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RMR Font: Is there really no better font out there?

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Longasc	Posted - 2005.12.11 18:52:00 - [1] Hello! I fear it might get lost because of many major changes in RMR, still I am concerned: RMR's Font is ugly. If it will be introduced, I hope they will give people the option to download the old font optionally. Or to change it in options. Finally, I do not get it what the reason for this is. The font is badly readable on my Notebook TFT, Standard TFT and a 19" CRT monitor, regardless of high or low resolution. I wish they would use a better font for RMR, this font reminds me too much of the font that caused a turmoil on Tranquility some time ago.
Rigsta	Posted - 2005.12.11 19:37:00 - [2] It's the same one that was on a while ago I beleive. And yes it's horrible but I'm not sure if they're going to use it on TQ. Hopefully not, considering the complaints last time. ----------------------------------------------- My Ideas: Drones wish list <-- 2 years old :O
Rigsta	Posted - 2005.12.11 19:37:00 - [3] It's the same one that was on a while ago I beleive. And yes it's horrible but I'm not sure if they're going to use it on TQ. Hopefully not, considering the complaints last time. ----------------------------------------------- My Ideas: Drones wish list <-- 2 years old :O
Scyrdein	Posted - 2005.12.11 21:48:00 - [4] Same **** ;( And what is the most worst thing, that we don`t have any official comments about that. We pay for that game so why should we use that ugly fonts.
Lacero Callrisian	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:49:00 - [5] You can change the font yourself if you want to. it's inside the eve directory, just rename a font you like to the same and copy it over.
Gothikia	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:58:00 - [6] That dosn't work anymore with the changes they've done to the damn thing, tried it already, lol.
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:32:00 - [7] Argued this point on Sisi a few days back with Oveur. the font is being kept, apparently. it's supposedly just peachy if you use 800x1024 resolution monitors..... Send in as bug reports. state that it's unreadable, explain the problems with it. state what monitor and res you run eve at too. cos the only way we can get it through to the artists and graphic designers that it's unreadable is if we all say this.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.12 02:43:00 - [8] Edited by: j0sephine on 12/12/2005 02:45:31 "it's supposedly just peachy* if you use 800x1024 resolution monitors..... "* ... Wtf kind of argument that is. Why does the game even offer to run at different resolutions then, if there's apprently only one "right" choice as long as one wants to actually see what's written on screen :/ "Send in as bug reports. state that it's unreadable, explain the problems with it. state what monitor and res you run eve at too." Did that right when this typographic disaster hit the test server... as far as i can see, it's being cheerfully ignored since then. Guess because "it's just peachy" at the 1k resolution... --;; oh well. Forum will be as funny as they were right after Exodus patch deployment, if it actually gets to see release. :s
Longasc	Posted - 2005.12.12 06:36:00 - [9] On a sidenote, my Desktop TFT has of course the usual 1280x800 and the font is not peachy. We know that EVE has gorgeous graphics in space, but the artists that created them must have left CCP ages ago, as all knew ships are basically re-skins only. * Why do they want to destroy their beautiful graphics art with such a font? * Was this very font not already rejected some time ago? * Why must they change the current font at all? Is it not pretty enough? Is it hard readable at higher resolutions? Well, if this were the reasons, the new font is even uglier and harder to read even at the supposed favorite resolution (1280x800) of the EVE designers... Besides that, 1024x768 and other resolutions are still PRETTY common. They need either: - multiple fonts to chose from - user-customizable font OR ... why not keep the current font? It would be a great letdown if I would have to experience all the great new RMR features with Eye strain, and CCP can be sure that this will greatly overshadow the enthusiasm about RMR. They had to do an emergency patch after the last font disaster, and now this???
Scetrov	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Longasc We know that EVE has gorgeous graphics in space, but the artists that created them must have left CCP ages ago, as all knew ships are basically re-skins only. * Why do they want to destroy their beautiful graphics art with such a font? New ships are NOT re-skins, each race has three new capital ships on SiSi thats 12 new models for a start. Recent new ships that are already on TQ are Freighters, Dreads and Battlecruisers thats another 12 models. Originally by: Longasc * Was this very font not already rejected some time ago? No this is a different font, there was a new font in a previous patch, however it was patched out again a couple of days later. This is an all new font! Originally by: Longasc * Why must they change the current font at all? Because the old font did not support UNICODE, UNICODE support is required to take EVE forward, without it EVE can't even hope to support the languages covered by the new emerging markets.
Lucre	Posted - 2005.12.12 11:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Longasc RMR's Font is ugly. Seconded. Thirded. Umteenthded, whatever. Every time I log back into TQ it's such a relief to have a decent font again. And every time I log into Sisi my heart sinks and my eyes ache. People will not care whether it's unicode compliant or whatever, they just want a font they can easily and comfortably read. And this one is neither. Please please please FIND A BETTER ONE. That or be prepared for a lot of people less polite and patient than us complaining about it after release!
griff1972	Posted - 2005.12.12 11:42:00 - [12] it would be nice if they used proper spacing fonts for the bio we could do ascci picture in our bio's
Audrea	Posted - 2005.12.12 12:09:00 - [13] Hmm.. I find the new font easy to read and big enough on my laptop screen (15.1" XGA, 1024x768). However, there is one place where I prefer the old font: while in space, the top let corner where it says system name - there its unreadable sometimes. Except that the new font is fine.. you wont find me among the frustrated users this time :)
Wukwuk	Posted - 2005.12.12 12:59:00 - [14] I play at 1600x1200 and it's pretty much unreadable in chat and overview. Numbers are especially bad.
McCarbon	Posted - 2005.12.12 14:37:00 - [15] The difference between B/8 and 5/S is minimal, there is not difference at all between O and 0. Very frustrating if you're trying to look up info on a system that you think is named 5-UBA4 but turns out to be S-U8A4. A slightly better characterspacing/kerning would make it a bit more readable, but that doesn't change the fact that it's just doesn't look pretty at small sizes.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.12 15:04:00 - [16] "The difference between B/8 and 5/S is minimal, there is not difference at all between O and 0." there's quite a few of these things, that make you feel like you're playing 'spot the difference' or something... QO0D <-- q has one extra pixel in bottom right corner. D has two extra pixels in corners on the left side. Il <- l is one pixel taller. ... but i think the main issue is, the new font uses very narrow spacing between letters, combined with 'blocky' style -- letters composed mostly of straight lines, with very small angled corners, if any. Combine these two factors, add the lack of serifs ... and you get something what, when your eyes skim over text, resembles extremely long bar code rather than writing. Which goes against the way people are used to read -- you get the overall shape of letters using your eyes, and let the brain figure out on the fly the actual meaning that makes sense. But the font shape RMR uses forces you to stop and ponder about every second letter. Is there an extra pixel here that makes it Q rather than O? does this string of \|\|\|\|\| translate into "mn" or rather "nm"? This requires constant, high focus while reading which is something that well designed text saves you... because it's tiring when it doesn't have to be. :/
LNX Flocki	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:18:00 - [17] you can increase spacing of the font in the esc menu. i set mine to 0.7 and now text is perfectly readable on 1280x1024. by default spacing is very narrow, probably more suited for 800x600 screens. an option to increase the actual size of the font would still be nice though, especially visually impaired people will have a very hard time deciphering the new font.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:23:00 - [18] Edited by: j0sephine on 12/12/2005 16:23:53 "you can increase spacing of the font in the esc menu. i set mine to 0.7 and now text is perfectly readable on 1280x1024. by default spacing is very narrow, probably more suited for 800x600 screens." This is no longer option in the latest build. There's now three choices: narrow, regular and wide. Regular is what it looks by default, narrow is half the width and wide is twice as wide... but all choices retain the 1 pixel spacing between letters, from what i can see. And really, if i have to make the font wider than what's on TQ so i can read it, meaning i can have less information on screen at once... then it's not change for better or not even maintaining what the game had, is it :/
LNX Flocki	Posted - 2005.12.12 16:27:00 - [19] Originally by: j0sephine And really, if i have to make the font wider than what's on TQ so i can read it, meaning i can have less information on screen at once... then it's not change for better or not even maintaining what the game had, is it :/ too true. i'm all for new stuff as long as they provide sane defaults that work for most people and enough customizing options that works for the rest.
REALITY X	Posted - 2005.12.12 21:23:00 - [20] New font is terrible and hard on the eyes... At times, its very hard to read small numbers and letters with this font, especially when they are bunched together (ie. 88.1345834787%)...
Wrayth Osu	Posted - 2005.12.13 20:42:00 - [21] Okay, I can understand the need to move to a UNICODE font, but this current font is awful. And it doesn't even address one of the biggest issues they should really address and that's being able to tell the difference between zeros'a and oh's
Chrystyan	Posted - 2005.12.13 20:59:00 - [22] I like the new font.
Inspiration	Posted - 2005.12.13 21:35:00 - [23] As I stated before somewhere, the font is a real shame. Especialy if this is the work from professional graphics artisis and/or user interface designers. Even for people with perfect sight this font is like reading barcodes, the spacing between vertical lines making up the letters is virtualy non-existent. It's as if the designers wanted to put as much text on the screen as possible, so quanity prevailed over quality. Realy we don't need more text in mission breefings and such (we need less, clearly stated, readable directives). More text doesn't add to the game experience (it just annoys people). The only thing that was missing in the old font was fixed with numbers, instead of proportinal ones. It is best practice for even proportional fonts to have fixed with numbers. This is to make columns of numbers readable, something the current font is lacking and it shows up frequenly in the market overview. It makes it easy to make mistakes, especialy with every editor in the game being full of bugs as well. Instead of spening development time on a awful and unreadable font and making up extremely long textual stories that no one is prepared to read in such a font, ain't it time to just fix what is broken? As this font reaches release, all hell breaks loose on forums again. This time is no different then last time, and I seen no good arguments as to why we need this new font. Check out my Shield/Armor resistance calculator.
Mitram	Posted - 2005.12.13 23:22:00 - [24] They already improved the font a lot but its still quite unreadable. The new menu font sucks a lot. The TQ font is definitly way better than the RMR font and I don't see how they can improve the RMR font short of replacing it. The character set is just not useful for low contrast TFT/CRT's. I suggest that the Developers set this font in their internet browser and try it for several days. The new font width option cEVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
Mitram	Posted - 2005.12.13 23:22:00 - [25] They already improved the font a lot but its still quite unreadable. The new menu font sucks a lot. The TQ font is definitly way better than the RMR font and I don't see how they can improve the RMR font short of replacing it. The character set is just not useful for low contrast TFT/CRT's. I suggest that the Developers set this font in their internet browser and try it for several days. The new font width option could be also made available with the TQ font. There are many places where the new font with different font width don't fit into the text boxes. E.g. the "g" is cut regulary. Also there are some texts that actually depends on the font width as if they just used spaces to print the text at the right position. E.g. in General Setting "Auto lock Targets". Just change the font width and see.
Spacefold	Posted - 2005.12.13 23:41:00 - [26] Putting the font back to the RMR one after taking it off TQ = win. I loved it for the short time it was on TQ before and am very happy with this coming back. Thanks CCP (hopefully it stays)
Aeaus	Posted - 2005.12.14 01:25:00 - [27] Make it verdana, please, please, please, please, please. !
Vorgus	Posted - 2005.12.14 02:46:00 - [28] Ive had a hard time making out chars in text for some time. but this new crap has to go. not only is it harder to make out, but it's so damn dim it's just plain hard to see. It blends in to the background even when the background is BLACK! Forget the bug report system. They have ignored us sofar. If it makes it live, use the petition system because if you can't read the text, how are you suposed to play the game? Another thing they need to think about is EYE DAMAGE DUE TO EYE STRAIN. There are very real health risk from poorly selected fonts/colors. If we can select the background color and other colors, why the hell can't we select color of text? And did anyone notice that what font option they have dosn't seem to work? You can pick between 10 and 12 point font, But I don't see any difference.
Elriond	Posted - 2005.12.14 05:50:00 - [29] actually i agree with you guys on this. i use a 1280x1024 screen size and my eyes hurt just after a few minutes of trying to read numbers. i played around with the few font options there were but the only thing that really helped was the wide option. straining to read the font is a major turn off for the new patch and im looking forward to the new toys. cant there be an option to switch between the old and the new or something.
Jalia Kovac	Posted - 2005.12.14 08:05:00 - [30] I also think the new font is horrible. Many of the in-space messages are illegible on my monitor. What is with the constant necessity to mess about with it anyway? I'm guessing the current TQ one isn't "spacey" enough or something. It works. Why try to fix it? ► ► Placid Reborn Headquarters ◄ ◄

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