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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 03:43:00 -
[91] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:Actually it's so popular Popular Gëá important.
Yeah, like WoW is so unimportant that all of gaming ignores that game, right?
It's important because it's popular, so popular to be the trendsetter for MMOs. 
Spin that, Tippia. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15428
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Posted - 2013.07.10 03:54:00 -
[92] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Yeah, like WoW WoW is not a game mechanic in EVE. PvE, on the other hand, is and it's not a particularly important one on the scale of things since its purpose is limited and fairly easy to replace. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Q 5
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 04:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
Onquaber wrote:Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.
You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.
Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.
I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.
Why the pve cant be fun?
Fun is a relative term, I enjoy myself so do many others here.
If there wasn't a grind to get things then what suggestions do you have?
Pay RL money to get things?
Adding content takes time, money, programmers, resources and to which adding it to the game (coding) so it works right. there is a section just for a guy like you it's in the forums here, use it. |

Setaceous
Nexus Prima
175
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 04:18:00 -
[94] - Quote
Tippia wrote:PvE in EVE is bad because it's a small and rather unimportant part of the game, so it's not particularly worth putting a lot of effort into. It's more of an afterthought than anything, really. Plus it captures the perfect grinding wheel aspect that's cleverly hidden in most MMOs - You want to get better stuff so you can get better stuff to get better stuff...... |

Esteban Dragonovic
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 05:07:00 -
[95] - Quote
No better content generators than players, turn PvE into PvP.
Have the missions set up in a way that 2 pilots are given missions with winning conditions conflicting one another's goals, similar in a fashion to APB for anyone who may have played that (one of the few good ideas in that terrible game). Ideally, missions would also be randomly generated and dynamic to further mix things up. How to implement this however, I've got no clue. And I doubt all the mission runners out there would be very sympathetic to such changes. You could probably up the reward payout to compensate, but I doubt it would make it that far before a mass ragequit of mission bears, and CCP would certainly not like the chances one would have to roll with that.
God forbid there be competition. |

Robert Saint
Playright
80
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 05:26:00 -
[96] - Quote
I think it's just a matter of changing your expectations.
To me "PVE" is sort of like Solitaire "the card game".. something that you can just chill and play to try and beat your score!
Only with EVE you get to try with different ships, etc..
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ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
193

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Posted - 2013.07.10 05:52:00 -
[97] - Quote
Ok, lets try to keep this thread on topic and respectfull of other players opinions. Trolling is NOT allowed in any section of the Eve Forums.
I do like some of the ideas presented here to randomize the PVE content more. ISD Gallifreyan Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) Interstellar Services Department |
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OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 06:54:00 -
[98] - Quote
No Mad. No Sh*t. No Fun. |

Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
174
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 07:17:00 -
[99] - Quote
The main problem here is that folks get into a PvP vs PvE mindset, where they should be looking more at pulling the two together.
PvE can be damned boring if you sit in high sec all day sucking on rocks or churning out the same old missions all day. I know, Max has done enough of both of them.
But now, while I would never call Max a PvPer, he is definatly the Industrial type. But you will find him more often as not either deep in null sec looking for T2 rig mats, and other goodies. or in a WH digging out some ABC to provide the high end minerals he needs for building. And take it from me, that is far from boring, you have to be on the ball all of the time. Because if anybody does catch me, I am toast and probably paying for a new medical clone, as well as fitting out a new ship.
We have all gotten into this habit of thinking High Sec vs Low Sec vs Null/WH, and PvP vs PvE. The fact is, to get the most out of Eve, you have to be able to slip between all of the different parts. |

Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
435
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 08:35:00 -
[100] - Quote
Simply remove PvE because as game design, it expired a long time ago. Bonus: We also get rid of scrubs who want the "WoW" experience and feel entitled to it because that is what WoW have. I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more. |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
394
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:31:00 -
[101] - Quote
Onyx Nyx wrote:Simply remove PvE because as game design, it expired a long time ago. Bonus: We also get rid of scrubs who want the "WoW" experience and feel entitled to it because that is what WoW have.
The above is an example why mouth breathers should never dictate how a game "should" be played, as they don't understand even the basics of MMO design.
No PvE, EvE dies. Pure and simple.
When WoW did their inhouse study of it's players (you know the largest pool in MMOs without counting alt accounts as people? You know EvE players, too?) 20% was playing solo as a choice. That's on par with other group oriented games.
CCP loses 20% of it's player base, put a fork in EvE it's over. EvE operates in a manner losing that many the game can't profit. Without a profit, games can't exist.
So, no, ending PvE isn't going to happen. SWG:NGE is an example what a game turns into when the market and crafting goes bye bye...it dies on the vine.
If EvE was more PvE friendly, it wouldn't be sitting at 500k players today and over half are alt accounts.  "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9979
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:40:00 -
[102] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:If EvE was more PvE friendly, it wouldn't be sitting at 500k players today and over half are alt accounts.  Citation needed.
Average player count online at any one time is circa 7-10% of subs, are you telling us that 50% of those numbers are alts?
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |

Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
170
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:01:00 -
[103] - Quote
If EvE had better PvE it would likely have more players based on comparison of other games which have both PvP and PvE servers. The PvE only servers were usually around 3 to 10 times more populated.
If EvE had only PvP I dont think it would have survived at all. Also fyi trading manufacturering is also a PvE activity. Environment does not only mean NPC. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
9989
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:10:00 -
[104] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: If EvE had only PvP I dont think it would have survived at all. Also fyi trading manufacturering is also a PvE activity. Environment does not only mean NPC.
Nope they're PvP activities, you compete with other players for sales, manufacturing slots etc.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |

Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
170
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: If EvE had only PvP I dont think it would have survived at all. Also fyi trading manufacturering is also a PvE activity. Environment does not only mean NPC.
Nope they're PvP activities, you compete with other players for sales, manufacturing slots etc. lol if you want to try that logic than npcing / missions is PvP, you compete with other players for isk generation / module drops. PvP is player v player combat or subtefuge anything else is stretching definitions with stupid. |

Bryla Jax
AeD Corp
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:17:00 -
[106] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:If EvE was more PvE friendly, it wouldn't be sitting at 500k players today and over half are alt accounts.  Citation needed. Average player count online at any one time is circa 7-10% of subs, are you telling us that 50% of those numbers are alts?
I don't think 50%, but , imho, close to 33% of online account. BTW only CCP can give a valid response to user/account ratio, so the percentage that anyone else can give is just a guess. CCP have no interest to let you know the real number of active user.
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Jonny Monroe
Unlicensed Medical Professionals
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:If EvE had better PvE it would likely have more players based on comparison of other games which have both PvP and PvE servers. The PvE only servers were usually around 3 to 10 times more populated.
If EvE had only PvP I dont think it would have survived at all. Also fyi trading manufacturering is also a PvE activity. Environment does not only mean NPC.
It's difficult to make this comparison. What you're doing is comparing a game with PVE and PVP servers to a game with PVE and PVP activities on the same server, IE a game that has segregated players and rulesets versus one that tries with mixed results to encompass both player types under one ruleset. To really get into understanding what would happen, you need to understand why people PvE. For many, it's because it's safe. Safety is more relaxing. when you work 9-10+ hours a day you don't want your leisure time to be high stress, worrying about what you're risking or whether the gains from tonight's activities will cover your expenses, whether someone will decide to ruin your day, etc. PvE is frequently a area of games that exist for relaxation. This rule can actually make PVP relaxing too; DUST can be more relaxing because death in dust is pretty meaningless and death recovery is near instant. Death in EVE can mean you aren't playing anymore for the evening since you have to go fit out a new ship, which will take a while. Not to mention recovering the cost of the lost ship. As for PvE being safe, well... nothing in EVE is safe. Personally, I advocate 'hi-sec' being renamed something like 'sub-capital space', that way it's less misleading for new players. Tricking casual, solo and/or PvE friendly players into thinking there is a place for them in New Eden is either a cunning business decision or a terrible mistake.
Someone above said that 20% of MMO gamers prefer solo. That's numbers culled from WOW's metrics and demographics. WoW has a much, much lower barrier to entry for group play. In EVE I suspect the barrier for entry for group play either pushes that number higher, or pushes those 20% of players out of the game. |

Dain Highwind
La Isla del Mono
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:33:00 -
[108] - Quote
Because grinding hundreds of boars and sheeps is funnier, isnt it? |

Jonah Gravenstein
Balius and Xanthus Traditional Gunsmiths
10001
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:36:00 -
[109] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: If EvE had only PvP I dont think it would have survived at all. Also fyi trading manufacturering is also a PvE activity. Environment does not only mean NPC.
Nope they're PvP activities, you compete with other players for sales, manufacturing slots etc. lol if you want to try that logic than npcing / missions is PvP, you compete with other players for isk generation / module drops. PvP is player v player combat or subtefuge anything else is stretching definitions with stupid. Trading is definitely PvP, your contracts, and buy/ sell orders directly compete with other peoples contracts and buy/ sell orders, the same can be said for any player manufactured item that is sold via contracts or the market. In short if you are directly competing with another player it is PvP.
PvP is not limited to shooting other peoples space ships, it is any instance where you are directly competing with another player for a reward, that reward can be isk, loot drops, rage in local or hate mail.
All of the PvE content in Eve is there to fuel PvP, missions give isk and LP as a reward, mission runners buy stuff made by players from the market and contracts, or change their LP into items that can either be for their own use or sold in the same manner. Miners compete for Ice and minerals then either sell the refined products in direct competition with other players, or use them to manufacture other items that are sold via the market or contracts. Any items that are kept for personal use deprives another player of a potential sale, so that is also technically PvP.
2 can play the logical conclusion game.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." |

Jonny Monroe
Unlicensed Medical Professionals
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 10:47:00 -
[110] - Quote
Dain Highwind wrote:Because grinding hundreds of boars and sheeps is funnier, isnt it?
It's the gaming equivalent of binaural beats. It's zen. You don't have to think about it, you don't have to worry about the consequences, your mind fills that blank in the same way your senses fill blanks under sensory deprivation. |

Lugalbandak
Anunnaku Industrial Corp. Northern Associates.
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 12:54:00 -
[111] - Quote
Have tried sometimes other mmo , but pve overthere was even mor boring as eve cause there was no danger to it.
In eve you can atleast get ganked everywhere
so , please point me a mmo where the pve is thrilling. |

Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
438
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 14:17:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Onyx Nyx wrote:Simply remove PvE because as game design, it expired a long time ago. Bonus: We also get rid of scrubs who want the "WoW" experience and feel entitled to it because that is what WoW have. The above is an example why mouth breathers should never dictate how a game "should" be played, as they don't understand even the basics of MMO design. No PvE, EvE dies. Pure and simple. When WoW did their inhouse study of it's players (you know the largest pool in MMOs without counting alt accounts as people? You know EvE players, too?) 20% was playing solo as a choice. That's on par with other group oriented games. CCP loses 20% of it's player base, put a fork in EvE it's over. EvE operates in a manner losing that many the game can't profit. Without a profit, games can't exist. So, no, ending PvE isn't going to happen. SWG :NGE is an example what a game turns into when the market and crafting goes bye bye...it dies on the vine.If EvE was more PvE friendly, it wouldn't be sitting at 500k players today and over half are alt accounts. 
And your post is proof why a self-professed "analyst" who is making far too many assumptions, such as yourself, should really just shut up. No, seriously, you should. Pure and simple.
Incarna was the tipping point for many that cost CCP a substantial number of players because CCP adopted this "18 month" plan where they would not focus on fixing problems, like broken mechanics, and some of them had been around for years. So not only did the "18 month plan" and negligence of problems at hand cost CCP revenue but they also had to axe 20% of their work force.
It was so bad that the CSM had to be flown out to Iceland for a emergency meeting.
Incarna was shelved and CCP began focusing on the game because CCP realized and contrary to a statement made by CCP Oveur, polish DO sell better than new features. So here we are, over 500K subs and EVE is doing better than ever while in the meantime, WoW is hemorrhaging subscribers because of stagnation, developer hubris, broken economy and whatnot. I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more. |

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
56
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 15:56:00 -
[113] - Quote
Onyx Nyx wrote:And your post is proof why a self-professed "analyst" who is making far too many assumptions, such as yourself, should really just shut up. No, seriously, you should. Pure and simple. Incarna was the tipping point for many that cost CCP a substantial number of players because CCP adopted this "18 month" plan where they would not focus on fixing problems, like broken mechanics, and some of them had been around for years. So not only did the "18 month plan" and negligence of problems at hand cost CCP revenue but they also had to axe 20% of their work force. It was so bad that the CSM had to be flown out to Iceland for a emergency meeting. Incarna was shelved and CCP began focusing on the game because CCP realized and contrary to a statement made by CCP Oveur, polish DO sell better than new features. So here we are, over 500K subs and EVE is doing better than ever while in the meantime, WoW is hemorrhaging subscribers because of stagnation, developer hubris, broken economy and whatnot.
CCP is doing so good they go on a hiring spree and hire youtube girls and pay2win weasels. Check yourself before you wreck yourself with such rants brah, its empty-minded crybabies like you that are stagnating EVE and holding it back from becoming a rich universe with that "internet spaceships" shiet. Wait and see the next space sci-fi mmo come out like Star Citizen and u'll see where your those 500k subs go. |

Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
178
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
Onquaber wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Onquaber wrote:Mining, missions, anomalies, all boring activities. I didn't any incursions yet but they seem like more difficult missions and always the same.
You will say its a pvp game, ok. If no one mines, do missions or kill rats there will be no economy so no pvp.
Many people do the boring stuff to finance their pvp.
I've tried FW and it was fun, a pve/pvp mix. But there should be more things to do in high low and null sec.
Why the pve cant be fun?
What, specifically, would make pve fun for you? I was thinking a revamp of the actual npc convoys in High Sec. They Should move through the system (new places), not only stations. You as a pirate could attack them and take their loot, and other pilot side with the npc corporation and protect them. Something like Factional Warfare but in High Sec. A new type of site could be a non pirate station with npc rats defending it. You could go and blow the station and get their loot, and maybe a pirate npc corporation could pay you isk for doing such activities. The missions should be less scripted, more dynamic and random. The new behavior of the rats (switch targets) is a very good start.
This was actually going to be a game feature. On release there was a whole batch of skills for convoy management, though they were dropped about a year later. The idea being that the convoys would be a source of PvP with one side defending and obviously open to all comers. I am guessing that CCP never managed to balance things out to make it work. Shame, as it could have been something that broke down the PvE - PvP division |

Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
178
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:27:00 -
[115] - Quote
Esteban Dragonovic wrote:No better content generators than players, turn PvE into PvP.
Have the missions set up in a way that 2 pilots are given missions with winning conditions conflicting one another's goals, similar in a fashion to APB for anyone who may have played that (one of the few good ideas in that terrible game). Ideally, missions would also be randomly generated and dynamic to further mix things up. How to implement this however, I've got no clue. And I doubt all the mission runners out there would be very sympathetic to such changes. You could probably up the reward payout to compensate, but I doubt it would make it that far before a mass ragequit of mission bears, and CCP would certainly not like the chances one would have to roll with that.
God forbid there be competition.
I never thought I would see the day I agreed with a member of the Goon movement , but this is something that I have been advocating for awhile.
CCP went part of the way with faction warfare, but it should be expanded further.
Example: Amarr player character gets a mission to defend a slave pen in a certain system. Minmatar player character gets a mission to take down a slave pen in a certain system.
Winner takes all.
Obviously it will not be that easy, there would need to be some ballancing issues and the like. But it would certainly be something to help break down the division between PvP and PvE |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15431
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:42:00 -
[116] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:If EvE had only PvP I dont think it would have survived at all. Also fyi trading manufacturering is also a PvE activity. Environment does not only mean NPC. Nope they're PvP activities, you compete with other players for sales, manufacturing slots etc. lol if you want to try that logic than npcing / missions is PvP, you compete with other players for isk generation / module drops. The looting part of missions is certainly PvP, as is the hunt for rats. At no point during those activities does the environment offer any opposition GÇö it's all about beating other players.
Trading is not PvE for the simple reason that all your trades are with other players GÇö player vs. player GÇö and there is no GÇ£environmentGÇ¥ (i.e. NPC) at the other end. Hell, even when you are trading with NPCs, other player's activities alter the prices you get.
Manufacturing is, once again, completely devoid of environmental obstacles GÇö it's all about beating other players; it's all PvP.
Quote:PvP is player v player combat or subtefuge anything else is stretching definitions with stupid. You were so close, and then you ruined it. PvP is player vs. player. That is all. Anything else adds arbitrary and contradictory restrictions to what the term actually means. Whether it's combat or subterfuge or competition or just mudslinging doesn't matter GÇö all that matters is that there's a player at the other end providing the opposing party in the interaction.
So yes, EVE pretty much only has PvP, and it has survived just fine. The PvE bits are only there to inject ISK, and as the ISK spawning mechanics show, this could be handled through PvP as well.
Ace Uoweme wrote:No PvE, EvE dies. Pure and simple. Not really, no. No PvE, and EVE needs a tiny tweak to one of its faucets to compensate for the loss of ISK inflow (whereas no PvP would mean the game would have to be completely redesigned from the ground up). Again, PvE is a fairly small and unimportant part of the game. It only really has that one, fairly easily replaced purpose. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
397
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:50:00 -
[117] - Quote
Onyx Nyx wrote:And your post is proof why a self-professed "analyst" who is making far too many assumptions, such as yourself, should really just shut up. No, seriously, you should. Pure and simple.
Or a jealous post sniper. Pure and simple.
Onyx Nyx wrote:Incarna was the tipping point for many that cost CCP a substantial number of players because CCP adopted this "18 month" plan where they would not focus on fixing problems, like broken mechanics, and some of them had been around for years. So not only did the "18 month plan" and negligence of problems at hand cost CCP revenue but they also had to axe 20% of their work force.
How many quit? Like 1.7 million in WoW over Cata?
Over 3x more of ALL OF EVE quit WoW in protest.
They didn't need to stage 12 year-old antics for Blizzard to "get the message".
Wise up. Get out and play more games. There's protests almost every day in them, for the same issues...without having a heart attack over it. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
397
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:53:00 -
[118] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The looting part of missions is certainly PvP, as is the hunt for rats.
  
Tippia, been in the liquor cabinet of late?
That's pure PvE -- fighting NPCs, looting from NPCs. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15431
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:55:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:That's pure PvE -- fighting NPCs, looting from NPCs. Where does the opposition come from when you're looting? And note that I said hunt for, not fight. Where does the opposition come from when you hunt for rats?
If you say GÇ£the environmentGÇ¥, I'm afraid I have to inform you that you need to learn the difference between pluses and boxes on the overviewGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
397
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 17:06:00 -
[120] - Quote
Tippia wrote:]Where does the opposition come from when you're looting? And note that I said hunt for, not fight. Where does the opposition come from when you hunt for rats?
Tippia, you're doing it again, trying to define something already defined and well known in gaming.
PvE is player verse environment = interacting and fighting NPCs.
Not players itself (which is PvP).
When I'm questing in WoW it's pure PvE. Now if Horde (a player faction in WoW) comes in and wants to cause ruckus with Alliance (another player faction), then once they're flagged, it becomes a PvP situation. 
Killing rats = PvE.
Killing players = PvP.
Mechanics in killing them is independent of either play style. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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