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Jump Freighters are 100% invulnerable in lowsec and need a nerf

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Ellendras Silver No Self Esteem ShAdOw PoLiTiCs 71	Posted - 2013.07.29 22:53:00 - [31] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: Of course you're virtually unkillable if you make no mistakes. That's true no matter what you do. If you're running missions or exploration complexes and drop cans at the acceleration gate warpin and watch dscan/local vigorously, there is no way that anyone is ever going to successfully gank you. Traveling through lowsec is 100% safe if you fly in a covert ops or use a scout (scout can be in something like a noobship) Mining in lowsec even is 100% safe if you stay prealigned and ready to warp as soon as anything shows up on overview. The point is that everyone is human and eventually makes mistakes, and then you can kill them. dont be silly if you fly with any normal ship your chance to get cought and die is never ever 0% in case of JFs it is if performed well.
Voith Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 140	Posted - 2013.07.30 00:28:00 - [32] - Quote Goon Wiki: As of today, Assault frigates are considered to be largely useless for both PVE and PVP. The reasons are detailed below.
Doed Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est 22	Posted - 2013.07.30 05:56:00 - [33] - Quote Oh noes, you can't freekill 7B loot pinatas in lowsec ! what a disaster! go away.
Frank Pannon Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2013.07.30 07:13:00 - [34] - Quote OP I read your thoughts, but all I could hear was: waaaah-waaaah-waaaaaaah Check eve-kill for hisec/lowsec JF kills. There is no 100% safety.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 464	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:13:00 - [35] - Quote While they are NOT invulnerable. Jump freighters damaged a lot the opportunities for a lot of fun operations and counter operations in the game. I think a MINOR, but effective nerf would maybe to make impossible to jump FROM high sec, so you need to jump into a low sec system to do it, actually creating some minor risk. Also all cyno jumping, on my eyes, should have a charge up time, just like micro jump drives. ENough so that you can get pointed if you do not have at least a forward scout to warn you.
Istyn Freight Club 227	Posted - 2013.07.30 12:10:00 - [36] - Quote Ellendras Silver wrote: Istyn wrote: Ellendras Silver wrote: RoAnnon wrote: I like the way almost every idea on this forum boils down to "I can't figure out how to kill it so it must be OP and needs to be nerfed!" You just need to figure out the vulnerabilities of the situation and play to those. The fact that JFs get killed all the time pretty much shows they can be killed, so the initial complaint is moot. if pilot doesn't make a mistake (which isn't that hard) you will never ever loose a JF. . This is true for pretty much every ship. sure thing plz take your meds Riveting argument there, clearly your knowledge on this subject is extensive.
Dyexz Comrades in Construction 1	Posted - 2013.07.30 17:08:00 - [37] - Quote @Heather Tsukaya I take it that you do not fly capital ships or at least not the kind of ships that is defenseless. Maybe you should try and look at it from the JF pilots perspective instead of your small narrow-minded perspective. Just flying a ~7 billion isk ship makes you a huge target enough as it is, not to mention that it is completely defenseless. Let me just ask you think, would you slap a sticker saying "Here, free* shiny kill-mail for you"* on the side of a ~7 billion ship? I sertantly would not ! Placing a cyno so close to a station is just a precaution but it is by no means fail-prove, and mistakes causes very big vulnerabilities when piloting a JF. There is no safe place in New Eden, not High security space, not Low security space, not Null security space nor even Wormhole space is safe. It doesn't matter what kind of ship you fly being in space means taking risks, that is probably why your flying in Low-sec space hoping to find some unfortunately few capsuleers that have had their luck run out. What would the point of EVE's foundation be if there wasn't methods to feel/be safe ?
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 2358	Posted - 2013.07.30 17:22:00 - [38] - Quote Dyexz wrote: @Heather Tsukaya I take it that you do not fly capital ships or at least not the kind of ships that is defenseless. Maybe you should try and look at it from the JF pilots perspective instead of your small narrow-minded perspective. Just flying a ~7 billion isk ship makes you a huge target enough as it is, not to mention that it is completely defenseless. Let me just ask you think, would you slap a sticker saying "Here, free* shiny kill-mail for you"* on the side of a ~7 billion ship? I sertantly would not ! Placing a cyno so close to a station is just a precaution but it is by no means fail-prove, and mistakes causes very big vulnerabilities when piloting a JF. There is no safe place in New Eden, not High security space, not Low security space, not Null security space nor even Wormhole space is safe. It doesn't matter what kind of ship you fly being in space means taking risks, that is probably why your flying in Low-sec space hoping to find some unfortunately few capsuleers that have had their luck run out. What would the point of EVE's foundation be if there wasn't methods to feel/be safe ? Actually, I think EvE offers too many methods for pilots to feel/be safe. Omniscient local means you can be 100% certain you are safe at the moment, allowing you to min/max your ship for isk making purposes and not worry about interaction with opponents. This makes people whine, cry, and throw a hissy-fit anytime someone leaves a cloaked hostile in system, because they no longer feel 100% safe. I believe people should operate while under constant danger, and the rewards should basically reflect the risks/danger ever-present. Covert, Nullified t3's means you can travel from point A to point B without fear of getting caught, without need for travel preparation (i.e. no scout, no bookmarks needed). The only way you lose them is due to piloting error and/or unfortunate lag. Jump Mechanics allow people to transport ships from point A to point B while completely invulnerable to getting caught. The only way you lose your carrier/JF during jump-travel is by piloting error (primarily bad cyno placement) and/or unfortunate luck (like dc'ing). Let's be frank, EvE has been becoming safer and safer as it evolves, and adding some danger back into the game is generally a good thing. At the same time, I would rather target local chat being used as an intel tool rather than jump logistics.
Solutio Letum Terpene Conglomerate 159	Posted - 2013.07.30 21:38:00 - [39] - Quote Sigras wrote: Tell me, how exactly would you catch this ship . . . anywhere [Loki, GingerbreadMan] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 100MN Afterburner II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Explosive Deflection Field II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Loki Defensive - Amplification Node Its not like PvPers have no unkillable ships. 1- Setup up camp 2- Get an interceptor with +5 000mm sensor res 3- Lock him, point him... There you go, if when he clicks cloak hes 1Hz for the server behind when you click target he wont be able to cloak. All needs to be done is the killing now 5 000mm is not a hard number to reach, a single sensor booster with 3 remote sensor boosters on top can make you reach it, you can target frigates in 0.5 seconds, meaning faster then the server clock. To be sure you can even get in some range sensor scrips with a faction point to get over 50km of pointing range. Or a +3 strengh True Sansha point, with 24km of range i think? not sure id have to check again what its like on interceptors
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 2361	Posted - 2013.07.30 22:33:00 - [40] - Quote Solutio Letum wrote: Sigras wrote: Tell me, how exactly would you catch this ship . . . anywhere [Loki, GingerbreadMan] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 100MN Afterburner II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Explosive Deflection Field II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Loki Defensive - Amplification Node Its not like PvPers have no unkillable ships. 1- Setup up camp 2- Get an interceptor with +5 000mm sensor res 3- Lock him, point him... There you go, if when he clicks cloak hes 1Hz for the server behind when you click target he wont be able to cloak. All needs to be done is the killing now 5 000mm is not a hard number to reach, a single sensor booster with 3 remote sensor boosters on top can make you reach it, you can target frigates in 0.5 seconds, meaning faster then the server clock. To be sure you can even get in some range sensor scrips with a faction point to get over 50km of pointing range. Or a +3 strengh True Sansha point, with 24km of range i think? not sure id have to check again what its like on interceptors You will ONLY get a successful lock if the Loki pilot has an unfortunate lag spike! Server Ticks (1 hz): 0: Loki loads grid under cloak. 1: Loki double clicks in space (or aligns or hits warp to). This info is sent to the server. 2: A: Loki activates cloak to cloak up. 2: B: Loki appears on your overview. You spam lock. 3: A: Loki is cloaked, (and warping away freely). 3: B: You get the "successful" lock this tick. 3: C: The server invalidates your lock/lock attempt because they are cloaked. 4 or 5: The loki disappears from your overview, flying off safely. Now, If you are lucky, the loki misses the cloak activation on tick 2, and you get the successful lock prior to him cloaking. I haven't done enough tests to verify how truly successful instalocking ships are at catching IN T3's, but my experience has been it is pretty luck based (and shoddy, tbh).

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