability to sustain a way of life. They now have to rely on outside assistance and their way of life is quickly disappearing. This is much the same way that Macro-miners and isk farmers gather up all the resources, and force the players to rely on purchases of isk to remain competitive in the EVE enviorment. He with the most cash, has the most isk, has the upper hand. The enviorment of EVE is no more self-contained and the player driven economy, and intergral part of EVE, is lost. This is why it is against the EULA. A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Tawny Merekitain	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:07:00 - [102] good job ----------------------------------------------- Current ship: Maller class Cruiser
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.02 22:13:00 - [103] Arrg, No! Don't discuss why it's right or wrong please, there's plenty of threads for that. Have a think about the solutions instead. A combination of suicide and taking away the market through careful manipulation might work, it might at least drive up their costs stupidly! I've got loads of cash and probably would make a profit eventually on any assets I bought in any system (except the main hubs.) So, like the smartbombers, I probably wouldn't lose much in market pvp. Anyone got any experience of what macroers generally do with what they have macroed? (Anonymity guaranteed..) Do they - sell rocks immediately in station, or - sell refined rocks (minerals) almost immediately in station, or - not sell anything in system they are actually mining in and they take it elsewhere for best price. I would guess the first because it requires less macro sophistication?
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.03 01:27:00 - [104] I went into a high sec system to pick up a skill. In the local chat were 89 players; the system only has three belts. I look at the names and it was dozens of random string names and noob corps. So I check the belts and there were noob macro-miner characters, five days old in Omens, mining away on what there was. EVE's economy is being trashed by this horsesht and CCP CAN'T do a think about it??? Or is it that CCP doesn't feel the need to do anything about it? A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink*
Skurlan	Posted - 2005.12.03 01:50:00 - [105] A better way is to bump the ships as close to each other as possible then you only need one ship to smart bomb them to oblivion, smaller loss
Taran Blake	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:04:00 - [106] What you need to do is to petition GM's for the return of lost security status.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:08:00 - [107] The same groups i first talked about are still mining even now, they do it almost non stop, i really feel sick when i think of what they are doing. Something terrible is coming for them... To be continued.
Clan MacGregor	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:12:00 - [108] We are kicking a player out of our corp that we found out was buying isk from a farmer. If only other corps would act in a similar manner.
Hellspawn666	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:22:00 - [109] I love macrominers
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:37:00 - [110] Edited by: Natas Liah on 03/12/2005 02:37:34 RIP puntttr feingss lluuuty kokoto minynt temery Shengm MD stuented Darker Man All names who have been spotted working with the other macroers that i destroyed. 8 medium barges and an indy were destroyed in a single attack, you would have thought they would have learned how to avoid smartbomb attacks like that by now. I suppose it must be to much hastle for them to split up though as that would make the macro difficult to run.
Natas Liah	Posted - 2005.12.03 02:49:00 - [111] Actually to add, you would of thought by now that if these were normal players, they would have gotten used to the fact that its always this same character suicide bombing them, the second they see me in local i would have thought they'd stop the mining, but nope, i sit in local for about 15 minutes before making the attack and they dont even respond. Even when i warp into the belt they continue to mine rather than run. Definetly macroers.
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.03 03:45:00 - [112] Went on the attack and destroyed a barge, he was out in a new barge before the criminal tag flag ended. It's not even worth the time it takes to refit a kessie for another attack. CCP is too busy counting the cash.. A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.03 15:32:00 - [113] How about make ice mining lasers 5-10 times the price :) that way when macro miners lose their lasers they lose out on a lot of isk. At the moment all they lose is insurance money and a few mill.
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.03 18:36:00 - [114] Hey, post where you're doing it please, I got paying customers queuing up to watch this. (Well, one person besides me, and he's not paying, but it's a start. No-one used to pay to watch football either in the beginning.)
Taihira	Posted - 2005.12.03 18:57:00 - [115] Macro ganking... the next big sport... placing bets on how many a competitor can take down in one session before concorde get 'em "roll up, roll up, place your bets" That should become part of the prime fiction
Corrd	Posted - 2005.12.03 20:03:00 - [116] Hey CCP, can I set up an ebay honeypot? Here's my pitch. CCP, provide me a free account and an infinite amount of isk, trit, pyerite, mex. You name it. Give it to me. I will then sell it on ebay and other auction sites for real money. After the purchase, I will provide you complete details of the purchaser for you to ban thereby removing what I sell from the EVE economy. I promise to use that infinite amount of isk, trit etc to sell on Ebay cheaper and at a range of common prices offered by the competition. By running a honeypot, I will cripple the business model of those who macro mine or farm for a profit by making the real life cash value of in-game items as close to zero whilst maintaining the in-game value of the items by its subsequent later removal by you, CCP. As you, CCP, have a complete and independent audit log of all in-game transactions made by the honeypot coupled with proofs of purchase will I provide to you, you will then have sufficient evidence to ban the purchaser (or dock from the character with a stern warning). My fee is whatever I make selling Eve-Online items on Ebay. It's win-win-win for the playing community, CCP and me. It's loss-loss for the sellers and buyers of eve in-game items on Ebay and other auction sites. Cheers
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.03 20:08:00 - [117] It's lose-lose because CCP just breached the Ebay ToS and so on. Won't work. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
slip66	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:09:00 - [118] Originally by: Taran Blake What you need to do is to petition GM's for the return of lost security status. now thats a good idea!
Corrd	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:15:00 - [119] Technically, it would be me doing the breaching and not CCP. I'd even repay the money to those who make a complaint to Ebay. But I would be providing the mark with what they purchased. A different entity (CCP) would be taking it away after investigating a player in breach of their EULA. CCP can ban that character and set me up another. I won't be employed by CCP. All I have to say is sorry, My eve account got caught and banned. Here's your money back. Please come again.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:16:00 - [120] Law dosn't work that way. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:46:00 - [121] hmm dunno, sting operations are legal surely Property law: CCP is getting thier own property back Tort: no harm is being done to anyone, harm to CCP and its players is being alieviated. So it's contract law they are contending, CCP have a sort of contract with us (and their shareholders) which obliges them to take action. I dunno eBay's ToS, but the seller says "You are bidding on the time it took to get these items" and CCP says "No you aren't, you're bidding on our property, which we only gave to you on condition you wouldn't sell it on eBay" At London tube stations, people broker Travelcards, (24 hour public transport passes). They get them for next to nothing off people who don't need them anymore and they sell them to people who do need them, for less than the issuer sells them. They get arrested. Anyway, I'm no contract lawyer. I know people who are, but they wouldn't have a clue, 'cos I doubt the law has caught up with MMORPGs, has it?
Cadadon	Posted - 2005.12.03 21:58:00 - [122] One of the most refreshing threads I've had the pleasure to read in a long time. Well done and continue the good work. Cad ----- CEO of Talon Syndicate
Taran Blake	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:17:00 - [123] Originally by: slip66 Originally by: Taran Blake What you need to do is to petition GM's for the return of lost security status. now thats a good idea! Well, Concord in a way is interfering with a player NPCing isn't it?
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:29:00 - [124] Taran that is class! You are the greatest legal mind of your generation. The Taran Defence - What is an NPC if not a computer playing the game? Correct, restore the security status, case dismissed!
Lorth	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:46:00 - [125] Originally by: Taran Blake Originally by: slip66 Originally by: Taran Blake What you need to do is to petition GM's for the return of lost security status. now thats a good idea! Well, Concord in a way is interfering with a player NPCing isn't it? As the poster above me said, this is great. Its is after all a computer playing the game, and not an actuall person on the other end of the keyboard. I don't even see an argument as to how this can not be considered NPC'ing. Though I'm certain your not going to get your sec status back.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.03 22:52:00 - [126] Originally by: Sreyaluskaya Moyl I dunno eBay's ToS, but the seller says "You are bidding on the time it took to get these items" and CCP says "No you aren't, you're bidding on our property, which we only gave to you on condition you wouldn't sell it on eBay" Yes, and Ebay recognise that. You can enter their IP rights program and have any EULA-infringing auctions relating to your IP (in this case, Eve) removed. They do NOT tolerate sting operations from MMO operatives. I have evidence of this from a very small MMO which tried (the operation was shut down and the devs made to promise not to do it again), as it is against Ebay's own EULA. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.03 23:24:00 - [127] Promise not to do it again on pain of what though? I mean, what is eBay's sanction against CCP? They can't stop CCP giving their own property to a third party. EBay go to court in Iceland to injunct CCP from getting their own property back? It just sounds like there's a lot of room for argument, not all country's legal systems work the same way, and surely the contracts depend on such fundamentals as the definition of "property", in the context of an online game. But OK, I'll take your word for it that you're right. We should continue to work out in-game solutions in this thread cos I reckon there's some potential here.
Angus Tadj	Posted - 2005.12.03 23:55:00 - [128] Good job, Natas. These farmers make me sick when I see them too. I have transferred several million ISK to your account as a donation. I hope it helps.
Odin Skialar	Posted - 2005.12.04 00:28:00 - [129] Hello all, im a new player and have read the 1st pages of this thread. Im not sure what all this macro mining is about. Does it mean people have a program to mine for them while they are afk ? If so how does it haul the ore for them ? And lastly why doesnt CCP ban them if they are using this program to make real life money ... I honestly dont understand why this is a major issue and cant be resolved easily by terminating the accounts of these people ?? Its supposed to be a game
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.04 00:45:00 - [130] Originally by: Sreyaluskaya Moyl Promise not to do it again on pain of what though? I understand their EULA lays out some hefty civil penalties. In any case, I still don't have a problem with individuals and ebay. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.04 02:57:00 - [131] Two kills tonight, this one is my fav'... 2005.12.04 02:20:00 Victim: [removed] Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Royal Amarr Institute Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Raver Shing Security Status: -0.8 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: *Pandemic Thinking (laid the final blow) <<<<<<<<<<<<* Security Status: -0.8 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Thorn Rocket I Name: Drummore Security Status: 4.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -0.8 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Hundesoldat Security Status: -0.6 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Chiburashka Security Status: -0.1 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Destroyed items: Type: Survey Scanner I (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Ice Harvester I (Fitted - High slot) Type: Ice Harvester I (Fitted - High slot) A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Jared VonBargen	Posted - 2005.12.04 05:22:00 - [132] hey, someone mailed me ingame, i deleted your mail, but i have some more names of miners in the Heimatar region, all i really do is scout around for them all day, im like the po-lice!
Arabian Goggle	Posted - 2005.12.04 06:25:00 - [133] Good job on the kills. Has anyone thought of tractor beams, once RMR hits, to drag their cans away? Would this be considered an act of aggression by CONCORD?
Maestro Ulv	Posted - 2005.12.04 06:32:00 - [134] Unfortunatley in an effort to make cool tractor beam implimentation totaly uncool and pointless, not only does the 15km limit, well limit you. But it has to be your cans or your corps according to the Dev page on RMR.
TimeKeepr	Posted - 2005.12.04 06:44:00 - [135] awesome work, keep those pods poppin'!!
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.04 08:37:00 - [136] I've got it, sec hit on barges mining ice should be taken away he he
Kaliesin	Posted - 2005.12.04 10:01:00 - [137] Macro miners in Illuin have got smart, 2 month old accounts using Apocs, now I can't down an Apoc before Concord can down me, sigh.
Squelch	Posted - 2005.12.04 11:21:00 - [138] Are you talking about LINGYONG04, 05 and 06? These characters were in hjortur until I chased them out, it took me a week to do it tho. The hauler for these guys is called equally
Blind Watchmaker	Posted - 2005.12.04 13:27:00 - [139] I hope you guys are petitioning all these macros so CCP know how big this problem is? I'm going to spend a couple of hours touring newbie belts to look for them. SO far I've found 23 in the first system.
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.04 14:08:00 - [140] So few players are hitting the macro's right now that it is like Pssing in the wind. You people need to form your own corps to fight them. We hit our 30 members last night and we rocked. We are cordinating now to take them down in two's and three's. Ya gotta take back YOUR game from these btches A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Gindar	Posted - 2005.12.04 16:32:00 - [141] it's been another bad day for macrominers in jita. Victim: daydreamb Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Pator Tech School Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Drummore Security Status: 3.6 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: gind antimacro1 (laid the final blow) Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Phalanx Rocket I Name: Raver Shing Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Altoon Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Destroyed items: Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Type: Civilian Expanded Cargohold (Fitted - Low slot) Type: White Glaze (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Victim: jiangju Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Pator Tech School Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: gind antimacro1 (laid the final blow) Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Phalanx Rocket I Name: Aidart Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Altoon Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I 3 more have fallen to us. we need more people to kill them faster
mrfireblade	Posted - 2005.12.04 16:45:00 - [142] Natas Liah if you would like some help with your quest let know, I am not bothered losing some smarties
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.04 18:42:00 - [143] good organisational implementation guys lets also get a petition through to ore stealing ie petition the obvious ones after doing research then steal the ore. Take away their assets as well - perhaps use the post petition bounty to produce further ships that can be used against the macro miners - cant wait for RMR
Martin Gore	Posted - 2005.12.04 19:00:00 - [144] Well I past a group of 6 apocs all together going towards a sys with weird names, all in nooby corp...no doubt the next stage of macro ore mining. I set up another acc to have 3 char's of macro killer's.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.04 19:46:00 - [145] Originally by: Maestro Ulv Unfortunatley in an effort to make cool tractor beam implimentation totaly uncool and pointless, not only does the 15km limit, well limit you. But it has to be your cans or your corps according to the Dev page on RMR. Well, replace their can with yours, and then fly in a 20km orbit, tracking the can arround while their industrial's script tries vainly and forever to catch up with the can! Heh. (While likely unviable, it's a nice image) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:27:00 - [146] These ice miners in barges seem not to bother with the jet can thing, can anyone confirm? I too may start a suicide account, can someone post the absolute quickest way to get in a suicide kestral please. (Character creation etc) Thanks
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:42:00 - [147] The ice miners do use haulers, but they move the ice across one unit at a time, through a temporary jet can. I observed this in Kisogo yesterday. Interesting development in Kisogo/Urlen regarding the cruiser Veld miners. They appeared to move the ore to the hauler through a temporary can, one unit at a time! In other words, just like copying and passing out bookmarks. The group doing this was a group of 3-day old Omen cruisers. They would fill their cargo holds with one cycle, then jet a single can, and move the ore across one unit at a time, being scooped by the hauler in a similarly automated fashion. Grabbing the few units of Veld resulted in the can blowing, and jetting of another can. Obviously, when the 3-4 cruisers had each jetted a can only to get it popped, they had to wait 120 seconds until new cans could be jetted, their cargo holds overflowed, and the macro cycle was broken. I didn't work out these details until some time later, when I thought about what I had seen. This was obviously an adaptation to counter ore thieves. The macro was so obvious however, when I petitioned it, the group was insta-banned.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.04 23:44:00 - [148] Originally by: Martin Gore Well I past a group of 6 apocs all together going towards a sys with weird names, all in nooby corp...no doubt the next stage of macro ore mining. I set up another acc to have 3 char's of macro killer's. Quick question. Are you exploiting the trial account option, or seting up new paid for accounts? As ccp policy is not to allow recycled alt's in the act of suicide gankings, id like some clarifcation on this, if indeed you can just setup trial accounts at will. Obviously i don't agree with the practice anyway, but there seems like point in arguing against it now, we have allready moved into lord of the flies territory here so im asking on this point, is it legal to setup trial accounts for the pure act of suicide ganking alt's. ----------- When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.05 00:22:00 - [149] Well personally I would be buying a new account because I can't be arsed to exploit the trial account system, it's hardly worth the time for the ú10p/month, and I was thinking of giving a new account a go. Anyway, I consider giving money to CCP an investment, however small, in a game I like playing. Then after seeing how RMR pans out I would probably give the account to my brother if he would just upgrade his 32MB TNT Riva(!) But in general buying accounts to macro mine = big problem right now buying accounts to make money by expoiting macroers = theoeretical problem for the future. Perhaps the macroers themselves will find a way to automate the killing of other macroers, if there's money in it?
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.05 00:34:00 - [150] Edited by: Pandemic Thinking on 05/12/2005 00:34:34 HIS ONE WILL ROCK YOUR WORLD!! We killed this guys retreiver in Jita, hustled our pods back to kisogo to wait out our timer and regroup and refit. Our Recovery Team recovered an Ice harvester mining laser, which we put on the market to pay for more ships. Low and behold the VICTIM purchases the Ice harvester for 2.7 million from us.., Making sure that we have 10 more ships to hit him with... 2005.12.05 00:14:00 Victim: feil[removed] Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Pator Tech School Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Slab McThornbody Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Capsule Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Gary Busey Security Status: -1.7 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Capsule Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Hundesoldat Security Status: -0.9 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs A Good Deed is nothing more than a Bad Deed in need of a Drink
Sreyaluskaya Moyl	Posted - 2005.12.05 00:56:00 - [151] Originally by: Pandemic Thinking ...which we put on the market to pay for more ships. Low and behold the VICTIM purchases the Ice harvester for 2.7 million from us.., Making sure that we have 10 more ships to hit him with... "Irony Online" Is this worthy of another massive feature in PC Gamer UK? It's a great angle on a big story in MMO's generally, (he hinted subtlely).
ZZandra	Posted - 2005.12.05 03:10:00 - [152] A job well done. Keep up the good work. ISK sellers beware!
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.05 12:36:00 - [153] Another hit. This one was paid for by a EVE player who gave our corp the cash to buy the kessies, launchers and missiles Victim: womanGeneral Alliance: Unknown Corporation: School of Applied Knowledge Destroyed Type: Retriever Solar System: Jita System Security Level: 0.9 Involved parties: Name: Drummore Security Status: 3.2 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Arthur Twosheds Security Status: -0.7 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Reservior Dogs Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Rocket Launcher I Name: Gorgyles (laid the final blow) Security Status: 0.0 Alliance: Unknown Corporation: State War Academy Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Thorn Rocket I IT'S YOUR GAME - TAKE IT BACK
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.06 03:52:00 - [154] The fight continues - Our Members have started to pass the -2.0 mark and are now moving into lower sec space. Jita is still a hot place for our operations, and we've done serious damage. The most humorous is the Macro's buying back the Ice harvesters we grab as loot for 2.7 million a snag. We are a trusting lot, but we suffered a small set back when we were hit by a corp thief. The damage was small - about 3 million worth - but it shown more our character than theirs when we received donations of a couple million isk, from the player base, and was able to resume operations immediately. We've lost track of the number of Macro's we've taken down - I estimate about 25 have falled to our attacks. I can't be online 23/7 and I rely on Killmails and the ever plunging sec rating of the corp player base. I have been watching for the tactics of the Macro's to evolve and change, pressured by the threat of our attacks, but this has not been realized. We've hit the same player 3 times, only to see them refitted and back in the fields at the end of the day, seemingly unaware that we are approaching for another attack - bloody obvious - we show our bounty markers [the skulls] proudly. We are able to take in more members now, and hope that you are starting your own militias in your regions to secure your space for the players and not the isk farmers. We don't want a UO or an EQ2 here in EVE and we must be ready to fight to keep it for the people who Play the game. Remember... IT'S YOUR GAME - TAKE IT BACK
St Dragon	Posted - 2005.12.06 03:57:00 - [155] Well it seems ccp have some suprises for macros trial accounts cant use industrial skills Isk transfers nerfed for trial accounts Ability to renew trial accounts using trial account keyes Nerfed Can flagging And some other stuff i cant remember. All on evenews under the ovyer interview
slip66	Posted - 2005.12.06 03:58:00 - [156] are there any knwn spots in the domain/amarr space region?
Godpool	Posted - 2005.12.06 04:21:00 - [157] I want to say that I think you are really having an effect. As my own private research, I have been logging the number of pages on EBAY for eve online. One month ago it peaked at 22 pages of EVE goods ISK for sale. Then it levels at 18 pages and now it is just 12 pages! and it has been that way for about a week. I have NEVER seen it at 12 pages, not since June maybe when I started tracking the information. I know there are lots of reasons why it is down to 12 pages, but I want to say that one reason could be CCP and the Resevoir Dogs.
Actaeonis	Posted - 2005.12.15 13:48:00 - [158] RMR and Ebay miners... It warms my hart to read this threadàI was starting to feel everyone was get anesthetized to the sight of Macro miners raping belts in high sec space. But I feel barges are becoming a thing of the past. IÆve noticed a distinct trend of these guys moving to Apocs to mine in. The indy is still easy enough to deal withàuntil they move to transports. But taking down Apoc miners will take some timeàand man power. Systems around Youl are going to get hot but itÆs going to be FUN!!
BlackKnight	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:15:00 - [159] Take a run voer to the Malkalen Ice Belts folks. I spent four hours over there terrorizing three groups of macros there (bumping retrievers and iterons, stealing and replacing cans then blowing them up, etc.) I counted 15 retrievers and 3 Iterons in there. There were actual players in there that finally came to assist with the effort to get them out of there. I have talked with Gary Busey/Reservoir Dogs, but I don't believe any anti-macro corp has gone in there and cleaned them out. TIA.
Blood good	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:16:00 - [160] Originally by: Sreyaluskaya Moyl Sterling work, well done. If there was a way I could pay to watch a big smartbombing crew go up against the macroers, I would. So Netas, I'll pay you a couple of million for ringside seats at the next display, if it's near me when I'm playing. (very likely). Publicise the next slaughter, then when you've got a crowd gathered to watch you, provide the entertainment. Then pass around the hat. I can tell you, if I saw a decent macro-slaying I'd gladly cough up a couple of million towards your costs on the spot. And I'm just one player. Get lots of people to watch and you won't lose any ISK at all! You could even have a nice little earner on your hands! Super Sunday.... exclusive rights....$$$...Destruction derby tonite!!!! So - time and place for the next hit, I'll pay you a couple of mill to watch the carnage. Anyone else interested? LIVE macroer destruction! Who wouldn't pay to watch that! Id pay for that :) Pay for seeing macro miners getting blown to pieces. Image "Who dares wins" Image oversized, please review the forum rules - Laqum
Lori Carlyle	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:17:00 - [161] KILL THEM ALL
BlackKnight	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:18:00 - [162] I should add that I was graciously paid 5 mil isk for my efforts by the "real" miners in the area.
Marcus Sovereign	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:24:00 - [163] Originally by: Mr Floppyknickers Edited by: Mr Floppyknickers on 01/12/2005 00:44:33 One has to wonder how long it will be before there is a section of the website where you can buy in game items for RL cash that is run by CCP. When you think about it, CCP has few options when dealing with macrofarmers. They can stay with the status quo, continuing to take petitions and deal with them on an account by account basis. Or they can become a macrofarmer's worst nightmare... competition in an already overcrowded market. The former is time-consuming and a hit-and-miss approach to controlling the problem. The latter would allow them to tap into additional revenue, and they wouldn't have to worry about having to hire a bunch of "macro-slaves" to mine and sell. SOE did this with EQ2. I'm not certain if they did it to hurt the farmers and ebayers, or if they just decided to tap into an extra source of revenue. Be careful what you wish for. Personally, I abhor the practise of buying and selling isk... but what are you going to do? "Never equate education with intelligence; nor intelligence with wisdom." - me "A smart man learns from his own mistakes; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others." - also me
Aarn Khaar	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:37:00 - [164] Originally by: sonofollo well the find them petition them and steal their jet can ore also works wonders - it lowers their output and as long as peititoning u are quite ok to play the ore theif role that is a valid ingame element. Barring that launch youre own jetcan pull all the ore out of theirs into youres and blow it up (youre one) that way they loose the ore and u blow the can (of course after RMR simply leave it in youre can) when they take it back blow em skyhigh A much more reasonable and thoughtful answer. I am sorry to the original poster but your methods are not fool proof. Some people do have a language barrier. Some people are not at the keyboard during the entire mining process. I for one do alt+tab to read the forums and check out of game websites for information. Then alt+tab back and dump my cargo hold into my secured canister until it is full. Then fly to station to get my industrial. Anyway, your philosphy of casualities of war is disturbing. Killing one innocent pilot is too much. Not to mention you are ruining your security rating. Hopefully, you will change practices to what the quoted poster suggests.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:38:00 - [165] Originally by: Nyphur So instead of using cheap suicide frigates and ganking each barge or indy with concentrated fire, you got right up next to a bunch and suicided some really expensive battleships to take them out. Bad plan :/. you know back in the day there was this feature called insurance... Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.15 14:58:00 - [166] Reservoir Dogs: Stop selling them for 2.7 mil. Jack the prices up for the whole region and force them to leave high sec to buy miners affordably. They'll either take a hit again, or they'll waltz into low sec and get shot to hell. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Mac Danniels	Posted - 2005.12.15 15:37:00 - [167] My concern is this, Say these groups have 20 accounts per person, and there are 500 groups. That's about 150,000 Dollars going into CCP's Accounts from the macro miners. Why would CCP want to stop that income? I am a new player, 5 days, but it seems that is a lot of money to run out of a game. Lee
Mimio	Posted - 2005.12.15 16:04:00 - [168] Originally by: Mac Danniels My concern is this, Say these groups have 20 accounts per person, and there are 500 groups. That's about 150,000 Dollars going into CCP's Accounts from the macro miners. Why would CCP want to stop that income? I am a new player, 5 days, but it seems that is a lot of money to run out of a game. Lee because it damages CCP bussinnes. Rememeber, chineese farmers are not for paying to CCP, but for making money on CCP field. As result when they invest for example 150000 they expect at least 150000 return. Where they plan to get 300000? On EBay. From OTHER players. - Having isks sold en masse over EBay Eve quickly get extremely bad opinion (rememeber Lineage?)It is bad for Eve community. - There are a lots of inexperienced people with billions of money. It is bad for Eve community. - Consequences for economy may disastrous. I doubts that Eve team expected thousands macrominers as source of ore. - Server load. Nobody wants to get additional server load from char controlled by computer. I prefer to see more live person in the game, than different "igfdrs", "Pretty girl05", "HuangHuang" etc.
Rakhan kane	Posted - 2005.12.15 16:12:00 - [169] There was a clever macroer who thought people wouldn't recognise him as one if he put all his alts into a corp. Cost him 9 barges, 2 haulers and 2 pods to learn what a mistake that was. I have all his alts in my addressbook, so when RMR goes live, it's time to pay him a visit again.
Jiggy	Posted - 2005.12.15 16:15:00 - [170] Originally by: Mimio because it damages CCP bussinnes. Rememeber, chineese farmers are not for paying to CCP, but for making money on CCP field. As result when they invest for example 150000 they expect at least 150000 return. Where they plan to get 300000? On EBay. From OTHER players. - Having isks sold en masse over EBay Eve quickly get extremely bad opinion (rememeber Lineage?)It is bad for Eve community. - There are a lots of inexperienced people with billions of money. It is bad for Eve community. - Consequences for economy may disastrous. I doubts that Eve team expected thousands macrominers as source of ore. - Server load. Nobody wants to get additional server load from char controlled by computer. I prefer to see more live person in the game, than different "igfdrs", "Pretty girl05", "HuangHuang" etc. Unfortunately the evidence supports the "CCP either like it, or dont care" approach.
Tommy TenKreds	Posted - 2005.12.15 16:28:00 - [171] Originally by: Jiggy Unfortunately the evidence supports the "CCP either like it, or dont care" approach. This is something I am quite confused about. This thread prompted me to go and take a look at the eBay situation for myself and I am frankly shocked by the amount of EVE exploit related crap on sale there. Why doesn't CCP enforce it's EULA in cooperation with eBay by having them remove all of those auctions and ban the responsible ISP's?
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.15 16:33:00 - [172] I agree ... the evidence shows us that CCP does not deal with macrominers or are unable to deal with them, myself we find macrominers in lowsec well... might be iskfarmers but that is not better to be honest, we blow them up on sight... So far we have taken out 3-4 barges maybe more from the same group on 3 different times. The very first macrominer that I met, I have sent in 3 petitions on and still after like 2 months or so they still work 23/7... I did add him to my addressbook to see when he logs on, every day he does just that. He is a confirmed macrominer, I have followed his progress for a while too, first when I met him and his group he was mining in medium miningbarges and brutixes .. (brutixes where for protection), he operated down to 0.5 systems, a few weeks after first time he had one battleship (megathron) as protection (drones)... as far as I know he still use medium miningbarges (might have moved up to large) and megathrons for protections. First time I met him he was mining for Kernite, same with second time... third time he moved over to pyroxeres because in the area of his (mind you this was many many systems) there just where no more kernite. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.15 16:55:00 - [173] articblue - i think with the advent of RMR that to ge at these battleships is going to require player corps to go after these guys with multiple battleships and jammers. It can be done and will be interesting to see how things pan out.
GoldHorn	Posted - 2005.12.15 16:57:00 - [174] So many whiners. U are like a banch of grannies. Actualy grannies dont whine so much. In 1 month u will all be here again whining about mineral and ship prices. Wonder if your age or IQ is 10.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.15 17:00:00 - [175] lol goldhorn - we wont be whining when we start to take the little worm bots down in combat. Me and others will clense kador and kor azor region. Pick up some nice loot in the process me thinks. Course there are deep ISK pockets behind this and will never erase it but it should relaly be some fun blowing stuff up in empire
Tommy TenKreds	Posted - 2005.12.15 17:01:00 - [176] Okay, so now I have absorbed this whole thread and I have a growing sense of being appalled by this situation. While I applaud the players who are attempting to address the matter with in-game solutions, this is a piecemeal effort and will not end the problem. Perhaps we need to put greater pressure on CCP to address the problem. More creative solutions need to implemented to cut off the exploit at source. One idea might be for CCP to implement mining "mini-games" that require regular active participation and cannot be anticipated by scripts. Another might be to simply disallow mutiple accounts per person. In any case, these exploiters have to be stopped.
MegAtomic	Posted - 2005.12.15 17:11:00 - [177] Got a few last week in Veisto. they have not been seen there since. Bumped them and all no reply. But I dont have a BC so we took all their ore and stored it. Was about 100K cargospace in all. Its still in my hangar unrefined as I refuse to let it hit the market and destroy the oreprices more I don't like stealing but from these guys I do. I just dont get better off it myself as I dont use what I steal. The names of the miners were: Kooelry Kommow Towwol Killtime20051111 these 4 were 100% confirmed. and reported to a GM. Age all the same up until the day. All from the School of Applied Knowledge 2 others that I suspect were the haulers but I am not sure. Could have been outsiders. All memebers of the NPC corp Republic Military School. Aeccto Dhaato Pan Maokuan These were not killed as I lack the firepower and skills. But if someones sees them feel free to burn to a crisp
xanjezor	Posted - 2005.12.15 17:31:00 - [178] Interesting read. To those who practice the suicide bombings of the macroers, just a small piece of advice on sec status...why, after taking down farmer/s, don't u go to a roid belt and kill a few rats? I was under the impression that this would boost your sec status? or maybe it might not boost it by enough? can someone comment? Strangely enough, I love to mine so anything that stops me (and others, for that matter) from enjoying the game is gonna make me do 1 of 2 things...quit EvE or find away of dealing with the problem within TQ itself...as others have. As I'm not one for quitting, it would have to be the other.
Stryker Down	Posted - 2005.12.15 17:41:00 - [179] while I appreciate everyone's efforts in thwarting the macro miners of EvE. The consequences are that the miners do leave your space and venture elsewhere. I now have a small infestation in my little corner of the woods. I consider a neighbor that flushes out*****roaches from their house and sends them scurrying over to my house as a bad neighbor regardless of what their intent is, please leave this to the GM's and stop being vigilante's, the reason why GM's don't endorse vigilantism is because there are consequences that the vigilante's do not comprehend.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.15 17:50:00 - [180] Eventually they get flushed to low sec, and you know what happens then.....it's already started happening, in fact. To those wondering why CCP isn't seemingly doing anything: They are, actually. RMR is part of what they're doing. See, for CCP to ban an account, you're talking about legal issues. Since the EULA is a terms-of-service agreement, it's not enforceable (it's not illegal to sell ISK online). That means that if it came up, CCP has to be able to defend their reasons for banning every account they ban...the EULA represents a contractual agreement between CCP and the player, and the burden of proof is on CCP if they ban someone. That's a real ***. Especially if macroers get smarter and start sitting at the keys of one machine, or putting auto-responses and frequency randomization strings in their macros. CCP can't make a blanket nerf because it would ruin things for everyone else (read, SOE-style), so instead they cooked up can flagging. Makes the miners happy because they can shoot at ore thieves, and makes macroing even harder. So it's not that CCP isn't doing anything, they're providing us the tools to defend our community for them. Sure, they could research and prepare to ban all those accounts, and I'm sure they are. You may remember a few months ago when some 80 accounts were banned for ISK-selling, because CCP set up a sting operation. Alts for the sellers came on the forums, made it sound like CCP had misfired, but we all knew better. You can bet your battleship that CCP had been working on that sting for about 6 months, and 5 of those was legal paperwork and bull** to ensure laws were followed in every involved country. Keeping that in mind, it's up to us. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2005.12.15 17:53:00 - [181] Originally by: Stryker Down while I appreciate everyone's efforts in thwarting the macro miners of EvE. The consequences are that the miners do leave your space and venture elsewhere. I now have a small infestation in my little corner of the woods. I consider a neighbor that flushes out***roaches from their house and sends them scurrying over to my house as a bad neighbor regardless of what their intent is, please leave this to the GM's and stop being vigilante's, the reason why GM's don't endorse vigilantism is because there are consequences that the vigilante's do not comprehend. Vigilante's 4TW!! We need more vigilante's hehe If you feel bad that the macroers transfered to your system then do something and send them away again. If you dont want to then by all means Petition them and wait for the GM's to handle it**. You want others to do something they have been doing for months, so why not try doing it yourself? To all Vigilante's, keep the pressure on those macro scum. We got pirates, anti-pirates, ore thieves, outlaws, and bounty hunters, so why cant we have vigilante's? They are playing a role and that role involves killing/harassing robots that mine 23/7.
OOXOO	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:02:00 - [182] Hello everybody I have been reading this thread and have a few concerns. First I want to let you all know that I am not a macro miner nor do I approve of the practice. I am a 7 month old character that has spent all my time building my mining skills up so I can become a strong miner and ship builder in game. I have spent many hours sitting in my chair clicking and clicking as my cargo container fills up. I just recently was able to buy my first mining barge and loaded it down with some good strip miners with crystals. Needless to say I have spent no time working on combat skills as I dont plan on doing much combat in game. I just enjoy mining, building, and selling to make my money. Well like I said, since I dont play for the combat, I limit my mining to higher sector space to avoid the npc's that I cant fight against. I have had many ships come up to me and bump me thinking I am a high sector macrominer. On a few occasions I have had ships target me and attack even though I am moving my ship around and talking in the local chat that I am at my keyboard. I believe this to be a problem. Please dont get me wrong, I have no problem with people blowing up macrominers. I infact encourage it. For the last week I have had some chinese macroers move into my system and destroy the market prices of ore in my area. They dont talk they dont move around they just sit and mine till the belt is wiped out. It makes me nervous that they do this in my system cause I know it will eventually bring the macro killing players here and I will end up becoming a victim of the macroers stupidity. I am going to be contacting some of you in game to come to my system and help to get rid of these macroers. But at the same time am hoping that this can be resolved without the innocent being hurt. I know I am going to be flamed for this post and many of you are going to say its my fault for not building up my combat skills and this is just the way the game goes. I play EVE so I can relax. I have a very very stressfull job in real life and enjoy a nice evening of relaxed mining as I have some music on and drink a few beers. I am not a power gamer bent on building a huge corporation or empire. I just want to mine my little bit of ore for a few hours each week and rest assured that im not going to be blown out of space because some trigger happy macro killer thinks im a macroer in high sector space. For those interested in helping to rid my system of these macro miners that have just moved in please let me know. My goal here is to become friends with you guys and to strike up an understanding of who the cheating macro people are and who the people that really enjoy mining are. I would also be interested in perhaps having any of you combat oriented players that may be interested in a corp to become a part of my productions corp. Would love to move into some lower sector space and have some protection. Ok well flame away everybody. Just my 2 cents
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:03:00 - [183] Canflagging, minigames... it won't work why ??? lets see on the icemining, they have miners who mine ice, when cargo is full.. ship fly back.. no jet can deployed, no reason to why canflagging would work. Second of all... tried the canflagging ??? if you open a container that is not yours you get a warning up... a macro would not click okey or it can easy be configured to not to... hench canflagging won't work. Suicidekessies will only work so far, once macrominers start using all battleships you can't do that either.. and belive me some already do just that. Minigames... bad idea.. if you are in low sec mining and you need to warp out because of either NPC rats or players ... a damn minigame pops up and you need to click it down. Only real way to deal with macro and isk farmers on are to force mining into playercorps, it is the only way to actually deal with it, atleast then people got a real way to deal with them on. Also ... in addition to that you need to put so that if jumping corp you can't do mining for like a week so to prevent people from jumping a wardecced corp. (macrominers will hurt most by this). There is no other way to deal with the macro/isk farmers problem, well one more but as stated before CCP does not have the tools to deal with them aparently. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:07:00 - [184] Edited by: Corvus Dove on 15/12/2005 18:08:41 It's a reasonable post, but I can tell you why they bump you. Your name. You LOOK like a macroer. People tend to consider that before looking at whether or not you're chatting, because you could still be running a macro. Also, not everyone in a suicide kestrel is macro miner hunting. Many are just high-sec pirates. If you're ina belt, and a kestrel shows up and locks you, bug out. It's primarily a matter of CCP being willing to kick them all, but not entirely able, and killing the profits is the best way to combat them now. Edit: And Arctic, suicide Geddons don't cost that much. Plus, as they transition to BS, they're also transitioning to low-sec. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Lord Artemis	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:15:00 - [185] has anyone suggested to CCP to actually restrict the time that characters can be in an NPC corp? say 45 days or so, or after 45 days they get sent to a deadweight NPC corp that can be declared on? other suggestions appreciated but a solution that fits the following criteria would allow player retribution and also still protect real noobs. 1) NPC corps not a permanent place for a character, get in a corp or be moved after a time to NPC corp with risk (incentive to join a corp or form your own) 2) most people know that if your corp is asking for trouble (known macro miners, ore thieves, or general loud mouths) someones gonna take the time to pay for a war dec 3) safe travel and gameplay is important for the new players, however, getting rid of permanent safety net is paramount. this could also alleviate the desire and want for people to fly around alts to circumvent their uber bad or uber wanted main ___________________________ Aegis Militia Diplomatic Relations Officer C.E.O. of SHOD
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:18:00 - [186] Edited by: Arcticblue2 on 15/12/2005 18:19:34 Originally by: Corvus Dove Edited by: Corvus Dove on 15/12/2005 18:08:41Edit: And Arctic, suicide Geddons don't cost that much. Plus, as they transition to BS, they're also transitioning to low-sec. Ever read my posts ??? my corp are already hunting macro/isk farmers in 0.4 even... if there where more low sec systems here I am sure they would go even deeper.... EDIT: And btw. how many suicide Geddons do you need to take out one Megathron you think ? Will the cost be higher for the macrohunter or the macrominer ? ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Sjoor	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:19:00 - [187] Edited by: Sjoor on 15/12/2005 18:24:53 Macro's are a pain for eve long run i guess. However res dogs.. probably will dry up b4 the macrominers are gone. So imo CCP should adress this problem. In the mmorp i played b4 there was a simular problem with macrominers. Basicly the devs came with following solution. Once in a while a oversized rat would appear. No loot droppings, no isk gained from that rat. But it would just pwn u pretty fast. Tho that fast with a little delay, u would have plenty time to warp out. Realising that barge miners have a big cargo hold and like to go afk once in a while, biobreaks 4tw, these big rats need to target slow like say 10 minutes. Of course this is just an idea and would need lotsa tweaking. and not knowing how macro's work, there might be a easy work around in rewriting the macro so the macrominers just move when the rat comes in.. Basicly they idea behind it is that active players have to be a little carefull and macro or inactive players are screwed. Yes this also means that being afk for hours can get ya killed. Afterall u are in space and not safely docked. Enjoy
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:25:00 - [188] I have seen scripts stop mining if players come in, even seen scripts "talk" in local to simulate a chat even that you see the script is mission ALOT of AI. They also target stuff.. and kill them off with drones hench why they use Battleships too in low sec. The idea of bringing in one nber npc into the system I suppose can work, one way if you keep killing rats in a belt there should maybe come in a "big brother" of the rats.. bigger than miningbarges can deal with. There is a reason why we did not see macro/isk farmers in low sec until quite recently... exactly ... because their scripts did not fight back, now it does that so even low sec are not free for macro/isk farmers. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:34:00 - [189] Originally by: Arcticblue2 Edited by: Arcticblue2 on 15/12/2005 18:19:34 Originally by: Corvus Dove Edited by: Corvus Dove on 15/12/2005 18:08:41Edit: And Arctic, suicide Geddons don't cost that much. Plus, as they transition to BS, they're also transitioning to low-sec. Ever read my posts ??? my corp are already hunting macro/isk farmers in 0.4 even... if there where more low sec systems here I am sure they would go even deeper.... EDIT: And btw. how many suicide Geddons do you need to take out one Megathron you think ? Will the cost be higher for the macrohunter or the macrominer ? Keep in mind how to calculate the cost. Suicide Geddon + insurance and modules = 90 mil Geddon suicides, loses half of modules and geddon itself = -70 mil 65 mil paid back in insurance = +65 mil Total loss = around 35 mil tops. Then you get the equipment back from the macroer, which often covers the remaining amount. ISK farming Apocalypse = 150 mil including good modules to support miner IIs on crappy skills. Insurance makes it 180 mil or so. Miner is investing $15/mo x number of accounts to mine, makes around 300 mil per day unmolested. 100mil online sells for around what, $50 US? Miner is hit, loses all 300 mil for that day, that's a loss of what would have been $150 US. Also loses BS and modules and such, plus insurance payout back, total loss around $80mil plus cost to insure another = $110 mil. 2x battleships = up to 250 mil lost, or $125 US Killing a macrominer can cost them, time/money, $275 per day. That means that Reservoir Dogs has potentially cost macroers as a whole what, around $25,000 of lost profits in a single month, increasing? And the more they have to defend their macroing, the less can be mined, thus increasing the cost if the base is considered to be barges in high-sec. Think like a macroer. You want to make $150 per day. You macro 5 out of 7 days of the week. That means your goal, for your $60 a month you pay for your 5 accounts, is to make $4500/month if all your ISK sells when you post it. It doesn't, necessarily, so we'll say more realistically $3000/month. Figure in what reservoir dogs has done alone. In missed opportunity and destroyed ships, they have effectively put 6-7 macrominer pseudoplayers entirely out of business (at least, market effect). In short, it's working. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Aarn Khaar	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:36:00 - [190] Originally by: OOXOO Hello everybody I know I am going to be flamed for this post and many of you are going to say its my fault for not building up my combat skills and this is just the way the game goes. I play EVE so I can relax. I have a very very stressfull job in real life and enjoy a nice evening of relaxed mining as I have some music on and drink a few beers. I am not a power gamer bent on building a huge corporation or empire. I just want to mine my little bit of ore for a few hours each week and rest assured that im not going to be blown out of space because some trigger happy macro killer thinks im a macroer in high sector space. I agree with you completely. There is a reason why vigilante justice is not allowed in the real world and that is because innocent people get hurt. No one should be judge, jury, and executioner. I have no problem with real macrominers getting blown to bits but it is the possibility that real miners are getting blown up or harassed simply because they are presumed to be macrominers that I have a problem with. Going around blowing people up you believe to be macromining is going to start a very bad wave. It seems to me that being a vigilante is a path to being a pirate. Pretty soon you will find that your security rating is so low you cannot even dock to stations to get the missions you need to raise it back up. It is better to steal the ore from those you suspect to be macromining. The programmers have now put in flagging. Just concerned that your good intentions are going to take you and others down a bad path.
phillip duncan	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:37:00 - [191] I have just had an Idea that may help deal with Macro'ers without to much work or changes on CCP as well as staying on the good side of concord. Have a new devison of ISD that takes over dealing with macro miners, callled the Marshels, then one is found they form a possie and drop the macro'ers sec status, then let the hunt begin. The full idea is in this thread posted in the idea forum. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=261742
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:40:00 - [192] The difficulty is that CCP is restricted, in the interests of gaming fairness that protect all of us from abuse of power, in their methods of identifying and punishing macrominers. In EVE, the innocent always get hurt. It's part of what makes EVE, EVE. If it wasn't this, it'd be something else. It's the cost of being innocent. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:42:00 - [193] I do belive that RD have hit macroers pretty hard but lets face it... how long can they keep on doing this ??? as stated before me and my corp are doing our part by hitting them in low sec and well yeah even in high sec (they almost managed to pod them too), plus we rob them at every chance we get (and I hate robbing people), we do however give back ore one of our rule is ... if someone proves to not be a macrominer or iskfarmer then they will get their ore back!!!! Hopefully now after RMR is done, you can hope that CCP will address the problem better. I sure have hope for it... ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
SuiCal	Posted - 2005.12.15 18:58:00 - [194] Anyone interested in setting up an alt to kill these scum can follow this route at character creation. Caldari - Civire Entrepenuer (sp?) State War Academy Operations Command Captain Training. This will give you the relevant skills to able to jump straight into a Rocket Kessie (3 of these will take down a Barge before concord responds) however please be aware of the rules surrounding this .. 1) DO NOT recycle this character when it's sec status drops to low, organise a run into low sec and kill some NPC rats to raise it back up again. 2) YOU MUST allow your ship to be destroyed by concord, not doing so is considered an Exploit and will get you banned. (you may have to wait around while concord think about it ( I've sat there for 10 minutes before concord got round to killing me ) ) Oh and don't form a gang as the agro timer seems to effect all gang members, so if one of you gang undocks a little early and resets the agro timer, you will get shot again ( lost 3 kessies before I worked this out )
phillip duncan	Posted - 2005.12.15 19:13:00 - [195] Originally by: Corvus Dove The difficulty is that CCP is restricted, in the interests of gaming fairness that protect all of us from abuse of power, in their methods of identifying and punishing macrominers.quote] I agree, that is why I had the GM's who currently do the banning still in control. ISD would do the in-game checks, observing and attempting to comunicate etc. The ISD would do the field work allowing GM's to look at more cases per day. ISD would be able to gather the evidence over several days using diffrent people to make sure that one person does not abuse the power they are given. I am sure the CCP can protection it from abuse. The only active part that the ISD would take against the Macro miner is arranging the possie once the GM has done his ruling. ISD would be better able to observe a suspect and agree or not is there is suspected macro's being used before the GM's get involved. So GM's already have the first stages doen before they get involved. The GM could give a warning and reminder about the EULA, then give them a couple of days before rechecking the use of Macros first. I am mainly tring to come up with idea's to give CCP the resources that they need.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.15 19:18:00 - [196] Originally by: phillip duncan I am mainly tring to come up with idea's to give CCP the resources that they need. That would be us :). CCP can't "prove" macromining if someone is at the keys without doing some things that violate all sorts of privacy and security laws in several countries. So we are the resource ;). ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Saul Thrace	Posted - 2005.12.15 19:38:00 - [197] If I may add my two cents: I used to play Everquest 2. In EQ2 there was no PvP at the time, and therefore they had entire armies of bots roaming around. It's very eery to look around you and see 2 groups of 3 characters following each other in perfect sync, hack and slashing at low-level npcs. SoE (a Sony branch, managing the game), not only didn't do anything about it, but ended up encouraging the practice by creating their own online shop for items. That's the day I quit BTW Well anyway, where I'm getting at is that minigames and all that won't work at all, you would be very suprised the complexity at which those bots operated back in EQ2. What players could do, they could to, including building items, healing each other, etc. So I think it's absolutely FANTASTIC that Eve gives us a chance, now matter how small, to fight back. And guys like Reservoir Dogs are my new heros . As soon as I got a bit of cash, I'll happily donate it to them.
Pandemic Thinking	Posted - 2005.12.15 19:45:00 - [198] Originally by: Aarn Khaar Originally by: OOXOO Hello everybody I know I am going to be flamed for this post and many of you are going to say its my fault for not building up my combat skills and this is just the way the game goes. I play EVE so I can relax. I have a very very stressfull job in real life and enjoy a nice evening of relaxed mining as I have some music on and drink a few beers. I am not a power gamer bent on building a huge corporation or empire. I just want to mine my little bit of ore for a few hours each week and rest assured that im not going to be blown out of space because some trigger happy macro killer thinks im a macroer in high sector space. I agree with you completely. There is a reason why vigilante justice is not allowed in the real world and that is because innocent people get hurt. No one should be judge, jury, and executioner. I have no problem with real macrominers getting blown to bits but it is the possibility that real miners are getting blown up or harassed simply because they are presumed to be macrominers that I have a problem with. Going around blowing people up you believe to be macromining is going to start a very bad wave. It seems to me that being a vigilante is a path to being a pirate. Pretty soon you will find that your security rating is so low you cannot even dock to stations to get the missions you need to raise it back up. It is better to steal the ore from those you suspect to be macromining. The programmers have now put in flagging. Just concerned that your good intentions are going to take you and others down a bad path. I'm pretty tired of repeatly addressing these concerns. I recommend that you scan my post and see what we do to avoid this problem and what we would do if it actually happened... I will say "So far, No Complaints." IT'S YOUR GAME - TAKE IT BACK If I know one thing, I know this: I aim to Misbehave
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.15 19:55:00 - [199] well seperate form macro miners - this is focused more at ore theives and high sec pirates as well as miners that dont use industrials to haul out of jet cans. So its side benefit will be more pressure on macro miners. The simple solution would be to allow a 2m per week individual NPC character war dec system so if i find syming 21 and want to attack him i can take out a concord sanctioned contract and perhaps allows me to kill this character 5-10 times in one week Of course making it impossible to do so against anyone in a player corp (would require a corp on corp war dec) but this would remove the protection of the NPC corp (also limits on anyone in the game less than 1 month) gives them time to join a player corp but u get the idea. Lets get the focus off macro miners and ISK farmers and just back in general which is these can systems in place are there to allow more player on player combat in high sec and those now islly enough not to team up with a corp and have them haul while u mine well they are on their own.
James Britanicus	Posted - 2005.12.15 20:00:00 - [200] If CCP was really serious about enforcing EULA they would contract me or any other person to buy from EBAY and report the person transferring the loot or isk or what ever then boot that account and all related accounts. They don't bother with it so they must not care. That would get rid of many corps and alliances as well as massively decrease the lag.; Then inst's could stay.
Thorion Mortisfilius	Posted - 2005.12.16 10:37:00 - [201] As a person that took a 7 month vacation from Eve and has just returned. This subject worries me. Seven to eight months ago I lost my whole fleet to the politics of a couple of alliances. Almost a years worth of work was gone in two weeks. Not complaining though. Other than the hours spent on blockade duty and the multitude of 'Call to Arms' false alarms it was an exciting period of gameplay. But I am going off-subject here. Currently, I am on a massive mining campaign to rebuild my assets. I can be seen in an ice field for hours and hours. I am a member of a NPC corp because I don't wish to be at the mercy of the politics of others. (If I have to activate a clone or put in an insurance claim, I want to know it was because of an enemy I made). And as I read, these are the things looked for in a macro-miner. Not wishing to be on a beer or bio run (after the fourth beer or so, the beer and bio seem to go hand-in-hand)and coming back to the keyboard to find my barge is debris. What can I do to guarantee not being an innocent bystander. I am all for harrassing macro-ers out of game but don't want to be executed for crimes I didn't commit due to lynch-mob mentalities. Also after reading this, it explains why I get very little response to my inane attempts at space humor in local due to being excessively bored.
Daac Iomen	Posted - 2005.12.16 12:01:00 - [202] While I understand how bad mac miners are, its' a little scary for a dedicated miner working in high sec space when you guys go out and blast barges you think are MM. I mine a lot...enough to have developed a very efficient pattern that I'm certain looks automated over time...and I almost always have my chat window closed when I mine because I talk to my corp on Teamspeak. I wouldn't see someone talking to me in local. I mine in high sec space because, lets face it...mining is boring, and the less I have to watch for threats the more time I have to scan the market, or do something up and around the house (for 3-6 minutes at time anyways...heh). I guess what some of us are saying is Please. PLEASE make sure you are targeting the right group of people.
Yates Bast	Posted - 2005.12.16 14:32:00 - [203] Edited by: Yates Bast on 16/12/2005 14:32:23 I just resubscribed this morning after being away for over 1.5 years. Why? Because I've been wondering if there is a corp. in eve who combats isk-farmers. I have thought for a long time now that the huge amount of isk being sold online has got to mess this game up in many ways. This has kept me from resubscribing. I noticed this thread 2 days ago. So now I'm back. So those of you who say this could drive CCP business away- albiet isk-farmers, getting rid of isk-farmers also BRINGS business into the game. Dark Age of Camelot a few months ago started a new 'classic' server. One of the changes on this server was some rules that made buff-bots less-effective. Many people play the classic server because of that. Players have said that buffbots are an extra account that's bringing the game company money. But I think in the long run, more people leave because of buff-bots than accounts gained. The classic server is the most-populated server in the game now. -Yellowrat
Gindar	Posted - 2005.12.16 17:30:00 - [204] to all members of reservior dogs: Gindar/gind_antimacro1 has not been able to log in for a while. i won't be able to come back for a few months it seems! :( please get the word out hopefully pandemic thinking will hear. happy hunting
Ralph Rackstraw	Posted - 2005.12.16 17:45:00 - [205] Whew! my mining macorids still work. i was worried. banged out a few jet cans overnight though. some others on the macro miner chat channel are having problems tho. i did a fresh install and that helped.

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