Ask them which games that they played before, and ask them what happened to them after they ruined it with very niche ideas?

Rhetoric seen here is seen in EQII and in WoW (especially on the PvP forums) and countless other game forums. Control freaks wanting to control how the game is developed THEIR way. If the game dies, they blame the publishers or some other easy victim -- casuals or PvE players.

Games are a working relationship with devs and players. Devs have their job to do and players offer feedback on their job, as they're paying for a service. When some players want to dictate content, they make the world smaller for everyone, including them. If devs fall for this feedback, they fall victim to the ever constant need for "make my toon better; make me fight harder; make me make gold easier" schemes. Innovation takes a back seat for "mememe" (and you bet the same players tell others they are the "self-entitled").

PvE isn't a problem, it's working as intended. Same as PvP.

The problem is when one group wants to overtake the other group. This was seen in Cata in WoW over raiders vs casuals vs PvPers. 10% of the overall population (even Blizzard came back confirming this) who crowd forums about their only real reason in playing a game, whining about how the game is destroyed because some PvPer got a buff (or vice versa). Meanwhile, casuals are looking for means to play the game without 15hr raid nights 7 days a week. PvPers are groaning because they can't pewpewpew healers (who are designed to heal) and decided to go James mode with Healers Have to Die addons. Then wonder where all the healers went, because being the #1 target isn't fun...and now THEY are dying like flies.

...Yeah, seen this stuff a-l-l before...

Focus should always on giving players the tools and freedom to create the content.

Missions, mining, and other activities in null and low sec is still PvP.

When it takes designers and engineers away from developing PvP content.

When players demand that it be "balanced" and offer similar rewards to PvP.

Go look at PvP in WoW and ask that question again. Except you will already know the answer.

EVE is a PvP game. If you want PvE content go play a PvE game or one of the watered-down mainstream PvE/PvP hybrids of which there are many.

Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.

You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.

Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.

I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.

Why the pve cant be fun?

The PVe is bad because the PVP is good.

But exploration can be exciting nonetheless when you don't know what to expect.


PVP by itself can pay off depending on two things:

1. How expensive you fly.
2. Whether or not you suffer from stupid ship loss syndrome.



First, if you don't fly super expensive, a little ISK can go a long way. If you run say 1 level 4 mission, that can amount to 5 or 6 destroyers fit to to tune of 5-6M ISK each. If you just have to have all T2 "everything" with T2 Rigs and/or faction/pirate hulls, that's going to cost you. I see a lot of people getting into the "bigger gun" trap.

Second, how do you lose ships? I have seen a lot of people complain about losing ships in PVP a lot, even in fleet, then having to grind ISK to finance the PVP. While it's said that you should never fly what you cannot replace (see item 1 for the caveat), how often do you have to replace? If you find yourself in constant attrition warfare where ship loss is the outcome just about every time, you have to rethink how you fly or who you are flying for (and if they have at least a T1 ship replacement program).

For example, when a crazy group of highsec carebears decided to start roaming in nullsec, I supplied them with a large number of T1 frigates and destroyers expecting them to die a lot.

Die they did, for a few weeks, but as their skills and actual experience increased, and as they developed tactics for more staying power (not jumping into being outnumbered and a better feel of when to run off) , they stopped losing ships. As a result, there are still scores of these T1 hulls laying around.

Another example I can give is, how on one day I came across a faction frigate wreck in nullsec that had a deadspace module that was worth 30 million ISK. That's roughly what one may get from one of the mid-level L4 missions. As I mentioned before, if I had to fly "T2 everything" down to the rigs, this lucky find would be a drop in the bucket. Most T2 frigate hulls cost less than that 30M ISK module.

Exploration is probably the best way to finance PVP. Lots of nullsec is empty, even lowsec too. If you want to spank and gank but don't want to grind for it, bring some core probes on your roam and give a little check of the system when you find an empty one. You might hit a site and pull in 10s of millions of ISK in less than half an hour. If you don't fly too expensive and are good at keeping ships alive, you could probably finance PVP with one good exploration find a week.

By its nature, the PvE content wears thin while the PvP does not. And PvE in Eve is limited in that it must be done in spaceships. Hard to tell immersive stories about spaceships.

i rather play some indie games than CCP antibot exploration minigame.

as you said some people do PVE just to fund their PVP.

Maybe it is not ment to be forever grinding game after all, personally i think EVE is more social game than anything else.

I think it is just good that PVE is boring so it is punishment for you to lose too much ships.

A true hardcore PVP game. Thats all.

I challange anyone to name an MMO with PVE that stays fun and challanging after several years.

Simply remove PvE because as game design, it expired a long time ago. Bonus: We also get rid of scrubs who want the "WoW" experience and feel entitled to it because that is what WoW have.

Nope they're PvP activities, you compete with other players for sales, manufacturing slots etc.

Everquest 1

You know nothing of the peaceful Sleeper people!

Anyway, the PVE sucks because it's not at all the aspect of the game the developers intended to showcase and emphasize, the emergent, PVP, sandboxy-stuff is. If they start putting a lot of development into PVE, people will start getting the idea that it's the point of the game, when it's not.

It also kind of has to suck so ISK will have value and victory/loss have meaning. When I destroy a Code-violator's mackinaw, I want the thought of grinding to replace it to crush his soul. I don't want him to think: "Oh, goodie! I get to run some more awesome missions in Highsec and maybe strike it rich since the loot tables have all been turned upside down."

but you will hardly be able to do that without someone mining.

Its still alive?

The next idea is one about player vs player missions. This would be in essence an arena

Objectives like - Defend this structure for as long as you can

Sounds like you want sov warfare, but without the inconvenient part where people bring in more people than you

Sounds like you want sov warfare, but without the inconvenient part where people bring in more people than you