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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Onquaber
Umbrella Neo Corp E C L I P S E
0
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Posted - 2013.07.09 06:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.
You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.
Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.
I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.
Why the pve cant be fun?
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Snexwang Wnaganan
Indie Capsuleer Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2013.07.09 06:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because no fun is allowed. |
Aliventi
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
167
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Posted - 2013.07.09 06:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Killing ratters and looting the faction/deadspace mod off their wrecks for isk is fun. Just sayin'. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
Antaria T'nar
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.07.09 07:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
i see problems and no solutions
go on, spin us a mechanic that doesnt get boring the 100th time you do it |
Daisai
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
114
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Posted - 2013.07.09 07:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Every mmo and close to every multiplayer game has grinding/farming which gets boring after some time. Eve is no exception, so the thing you probably can do is do all of the above you mentioned to get isk to keep it less boring. |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
16
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Posted - 2013.07.09 07:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dynamic content.
There are six (I think) different rat "races" in game. Using the current mission framework, randomize the rat race, ship numbers and types. If recovering an object, randomize which object and room it is contained in.
Introduce sleeper incursions into k space. Randomize incursion ship types and numbers. Allow incursion rats to attack POSes in k space. Allow sleepers to attack POSes in w space.
Remove ore belts and ore anoms completely. They now must be scanned. Increase the variation of ore spawning in all systems.
Make moon goo a finite commodity that respawns after 2-3 weeks after running out. Randomize the spawn forcing more low and null sec dynamics.
Randomize belt rats making belt chaining near impossible.
Add 20-30 more exploration sites with a massively randomized loot spectrum. Randomize whether sites get rats and the composition.
Add more systems that must be discovered, gates built to, planets and moons scanned for resources.
Make newly built gates public or private. Either way, charge a toll to recoup construction costs.
For those concerned about lore, make something up. The game is as weak on story driven lore as all the rest of the PvE. |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
465
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Posted - 2013.07.09 07:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Is this a "been there, done that" thread? _______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime. |
DSpite Culhach
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
123
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Posted - 2013.07.09 08:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
The only sensible way I could see to make the universe seem more dynamic, by messing with NPC entities, would be to also make the universe far more dangerous on the "PvE" level, to a point where missions become far more unpredictable, jumping to some gates might trigger NPC ambushes, random reinforcements in missions, scripted randomized missions events such as trapped containers, or added damage generating elements in missions (google "EVE Patient Zero") and so on.
Would it make the EVE universe a far more interesting place? Sure. Would the "Carebear" population have a massive fit? Oh yea.
I'd say bring it on. As long as the danger vs reward is not unbalanced - and good luck with balancing that - I fail to see how EVE would be made worse. PvE ships should die a LOT as far as I am concerned, after all those damn NPC pirates are fed up with you just barging in and taking the Damsel - AGAIN - so try looking smug when they uncloak 6 bombers and start wailing on your ass.
Anyway. Too much work for CCP. Can't really blame the little guys. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Joan Greywind
Temnava Legion No Holes Barred
46
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Posted - 2013.07.09 08:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
PVE in a EVE is a farming tool, a tool to gather resources so you can play the real game, which is pvp. It's boring yes, but so are all forms of grinding, that is their purpose. Now you can spice your pve habits a bit, incursions are by no way like harder missions, if only for the fact you are on ts with 10-40 people, they are highly profitable too. You can also venture in wh space to do sites, or even null to do some pirate missions. Here is a tip if you are doing it solo, it probably isn't going to be fun (except mining which is always eye clawing boring). |
Burl en Daire
The Ecstatic Cult of Dionysus Trifectas Syndicate
7
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Antaria T'nar wrote:i see problems and no solutions
go on, spin us a mechanic that doesn't get boring the 100th time you do it
You are correct that every mechanic will become repetitive after a few times but I agree that the PVE is very predictable. Video games are like that and with the slight exceptions EVE is like that. Fleet doctrines ensure that we will play the same game over and over.
I have been thinking about this for a while and the only way to fix something like this is to make the rats able to scale to the ability of the ratter. I think my biggest problem is that the rats can be goggled and a description of their setups and numbers found easily. Rats should have their numbers, setups and tactics varied depending on the number of ratters, how fast the ratters kill the rats and a couple of the rats should carry a ship scanner that inputs some info into an algorithm that chooses a more difficult set of rats.
Vary the ship types, weapons carried, ranges, speeds, tank types and number of rats. Being able to do and internet search and determine that you can win is a junk way of doing things. I would love to see more ships put onto kill boards by rats. I don't think they need to act like real people with top level AI but make it a challenge and risky. I don't want to drive people away from EVE because they can't farm but it is too easy. I can almost let my drones out and AFK sites. Where is the fun in that? |
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Templar Knightsbane
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Antaria T'nar wrote:i see problems and no solutions
go on, spin us a mechanic that doesnt get boring the 100th time you do it
Sex |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
252
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Onquaber wrote:
Why the pve cant be fun?
My solution is to mix it up. A change is as good as a break. I know not all PVE activities pay the same but EVE online's strength is that there are a great many ways to make isk. Try them all, when you get bored do something else.
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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
252
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Templar Knightsbane wrote:Antaria T'nar wrote:i see problems and no solutions
go on, spin us a mechanic that doesnt get boring the 100th time you do it Sex
Oef... just the thought of that...... Despite the number of female avatar's, 98% of EVE players are drunken neckbeards. Any mechanic that involved sex would be a horrible turn-off
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Six Six Six
Blood and Decay
187
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Onquaber wrote:Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.
You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.
Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.
I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.
Why the pve cant be fun?
If you're finding missions boring, forget about the isk as in that's just a bonus. If the mission (combat) is boring then likelihood is that it's too easy for you, get a higher level mission or use a smaller ship.
Many people do boring stuff with alts to finance their PvP, but the main reason they find it boring is because they would rather be doing PvP.
Any PvE content will become boring after awhile, someone who can play many hours in a day will get bored a lot faster than someone that only plays a few hours a days. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
252
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Templar Knightsbane wrote:Antaria T'nar wrote:i see problems and no solutions
go on, spin us a mechanic that doesnt get boring the 100th time you do it Sex
Oef... just the thought of that...... Despite the number of female avatar's, 98% of EVE players are (often drunken) neckbeards. Any mechanic that involved sex would be a horrible HORRIBLE turn-off
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Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
13
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
How about escourt missions?
protect a transport as it picks up stuff from a base and get it back to the gate and protect it from enemy ships. Yes it would probadly be hated by some people but it is a area that the missions do not cover at present.
Randomising NPCs is a nice idea but I see some problems, randomising ships means randomising loot which could have some negative effect on some item prices. If there is a chance that rare and expensive items are dropped then the prices of those objects are going to fall. Which will annoy the players who make those items.
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Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
463
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Because it was all made in 2003 and hasn't had a complete rebuild since. Image the rage from people if CCP actually tried to fix PVE and make it fun, everyone would complain they're "becoming wow" and that "this is a PVP game". Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
1206
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Have you actually tried to make isk any other way?
sandbox dude.
saaaandbooooooxxxxx Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
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Six Six Six
Blood and Decay
187
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Turelus wrote:Because it was all made in 2003 and hasn't had a complete rebuild since. Image the rage from people if CCP actually tried to fix PVE and make it fun, everyone would complain they're "becoming wow" and that "this is a PVP game".
It is a PvP game it has been as far back as I can remember (2005).
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
772
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Onquaber wrote:Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.
You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.
Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.
I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.
Why the pve cant be fun?
What, specifically, would make pve fun for you?
What now? |
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
791
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Introduce sleeper incursions into k space. Randomize incursion ship types and numbers. Allow incursion rats to attack POSes in k space. Allow sleepers to attack POSes in w space.
You know nothing of the peaceful Sleeper people!
Anyway, the PVE sucks because it's not at all the aspect of the game the developers intended to showcase and emphasize, the emergent, PVP, sandboxy-stuff is. If they start putting a lot of development into PVE, people will start getting the idea that it's the point of the game, when it's not.
It also kind of has to suck so ISK will have value and victory/loss have meaning. When I destroy a Code-violator's mackinaw, I want the thought of grinding to replace it to crush his soul. I don't want him to think: "Oh, goodie! I get to run some more awesome missions in Highsec and maybe strike it rich since the loot tables have all been turned upside down."
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Nometh Xergent
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
569
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Everything can be fun, depends on how you do it. Im not speaking from EVE im speaking from life. :) With great responsibility comes great DPS.-á |
DSpite Culhach
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
124
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Posted - 2013.07.09 09:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Templar Knightsbane wrote:Antaria T'nar wrote:i see problems and no solutions
go on, spin us a mechanic that doesnt get boring the 100th time you do it Sex
Well, in that context, "sex" is a pretty decent Skinners Box - that was not a pun btw - because the reward effect of trying to get your favorite girl - or boy, if that's your thing - into bed is usually worth the amount of work you might have to do.
Running missions is like ... eating Spam because you have no other food available. Will it keep you alive? Sure. Will it get boring fast? Hell yea. After a year of that, anyone offering you a chocolate bar would instantly become your friend.
I once got a Daredevil BPC from from a crappy Hisec Storyline mission and nearly wet my pants, but that was about 8 months of bland rewards. Way too long.
If CCP is of the opinion of "Hisec missions should not pay out more then 50 million an hour" (random number for example) then FINE, but work the RNG so we get a feeling that something is happening. Simply handing out 50 million an hour in similar stuff is just boring, and handing us 200 million after 4 hours of nothing will cause player going into a coma.
IMHO current weird drop mechanics cause "the grind" to feel a lot worse then it actually is. It needs some loving, helped along by player ideas, me thinks. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
487
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Posted - 2013.07.09 10:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's so in any sandbox game.
I think NPC AI, missions, ratting, plexes and so on need a strong improvement.
However what we call PVE content in a sandbox is not there to make the player live some epic history, it's there as a mere in game resource: to provide materials, ISK, items, and to create competion or cooperation (anyway: interactioons) amongst players around it.
A major tract in a sandbox is that contents are created mostly by the palyers and their interactions. More you push toward premade contents more you raise their standards but also more barrier you need to set to limit the freedom to players interactions and their self created contents.
This is why sanbox games tend to keep premade contents and playable storylines as a mere light framework. Was the same in Ultima Online.
I think is not even correct for EVE to talk of PVE as "pure" PVE gameplay as well is not correct to talk of "pure" PVP. Those are only label we use in our common speech, but it's just sandbox gameplay, is not "PVE" nor "PVP".
Btw completing an exploration site when someone in the system is hunting you is not boring at all. What many players don't understand is that if someone enter your "PVE" site to chase them he's not "ruining my gameplay"; he is creating content for them. That can be an unpleaseable/harmfull content, ok. But is still a GAME content.
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DSpite Culhach
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
124
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Posted - 2013.07.09 10:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:
If you're finding missions boring, forget about the isk as in that's just a bonus. If the mission (combat) is boring then likelihood is that it's too easy for you, get a higher level mission or use a smaller ship.
Many people do boring stuff with alts to finance their PvP, but the main reason they find it boring is because they would rather be doing PvP.
Any PvE content will become boring after awhile, someone who can play many hours in a day will get bored a lot faster than someone that only plays a few hours a days.
I was in charge of running the computer store "LAN Party" group for many years. One of the games we played a LOT was Vegas Rainbow 6. Usually TDM multiplayer, then later in the day when people started leaving, coop multiplayer. Years of this never got old, because the AI spawns and pathing varied (barely) enough to catch us with our pants down every so often, in some hilarious way.
EVE Missions don't seem to have any variables of note in missions (other then sometimes your warp in distance changes) so they become repetitive FAR too fast.
Some additional mission parameters - such as when you can kill Scarlet before she gets away, extra timed events, or extra objectives - sprinkled in missions would also go a long way to make us more engaged when we land on grid. Right now all mission runners have a brain script they can run through to finish missions almost blindfolded. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
464
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Posted - 2013.07.09 10:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:Turelus wrote:Because it was all made in 2003 and hasn't had a complete rebuild since. Image the rage from people if CCP actually tried to fix PVE and make it fun, everyone would complain they're "becoming wow" and that "this is a PVP game". It is a PvP game it has been as far back as I can remember (2005). And because of that we can only have mind numbing, repetitive PVE? Because to make changes so you can have fun while you make ISK to PVP would ruin everything? (that's the general line of thought of people) Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Six Six Six
Blood and Decay
187
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Posted - 2013.07.09 10:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:[quote=Six Six Six]
Some additional mission parameters - such as when you can kill Scarlet before she gets away, extra timed events, or extra objectives - sprinkled in missions would also go a long way to make us more engaged when we land on grid. Right now all mission runners have a brain script they can run through to finish missions almost blindfolded.
Problem with this is, people would just not do timed missions if there was a real chance of not being able to complete them. The negative effect on your standing for failing a mission is high.
Going by memory and this was a long time ago, think it took about 8 missions just to get back to where I was before after failing a mission. Of course they may have been dependant on the level of the missions. |
Templar Knightsbane
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2013.07.09 10:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sex > PVE |
Korotani
Aesir Corp. Cha Ching Int.
14
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Posted - 2013.07.09 11:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Players love being able to choose the best missions, skipping drone missions etc.
How about adding a bit more choice into missions like some of the epic arcs? For example:
- Get an offer from the 'Enemy' or another Agent halfway through to tip the mission objectives upside down or go off on another mission completely.
- Two optional objectives within a mission, of which only one can be completed at the expense of the other (Think saving the Amarr instead of the Minmatar in that mission, I can't remember which one that is).
I think adding more optional objectives would be good, as we're all greedy and want to make the most out of the mission. Keeping it optional would also negate any worries of people skipping missions because of the risk.
I would say that to balance this the objectives should have consequences - you have to sacrifice something to gain another, whether that is failing the mission to get phat loot or screwing one agent over to get some great missions with another.
The optional pocket in AE is one example - you sacrifice a diamond tag and risk your shiny shiny ship for the extra bounties locked away behind the gate. Sure it would require loads of work but everything does doesn't it?
[Addendum] What would people think of pirates getting bolder and 'attacking' stations? Think Sansha style raids into systems, but with rats outside stations. The guns have been disabled, there's penalties on facilities within the station and the inhabitants are sending out distress signals. Once you've banded together/solo nuked the rats you get to go and find their staging base within the system. That could just be a normal mission when you think about it. Trust no one.-á |
Alice Saki
Full Spectrum Hairdresser Pirates
70366
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Posted - 2013.07.09 11:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Have you actually tried to make isk any other way?
sandbox dude.
saaaandbooooooxxxxx
I kill idiots in Shiny ships for Isk.
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