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RAM shortages - When and how is it being handled by CCP

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Michael Bolton	Posted - 2005.12.29 09:50:00 - [1] We had a promise from Kieron that CCP was aware of and looking into the RAM/R.DB isssue. Most producers are currently facing a situation where their stocks are gone and market shows very few RAMs for sale. Tech II ship production, especially with the new batch processing, requires you to have stocks of all materials before you start building, and RAM has now become the limiting factor in tech II production. I have two Questions to you CCP/Kieron: 1. What is being done about the RAM/R.DB shortage ? 2. When can we expect that the fix arrives ? And sonofollo, you need not bother post, we all know that you have a few hundred RAM out in Aridia. Use the sell orders forum instead. Quote: I'm listening to Pavarotti and I'm thinking 'What the hell have I been doing with my voice all these years?! Why haven't I taken my voice as far as I can take it as an instrument?'
Maxell Paradox	Posted - 2005.12.29 10:19:00 - [2] Being a new player I only have one question. What exactly is RAM/R.DB??
babyblue	Posted - 2005.12.29 10:21:00 - [3] I am getting RAM drops from agent missions at the moment, which I haven't seen happen for a year or more. I think it's just going to take some time to trickle into the system.
Darcuese	Posted - 2005.12.29 10:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Maxell Paradox Being a new player I only have one question. What exactly is RAM/R.DB?? Stuff that are used in production of Tech 2 stuff [ 2005.12.13 23:48:43 ]--Pilot from north:"we dont want to fight due to server crash and we want a fiar fight with you guys, just dont jump in".
J Valkor	Posted - 2005.12.29 10:37:00 - [5] Level 3 mission to kill the DED agent always drops RAM. Typically 3-5 modules. I am curious, besides missions such as those, where is RAM coming from?
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2005.12.29 10:59:00 - [6] Originally by: J Valkor Level 3 mission to kill the DED agent always drops RAM. Typically 3-5 modules. I am curious, besides missions such as those, where is RAM coming from? Nowhere. That's basically the problem. Only agents are giving out the RAM mods, and they don't drop enough to saturate the market to any usable degree, now that RAM/D.b can't be repaired. --- God-King of Genitalia
Brian Cohen	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:06:00 - [7] There's a lot of RAM for sale in Tash-Murkon region
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:08:00 - [8] They can be repaired. The problem is that there was a trick that allowed you to use the same ones over and over again without them getting consumed even if the Blueprint in question needed multiple units. With how the new factories work, this is no longer possible which means RAM gets consumed unless it damaged less than 100% per run (ie t2 ammo) in which case they can be repaired as long as you make sure the total damage done is still less than 100%. (which is 9 runs for t2 small ammo (10% damage per run), but only 1 run (65%) for large rounds). It's especially bad for ship construction atm, causing t2 ship prices to skyrocket yet again.
Galk	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:17:00 - [9] They might drop from agents again, but not anywhere near the ammount that was before. Droped a few missions the last few days, not a sniff of a ram unit, pre coldwar that wouldn't have been the case. There lies your problem, oh that and the only ram reward i have recieved since rmr was about 60 units, it used to be closer to 400 per. ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:) Seasons greetings, merry christmas to one and to all.
Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Brian Cohen There's a lot of RAM for sale in Tash-Murkon region By a lot do you mean hundreds of thousands? Cause if not then there is still a real issue!! Starship RAMs are currently on sale in my region for 1mil each!!! A nice earner for agent runners until they come to replace their T2 ships. These prices will currently add 4 mil to the price of an assualt frig!!! So you can imagine how it will effect HACs!!! lol Toph.
Riggwelter	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux They can be repaired. The problem is that there was a trick that allowed you to use the same ones over and over again without them getting consumed even if the Blueprint in question needed multiple units. With how the new factories work, this is no longer possible which means RAM gets consumed unless it damaged less than 100% per run (ie t2 ammo) in which case they can be repaired as long as you make sure the total damage done is still less than 100%. (which is 9 runs for t2 small ammo (10% damage per run), but only 1 run (65%) for large rounds). It's especially bad for ship construction atm, causing t2 ship prices to skyrocket yet again. Well you could be wright or wrong on this depending on which DEV has the wright answer. Mephisto seems to think it was intended and Keiron thinks its a bug that they are now consumed. My bet is that they were fixing a long standing bug but didnt realise the full implications that would result from fixing it despite being warned before the patch that this would happen.
Tophereon	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:54:00 - [12] Toph nudges CCP!!
mogwai	Posted - 2005.12.29 11:57:00 - [13] try doing some courier missions i got over 100 units of R.A.M's from 2 missions ............................................ It isnt a bug, it's a new feature
Ghoest	Posted - 2005.12.29 12:09:00 - [14] The stuff takes up to much space to bother picking up on the level 3 mission it drops on. Unless the price goes up to around 500k a piece its not worth worrying about unless you have extra space.
Riggwelter	Posted - 2005.12.29 12:22:00 - [15] Originally by: mogwai try doing some courier missions i got over 100 units of R.A.M's from 2 missions Then you are the exception ive done 40 High sec courier missions and so far received 25 Energy Tech (useless) R.A.M.S from 1 mission.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2005.12.29 12:45:00 - [16] The prices dont have to skyrocket. It's a poor excuse to bump prices up, TBH. If RAM goes up from 50k to 1000k (ie, 1 mil), then the price of each ship needs to go up by 950k per RAM needed. Plus a little for logistics costs, which are next to nothing. Lets overestimate and say logistics costs are 500k per RAM (they'd be more like 50k, if that). It then follows that something like a Cerberus (which I saw lastnight priced at 400m - lol) which uses 12 Starship RAM would have its price increased by 18 million, at that very inflated price I mentioned above. Currently they're being inflated by all sorts, even to the extremes we see above. There is no shortage of RAM, but people are stockpiling it because selling something for 1m does not seem 'worth' it when you know other people are essentially making a lot more money than your 1m. If suppliers werent to put their prices up by ridiculous amounts and merely compensate for the relatively small RAM price increase, then you'd see a lot more people selling them. Loading sig, please wait...
Michael Bolton	Posted - 2005.12.29 13:15:00 - [17] The recent hike in HAC prices is more likely speculation from resellers that have realised that production volume, such as it is, is drying up quickly due to the RAM shortage. NAGA recently announced that they have enough Starship RAM left to run their production lines until January 1st, and then have to start buying on market. If RAM are at 1M a piece and you can can get 100 from two courier missions as some people claim here then level 4 missions are back in crazyland when it comes to rewards. Just remember that 1M isk RAMs adds 11.4M to the raw production cost of a HAC, and quite ridiculously 4M to the production cost of an assault frigate. Repairing a RAM is a neglible cost of a few thousand isk. The logistics of moving all these needed RAM is the secondary problem. Once upon a time the best mission reward you could get was a bunch of graviton reactors, they sold for 2-300K a piece on market. Do you really want a repeat of that situation ? Quote: I'm listening to Pavarotti and I'm thinking 'What the hell have I been doing with my voice all these years?! Why haven't I taken my voice as far as I can take it as an instrument?'
Naal Morno	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:12:00 - [18] Edited by: Naal Morno on 29/12/2005 16:15:51 At current it doesn't make any sense to buy Starship RAMs for prices posted on markets (1mil+) if you're manufacturing anything except for HACs or new T2 ships. The fact is Inties/AFs/Coverts(to lessen degree) are not viable in production at this moment as market prices on less popular ones are lower than actual cost So please stop bringing HAC example to the table, the cost of RAMs in making them is really negligible in comparison to sales price. HAC manufacturers can afford buying RAMs (if there were enough to sustain production). And if HAC manufacturers, who don't care about the price of RAMs much, can't get enough of RAMs to sustain production - We have a problem. Obviously less profitable Inty manufacturer (raptor for example) will not add ISK to his production lines in this instance. Thank you. Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
Quanteeri	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:42:00 - [19] Quote: If RAM are at 1M a piece and you can can get 100 from two courier missions as some people claim here then level 4 missions are back in crazyland when it comes to rewards. I disagree. The only reason someone can make that much from RAM is because the market swing, not as a direct payoff from missions, unlike the old lvl4 missions which had direct payouts. When RAM was supercheap, you were just as well off getting Micro Capacitor Batteries as your reward. Just like every other time the game morphs, there is a period of instability, in which people can profit, while others get left out in the cold for not being prepared for the change. Personally, I think this is great. More oportunities for more people. I hope CCP determines that this isn't a bug and leaves it be. Also, like was said, this should be no reason for some of these T2 items (HACs,etc) to skyrocket. If they do, it's only because the manufacturer is adding the markup for RAM exponentially. CCP has even knows it. They've added the word BIGSHOT to the URL of my avatar.
Deuterium	Posted - 2005.12.29 16:47:00 - [20] Int's are not affected by the ram issue, they only damage a single ram, and it can be repaired.
Michael Bolton	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Deuterium Int's are not affected by the ram issue, they only damage a single ram, and it can be repaired. Sure, if you put the Inty in for one run at a time. Put in two runs an it spits out one RAM and eats the other. Things changed in the patch. Quote: I'm listening to Pavarotti and I'm thinking 'What the hell have I been doing with my voice all these years?! Why haven't I taken my voice as far as I can take it as an instrument?'
Mina Roberts	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:02:00 - [22] Edited by: Mina Roberts on 29/12/2005 17:02:26 I just sit back and shake my head at all people who are crying theres not enough T2 bpos and t2 is to expensive and you WANT ccp to keep the ram being destroyed the way it is? A lot of T2 producers are shutting down and this is only the beginning, only the richest of T2 producers will be able to afford to buy what few RAMs are available for sale in the end, this is going to get very silly. More T2 bpos isnt going to help anything when we dont even have enough ram to keep the current number of T2 bpos in production.
Happysin	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:24:00 - [23] My RAM got blowed up when I was transporting it. That's ok, though, because I also no longer have that Tech II BPO due to the same blowing up.
Th3 Gimp	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:28:00 - [24] whingers! stop complaining... theres plenty of ram out there on the market..your all to tight to pay for it.you charge everyone 2000% extra for T2 mods and ships..and cry like girls (srry for the ref girls) when you gotta pay the middle man for ya sheet! whingers! pod them all.
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Michael Bolton Originally by: Deuterium Int's are not affected by the ram issue, they only damage a single ram, and it can be repaired. Sure, if you put the Inty in for one run at a time. Put in two runs an it spits out one RAM and eats the other. Things changed in the patch. It doesnt matter if its 1 run or 2 run or 10 runs or whatever. I tried. It still eat the RAM. This increased price on RAM's got a lot to say for the price of inters, af's and covert/bombers. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Deuterium	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico It doesnt matter if its 1 run or 2 run or 10 runs or whatever. I tried. It still eat the RAM. This increased price on RAM's got a lot to say for the price of inters, af's and covert/bombers. uh no, 1 run builds of ints does not consume a whole ram, and you can repair the one it damages. I know this due to the 45 or so ints I've made in the past few days. Hurray for finding some bpcs
Drahcir Nasom	Posted - 2005.12.29 17:52:00 - [27] It's not really a problem, OK before RMR RAM were only worth what you could recycle them for because they rarely got used up. Since RMR we've been having to buy RAM, and the ones we use we are getting plenty at 450K (Starship), 350K (Weapon Tech) and 200K (all the rest). A lot of T2 manufacturers aren't going to like this next bit, but at the prices we are paying for our RAMs, this is what the increases have been on the production costs of a lot of the things we make. Eagle - 5.13M 150mm Rail 2 - 98K 200mm Rail 2 - 133K 250mm Rail 2 - 168K Dual Heavy Pulse Laser 2 - 182K Heatsink 2 - 30K Small Armor Repairer 2 - 10K 135mm Gatling Autocannon 2 - 42K Purifier - 855K Cruise Launcher 2 - 122.5K Assault Launcher 2 - 35K Even on the Purifier where production cost has gone up 20%, we have pretty much absorbed these increases without having to raise prices. If prices go up to say 1M per RAM for things like Weapon Tech and Starship Tech then we will have to raise our prices to absorb those sorts of increases. Drahcir Nasom CEO Independent Manufacturers
Quanteeri	Posted - 2005.12.29 18:24:00 - [28] Edited by: Quanteeri on 29/12/2005 18:25:15 Originally by: Drahcir Nasom It's not really a problem, OK before RMR RAM were only worth what you could recycle them for because they rarely got used up. Since RMR we've been having to buy RAM, and the ones we use we are getting plenty at 450K (Starship), 350K (Weapon Tech) and 200K (all the rest). A lot of T2 manufacturers aren't going to like this next bit, but at the prices we are paying for our RAMs, this is what the increases have been on the production costs of a lot of the things we make. Eagle - 5.13M 150mm Rail 2 - 98K 200mm Rail 2 - 133K 250mm Rail 2 - 168K Dual Heavy Pulse Laser 2 - 182K Heatsink 2 - 30K Small Armor Repairer 2 - 10K 135mm Gatling Autocannon 2 - 42K Purifier - 855K Cruise Launcher 2 - 122.5K Assault Launcher 2 - 35K Even on the Purifier where production cost has gone up 20%, we have pretty much absorbed these increases without having to raise prices. If prices go up to say 1M per RAM for things like Weapon Tech and Starship Tech then we will have to raise our prices to absorb those sorts of increases. Drahcir Nasom CEO Independent Manufacturers Exactly, and that really isn't that great an increase. This may or may not apply to you, but at the recent prices for Eagles, a 5M increase in build cost should really even be noticable on the market. I guessing here but I imagine an Eagle probably costs around 30M to build, and they sell for 100M, rough estimates? That's a lot of room for build cost absorbsion. Even it it cost 60M to build, that's still considerable room for absorbsion with a slight hike of a couple mil for the new RAM costs. Yeah, if RAM starts hitting 10mil a pop, it might be time to complain to CCP to increase RAM drops, but not to artificially save the RAM market. I mean honestly, and I hate going IRL, but gas here in the states has doubled in the last year, yet UPS has not doubled their shipping rates, they've only slightly increased the rate to cover the new fuel costs. CCP has even knows it. They've added the word BIGSHOT to the URL of my avatar.
Riggwelter	Posted - 2005.12.29 18:24:00 - [29] That may or may not be correct depending on what price you buy the R.A.M.s at and how many are consumed. The reason for the price increase is a shortage of finished ships. The price on the market for iso is 100 to 120 depending on how good/lucky you are find me someone selling it. The NPC price is 64 the reason for the difference in price is the same as the reason for the increase in the price of Tech 2. It has very little to do with extra cost and much more to do with the effects the R.A.M.s are having on supply. I have enought starship R.A.M. to produce until the end of January as i read the game development forum and predicted what was going to happen. Most other manufactuers dont seem to have been so lucky.
Titen	Posted - 2005.12.29 18:29:00 - [30] I'd have to say that the lack of RAMs on the market is one of the single most wonderful things CCP has ever done. Three cheers! Think I'm kidding? Look at it from my perspective (and others); Prices of T2 ships go up up up.. the masses complain about it and say "No fair! The price is too high!".. the T2 BPO owner comes back with "Well, we only price the ships at what the market will bear, so stop complaining". T2 BPO owners get a lot of their materials from POS owners. Continually the POS owner is faced with having to lower their own prices to compete with the continual influx of new POSs being put up. When the T2 BPO owner says "Lower your prices or we will go somewhere else", and the POS owner responds with "But our profits will drop if we do that, while yours continue to rise", the T2 BPO owner responds with "Stop complaining, we only charge what the market will bear". As has been said many times - and I have to agree - when there is a limited number of any item, and that item is in high demand, the price is set by the seller; not the buyer. Basic economics 101 there. So, I wonder how that shoe feels now that it's on another foot? I say RAISE the price of RAM. T2 BPO owners want to build? Pay up.. just like you've been making all of EvE do for a very long time. After all.. those who are selling their RAM units on the market are only charging the prices the market will bear. And those of us who are sitting on thousands of them.. well.. we're hoping that you'll decide you cannot 'bear' the RAM prices, sell your T2 BPO's to us, and we'll take it from there. Monopolistic opportunities for T2 BPO owners has effectively been slammed shut thanks to the RAM issue. Way to go CCP!

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