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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mimio
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Posted - 2006.01.05 17:32:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Nee'kita Frist Edited by: Nee''kita Frist on 05/01/2006 17:03:05 And if you gonna say "Oooo cos their names were like Jengamunga and Jangamonga etc etc. How do you know those just aren't just rather weird friends AND legit players.
Do not speak too much - just check belts. It is very-very easy. Otherwise for you better to believe. I am not macrohunter, I just know these people from Lineage2/EQ2/ a bit from WoW. And I hate them all.
Quote: And for the "Show me some evidence" statements. What gives you any right to see the modertaion/gm actions that CCP preforms? They are a private company and by all rights can keep information secret as they choose.
Excuse me, but CCP exists just because I personally pay money for CCPs service. And as customer I have holy right to ask/suggest CCP to improve service. Do you follow me? As customer. Ask. Improve. Suggest. Of course, CCP may or may not response for my requests. It is holy right of CCP. Currently situation is just annoying for me, so I continue to pay, CCP continues service. If situation in MY PRIVATE OPINION will be out of control, I will stop payment and left CCP alone.
Quote: On a side note about those who ARE farming and selling ISK. Could CCP not just monitor the movement of large sums of money? I'm sure they could take a look at how money laundering is handled to see how that works.
It's done.
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Nee'kita Frist
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Posted - 2006.01.05 17:33:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Mimio
Originally by: Juxler Here's my take as a trial-only noob:
Implement a program that watches for 3rd party applications or bots, like Blizzard did with WoW and their "weasel" program or whatever.
It does not help.
For the sole reason that anything that runs client side that requires the client to report back to the server can easily be bypassed and modified to better server a macroer.
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Dendrin Koljn
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Posted - 2006.01.05 17:49:00 -
[153]
Posted elsewhere, but i'll say it again...
Give each NPC corp a set number of belts it can mine at in high sec space - mine anywhere else and you get concorded.
Makes em easy to spot in high sec space, or makes em move to non concord protected or make a corp.
As the roids are already associated with npc corps ( remember what happened just after the RMR upgrade) cant see this as a big coding issue for CCP ( could be wrong)
Thoughts |
Driven
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Posted - 2006.01.05 17:52:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Queen Nefertiti My corp is purely a production corp and for that end we need to be able to mine to be able to produce. The disease of the macro miner has now got huge. We scouted EVERY single belt within 7 jumps of our HQ to find 3 pyrox ROIDS a few scordite and the rest were veld.Everything had been cleared by the macros and farmers. That means that our gane is completely ruined.
As far as I can see the only way to stop this problem is simple. CCP have to stop isk being sold on ebay! There are other games where you will never see their currency or items being sold because they clamp down on it so it has to be possible. The only reason I can see why this hasnt happened is because CCP are being greedy and want their subscription monies. How long before they start losing genuine players because we are unable to play the game our way anymore??
This is why the rule of 30-60 days and then forced into a player corp or they cannot fly anything but a rookie ship MUST be adopted.
Once players who actually want to play leave the game, the only players left will be the IKS-farmers.
Would someone in Iceland please wake Helmar up?
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Jorge Kamzell
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:00:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn Posted elsewhere, but i'll say it again...
Give each NPC corp a set number of belts it can mine at in high sec space - mine anywhere else and you get concorded.
Makes em easy to spot in high sec space, or makes em move to non concord protected or make a corp.
As the roids are already associated with npc corps ( remember what happened just after the RMR upgrade) cant see this as a big coding issue for CCP ( could be wrong)
Thoughts
I like it. It's actually not a bad idea. Maybe make the only system NPC corp members can mine in are the systems their NPC corp has its HQ in. For example, anyone who's a member of the State War Academy can only mine in Kisogo. And make the ore respawns in those systems painfully slow. Macroers would soon quit the game or make their own corps.
All other players who play in npc corps could continue to play the game as normal - except a minority of legit miners who prefare staying in their npc corp to player-run corps. They'd be stuck competing against macroers but in the words of spock...
Originally by: Spock The needs of the many, outweight the needs of the few.
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Jet Calhoun
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:07:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Jeret McKain 1. on forcing players out of npc corps - what's to stop them from going to the dump out npc corp? oh, they can't do that either? then how do you get rid of a no load in your corp? oh, you hadn't thought of that? where do they go if they don't leave the npc corp? they get booted from eve? lol. While it would be great if lamers wouldn't hide in npc corps - these suggestions/solutions are incomplete and will not work. Easier would be to say you can declare war on a single person for a lesser fee. Now, why didn't anyone think of that?
Gee, son, you're a genius! Didn't anyone ever tell you that?
In a player corp you rejoin the NPC corp when you leave, don't you. Same limited lifetime would apply after that.
The suggestion might still be incomplete but that doesn't yet mean it wouldn't work. Please don't go telling everybody how stupid they are compared to yourself, it comes across as arrogance.
-- Lose != Loose
Lose (v) - To suffer loss. Loose (adj) - Not fastened, restrained, or contained.
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Driven
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:15:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Driven on 05/01/2006 18:21:05 So, now we have 6 pages in just two days of dozens of people sick to death of this plague in the game.
Perhaps Wrangler put all of this in here because CCP simply doesn't care and doesn't want to hear about it any more and they don't want their precious forums taken up with this subject - after all, it might scare new legitimate players away if it is too pervasive on the forums. So they figure if we all vent our little spleens in here we will eventually just shut up and learn to live with it.
I am sure I am not alone in asking that CCP at least acknowledge they are actually listening to these numerous and growing complaints and actually give a **** about what we think.
How about an answer?
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Juxler
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:39:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Nee'kita Frist
Originally by: Mimio
Originally by: Juxler Here's my take as a trial-only noob:
Implement a program that watches for 3rd party applications or bots, like Blizzard did with WoW and their "weasel" program or whatever.
It does not help.
For the sole reason that anything that runs client side that requires the client to report back to the server can easily be bypassed and modified to better server a macroer.
It has helped some in WoW. There were some commonly available bot programs for WoW that are now at least significantly more risky and difficult to run than before. This would obviously not eliminate farming, but it would limit the ability of people to flood the mineral market with goods mined while AFK (as well as limiting use of client-side "cheat" programs, if such things exist). Note - I'm not saying that it would be impossible to run these programs, but fewer people would run them if it were significantly more difficult and risky to do so.
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Liliane Woodhead
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:42:00 -
[159]
Why all you want to change the game ? bored ? ....
Lets report the _isk selling bastards_/_using not allowed script users_ and let do CCP take justice over them.
EULA
Its not our job to fight them cos such people shouldnt be a part of this wonderful game.
Oh and for those who are really bored: **** the sellers at ebay. dont pay real money ... be a real
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:03:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Mimio
Originally by: Nee'kita Frist Edited by: Nee''kita Frist on 05/01/2006 17:03:05 And if you gonna say "Oooo cos their names were like Jengamunga and Jangamonga etc etc. How do you know those just aren't just rather weird friends AND legit players.
Do not speak too much - just check belts. It is very-very easy. Otherwise for you better to believe. I am not macrohunter, I just know these people from Lineage2/EQ2/ a bit from WoW. And I hate them all.
Quote: And for the "Show me some evidence" statements. What gives you any right to see the modertaion/gm actions that CCP preforms? They are a private company and by all rights can keep information secret as they choose.
Excuse me, but CCP exists just because I personally pay money for CCPs service. And as customer I have holy right to ask/suggest CCP to improve service. Do you follow me? As customer. Ask. Improve. Suggest. Of course, CCP may or may not response for my requests. It is holy right of CCP. Currently situation is just annoying for me, so I continue to pay, CCP continues service. If situation in MY PRIVATE OPINION will be out of control, I will stop payment and left CCP alone.
Quote: On a side note about those who ARE farming and selling ISK. Could CCP not just monitor the movement of large sums of money? I'm sure they could take a look at how money laundering is handled to see how that works.
It's done.
I laughed when i read this specific post "Excuse me, but CCP exists just because I personally pay money for CCPs service."
Rember every player is a guest of CCP, they could reroll the server to day 1 if they wanted and you could do nothing about it except leave.
No mmo company out there cares about every single user's satisfaction. The old idea of the customer is always right died off some where at the back end of the 70's when big business became totally profit motivated.
a large portion of all activate accounts not peak users would have to threaten to leave before it became an actual financial problem. Rember alot of these macro/sweatshop accounts are still paid accounts really think the marketing depts and accountants are gonna be happy is theres a sudden drop in sales turn over by mass banning of suspected macro's.
Alot of people have their head in the clouds with this thread. NO mmo out there has come up with a viable way of gettin rid of macro's that can't be bypasses or just totaly nerfs the game into oblivion and they have far more resources than CCP to bring to bear. Frankly I feel sorry for all the GM's and Dev's that are gettin flamed and treated like their responsible for macro's been ingame. A macro can exist where any part of the game isn't completely random the fact is your playing in a world that has a limited number of senarios and outcomes. Its a problem that underlines the entire computer community nothing on a computer can be truely random only pseudo random. You can get pseudo random very close to true random but by that point you've invested so much in coding something thats pseudo random everything else is neglected.
The only otherway to go is to completely limit everything that can be done. In the case of eve, everyone can only mine this much in this belt and this much in total every week and can only train these many skill point in this time period and can only transfer this much isk at anyone time etc etc. Basicly to the point where everything in the game is determined for you.
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Hans Rex
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:42:00 -
[161]
Man it is sooo frustrating. I've chased this particular group of farmers all over the place.
fossick2 fossick3 fossick....
And now they show up in my base system. Stripping everything clean. I would simply like some game mechanics, to allow me to do something about it.
I understand its going to be an ongoing problem, but it needs to be kept in check. Right now its exploding. It is effecting game play.
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Macro Slasher
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:42:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Driven I am sure I am not alone in asking that CCP at least acknowledge they are actually listening to these numerous and growing complaints and actually give a **** about what we think.
How about an answer?
Perhaps some day after the hell has frozen. Meanwhile we will most likely see just squirming and vague re-assurances that they are "on it" and bad GM moderation and stuff like that.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:55:00 -
[163]
ok then if CCP are trying to appeas the macros by leaving them in place - political reasons perhaps ? remember they are going into china and if they boot to many chinesse macro'ers it could become a political issue - so keeping it low key. Now macro'ers are a global problem but get on the chinesse channel and guess what most of youre well known macro names are there to be seen ?
Is it financial ? delete some of htem revenue falls so we take petitions and then ignore them give a standard we are looking into it = 6 months later and 50 petitions later oh they are still there well im not petitioning anymore im just going to take their ore
It has become a standoff ingame Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Arcsine
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Posted - 2006.01.05 20:20:00 -
[164]
YArrrr. Another dumb idea for the "dumb idea" bin:
How about making a macrominer shard. Put all suspected macrominers on it. Watch the amount of time they stay logged in and mine vs other activities.
Battlestar Galacita: Humans vs. Cylons EVE Online: Humans vs. macrominers
I ask you, coincidence, or not?
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UGWidowmaker
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Posted - 2006.01.05 20:56:00 -
[165]
ccp dosent seem to care... so why should we ??? lets all do macro mining and make tons of isk.. as ccp dosent care an dnothing happends they state its legit and OK to do.. the LAQ of writing an officiel statement in this thread is another way of saying macro mining is LEGIT... nd NOT exploit.. ill go find som ekewl scripts.. theres even sites with em on wich cost money too.. OMFG...
this is the right solution:
Make a newbie server where all in npc corps start.. when they are ready and NOT in a npc corp they can choose to go to tranquility.. and corp recruiters can get a PERM acount on the NPC server to recruit. this way we wont have players in npc corps on tranquility at ALL.. now this is the best way for both NEW players but also old players.. Skill will follow with the player but the isk he gained on npc server WONT. nore can items isk modules be transfered along.. ONLY the toon and maybe 1 ship.. ( implants if any etc.. are ofc ok if they are IN the head.. its about time CCP do somehting LIKE this....
The first thing about we all go macro was ment as a JOKE! the idea about a npc new player servev ISENT- I will make u into biosource... |
Rhonni Rhocket
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Posted - 2006.01.05 21:04:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Rhonni Rhocket on 05/01/2006 21:05:59
Originally by: Arcsine YArrrr. Another dumb idea for the "dumb idea" bin:
I found this quite an ironic thing for you to say after I went on to read this....
Originally by: Arcsine How about making a macrominer shard. Put all suspected macrominers on it. Watch the amount of time they stay logged in and mine vs other activities.
I like it!
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UGWidowmaker
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Posted - 2006.01.05 21:05:00 -
[167]
i also sugest ccp put a mann on sites like this MACRO
thx. I will make u into biosource... |
UGWidowmaker
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Posted - 2006.01.05 21:09:00 -
[168]
its posible to have auto removal of scripts from quake and cs and other i dont see why not in eve... any know if programs such as punkbuster would do any good ? or are those programs just to check if you have altered something within the game codes/scripts etc.. ? I will make u into biosource... |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.05 21:28:00 -
[169]
Originally by: sonofollo i think we need to hear from some macro miners on this (those running the accounts) whats youre take on all of this - is it good we are looking at removing u - should we allow u to sell ISK etc to make u some money (ie going down the WOW path) - is it really destorying the game as much as everyone else is complaining about - should we destory this game so everyone can make some money off it - making skills based on combat not time basis
(please note some sarcasim) but if we get a ISK farmer response it could be interesting
Not to be harsh, but every macro-miner I've met does not know how to speak english very well, and I hihghly doubt those who farm to make real cash care to check the forums.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.05 21:31:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Even in other MMORPG's where it's possible to kill the farmers as much as you want(like PvP servers in WoW) they still thrive.
That's because there is little or no loss when you die in PK on WoW, DAOC or the like. EVE on the other hand does have loss.
Also, Perhaps CCP needs to make it so NPCs don't buy ore. I know I've sold alot of minerals to the Caldari Navy, and other npc factions, but perhaps only players should be allowed to buy them, as it is unlikely that such major groups couldnt have their own mining ops.
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Arcsine
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Posted - 2006.01.05 21:40:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn Posted elsewhere, but i'll say it again...
Give each NPC corp a set number of belts it can mine at in high sec space - mine anywhere else and you get concorded.
Or to put it another way, you are breaking treaties and such with other corps, hence you will be Concorded
Originally by: Dendrin Koljn
Thoughts
This is by far my favorite idea.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2006.01.05 21:58:00 -
[172]
the role of things like weasel isnt to be fool proof its to force unscrupolous developers into walking a line between spreading their product and keeping it a secret.
The punkbuster team has reversed engineered well publicized hacks within hours of their public release creating a strong incentive for anyone with the capacity to cheat to stay quiet about it.
Though punkbuster for 3dshooters has the ultimate step built into it: the capacity to screenshot the clients game screen and send it to the server.
Its interesting that being screenshoted is ok on 3dshooters but would never fly in a mmorpg community.
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Biggess Boobess
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Posted - 2006.01.05 22:06:00 -
[173]
Wrangler .... you can't make a topic that your fed up with macro miners without telling us what you are going to do about them. Your fed up with hearing about them???? We are fed up with having to put up with them.
I think the players are due an answer that something is being done about it?
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.01.05 22:18:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Qutsemnie the role of things like weasel isnt to be fool proof its to force unscrupolous developers into walking a line between spreading their product and keeping it a secret.
The punkbuster team has reversed engineered well publicized hacks within hours of their public release creating a strong incentive for anyone with the capacity to cheat to stay quiet about it.
Though punkbuster for 3dshooters has the ultimate step built into it: the capacity to screenshot the clients game screen and send it to the server.
Its interesting that being screenshoted is ok on 3dshooters but would never fly in a mmorpg community.
Yuh 22,000 users getting screenshotted and sent to the server... boy the lag on that would be incredible.
The problem is alot of these programs that are designed to detect cheats and hacks wouldn't catch macro's because nothings most of them are passive ie not directly interacting with the games execution, just screen reading and keyboard mouse simulation. Aggressive interaction with mmo clients would be a stupid as running into the dev's office and waving a huge flag saying that their exploiting.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.05 22:33:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 05/01/2006 22:47:19
Originally by: Juxler It has helped some in WoW. There were some commonly available bot programs for WoW that are now at least significantly more risky and difficult to run than before.
No it's not. Sony's rather infamous music root-kit completely nullifies the Warden program by simply adding $s$, or something like that, to the front of the name of your bot program. As soon as word got out about Sony's little kit, pretty uch every WoW bot was re-modified, and I believe one website had the program that installs the rootkit included in the zip.
Warden does nothing, except give Blizzard unacceptable levels of privacy invasion.
Originally by: Biggess Boobess Wrangler .... you can't make a topic that your fed up with macro miners without telling us what you are going to do about them. Your fed up with hearing about them???? We are fed up with having to put up with them.
I think the players are due an answer that something is being done about it?
Why it does sound like Wrangler's creation of this thread is due to his personal feelings, and makes the basis of his actions somewhat questionable, focusing it all into one thread does give CCP a place to look should they choose to, without skimming through lots of treads with the same thing being repeated.
Also, cinsdering how much EVe has grown in the past few months, they could lose 10k subs (hopefully there arent THAT many macro accounts), hire 1-3 people to deal solely with petitions 40+ hours a week, and they'd still have a far greater total income from the game by the end of '06.
However, their economists probably show them that neither hiring more people, nor using said people to ban the problem, will give them even more money, which may be true, but even a nice article in semi-****ty blog like the escapist(seeing their EVe article hasn't changed that it's a rather minor and 'meh' site) won't mean much if major gaming sites/magizines atack the game as being easy on cheaters.
CCP show know after a certain incident not long ago, which was causing alot of people to quit (granted, I still see them all in the forums (hi avon)), got blown up fast by players. Macros are the same thing, only the bell curve of outrage isn't as steep, but it will get larger.
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ThundrGod
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Posted - 2006.01.05 22:41:00 -
[176]
Lets actually look at what the macro-miners bring to the community.....
1)They are quiet, hardworking players performing a thankless, mind-numbing task
2)They keep mineral prices down allowing for affordable ships for all
3)With new can flagging rules it allows for training for noob pirates similar to lvl1 missions for mission runners
4)Forces carebear players to get in the actual game with everyone else in low-sec if they want to continue a career staring at rocks
5)THEY DON'T SPAM THE FORUMS WITH INANE THREADS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN
In conclusion, don't hate on the guy trying to buy a bag of rice for his village, appreciate his efforts to improve everyone's gaming experience and everyone join me in thanking the macroers for their hard work in providing low cost minerals for all!
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.01.05 23:23:00 -
[177]
BBC Newsnight just ran an article on MMO's and how big there getting. Small segment on it was about groups that train characters of and sell them. Made me realise in quite a few countries its actually a foundation stone of the economy now. So no matter whats done about it its going to become a political issue. And frankly its gonna put MMO companies in the position to economically strangle some countries.... ahh the age of the megacorp's ruling the world has begun.
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Rikkta
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Posted - 2006.01.05 23:31:00 -
[178]
Why can't CCP just cut the amount of TRIT and PYR for all items by 90%!
Then raise the amount of isogen and maybe some other low sec minerals buy 25%!
This would end macrominers immediately. |
More Ahn
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Posted - 2006.01.05 23:39:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Driven
This is why the rule of 30-60 days and then forced into a player corp or they cannot fly anything but a rookie ship MUST be adopted.
Once players who actually want to play leave the game, the only players left will be the IKS-farmers.
Would someone in Iceland please wake Helmar up?
Hey, um ... there are people who really like playing in an NPC corp. The ones who'd rather not get too involved in Alliance combat, for example. Forcing people to leave the NPC corps after 30 days would destroy any chance they might have had to roleplay in those corps.
Report the macro miners. Attack the macro miners. Let me play in peace, without having to worry so much about whether my corp will be taken over by espionage from within.
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Kim Chee
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Posted - 2006.01.05 23:47:00 -
[180]
I'd like to think that post was pure sarcasm, but on the off chance that it wasn't...
Originally by: ThundrGod
2)They keep mineral prices down allowing for affordable ships for all
Except me. As a legitimate miner, I have to work five times as hard to make a living in my chosen profession, because a bunch of macro-miners who don't care about the game are flooding the market.
Originally by: ThundrGod
3)With new can flagging rules it allows for training for noob pirates similar to lvl1 missions for mission runners
I have no idea what ***** you're smoking here. The new can rules don't do ME any good unless I'm mining in a battleship. Oh noes! If someone takes my ore I might turn my scary Gaussian Mining Laser on them!
Originally by: ThundrGod
4)Forces carebear players to get in the actual game with everyone else in low-sec if they want to continue a career staring at rocks
And there you've violated the entire reason EVE is such a great game, namely that it does NOT force you to play a particular way. If I want a game where my role is dictated to me from the start, I'll go play WoW, thanks.
Originally by: ThundrGod
In conclusion, don't hate on the guy trying to buy a bag of rice for his village, appreciate his efforts to improve everyone's gaming experience and everyone join me in thanking the macroers for their hard work in providing low cost minerals for all!
Can you be that clueless? Or perhaps you work for IGE? No game company wants people to sell in-game items or currancy without getting a cut of it themselves. If CCP wanted to destroy their game economy, they'd have their own channels for you to purchase items or ISK.
Gold farmers don't care about the game or anyone who plays it. They're doing a job that's slighly more appealing than wading through the rice paddies every day. If I were in their position, I'd do the same thing, but that doesn't make it right.
Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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