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Using Wasp Drones is an exploit

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:40:00 - [1] As you can read in the annoucements using these drones is an exploit and if you have lost a ships to them you can go to Ask A Question then go Reimbursement and ask if you can have your ship replaced. Please give as many details as you have regarding your loss as it may help the GM"s to verify these drones were used. Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. This applies to both tech I and tech II Wasp Drones. GM Annoucement Mail [email protected] for questions or to report bad threads in need of my loving touch My broken heart leaves my mind in pieces, temptation wins in the end

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:45:00 - [2] Great. And ECM drones? Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Kay Han	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:45:00 - [3] first \o/ ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Allan Robertson	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:47:00 - [4] Edited by: Allan Robertson on 05/01/2006 23:47:05 I think the Devs are over-reacting to this, yes it's a bug and needs to be fixed, and in the meantime I will not use Wasps, but why does CCP have to come down on users like a ton of bricks and call it an exploit as if they are the ones in the wrong?
Emperor D'Hoffryn	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:51:00 - [5] so what exactly is the issue with the drones? they hit every time or something? seems strange its that big of a battle deciding problem....

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:53:00 - [6] If you use them it gives an very unbalanced and unfair advantage, hence it is an exploit. The game mechanics that allows this will be fixed as soon as possible. Please keep in mind that some changes require a client patch and if it wouldn't require a client patch the problem wouldn't exist. Mail [email protected] for questions or to report bad threads in need of my loving touch My broken heart leaves my mind in pieces, temptation wins in the end

IcedBach Jr	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:57:00 - [7] so if one is deep in enemy space, with dominix and only wasps, what is one to do. u made the mistake, fix it, but dont do these silly announcments. Or will you give us free t2 drones to use instead. Praeludium to success
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.01.05 23:58:00 - [8] So what are you doing to compensate the Domi/Ishtar/Vexor/Arbitrator/Curse/Pilgrim pilots who normally use Wasps during their mission running against Guristas? Or are you just leaving them out in the cold?
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Toaster Oven So what are you doing to compensate the Domi/Ishtar/Vexor/Arbitrator/Curse/Pilgrim pilots who normally use Wasps during their mission running against Guristas? Or are you just leaving them out in the cold? I think the news post only mentioned PVP and ship losses incured there. -------------
Gonada	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:00:00 - [10] just take em out, too easy to abuse then cry " i didnt know !" -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Jowen Datloran	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:01:00 - [11] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 06/01/2006 00:03:46 Originally by: Allan Robertson Edited by: Allan Robertson on 05/01/2006 23:47:05 I think the Devs are over-reacting to this, yes it's a bug and needs to be fixed, and in the meantime I will not use Wasps, but why does CCP have to come down on users like a ton of bricks and call it an exploit as if they are the ones in the wrong? I think not. If CCP calls "exploit" on a item it is important to be very clear on the subject. There must be no doubt and no questions nessesary regarding the case. Even though it is their programming error (and nobody can be perfect all the time you know) they don't have to answer to anybody here for what they do. Personally I enjoy people being busted on exploits, I really loathe cheaters who tries to take advantage of a simple human error. ---------------- Main as main can be
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:02:00 - [12] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 06/01/2006 00:02:39 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain I think the news post only mentioned PVP and ship losses incured there. First post in this thread indicates it's considered an exploit using them in missions.
Omber Zombie	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:03:00 - [13] is thi sjust the combat versions of wasps, or the EW variations too? ---------------------- Originally by: Seleene I maintain that OZ is evil and have nothing further to add.
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:07:00 - [14] it's all wasps...in the announcement it says "Wasp drones (both tech I and tech II variants)" so I'm assuming all of them...
Katamarino	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:10:00 - [15] SO the players take QA mistakes on the chin. What would peoples reaction be if suddenly the GMs ordered us not to use, say, 450mm railguns for a week or so? Drones are primary weapons for a lot of people, and this is absurd.
moroti	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Omber Zombie is thi sjust the combat versions of wasps, or the EW variations too? The EW Wasps don't have tracking which is the issue mentioned in the news post so I imagine using them is not an exploit. I must say this is a tad sucky though. Being in 0.0 with an Ishtar loaded with Wasps for the local rats and the nearest empire camped almost 23/7 by hostiles. Guess I'll be spending the next 5 days sat at a POS
eztrader	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Katamarino .. What would peoples reaction be if suddenly the GMs ordered us not to use, say, 450mm railguns for a week or so? Oh l dunno l'd probably manage to not use them at all.
Ukucia	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:18:00 - [18] Originally by: moroti I must say this is a tad sucky though. Being in 0.0 with an Ishtar loaded with Wasps for the local rats and the nearest empire camped almost 23/7 by hostiles. Guess I'll be spending the next 5 days sat at a POS If you're unwilling to wait, you could always petition, asking for the wasps to be changed to some other equivalent drone.
Allan Robertson	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Jowen Datloran Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 06/01/2006 00:03:46 Originally by: Allan Robertson Edited by: Allan Robertson on 05/01/2006 23:47:05 I think the Devs are over-reacting to this, yes it's a bug and needs to be fixed, and in the meantime I will not use Wasps, but why does CCP have to come down on users like a ton of bricks and call it an exploit as if they are the ones in the wrong? I think not. If CCP calls "exploit" on a item it is important to be very clear on the subject. There must be no doubt and no questions nessesary regarding the case. Even though it is their programming error (and nobody can be perfect all the time you know) they don't have to answer to anybody here for what they do. Personally I enjoy people being busted on exploits, I really loathe cheaters who tries to take advantage of a simple human error. Why should an unsuspecting player be pnushed for playing the game, I know mistakes happen in programming I design websites and know very well that mistakes happen, but they are 'my' mistakes and 'not' others. So CCP sould not 'blame' a player using Wasps that might not know about this. So whats next? All hybrid guns are buged, don't use them? This is like Microsoft telling it's users that they can't use Windows because of the latest bug, and we will fix it when we get the patch out.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Ukucia Originally by: moroti I must say this is a tad sucky though. Being in 0.0 with an Ishtar loaded with Wasps for the local rats and the nearest empire camped almost 23/7 by hostiles. Guess I'll be spending the next 5 days sat at a POS If you're unwilling to wait, you could always petition, asking for the wasps to be changed to some other equivalent drone. Given NPC's are vulnrable to ONE damage type, and no other heavies do the same as wasps, there is NO "equivalent" avaliable. Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Dao 2	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:45:00 - [21] so uh if i only have wasps up with me in .0 could the gms spawn me like 20 serkers or somethin ;pppppp?
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:48:00 - [22] Good move tbh. Bug + unfair advantage = sploit.. nuff said :]
Malena VXXI	Posted - 2006.01.06 00:55:00 - [23] I want Reimbursement in isk for "not" to be able too use my drones "I bought too defend my self" Miner \| Trader
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.01.06 01:01:00 - [24] Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 06/01/2006 01:01:09 the Rexthor Hammerfists one man army: "a matter of honor not to use em - the ppl that did are worth nothing in my eyes, and sadly i saw alot of them used the alst days. ccp isnt stupid, and if it would b that easy to fix it in a single dt, they wouldve done it, good move to make it an official exploit - lost many supports to this." edit, not my fault - im lazy born.
Wee Dave	Posted - 2006.01.06 01:13:00 - [25] So at present Wasps never miss. Is that about right?
Heavenly Explorer	Posted - 2006.01.06 01:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Heavenly Explorer on 06/01/2006 01:21:04 This is great news for me - im flying around in my domi hunting Guristas BS rats using wasps as my PRIMARY DAMAGE DEALERS. So I'm surposed to use another drone type and do far less damage? How did you fix the heatsink dmg modifier bug without a patch. Cant you guys do the same thing with this problem. I would assume if you can fix a dmg mod you can fix tracking. Looks like 1/4th less profit for me until the patch is deployed, 10th of Jan IIRC, plus it'll probably be at least a few days late like most other patches.
Longasc	Posted - 2006.01.06 01:35:00 - [27] Yup, they even do damage when it reads "miss". You know how this could happen? Because someone at CCP has problems reading the RMR font right, too!
Aarn Khaar	Posted - 2006.01.06 02:06:00 - [28] I have always hated it when a game company makes an error in a rather commonly used thing and tells the player base if they use it they are exploiting. SWG did this a lot. For example, the last one I heard out of them was putting another person on your harvester list was considered an exploit. :laughs: I would rather they have kept quiet about the wasp drones (not enticing people to seek them out to use). Try to fix it as soon as possible using an emergency patch if it is really that bad. Then after it is fixed make a news update saying that an odd program had infected a batch of wasp drones. That the drones have all been recalled and new properly functioning drones have been reissued to all pod pilots who owned one. Yeah, they made the mistake. Why should a player whose primary fighting abilities are in drones have to pay for it. Personally, I do not use them. I just think it is a bad precedent to break something commonly used then call people who use it exploiters even if they do not know about it. I suppose it is just the terminology that I do not like and the fact that people are receiving warnings for using a drone.
xbreaka	Posted - 2006.01.06 02:10:00 - [29] i fly a phoon and carry 7 wasps on me at all times to fight guristas, with no drones i basiclaly loose have my damage thanks gms.. I for one will continue to use my wasps in 0.0 to rat seeing as i dont expect the npcs to file any tickets against me! FIGHT THE MAN!
blood red	Posted - 2006.01.06 02:13:00 - [30] if only a client patch can fix this does this mean that EVE client is hackable and exploitable? people with even little experience can mod the client, could this possibly be done?
Chi chan	Posted - 2006.01.06 02:41:00 - [31] Edited by: Chi chan on 06/01/2006 02:41:54 Well that anouncement is crap, and i'm not interested in it in any way. I've wasps, I payed for them and I'm going to use them, except CCP gives me other heavy drones that do kinetic damage for that time. I'm not willig to play without drones and I'm not willing to buy or use drones that do other damage types. And I'm paying for this game, so I expect it to work. so.. funny anouncement... maybe I'm putting it in my joke folder.
Brannor McThife	Posted - 2006.01.06 02:42:00 - [32] Ok... if I hadn't happened to come waltzing along and actually READ this thread, I would never have known about this. I can't access the announcement because my browser goes into a perpetual loop of "please wait..". Fact is, calling this an exploit, and posting this on the website/forum, is not enough. I can bet you that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who are going to continue using their Wasp drones, as they have before RMR, blisfully unawair - like I was - that there was anything different about them. Before RMR, I used 2 Praetor and 4 Wasps, now I use 1 Praetor and 2 Wasps...going to carry on doing just that, as I use them to kill turrets and occasionally frigates. Why must I change? Because you say that they what? Don't miss? Geez...I do like 1 mission every few days, sometimes never even using the drones, and if I use the drones just once to kill something, suddenly I'm an exploiter taking advantage of game mechanics and I'll get my character banned/suspended? WTF?! -G
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2006.01.06 02:49:00 - [33] Originally by: xbreaka i fly a phoon and carry 7 wasps on me at all times to fight guristas, with no drones i basiclaly loose have my damage thanks gms.. I for one will continue to use my wasps in 0.0 to rat seeing as i dont expect the npcs to file any tickets against me! FIGHT THE MAN! Rock on, brotha'
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2006.01.06 02:49:00 - [34] Originally byEVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
Val Erian	Posted - 2006.01.06 03:00:00 - [35] Yes, all players who are going to use WASP Drones after CCp declared it an Exploit make public announcements here please. It will be much easier to track you down.
Sarela	Posted - 2006.01.06 03:08:00 - [36] In lou of the recent patch, ongoing macro miners operating without accountability, misuse of the ore thief system, nerf after nerf, constant additions of skills just as I start to make progress, which sets me back months. I have decided to suspend my account to persue other games that do not have the above problems. I suppose the final blow was the announcement of the Wasp bug / exploit. These drones are all I have ever used for over a year, and now I cant use them anymore or I will get banned.. I choose to remove that possibility by banning myself, as I have no wish to explore alternatives to change how I play EvE for the next 3 - 6 months till you solve these issues for the next patch. Good luck CCP, and all EVE pilots. I hope to see you in the future either here on eve or in the next virtual universe. ( All my stuff is locked away... so no.. dont ask... LOL )
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2006.01.06 03:45:00 - [37] Come on people. Its not a nerf. Wasps are over powered not because they were meant too but because of a mistake, so to use them because of a that is wrong, no matter how you want to justifiy it. I'm sure if people havent seen/read the warning about using them CCP isnt going to swing the hammer at them willy nilly....Hmmm I should say "swing the ban hammer at them willy nilly." (not sure if hammer swings or not..and really have no desire to continue that line of though) Lets all just remain calm-have patience and in a few days we'll all be happy again.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2006.01.06 03:52:00 - [38] Edited by: Spy4Hire on 06/01/2006 03:54:36 Originally by: Eris Discordia Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. GM Annoucement IMO don't really care if wasps are bugged, I'll keep using them. Start banning macro exploiters and you can ban me for using wasps. Here, I can give you a list of known petitioned macro users who remain months after they were first identified. If I spit out a single wasp I won't go 2 hours without getting slapped by a GM, much less months.
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2006.01.06 04:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Spy4Hire Originally by: Eris Discordia Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. GM Annoucement IMO don't really care if wasps are bugged, I'll keep using them. Start banning macro exploiters and you can ban me for using wasps. If they catch macro exploiters they do ban them. Your choice of course, me I wouldnt push the GMs on this issue, they stated their position on it clearly.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2006.01.06 04:11:00 - [40] Originally by: Saeris Tal'Urduar Originally by: Spy4Hire Originally by: Eris Discordia Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. GM Annoucement IMO don't really care if wasps are bugged, I'll keep using them. Start banning macro exploiters and you can ban me for using wasps. If they catch macro exploiters they do ban them. Your choice of course, me I wouldnt push the GMs on this issue, they stated their position on it clearly. I daresay they do not. I have petitioned the same 2 sets of macro miners 4 times over 3 weeks. If they haven't bothered to take a look by now they are not likely to. I can sit in the belt and watch their macros at work, cycling every 7 mins and 45 seconds (hauler to and from station, barring the times I blow it up). So... Wasps FTW.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.01.06 04:17:00 - [41] Originally by: Spy4Hire I daresay they do not. I have petitioned the same 2 sets of macro miners 4 times over 3 weeks. If they haven't bothered to take a look by now they are not likely to. I can sit in the belt and watch their macros at work, cycling every 7 mins and 45 seconds (hauler to and from station, barring the times I blow it up). So... Wasps FTW. It's illegal to drive above the speed limit, but people still do it. Ergo, I can beat you over the head with an axe and nobody has the right to tell me I did anything wrong. Get a grip, man. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Ituralde	Posted - 2006.01.06 04:28:00 - [42] Originally by: blood red if only a client patch can fix this does this mean that EVE client is hackable and exploitable? people with even little experience can mod the client, could this possibly be done? I am pretty sure the client patch needs to be done only for the sake of compatability with the servers. I bet if you hax the client than the server will be "OMG HAX" (and by that I mean some kind message that says not compatible or something of the like). Plus, I think they will probably deploy some other fixes, too.
Hamatitio	Posted - 2006.01.06 04:33:00 - [43] All you npcers are bringing up null points. The NPCs wont file a petition against you, therefore you are fine. And in PVP, you can use another damage type :) ----
Gaah	Posted - 2006.01.06 05:13:00 - [44] Missiles also have abnormal tracking capabilities compared to all guns. Is it an exploit to use them now too?! And can I petition the NPCs who always hit me for maximum damage with their missiles? Using items in the way they are intended is NOT an exploit! -- My name is Gaah. It's what I say when my ship blows up.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2006.01.06 05:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Hamatitio All you npcers are bringing up null points. The NPCs wont file a petition against you, therefore you are fine. And in PVP, you can use another damage type :) And we have a winner in the "I can read" contest. It's a shame that the mistake was made, but made it was, use it against NPC's if you wish it doesn't DIRECTLY affect any other pilot. In PvP it has MASSIVE consequences, as per the post I put up earlier yesterday. Far beyond just killing ONE ship. So, less whining. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
Driven	Posted - 2006.01.06 06:22:00 - [46] The juxtapositioning of this sticky thread below the one on ISK pharming/macro mining is very revealing. So we have a mistake in a very recent patch which causes a slight combat imbalance and all you can hear is the loud noise of GM's insta-swooping in to declare "EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT". I am betting that this issue affects maybe 5-10% of the player community at most, but apparently its a big deal to CCP. Meanwhile: Several thousand "players" pharm ISK for months and months and months, which affects practically every legitimate player in the game in a very negative way, and in ever-growing swarms, like locusts come to devour the harvest, and the silence from CCP is deafening. Actions speak louder than words.
Galk	Posted - 2006.01.06 06:30:00 - [47] Originally by: Eris Discordia As you can read in the annoucements using these drones is an exploit and if you have lost a ships to them you can go to Ask A Question then go Reimbursement and ask if you can have your ship replaced. Please give as many details as you have regarding your loss as it may help the GM"s to verify these drones were used. Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. This applies to both tech I and tech II Wasp Drones. GM Annoucement Can we please get clarification on the wasps on NPC missions being classed as an exploit from an offical source in the in game news channel by a GM. Not everybody reads the forums to see this seperate anouncement of wasp usage being classed as an exploit on npc missions. It would be a tad more professional if this anouncement were made by a GM in game. ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:)
Sarela	Posted - 2006.01.06 06:36:00 - [48] Originally by: Driven The juxtapositioning of this sticky thread below the one on ISK pharming/macro mining is very revealing. So we have a mistake in a very recent patch which causes a slight combat imbalance and all you can hear is the loud noise of GM's insta-swooping in to declare "EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT". I am betting that this issue affects maybe 5-10% of the player community at most, but apparently its a big deal to CCP. Meanwhile: Several thousand "players" pharm ISK for months and months and months, which affects practically every legitimate player in the game in a very negative way, and in ever-growing swarms, like locusts come to devour the harvest, and the silence from CCP is deafening. Actions speak louder than words. This sais it all. The only thing I can see that seperates the two is ISK.. and I mean real ISK here. Just for the sake of numbers: 2000 Macro Mining accounts = 24,000 USD per month or 288,000 USD per year. (unconfirmed example figures) 4000 Wasp users = many petitions, unsubscribed accounts, product re-imbursements for digital property lost due to exploit... Hmmm yes... which would I address first... A 1/4 Mil in revenue. or quell a coding error till a server upgrade is completed so that time will allow work on the next patch.. Hmmm..
Dianabolic	Posted - 2006.01.06 06:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Galk Originally by: Eris Discordia As you can read in the annoucements using these drones is an exploit and if you have lost a ships to them you can go to Ask A Question then go Reimbursement and ask if you can have your ship replaced. Please give as many details as you have regarding your loss as it may help the GM"s to verify these drones were used. Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. This applies to both tech I and tech II Wasp Drones. GM Annoucement Can we please get clarification on the wasps on NPC missions being classed as an exploit from an offical source in the in game news channel by a GM. Not everybody reads the forums to see this seperate anouncement of wasp usage being classed as an exploit on npc missions. It would be a tad more professional if this anouncement were made by a GM in game. You do know this is on the in-game news, right? Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.01.06 06:37:00 - [50] Just a thought; but because drones are single damage type specific; the instruction not to use Wasp variants because it is now regarded an exploit gives regular users of the other 3 damage types an unfair advantage which by definition is also an exploit. Surely therefore, the announcement should have been that "the use of all heavy drones is currently considered an exploit until the Wasp variant bug issues have been addressed". Harsh I know; but it would at least be fairer....
DARTHEXIDOUS	Posted - 2006.01.06 06:41:00 - [51] For the hard of understanding:You cant use wasps 1&2 drones due to exploit simple hey. So use mediums or what ever till they sort problem out.Overcome and adapt is my moto.
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.01.06 06:57:00 - [52] gms devs etc, i feel for u guys..
Mister Meaner	Posted - 2006.01.06 07:17:00 - [53] Great thing i read for forums at work, first most of the drone changes are pretty much broken, now it is an exploit to use heavys of 1 damage type. So are ccp going to reimurse me for a month on meanys account, for screwing up my gameplay with a programming fault then screaming exploit when it was there own fault it happened. Drones are my major damage or were since i guess i cant play meany till the patch, wouldnt want to miss another announcement and get banned for exploitation due to CCP errors. Really really really not happy with this announcement at all.
Crayathan	Posted - 2006.01.06 07:35:00 - [54] Erm......I hate exploits as much as the next person, but I must say this is pushing the boundries, wasps are a primary combat weapon just turning round and saying "opps we screwed up they are now an exploit" is just whacked Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil
Moadyb	Posted - 2006.01.06 07:47:00 - [55] I can't believe what I'm reading here! Dear CCP, please note that not all players are bloody idiots. What you did is the best course of action, and 99% of Eve do see it that way too. Also, I wouldn't mind if you would ban everyone who bitshed in this thread, we are better off without them.
sonofollo	Posted - 2006.01.06 08:05:00 - [56] DISABLE WASP DROENS IN THE GAME UNTIL IT IS FIXED CCP ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT - MAKE IT THEY CANT BE PUT INTO THE DRONE BAY OR DEPLOYED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE - TAKE NOTE OF SIMPLE LOGIC Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw.
SpaceKing	Posted - 2006.01.06 08:25:00 - [57] yeah lets disable all drones, could be fun since i have been reading drone skills for a long time and have been concetrating on the wasp II and now i cant do nothing, this sucks, get it fixed...
SengH	Posted - 2006.01.06 08:27:00 - [58] Oh noes.. someone took out my travelling shuttle the other day with WASP drones... maybe I should petition? /emote runs before all the ppl with more important petitions of faction loot pile on him :P
Uncle Angus	Posted - 2006.01.06 09:10:00 - [59] Edited by: Uncle Angus on 06/01/2006 09:10:25 I was using Wasps in a combat mission the other day - unaware of this "advantage" they have - and unfortunately for me they all got destroyed... So they're obviously not that good!! Guess I should hold off buying new ones for now, though...
Matthew	Posted - 2006.01.06 09:16:00 - [60] Originally by: sonofollo DISABLE WASP DROENS IN THE GAME UNTIL IT IS FIXED CCP ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT - MAKE IT THEY CANT BE PUT INTO THE DRONE BAY OR DEPLOYED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE - TAKE NOTE OF SIMPLE LOGIC Of course, disabling them completely is an even bigger change than just fixing them, so would inevitably require a similar level of patching. Which means that the earliest point at which they could disable them is also the earliest point at which they could fix them, so the disabling step would serve no purpose. Given the delay between this fault being known, and the exploit announcement being made, I'd say that the GMs have held off on it for as long as they could, in the hope that players would act responsibly over the issue. However, now that it's become clear that this isn't happening, and many players are deliberately using this fault to their advantage, the GMs would have been left with no other choice. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Roga Midrennie	Posted - 2006.01.06 09:24:00 - [61] I dont understand why this requires more than 10 minutes to fix. Why would it need a client patch? Surely all that needs doing is for someone to move the decimal point in the tracking figure of wasps, 2 places to the left of where it is now in the server Db.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.01.06 09:34:00 - [62] If CCP would let them be, they're punishing those players that do not use exploits by choice. If they repress wasp usage by announcing measures to be taken against users, they punish those that don't know or don't want to care. I'd say they've done the right thing. Punishing the ignorant always ranks higher then punishing the true. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Katamarino	Posted - 2006.01.06 09:48:00 - [63] And a big thankyou to the Devs for their responses to the many questions that have been put forward in this thread...oh, hang on
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2006.01.06 10:05:00 - [64] LOLOCOPTER @ those whining about not being able to use Wasps in NPC missions. 'sploit I cry! That is all. ^^ Almost strangely poetic. 23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC
Ysolde Xen	Posted - 2006.01.06 10:27:00 - [65] The number of people in the last week or 2 I've seen saying "use Wasps - the Devs typoed the tracking and now they're fantastic!!1!"... hundreds if not thousands. It's not an 'innocent' mistake for a lot of people now complaining. Some did say "if it's bugged like that, it'll be banned so don't risk it" but they were mostly drowned out by those seeing an advantage that was blatantly an exploit caused by Dev error It was said all over these forums, in locals the regions over and even in the Empire channels. Every day someone asking about drones would be told by a plethora of replies that Wasps were the way to go because they were bugged in a good way. For the genuine few who really had no idea that the Wasps were borked and have no means of swapping to a different drone type because they're out in 0.0, try petitioning it be as a Stuck petition? For the rest of you who knew and capitalised on it - it was blatantly an exploit and now they've finally caught up. DEAL. ----- Just because you couldn't get a ship to do what you wanted doesn't mean it's a crap ship - it means you're a crap pilot of that ship.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.01.06 10:39:00 - [66] I think this is the clearest CCP has gone out telling the players somthing is considered an exploit ever, in the past they have been alot vaguer. If I was an dominix pilot (wich I happen to partly be... wow, it just dawned on me that I really can fly more than Minmatar ships even tho I have done alot of missions in a dominix, till now its just been for fun I supose) I would choose to not use my wasps (sigh, I think I have a wasp or two in all my ships capable of using heavy combat drones) and as soon as I could would replace them with non wasps. After all their use has been deemed an exploit. To the question what I would do if XXX was deemed an exploit... Lets say my favorite gun came under this, the 1400 artillery piece, I would as soon as I could refit other guns on the ship, the 1200's arent as hard hitting but they are very good guns too and I would definently not be caught using them if CCP had made it so abundantly clear using them is considered an exploit, abusing an exploit will give you a warning if you are lucky and a ban if you are not. Why chance it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Sob, didnt get to keep my dev quote any longer. Oh well It lasted longer than I thought it would :)
Therem Harth	Posted - 2006.01.06 10:57:00 - [67] I have a simple question to mods/devs - say, I have a battleship out in 0.0, which happens to have Wasps in drone bay, because it was the way it was fitted when I disembarked from the base. I have no possibility to swap drones simply because there are no other types available where the battleship is; being that it is not really mine (or anyone's) fault that Wasps are currently broken, can I petition or do something else to have my Wasps be automagically changed to an equivalent heavy drone load?
Basileus	Posted - 2006.01.06 11:19:00 - [68] This is just very silly. Daft mistake, dafter 'solution' still.
Glassback	Posted - 2006.01.06 11:31:00 - [69] Phffff, so I can't use them to shoot rats? I can understand them not being used in PvP cause i'd be annoyed by a large drone hitting my 'ceptor, but not against NPC's. CCP, this issue has been around for a while now, why didnt you make the patch instead of threatening us? Poor show, imo. G. I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.01.06 11:38:00 - [70] Originally by: Therem Harth I have a simple question to mods/devs - say, I have a battleship out in 0.0, which happens to have Wasps in drone bay, because it was the way it was fitted when I disembarked from the base. I have no possibility to swap drones simply because there are no other types available where the battleship is; being that it is not really mine (or anyone's) fault that Wasps are currently broken, can I petition or do something else to have my Wasps be automagically changed to an equivalent heavy drone load? Actually there is a way to switch. Get an alt or buddy to bring out a set of non wasp heavy drones and meet him in space. Next have him launch the drones and abandon them. You then launch your wasps and scoop the abandoned heavy drones into your dronebay and abandon the wasps. The alt/buddy can then scoop your drones and head back in. I know this works as I have been the proud owner of 9 active medium drones guarding my vagabond. I was doing a complex in a cosmos area where there were loads of abandoned drones, I launched my own drone (it only has space for 1 medium) and then scooped the abandoned one after the other into my dronebay and relaunched them into space. I must say it felt really good to have the 9 drone swarm (dont have both the old drone skills maxed) round my vaga. While its nolonger possible to have over 5 drones in a non carrier ship (apart from the guardian vexor possibly) I do think its still possible to scoop abandoned drones into your dronebay. Problem solved :)
Glassback	Posted - 2006.01.06 11:44:00 - [71] Originally by: Fester Addams Originally by: Therem Harth I have a simple question to mods/devs - say, I have a battleship out in 0.0, which happens to have Wasps in drone bay, because it was the way it was fitted when I disembarked from the base. I have no possibility to swap drones simply because there are no other types available where the battleship is; being that it is not really mine (or anyone's) fault that Wasps are currently broken, can I petition or do something else to have my Wasps be automagically changed to an equivalent heavy drone load? Actually there is a way to switch. Get an alt or buddy to bring out a set of non wasp heavy drones and meet him in space. Next have him launch the drones and abandon them. You then launch your wasps and scoop the abandoned heavy drones into your dronebay and abandon the wasps. The alt/buddy can then scoop your drones and head back in. I know this works as I have been the proud owner of 9 active medium drones guarding my vagabond. I was doing a complex in a cosmos area where there were loads of abandoned drones, I launched my own drone (it only has space for 1 medium) and then scooped the abandoned one after the other into my dronebay and relaunched them into space. I must say it felt really good to have the 9 drone swarm (dont have both the old drone skills maxed) round my vaga. While its nolonger possible to have over 5 drones in a non carrier ship (apart from the guardian vexor possibly) I do think its still possible to scoop abandoned drones into your dronebay. Problem solved :) This is probably an exploit too. G. I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about
marioman	Posted - 2006.01.06 11:47:00 - [72] Originally by: Eris Discordia Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. Wouldnt this mean that people who fight rats who are weak against the other 3 dmg types that use heavy drones are now also exploiting this game mechanic b/c they have an advantage over those fighting guristas since they have to use medium/small kinetic type drones since using a wasp is exploiting a game mechanic? So in turn why isnt it considered an exploit to use heavy drones period when the CCP definition of "exploit" is to use a game mechanic to gain an advantage over other players, which people not fighting guristas currently have an advantage over those that do. (BTW no im not using wasps, im using ogres and fighting sanshas, therefore i have the advantage over all you folks fighting guristas )
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2006.01.06 11:48:00 - [73] First they nerf um....Now they ban them....Drones...The great time waster... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:05:00 - [74] Originally by: Glassback This is probably an exploit too. G. If you use it to get more than you should be able to drones into space I expect its a non intended feature and thus can be called an exploit (I think I bugreported it... in any case I have not used it since then). Scooping abandoned drones into your dronebay however is not and thus can be used to refurnish a ship far far out into 0.0 with new drones without having to bring the ship back to a station.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:08:00 - [75] Originally by: marioman Originally by: Eris Discordia Using them in missions is also an exploit as they give you a advantage due to a game mechanic that needs to be fixed. Wouldnt this mean that people who fight rats who are weak against the other 3 dmg types that use heavy drones are now also exploiting this game mechanic b/c they have an advantage over those fighting guristas since they have to use medium/small kinetic type drones since using a wasp is exploiting a game mechanic? So in turn why isnt it considered an exploit to use heavy drones period when the CCP definition of "exploit" is to use a game mechanic to gain an advantage over other players, which people not fighting guristas currently have an advantage over those that do. (BTW no im not using wasps, im using ogres and fighting sanshas, therefore i have the advantage over all you folks fighting guristas ) Actually an expoit is when you use a feature in a way that is not the way it is intended to work. Usually this comes down to exploiting a bug hence the affectionate name exploit. Using a game feature as intended is naturally not an exploit... but then you are just trying to be funny :)
TekRa	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:20:00 - [76] rabble rabble rabble! _____________________________________ The zenith of hypocrisy.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:35:00 - [77] This is just a lousy example of a poor check up on release of RMR. Flagging system, Wasp, Tons of bugs. Go CCP.
Camel S	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:39:00 - [78] Since when is unbalanced an unfair advantage? Everytime CCP decides to balance something it usually gets nerfed and something else becomes overpowered and unbalanced. Infact this entire game is unfair but everybody is given the same opportunities and as a player you are allowed to do anything and suffer the IG consequences of your actions. This is why we love it soo much! Maybe the GM's are bored and needs more petitions because I can find no just reason why the hottest weapon/module of the month should be an exploit.
Regel	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:54:00 - [79] I think this is lame. If it's really going to be fixed in the next few days they should have just put up with it. Using an existing game item in the way it was intended without doing anything special to get an advantage is hardly what I would call an "exploit" anyway. Now what the guy a few posts up described in how he gets a large fleet of drones by scooping up and relaunching abandoned drones in complexes really IS an exploit. If the Wasp thing was such a big deal they should fix it or replace them with some other drone until they get their act together. But seriously, if a straightforward fix like this can't be done almost instantly their code base is in much worse state than I had thought. They're giving me UO flashbacks now. :)
Katamarino	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:58:00 - [80] Originally by: Regel Using an existing game item in the way it was intended without doing anything special to get an advantage is hardly what I would call an "exploit" anyway. Now what the guy a few posts up described in how he gets a large fleet of drones by scooping up and relaunching abandoned drones in complexes really IS an exploit. How is it an exploit? He has to find those drones there, scoop them one at a time, then can't warp anywhere or he loses them all again. Sounds like a rather specialised tactic, and the fact that you CAN control 9 drones and just dont happen to have space for them in the ship should in no way mean you can't still use 9 drones if you find them!
Drilla	Posted - 2006.01.06 13:00:00 - [81] Uhmm, why is this value just not changed during the next downtime on the server? Is the value stored locally then? Can you say aimbot for EVE within a few weeks now .... Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
Krakkan	Posted - 2006.01.06 13:01:00 - [82] wow so many babies in this thread.. ned isk cant use drones buhuu..
Regel	Posted - 2006.01.06 13:06:00 - [83] Originally by: Katamarino Originally by: Regel Using an existing game item in the way it was intended without doing anything special to get an advantage is hardly what I would call an "exploit" anyway. Now what the guy a few posts up described in how he gets a large fleet of drones by scooping up and relaunching abandoned drones in complexes really IS an exploit. How is it an exploit? He has to find those drones there, scoop them one at a time, then can't warp anywhere or he loses them all again. Sounds like a rather specialised tactic, and the fact that you CAN control 9 drones and just dont happen to have space for them in the ship should in no way mean you can't still use 9 drones if you find them! It's an exploit because with the latest patch CCP put in code that was intended to make controlling a fleet of more than 5 drones impossible. The "tactic" this fellow is using is taking advantage of an obvious oversight in their programming. It's a classic exploit - unlike this Wasp thing.
moroti	Posted - 2006.01.06 13:10:00 - [84] Originally by: Regel It's an exploit because with the latest patch CCP put in code that was intended to make controlling a fleet of more than 5 drones impossible. The "tactic" this fellow is using is taking advantage of an obvious oversight in their programming. It's a classic exploit - unlike this Wasp thing. Except the poster was talking about Pre-RMR drones with Drones 5 and DI 4 I believe from reading the post. A similar situation now would be running 5 Heavies from a ship with a bay that can only carry 1. Though I'm sure I saw someone mention that was also considered an exploit the last time this subject came up.
Phyra	Posted - 2006.01.06 13:14:00 - [85] It's been like this for weeks....and now a fix is supposedly a few days ahead and you come up with a crappy idea like this. really great. FIX THE DRONES ALL OF THEM. The other drones are bugged not the wasps btw. their tracking is so ridiculous they cant even keep up with their own orbitting speed. Funny funny idea.
Ashunto Derenga	Posted - 2006.01.06 14:00:00 - [86] Edited by: Ashunto Derenga on 06/01/2006 14:01:31 I think i¦ll continue to use Wasps on missions, this will make up for the fact that: - Drones get stuck on each other (reducing dps) - Drones decide to not usw MWD or crawl at 10m/s (reducing dps) - Ogres/Hammerheads not able to hit a webbed target - Drones, after killing the first target in the first group decide to just aggro everything from here to hell Funny how something that work for us players (damage wise,ya i can see the probs in PVP) gets attention, while the bugs that reduce our ability to do DPS are ignored for month
Katamarino	Posted - 2006.01.06 14:02:00 - [87] Originally by: moroti Originally by: Regel It's an exploit because with the latest patch CCP put in code that was intended to make controlling a fleet of more than 5 drones impossible. The "tactic" this fellow is using is taking advantage of an obvious oversight in their programming. It's a classic exploit - unlike this Wasp thing. Except the poster was talking about Pre-RMR drones with Drones 5 and DI 4 I believe from reading the post. QFT :)
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.01.06 14:03:00 - [88] Originally by: moroti Originally by: Regel It's an exploit because with the latest patch CCP put in code that was intended to make controlling a fleet of more than 5 drones impossible. The "tactic" this fellow is using is taking advantage of an obvious oversight in their programming. It's a classic exploit - unlike this Wasp thing. Except the poster was talking about Pre-RMR drones with Drones 5 and DI 4 I believe from reading the post. A similar situation now would be running 5 Heavies from a ship with a bay that can only carry 1. Though I'm sure I saw someone mention that was also considered an exploit the last time this subject came up. ' Yes, I was talking about pre RMR, Im sorry if that was unclear but like Moroti here points out you can, as far as I know, have 5 heavy drones under control from a ship with only 25m3 dronebay. Naturally this can have been changed, like I pointed out I realized that you could do this, I think I reported it and have since then not atempted it. You see its anoying to put it together if you are like me moving alot and frequently fly alone as it requires someone to abandon drones that you can steal. If it does get used much by gate guards in 0.0 however I very much expect the issue will be clamped down on (if it has not already happened). note to self: dont talk about this kind of stuff on the forums, people keep getting ideas from it. in any case, I offered the sugestion to the 0.0 player that is sitting FAAAAR out in 0.0 and dont want to head back in so that they can replace their wasps for other heavy drones without having to leave their prefered systems. You see it is possible, just needs a tad of effort.
Princess Morenta	Posted - 2006.01.06 14:12:00 - [89] Originally by: Gaah Missiles also have abnormal tracking capabilities compared to all guns. Is it an exploit to use them now too?! And can I petition the NPCs who always hit me for maximum damage with their missiles? Using items in the way they are intended is NOT an exploit! I got WTFBBQOWNED By a NPC cruise missile hitting for 750.00..... WTF???
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.01.06 14:15:00 - [90] I like CCP and what they do, BUT this issue is quite frankly a joke, and it has been handled very poorly. I am in deep 0.0 NPC-ing guristas with an armour-tanking vampadomi. Wasps are my damage dealers. What the hell am I supposed to do? Nos the rats and tank them, then call them names? Perhaps one of the GM's would like to haul a load of ogres the 15 jumps from empire in a hauler for me, good luck at the gate camps. Because I sure as hell am not doing that myself. This is not my mistake and I do not see why I should waste my time trying to 'fix' it. I do have some Berserkers but as guristas are tanked for explosive damage, it would completely gimp my setup and I probably would be unable to kill the larger BS's. Sort it out CCP.
Pain Chick	Posted - 2006.01.06 16:45:00 - [91] Sorry, But a community board announcement is not offical. When I get an in game message I will consider it offical. IF you think I read your silly boards daily then you need a RL.
Xroxor	Posted - 2006.01.06 16:59:00 - [92] How do you consider it an exploit? We all know about it, CCP knows about it and eveyone is able to use them. I say ~PARTY~
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.01.06 18:31:00 - [93] Originally by: Pain Chick Sorry, But a community board announcement is not offical. When I get an in game message I will consider it offical. IF you think I read your silly boards daily then you need a RL.YARRRR!! Originally by: Xroxor How do you consider it an exploit? We all know about it, CCP knows about it and eveyone is able to use them. I say ~PARTY~ Naturally you two do as you please but when it gets on the login news posted by a GM then its about as official as it is ever going to get. Ignore it at your own peril.
Duana	Posted - 2006.01.06 19:41:00 - [94] Edited by: Duana on 06/01/2006 19:46:16 Way to take the responsibility... oh wait... nvm. Telling players not to use them is ridiculous and completely breaks the illusion of a "virtual world" Instead of doing something like telling users not to use them, why not do something like warn the user it's a criminal act and have concord blow them up if they use them? Or can that not be done without changing client code... -------------------- Juffo-Wup fills my fibers and I grow turgid. Violent action ensues.
Dillon Braveheart	Posted - 2006.01.06 19:46:00 - [95] ---- NEWS JUST IN ---- Flying a spacecraft in space is now a exploit please leave your ship in the station n fly in pod as we was late to state we messed up with a patch a few days away so we waited tto tell everyone its an exploit .... duuuuuu
Gaah	Posted - 2006.01.06 19:48:00 - [96] Analogy: If I embed code in a WMF image that hacks your registry and crashes your computer, that's an exploit. If I embed code in a WMF file that is supposed to load an alternate image if the WMF doesn't render properly, and loading that image crashes your computer due to a separate OS problem, that is not an exploit. So... If a Domi kills a pair of attacking Harpies faster than normal because of the Wasp bug, he is not exploiting because he's doing what comes naturally. If PA assembles an Imicus Fleet of D00mÖ and WTFPWNS all of BoB's HACs, that is an exploit, since they would not normally use an Imicus for that... or for anything, for that matter. -- My name is Gaah. It's what I say when my ship blows up.
Galk	Posted - 2006.01.06 20:00:00 - [97] It's still not been explained if this is an exploit against npc's. Im sorry but the in game gm announcement is misleading. "it is now considered an exploit to use them in combat and all players caught using them in combat from now on, will receive an official warning. Any losses caused by Wasp drones (before and after this announcement) can be petitioned It implies that it is limited to player combat (loses) Thats the problem i have, with the 'forum only' anouncement by a isd forum moderator and not a gm (iv'e been told by a forum mod before that they have absolutely no authority over in game rules and policy) Today it has to be said an isd member in the help channel was telling people it 'wasn't' an exploit to use against NPC'S The typical senerio of this is X player see's mission runner using wasp drones, X player reports said player, then X player is at the mercy of the gm lottery... aka the which one you get senerio.... ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:)

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2006.01.06 20:02:00 - [98] When I made this thread I also asked a GM regarding missions, he answered me that using these drones in missions will be considered an exploit as well. Mail [email protected] for questions or to report bad threads in need of my loving touch My broken heart leaves my mind in pieces, temptation wins in the end

Galk	Posted - 2006.01.06 20:08:00 - [99] Then cannot we have an anouncement to that effect? There's no harm in it, as i said it might go around in the forum, but most don't read the forum. Only fair i think all things considered. ______ 862 buses later, galks back on the road again:)
retardsn	Posted - 2006.01.06 21:10:00 - [100] yesterday, a wasp stung me in real life... where do i petition?
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2006.01.06 21:21:00 - [101] Edited by: Qutsemnie on 06/01/2006 21:23:09 Edited by: Qutsemnie on 06/01/2006 21:22:15 Even if you removed wasp tracking from the equation it wouldnt justify a ban for agent running imo. There are only handful of ships in agent missions that are difficult for a wasp to hit. Since everyone can only carry 5. Since missions dont pay out all that much. Since an improved to hit rate is only going to substantially effect a wasp DOT on a few rat types. I have to offer a quote once said by a guildmate in another context: if you ban me for using your bugged wasp its your loss. Im not buying a whole new set of temporary drones to avoid a minor gain in dps against NPCs for a minor gain in rewards over time cause someone unrealistically thinks its worth threatening my account over. And you guys need to take a breather and talk it over before threatening it. PvP ok. Agent missions. right.. specially on the day you ruined my play time for your stupid insecure passwords! Threaten it tomorrow.
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2006.01.06 21:30:00 - [102] All im saying is that if your telling people if they do something as not attempting to exploit like "deploying your drones in your drone bay and telling them to engage target against an NPC" will result in a ban because of a bug in their DOT then your developement team better be calling their wives and telling them they wont be coming home tonite while brewing the coffee.. Cause thats ridicolous.
Aryth	Posted - 2006.01.06 21:32:00 - [103] Originally by: Eris Discordia When I made this thread I also asked a GM regarding missions, he answered me that using these drones in missions will be considered an exploit as well. Ok im sorry if you already answered this but when you say missions...you only refer to agent missions and its ok to npc hunt with them? Because I hunt guristas and I gots to make me some money....oh and I use a dom. I've noticed the tracking bug and was using them to hunt npc's before the announcement and the only thing that was that different was they killed the npc frigs a little faster. "We demand ridgedly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
VantDre	Posted - 2006.01.06 21:45:00 - [104] This is stupid.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2006.01.06 22:28:00 - [105] Originally by: DARTHEXIDOUS For the hard of understanding:You cant use wasps 1&2 drones due to exploit simple hey. So use mediums or what ever till they sort problem out.Overcome and adapt is my moto. Mediums can't hit Frigates. Therefor this is a severe penalty to anyone who is based in Minamtar Drone Specialization. Let's ban Mega Pulse for a month! ____________________ I'm not an idiot; I just play one on the forums.
Drilla	Posted - 2006.01.07 00:06:00 - [106] Instead of coming out yelling OMGWTFXPLOIT!!!1 how about you (CCP) explain to us why it's not just a simple database value that needs to be changed. What does it affect that you cant change it during a normal downtime? I'm curious as to why this hasn't been fixed, I'd just like an explanation as to why it's just not a small change in the WASPs database values? Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
Lori Carlyle	Posted - 2006.01.07 01:00:00 - [107] While you made the game, you wrote the code, You made the wasps that way, Until a patch changes it, the wasps stay in my drone bay, and i WILL use them, After all my raven holds 3 wasps and if i were to swap them i'd go for 5 light drones, therefore i'm creating less lag by A. Using 3 drones and not 5. B. Killin NPCs faster. If i was PVP i'd stop using them as i'd have honor to win via skills and tactics and not errors in your handywork, for NPC i really don't see an issue here.. 400x120@24000 bytes max please. -Capsicum
Mylia Voklanev	Posted - 2006.01.07 01:01:00 - [108] Originally by: Drilla Instead of coming out yelling OMGWTFXPLOIT!!!1 how about you (CCP) explain to us why it's not just a simple database value that needs to be changed. What does it affect that you cant change it during a normal downtime? I'm curious as to why this hasn't been fixed, I'd just like an explanation as to why it's just not a small change in the WASPs database values? My guess is that the tracking is done client side rather than server side in order to keep the server load down. Although this seems like a bad idea to me.
MWEI	Posted - 2006.01.07 02:24:00 - [109] Well even if I can use them to NPC I wont anyway. I mean, so they can hit anything there is, cool, sounds very cheap way to get lots cash? Not really, if you are talking about battleships, they can hit them anyway, extra tracking has no effect If you are talking about cruisers, so they can hit them all the time, wonderful, but wait, medium drones does the same thing, similar damage, but gets to the target WAY faster to cancel out any minor damage advantage wasp has over them. If you are talking about frigates, true, being able to kill frigates with heavys is very very cheap, but then again, thats under the condition your heavys can catch up to the frigte rats, which, tbh, is so inefficent its much faster if you just use light drones So the final line? exploit to use them on npc or not, dosnt change much, the only threat is in pvp.
Ulthar	Posted - 2006.01.07 03:32:00 - [110] Edited by: Ulthar on 07/01/2006 03:32:20 Using any bug for in-game gain is an exploit and has been since beta. I don't know where people get the idea that it could be anything else. Perhaps it needs to be reinforced in the EULA? Something along the lines of exploiting a bug for any reason will get one banned? Oh wait. "You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website." and You will use the CCP bug reporting tools in accordance with their policy and will not intentionally submit misinformation or hide information required by the bug report forms. Straight from the Code of Conduct. Hmmm, guess it is covered after all. Learn something every day, I guess. Ulthar Adopt a Paramilitary today! Support your patriots!
theRaptor	Posted - 2006.01.07 03:43:00 - [111] Originally by: Duana Edited by: Duana on 06/01/2006 19:48:20 Way to take the responsibility... oh wait... nvm. Telling players not to use them is ridiculous and completely breaks the illusion of a "virtual world" Instead of doing something like telling users not to use them, why not do something like warn the user it's a criminal act and have concord blow them up if they use them (even in low sec lol)? Or can that not be done without changing client code... Yea, it's an outrageous fix to the problem, but at least it doesn't break the "EVE" experience in the process. Because you muppet that would take a client side patch. In the next frigging client side patch they are fixing the bug. And if you didn't want to break the illusion of a virtual world you wouldn't be posting on OOC forums. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Maver1ck	Posted - 2006.01.07 04:12:00 - [112] CAN YOU STOP CALLING CCP DEV MISTAKE AN EXPLOIT. WE ARE NOT THE ONE THAT SHOULD ALLWAYS SUFFER.
Dareenii Ulthar	Posted - 2006.01.07 04:27:00 - [113] Originally by: Maver1ck CAN YOU STOP CALLING CCP DEV MISTAKE AN EXPLOIT. WE ARE NOT THE ONE THAT SHOULD ALLWAYS SUFFER. No, a dev mistake is a BUG. Using that bug to your advantage is the exploit.
R3dSh1ft	Posted - 2006.01.07 07:50:00 - [114] You screwed up, not the players, its not an exploit, it's a BUG. ___________________________________________ R3dSh1ft, I want the same thing as every other player in EVE; fame and fortune
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.01.07 11:29:00 - [115] Originally by: R3dSh1ft You screwed up, not the players, its not an exploit, it's a BUG. Yea, and if players could somehow duplicate items without paying for it, that's a bug too and not an exploit.
Esrevatem Dlareme	Posted - 2006.01.07 11:56:00 - [116] You know. It's somewhat ironic that since the patch, altho I have several wasp I's and II's, I actually havent used them. I saw this announcement and went in game an looked...and my wasp II's track at 42.9 rad/s. Which is basically fast enough to hit even interceptors, given their 125m sig resolution. I would have to seriously question how CCP would ever know if a player used wasps on an NPC mission or not, unless they decided to go thru their logs with a fine tooth comb and punish everyone, even thos who didn't yet know. This of course would not sit well with a lot of people, as others in the thread have mentioned there really is more important stuff to be looking into. And furthermore CCP can't really prove that someone did know it was an exploit, unless they happened to see them post about it here on the forums somewhere, so given all this I doubt NPC's will be punished in any way, unless reported by another player, and even then most could claim ignorance. Of course, I'm one of those ppl that won't take advantage of a situation even tho I know I won't get caught. I needed to train up other Drone Spec skills anyway... ______________________________________________ As I stand, dazzled by the shattered twilight, I think back... I think back to all the events that have brought me here. And I realize... I realize I was ment to come here. Someone wanted me to come here. And now, I have come here.
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2006.01.07 12:35:00 - [117] Edited by: Peter Armstrong on 07/01/2006 12:41:11 U know i read on the first page and a half and i say this to people that complain. STFU!! I mean tuff. Its a bug and u have to deal with it. Its been on the website etc so people will know. If they dont then why? Geez man People need STFU and let CCP try and get this sorted for crying out load. CCP Thanks for the news and thxs for working hard!! Simple wasp cant be used so wait or chage not hard where EVER u are!! ITs an Exploit!! Taken advantage of a bug over NPC and Players!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dark Skyes Website Under Construct
Ifni	Posted - 2006.01.07 12:53:00 - [118] And yet, people are still using wasps in combat.
Dendrin Koljn	Posted - 2006.01.07 13:04:00 - [119] Originally by: Ifni And yet, people are still using wasps in combat. OK now im confused - i thought the whole point was that the wasps nvr missed - well it looks like they hardly ever hit - so whats the prob ???
Tasuric Orka	Posted - 2006.01.07 15:59:00 - [120] The fact ccp screwed up does not mean its ok to take advantage of it. using it andsaying something along the lines of"LOLZ STFU NOOB IT R IN TEH GAME SO I USE IT!1" makes you an cheating bastard, that simple.
xbreaka	Posted - 2006.01.07 17:47:00 - [121] just dont use them for pvp guys geez, rat hunting fine unless for example guristas nation files a suppory ticket against you which is unlikely.
MakkAnzy	Posted - 2006.01.07 19:44:00 - [122] Well you can ban me as that is pretty much saying I cannot use T2 Drones till you fix your coding area. T2 Wasps FTW whislt I rat, if I get banned then nice time to move on :D Get some better customer care people peeps!
Arnt	Posted - 2006.01.07 19:47:00 - [123] If using wasp drones is to be called "an exploit", how must we call "not fixing wasp drones"?
McClan	Posted - 2006.01.07 22:45:00 - [124] CCP makes the Game, CCP makes the wasp drones. CCP wrote the code for the DRones. IF CCP CANT DO THAT RIGHT, IT IS NOT THE PLAYERS FALT.
The Enlightened	Posted - 2006.01.08 01:51:00 - [125] This whole issue smells like BS. But i see why CCP would make it easy by saying 'you can't use em at all' instead of saying 'please don't use em on frigates'. Because really that's the only type of ships against which they are 'unfair' and i sure want to kill those figates fast when they enage me when i'm in any ship that CAN actually carry heavy drones! ZOMG uber damage frigs... ahum :-)
BloodSpoon	Posted - 2006.01.08 02:40:00 - [126] i hope wasp II Drone BPO owners get compensated for loss of revenue "Arguing about lag is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win you still look like a retard"
Condemner	Posted - 2006.01.08 04:26:00 - [127] utter BS granted it's an exploit to use on players i can deal with that but to say u can't use them on missions or npc's is just stupid wtf do we do for damage? if in a vampadom or vampatar with the kin drones as our only damage and why can't we get a GM to post on this problem
Twisted Xistance	Posted - 2006.01.08 05:03:00 - [128] To be fair I kinda think what the devs were getting at when they said USING WASP DRONES IS NOW AN EXPLOIT was dont use them against players because it gives you an unfair advantage lol who's going to know if you use them to rat hunt. not that I have lol, dont even think I have the skills for them anymore, stupid race drone skills.!. -First there was nothing then there was Xistance, then it all got kinda Twisted-
Ifni	Posted - 2006.01.08 05:04:00 - [129] Originally by: Dendrin Koljn Originally by: Ifni And yet, people are still using wasps in combat. OK now im confused - i thought the whole point was that the wasps nvr missed - well it looks like they hardly ever hit - so whats the prob ??? I'm just that good
Kaalise	Posted - 2006.01.08 09:37:00 - [130] Hypothetical situation, if you were to be destroyed because of this error would you want a ship re-imbursment? Given the number of "CCP screwed up, we shouldn't have to pay" posts I'm guesing yes. Now, if you petitioned what response would you want? 1. We're aware of this issue and as such can re-imburse you. 2. There is no issue, drones are perfectly normal, get better at PvP. I'm going to go out on a limb and say 1. Unfortunately without this post Wasps are in their de-facto status as a legitimate weapon and the only response the GMs can give is 2. All this post is doing is establishing officially that there is an issue with wasp drones and as such giving the GMs room to maneuver.
Duana	Posted - 2006.01.08 13:24:00 - [131] Originally by: theRaptor Because you muppet that would take a client side patch. In the next frigging client side patch they are fixing the bug. And if you didn't want to break the illusion of a virtual world you wouldn't be posting on OOC forums. O Rly? -------------------- Juffo-Wup fills my fibers and I grow turgid. Violent action ensues.
Apocalypse Solar	Posted - 2006.01.08 14:53:00 - [132] Edited by: Apocalypse Solar on 08/01/2006 14:54:49 People dont seem to care if its an exploit or not they are still using them. I just warped out of 0.4 where a guy was using them from a Battleship to NPC Hunt So whats the stance on use. What happens if you are caught using them? Problem seems to be at the moment all they get is a wrap on the knuckles from CCP and thats that.
Garia666	Posted - 2006.01.08 21:07:00 - [133] my 2 cents.. This is an pathetic post.. You cant just say only on the forum they cant use wasp drones.. what the hell are you guys thinking.. ---------------------------------------------- CCP [ Cash Collecting Program ] Slogan : The more Skilzz the more Moneh .. ----------------------------------------------
Zikke	Posted - 2006.01.08 21:44:00 - [134] Seriously, this is a problem that should be fixed right away. You can't just sit around and ban people that use wasps, that's ridiculous. You might want to make this "ban" knowledge a little more apparent. Not everyone visits the forums, you know.
MysticNZ	Posted - 2006.01.08 21:54:00 - [135] They are still being used in fleet battles in 00... pretty much everywhere I go everyone is using them. -
Intak Atak	Posted - 2006.01.08 21:57:00 - [136] There is an error in the code. CCP ask you to stop using them. Dont use them or be banned. Seams fair enough, I hope thousands of people get banned. There are allready to many people in this game.
WolfGang H	Posted - 2006.01.09 04:11:00 - [137] Originally by: Intak Atak There is an error in the code. CCP ask you to stop using them. Dont use them or be banned. Seams fair enough, I hope thousands of people get banned. There are allready to many people in this game. You sound French. --- Have what it takes to join the Guardians of Basgerin?
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2006.01.09 06:17:00 - [138] Originally by: WolfGang H Originally by: Intak Atak There is an error in the code. CCP ask you to stop using them. Dont use them or be banned. Seams fair enough, I hope thousands of people get banned. There are allready to many people in this game. You sound French. Umm whats french got to do with it?? He right. U guys whine and cry. Simple dont use it. Person uses against u complain!! If all u people can do a better job than CCP then make ur own god dam game. I personaly hoping loads people get banned there too many one already!! Dark Skyes Website Under Construct
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.01.09 06:25:00 - [139] average age in this thread: 14
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2006.01.09 07:04:00 - [140] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists average age in this thread: 14 Dark Skyes Website Under Construct
banannagirl	Posted - 2006.01.09 11:23:00 - [141] hey man cool .. lets put the price of wasps up ... simple .. ! regards http://www.artzgalaxies.com/
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.01.09 12:03:00 - [142] Originally by: Intak Atak There is an error in the code. CCP ask you to stop using them. Dont use them or be banned. Seams fair enough, I hope thousands of people get banned. There are allready to many people in this game. Thats easy enough to say when you are not stuck in deep 0.0 NPC'ing rats with a weakness to kinetic damage, and your Domi is full of Wasps.
Intak Atak	Posted - 2006.01.09 13:19:00 - [143] Originally by: Butter Dog Thats easy enough to say when you are not stuck in deep 0.0 NPC'ing rats with a weakness to kinetic damage, and your Domi is full of Wasps. And whats stopping you from going to the nearest station with other drones? Whats stoping you from using another ship? Nothing, just your own stupidity.
Katamarino	Posted - 2006.01.09 14:00:00 - [144] Originally by: Intak Atak Originally by: Butter Dog Thats easy enough to say when you are not stuck in deep 0.0 NPC'ing rats with a weakness to kinetic damage, and your Domi is full of Wasps. And whats stopping you from going to the nearest station with other drones? Whats stoping you from using another ship? Nothing, just your own stupidity. This ^^^ person has NEVER been to 0.0
Intak Atak	Posted - 2006.01.09 15:46:00 - [145] Originally by: Katamarino Originally by: Intak Atak Originally by: Butter Dog Thats easy enough to say when you are not stuck in deep 0.0 NPC'ing rats with a weakness to kinetic damage, and your Domi is full of Wasps. And whats stopping you from going to the nearest station with other drones? Whats stoping you from using another ship? Nothing, just your own stupidity. This ^^^ person has NEVER been to 0.0 I live in Curse. Thanks.

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