I have a better proposal: Don't be greedy, and put in a little bit of effort before blindly buying up expensive things hoping to make a huge quick profit

The other suggestions in this topic are rather awful from a design point of view.

Remember folks, CCP can't patch stupid

As I see It this can be solved by making any escrow to be dependently shared among buy orders.

Escrow rules:

A buy order can never be set unless the resulting total amount in escrow covers its value fully.

When total escrow is going below the value of a buy order your account(wallet) is charged to cover it.

Failing to cover the attempted charge any buy order which is not covered by total escrow will be immediately removed the very moment this is true.

One important result from this is, the highest buy order will always be the limiting factor, thus you will only engage in business on a level you can actually afford to do business in.


Minimum buy rules:

Minimum buy amount can never be higher than 10% of the amount sold currently within a station.

Minimum buy amount will always be adjusted(per sale) by automation, between 1 and the preferred amount only(does not change anything in the buy order, just allows a bypass when sales are low).

In multi station wide buy orders the minimum buy amount is always based on the individual stations.

The highest traffic hubs will allow the highest minimum amounts whilst abandoned stations will rarely allow minimum buy amounts above 1, this will also boost localized trading more as moguls will have a hard time servicing super-wide buy orders.

I'm not aware if these ideas have been posted or not, so with that said here goes:

As many players are aware, there is a serious problem in the game with margin trading scamming going on.

Simple, fail a margin order and you lose the ISK.
Consider it the same as losing pvp and your ship going boom.

You already do, so what's the problem?


Don't buy things for more than they're worth.

No Im saying the dude who put up the buy order, not just the one being scammed.
Scammer gets baited and killed, normal trader with no liquidity can consider it the same as roaming a wh.
This way the skill is useful, but like with everything there is risk.

Also because I want to here the scammers whine about how they lose billions on people falling for their scam and how they should get total profit from it.

As many players are aware, there is a serious problem in the game with margin trading scamming going on.

No Im saying the dude who put up the buy order, not just the one being scammed.
Scammer gets baited and killed, normal trader with no liquidity can consider it the same as roaming a wh.
This way the skill is useful, but like with everything there is risk.

Also because I want to here the scammers whine about how they lose billions on people falling for their scam and how they should get total profit from it.

All risks connected to the margin trading skill are just general risks of doing business in EVE. They fit perfectly well with the overall design of the game when it comes to trading.

If you have been scammed and want to have revenge, get the required intel and strike back with any means you deem appropriate.

If you can't be bothered, just deal with it.

As long as the deposits don't cover the total amount this will continue to be a scam.
And full deposits would cripple market marvelously for people that don't sit on trillions.

While it is something of a bother, this so called 'scam' or 'exploit' only works because of greedy people who did not do their research.

Sable Moran wrote:
Putting it in another way. You want CCP to add a not insignificant amount of game breaking new code into the game to prevent greedy people from having their arses handed to them?

TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I have a better proposal: Don't be greedy, and put in a little bit of effort before blindly buying up expensive things hoping to make a huge quick profit

Mag's wrote:
The only problem that needs fixing, is the poor judgement that some people make when investing their ISK. Margin trading is not broken, or in any way needing of a fix.

Domanique Altares wrote:
There is no problem with Margin Trading. There's a problem with greed, ignorance, and illiteracy; these three things are the primary cause of anyone allowing themselves to be scammed in any fashion at all.

TheGunslinger42 wrote: Why should he lose isk for an order that doesn't complete? Give me a single reason that isn't "because I'm butthurt and want other people to be punished for my greed and stupidity"

anyone perpetrating the margin trade scams would very quickly find themselves on the losing-end of heavy fines, lawsuits, and/or extensive jail sentences.

it's flat-out broken.

I sincerely hope that you end up the victim of a severe financial loss in the real world, so that you can feel the full weight of the ignorance of your statement.

No, you are wrong; the only reason the scam works is because there are no meaningful protection systems built into the market to deal with such blatant fraud.

and then the system could be left for it's very real and intended purpose

As I said above, all of these statements are nonsense; blaming the victims of scams as greedy is nonsense

since it is the greed of the scammer in the first place that creates these problems.

It is highly likely that you are all just a margin trade scammers trying to prevent a broken system from being fixed.

First, though, you simply shouldn't trust any order that has a minimum buy amount greater than 1.

As I said above, all of these statements are nonsense; blaming the victims of scams as greedy is nonsense since it is the greed of the scammer in the first place that creates these problems. It is highly likely that you are all just a margin trade scammers trying to prevent a broken system from being fixed.

In the real world, such an action has a single term: Fraud.

I wasn't aware, please do explain the problem!
AFAIK when a margin trader "defaults" on his buyorder, your sell is rejected, meaning you retain your goods.

Am I mistaken? Are you able to order on margin, "default" and get the sellers' goods?
Is there something I missed here?

In IRL, there are severe penalties if you can't cover your margins...

As I said above, all of these statements are nonsense; blaming the victims of scams as greedy is nonsense since it is the greed of the scammer in the first place that creates these problems. It is highly likely that you are all just a margin trade scammers trying to prevent a broken system from being fixed.

Since practically none of you are posting anything constructive on the matter and are merely regurgitating the same "I want to be able to cheat anyone I please; it's not my fault, it's their fault" scumbag rhetoric as always, I'm not going to be bothering to respond to such vapid posts beyond this point. There is no logical or reasonable argument being presented from any of you for why the margin trading system should not be fixed; your only obvious interest is in keeping the system as it is so that you can continue to exploit other players for your own sick amusement. That EVE Online is a game is no excuse for you to treat the real Human beings on the other end of each character as inanimate objects for you to use and abuse at your leisure; such an attitude is deplorable, and speaks to your lack of integrity in the real world.

I sincerely hope CCP does do something to fix the margin trading system, if for nothing else to protect the undeserving victims of such scams from the greed and bile of sociopaths like you.

Since practically none of you are posting anything constructive on the matter and are merely regurgitating the same "I want to be able to cheat anyone I please; it's not my fault, it's their fault" scumbag rhetoric as always, I'm not going to be bothering to respond to such vapid posts beyond this point. There is no logical or reasonable argument being presented from any of you for why the margin trading system should not be fixed; your only obvious interest is in keeping the system as it is so that you can continue to exploit other players for your own sick amusement. That EVE Online is a game is no excuse for you to treat the real Human beings on the other end of each character as inanimate objects for you to use and abuse at your leisure; such an attitude is deplorable, and speaks to your lack of integrity in the real world.

I sincerely hope CCP does do something to fix the margin trading system, if for nothing else to protect the undeserving victims of such scams from the greed and bile of sociopaths like you.

such an attitude is deplorable, and speaks to your lack of integrity in the real world.

Since practically none of you are posting anything constructive on the matter and are merely regurgitating the same "I want to be able to cheat anyone I please; it's not my fault, it's their fault" scumbag rhetoric as always, I'm not going to be bothering to respond to such vapid posts beyond this point.

There is no logical or reasonable argument being presented from any of you for why the margin trading system should not be fixed; your only obvious interest is in keeping the system as it is so that you can continue to exploit other players for your own sick amusement.

That EVE Online is a game is no excuse for you to treat the real Human beings on the other end of each character as inanimate objects for you to use and abuse at your leisure; such an attitude is deplorable, and speaks to your lack of integrity in the real world.

I sincerely hope CCP does do something to fix the margin trading system, if for nothing else to protect the undeserving victims of such scams from the greed and bile of sociopaths like you.

So tell me why this margin trading skill should be introduced?
What precisely does it cover and allow to benefit the game?

Hmm didn't read through all that crap, but here's how it could work: The seller receives a message: "The item you're trying to sell is being bought on margin and there's not enough money at the moment to cover it, would you like to sell it anyway and wait until the buyer deposits the sum?" If yes the item is being held in the market.
At the same time the buyer's account goes into the negative. He can't put new buy orders until he pays off the item.

Voila

Since practically none of you are posting anything constructive on the matter and are merely regurgitating the same "I want to be able to cheat anyone I please; it's not my fault, it's their fault" scumbag rhetoric as always, I'm not going to be bothering to respond to such vapid posts beyond this point. There is no logical or reasonable argument being presented from any of you for why the margin trading system should not be fixed; your only obvious interest is in keeping the system as it is so that you can continue to exploit other players for your own sick amusement. That EVE Online is a game is no excuse for you to treat the real Human beings on the other end of each character as inanimate objects for you to use and abuse at your leisure; such an attitude is deplorable, and speaks to your lack of integrity in the real world.

I sincerely hope CCP does do something to fix the margin trading system, if for nothing else to protect the undeserving victims of such scams from the greed and bile of sociopaths like you.

Margin Trading scams exist because people trust the market too much. In 99.9% of orders they complete, so new players quickly learn to trust the market. And then out of a sudden it fails them, leaving them with an item they never wanted in the first place.

IMO what should be changed is Aura should say something about "dont trust buy orders" in the tutorial:

"Market buy orders can sometimes fail, for example when the buyer does not have enough money to cover the order. Some people can deliberately use this against you."

And that's it I think. If someone didn't run the tutorial, then they can be blamed for their ignorance.

Since practically none of you are posting anything constructive on the matter and are merely regurgitating the same "I want to be able to cheat anyone I please; it's not my fault, it's their fault" scumbag rhetoric as always, I'm not going to be bothering to respond to such vapid posts beyond this point. There is no logical or reasonable argument being presented from any of you for why the margin trading system should not be fixed; your only obvious interest is in keeping the system as it is so that you can continue to exploit other players for your own sick amusement. That EVE Online is a game is no excuse for you to treat the real Human beings on the other end of each character as inanimate objects for you to use and abuse at your leisure; such an attitude is deplorable, and speaks to your lack of integrity in the real world.

I sincerely hope CCP does do something to fix the margin trading system, if for nothing else to protect the undeserving victims of such scams from the greed and bile of sociopaths like you.

You want less Scam? Improve the UI so can Identity scams faster (if your able to read of course).

you mean like adding a tab that shows you the sales history of that item sorted by date, has low and high price and even a large colorful graph.. oh wait...

what it needs is warning to new players about the scam. i am sure everyone will get scamed once before we knew about what this scam really do. The unlucky ones will put all their isk into buying something that seem for sure would make a profit then realize their whole bank account is gone. These kind of scam is impossible for the people to detec unless you were told before.

it is almost like a contract to sell a mach for 2million isk then you accept the contract and boom your just lost a mach in your hanger because the guy had a skill call bait and swtich trained to lvl 5 which will change the contract from selling to buying.

These kind of scams where are skills related should be warned to players by CCP because even a very careful person will get scammed. there is no way to know unless you know about the skill.

I dont have problems with scaming it was just a small idea to speed up the process and give the player more information that matters.

The UI gives you the following information for every single item on the market:
The highest and lowest transaction prices for each and every day of the last year (table or graph)
The median transaction price for each and every day of the last year (table or graph)
The volume of transactions for each and every day of the last year (table or graph)
A trailing 5d average transaction price for the last year (graph only)
A trailing 20d average transaction price for the last year (graph only)
A list of all open bids and asks with their remaining duration (and their last update time, by proxy) (table only)

What more information could you possibly want?

Still dont get it? Its about >REDESIGN< the UI...

I'm fully in support of anything to fix the margin trade scam.
I don't want to see all scamming removed from EVE as it is a part of it, however the margin trade scam has nothing to alert a playing to it being a scam unless they know about that exact scam.

ISK doubling, contract and item switch scams all have clear information or are based on trust in the party you're dealing with meaning the fault of falling for these scams is in the hands of the player who doesn't check them correctly.

Margin trade scams however have no indication at all and I have known many veteran players who have fallen for it because they had no idea it was possible. When you see something for sale for lower than someone is buying it you assume the market isn't open to abuse for scamming.

OP's ideas are a good trail of thought and better than most peoples requests to simply remove the skill from the game.

I'm fully in support of anything to fix the margin trade scam.
I don't want to see all scamming removed from EVE as it is a part of it, however the margin trade scam has nothing to alert a playing to it being a scam unless they know about that exact scam.

ISK doubling, contract and item switch scams all have clear information or are based on trust in the party you're dealing with meaning the fault of falling for these scams is in the hands of the player who doesn't check them correctly.

Margin trade scams however have no indication at all and I have known many veteran players who have fallen for it because they had no idea it was possible. When you see something for sale for lower than someone is buying it you assume the market isn't open to abuse for scamming.

OP's ideas are a good trail of thought and better than most peoples requests to simply remove the skill from the game.

you mean like adding a tab that shows you the sales history of that item sorted by date, has low and high price and even a large colorful graph.. oh wait...

I'm fully in support of anything to fix the margin trade scam.
I don't want to see all scamming removed from EVE as it is a part of it, however the margin trade scam has nothing to alert a playing to it being a scam unless they know about that exact scam.

ISK doubling, contract and item switch scams all have clear information or are based on trust in the party you're dealing with meaning the fault of falling for these scams is in the hands of the player who doesn't check them correctly.

Margin trade scams however have no indication at all and I have known many veteran players who have fallen for it because they had no idea it was possible. When you see something for sale for lower than someone is buying it you assume the market isn't open to abuse for scamming.

OP's ideas are a good trail of thought and better than most peoples requests to simply remove the skill from the game.

I'll be honest. My personal view is, that the skill is working fine as it is. Though increased broker fees in general would probably be a good thing.

All risks connected to the margin trading skill are just general risks of doing business in EVE. They fit perfectly well with the overall design of the game when it comes to trading.

If you have been scammed and want to have revenge, get the required intel and strike back with any means you deem appropriate.

If you can't be bothered, just deal with it.

The Margin trading skill is broken and not being used as intended.

The only change that needs to happen to margin trading is if the buyer doesn't have the money, the seller shouldn't lose the goods. If that is how it already works, then ignore me.

However greed will get you every time........

While I don't agree that margin trading needs a "fix", it really is just people falling to greed, I do wonder why margin trading is still as it is. Mainly because EVE tends to drive player involvement, while margin trading contrast starkly against it. Margin trading is essentially a safe way of borrowing isk to pre-order goods. Why is margin trading an automatic function, rather than a player driven mechanic? A player driven mechanic would require players to earn trust in order to do things, the way it should be. With the current system, any character training the skills is automatically granted that trust. It feels to me no different from the idea of an eve NPC bank, which people are usually against as it removes player driven content.

Margin trading scam is simply an exploit; for all purposes the game mechanics should not allow a trade to fizzle if you see the isk on buy order you should expect to get it. The integrity of the market requires it.

The issue naturally is with differentiating phases of the scam as the heist happens in a different trade to the margin fizzle. There is nothing wrong with putting out overpriced stuff. There is definitely everything wrong in putting out overpriced buy orders with the knowledge it won't come to fruition.

CCP has to rule knowledgeably setting up fizzling orders an exploit first and foremost. Then handle it case by case with banhammer ultimatums. This moves the risk to margin trader, not the one who thinks he can sell stuff to buy orders at the specified price (as he should be able to).

Manually doing the bait and recall is not an exploit but for all purposes can go under the banhammer with no detrimental impact to the game.

EDIT: the burden of knowing the rules has to be foremost on the scammer by common sense. (playstyles)

So, what you're saying is that if my order for 300 million isk worth of Trit I set up last month falls through because someone entirely filled a billion ISK worth of other mins unexpectedly ... I get classed as "exploiting" the system and a banhammer?

You return to Dodixie, manually set the sell price to 24m each (minimum required in escrow w/ margin trading 5, at buy price of 100m). You press sell, the escrow alone covers the 24m*5=120m.

If you try this currently, the order fails anyway: It *seems* to check whether the scammer has the full offered amount rather than the amount asked.

Since practically none of you are posting anything constructive on the matter and are merely regurgitating the same "I want to be able to cheat anyone I please; it's not my fault, it's their fault" scumbag rhetoric as always, I'm not going to be bothering to respond to such vapid posts beyond this point. There is no logical or reasonable argument being presented from any of you for why the margin trading system should not be fixed; your only obvious interest is in keeping the system as it is so that you can continue to exploit other players for your own sick amusement. That EVE Online is a game is no excuse for you to treat the real Human beings on the other end of each character as inanimate objects for you to use and abuse at your leisure; such an attitude is deplorable, and speaks to your lack of integrity in the real world.

I sincerely hope CCP does do something to fix the margin trading system, if for nothing else to protect the undeserving victims of such scams from the greed and bile of sociopaths like you.

It does work like that. But you're not the first to think of that trick.

Buy order for 10, minimum 5, 100m/unit. Total order is 1b, escrow is 240m.
Sell 5 to the order at 48m/unit. Total order is now 500m, escrow is now 0 ISK.

Now start spamming your 80m/unit sales contract.

I was not aware of this, however I don't see how that's really a problem:
Selling at 48m per unit should only use up the escrow for the units sold: selling at double the escrow value should draw half the funds from escrow and half from wallet. Escrow goes away first but on a per unit basis.

Worded another way, if I have a 5 unit buy order left, my minimum escrow is still 24% of the price of those 5 units. The remainder is due on sale or the order fails.

So if i understand this scam it is like the contract and buy order scam where a minimum amount of x item (not sold on the market) is needed and the contract offers x items - 1. The person attempts to sell the items he/she bought on the contract and fails for minimum items requires. In this case its not the minimum items, its the amount of isk the buyer has.

Dude, if an offer looks too good to be true, it is. Why would someone make a contract for an item and then compare it to the market when they would get more isk by selling on the market buy orders?

No, it is placing a buy order that looks inviting by controlling the sell orders available, then lowering your wallet balance so when someone attempts to sell you the item, you cannot cover the purchase. With Margin Trading the "buyer" only needs to put a percentage of the buy order in escrow. The only problem I have is that it is then possible for the market to show buy orders that will fail, this makes no sense.

The ability to put up more buy orders than you can cover with your liquid balance is the entire point of the skill. And since a buy order failing cannot possibly hurt anyone (as they are left in the exact same position they were in before it failed), there's no reason to change this.

Having waited a while for constructive replies to occur, and seeing none, I'll begrudgingly respond to the blatently deceptive responses of margin trade scammers trying to keep a broken system broken:



No, you are wrong; completely wrong. EVE is designed as more than a mere run of the mill MMO; it's a simulated universe. Your ignorant response is purposefully ignoring that fact to gloss over the inherent problem of in-game margin trade market fraud not being dealt with as it otherwise would be in a functioning world. It is the very reason I brought up the fraud angle in the first place. Looking at the game in terms of the characters as people acting within a real-world economy, anyone perpetrating the margin trade scams would very quickly find themselves on the losing-end of heavy fines, lawsuits, and/or extensive jail sentences.

Under the currently broken system, the only people who lose due to margin trade scams are the victims of said scams; there are no real or meaningful consequences for the perpetrators of those scams, and that is the point of my suggestions. Without the protection systems that should be in place, margin trade scammers are left scott-free to bloat the market with fraudulent orders that have an exactly 0% chance of being fulfilled due to the abuse of the system's current mechanics. That is not a correctly functioning or sensible system; it's flat-out broken.

The margin trading skill is fine.
In-game fraud is fine.
Capitalizing on the greed of other players is fine.

What is not fine is flawed market information. Market information should be 100% reliable at the time it is displayed. If an order cannot possible execute, it should not be visible in the market screens.

The skill does not allow you to put up a buy order you cannot currently cover, am I mistaken?

If that is true then my suggested fixes would not affect those legitimately using the skill to put up multiple buy orders, but either it needs to be displayed which buy orders are not a guarantee, or they should simply be delisted when the buyer's funds are reduced.

The idea that the in-game market is displaying orders which cannot be fulfilled reflects poorly only on the game itself.

You are mistaken: The margin trade skill allows you to put up an order you do not have the funds to fully cover. At MT5, you need 24% of the necessary isk to create an order.

FYI: There is no such thing as a GUARANTEED buy order. They don't exist in this game. Only sell orders are guaranteed, so run your business using that knowledge and you'll be fine!

You are mistaken: The margin trade skill allows you to put up an order you do not have the funds to fully cover. At MT5, you need 24% of the necessary isk to create an order.

FYI: There is no such thing as a GUARANTEED buy order. They don't exist in this game. Only sell orders are guaranteed, so run your business using that knowledge and you'll be fine!

There are no guaranteed sell orders either. They can be taken down or completed by someone else at any time.

I've gotten the "there's no such order" error when buying stuff plenty of times.

What you don't understand is that scamming is a GOOD THING for eve. I'm still sad they got rid of free from contracts. Any means of taking is from the stupid and delivering it to the clever is good.

Plus, this only works in suspicious scenarios: What, this guy has a buy order for vaga for 1,000,000,000 and there is a vaga for sale in station for only 300m? LOL I'll get this free isk! ... cmon now kids, lets just use our brains instead.

If they are taken down or completed then they go away. They don't stay up for the next several days, indicating a promise that cannot be fulfilled. Since this can apparently be done without having the money to begin with, I retract my suggestions, but this is a disconcerting system to say the least.

It would be nice if this was indicated anywhere in the market or tutorials, then. With this in mind I will be sure never to try to make ISK off the market directly.

I was talking about the times they disappear between the time you click on them and the time you finish the sales window and click ok.

You just have to remember that no harm can possibly come from being left in the exact same position you were in before you tried selling to the buy order, and the buyer has lost their broker fee without a successful transaction to show for it. So why would the system be designed to needlessly charge buyers broker fees?

If there's an order that they can't afford right now, but nobody's trying to sell to them, what's the problem? When someone does try to sell to the order, the broker checks the escrow account and wallet, and if there are not sufficient funds, the exchange doesn't take place and the prospective seller is left entirely unharmed.


It's like going to a store, putting your items in the cart, and finding that you don't have the money to pay when you get to the register. Nobody gets in trouble because no contractual relationship has been in trouble and no transaction has taken place. You simply leave with what you had when you walked in, and the store retains the goods you were interested in.

That is a flawed analogy. This is not a store transaction, it is an order which in some cases could never have been funded.

A sell order cannot be put up and maintained without having the physical goods that are being sold. Nor can a contract of any sort function in this manner. I do not understand why anyone would expect a market system to list false buy orders.

So is putting the goods in your cart when you don't have the money in your bank account (assuming you plan to pay with a debit card). You say "I want to buy this" the broker (cashier) calls your bank (or the computer does it) and the bank says "there isn't enough money in the account, don't complete the transaction." Where is the flaw in the analogy?

Why should the broker check the escrow account unless someone's asking him to?

They aren't false buy orders. The skill allows you to tell the broker "I'll have the rest of the money available by the time someone asks to fill the order." Since you're the only one who can possibly be harmed by your own failure to do so, what's the problem?

In that the store didn't put up a notice saying you had the money to purchase those items when you entered the store. It's not at all comparable.

It's not about who it harms. It's about buy orders being on the market that cannot be fulfilled, the system knows this because it knows your wallet balance. This is completely antithetical to any market system I know of.

Find where in the market screen it guarantees that all buy orders are always fully supported. Just because you make an assumption doesn't make it a fact.

I just mentioned one. Ordering something from a store that doesn't require a deposit. Some of those orders may never be picked up because the person who ordered the item realized they didn't have the money. No goods change hands, no money changes hands, no problem.

Also, the market server doesn't do a database call of every wallet in the game every server tick. That would be insane. So it doesn't actually know every wallet balance in the sense you think it does. It checks the balance of a wallet when it makes sense to check it, that is to say when it needs to know the balance either because someone's checking the balance or trying to make a transaction. It's like an ATM; the machine doesn't know everyone's balance, but it can (and will) check if asked.

If you agree that the system as it is now cannot hurt anyone, why should it be changed?

Where in the market screen does it say buy orders can be false? I've been playing for 6 months and never even knew this was a possibility until a week ago through a third party website. Who would assume that an in-game market shows you orders that will fail? That's ludicrous.

I didn't mean to say it should; I was referring to the game knowing you don't have the funds when you place the order initially. Checking balance periodically to remove unfunded orders is one of the possible solutions I presented earlier before knowing orders could be placed without having the funds to begin with.

It can, but only those who don't do their research. I agree that scam is a non-issue. It should be changed because it's misleading to list orders that will not go through, especially if they would not have even gone through when they were placed.

Do people really come into this game and not assume that orders displayed by the game's own market system for months would have had a possibility of being fulfilled at some point in their lifetime? I find that hard to believe.

Should I need to conduct a thorough investigation of skills to make sure other critical game systems such as contracts or manufacturing job requirements aren't lying to me?

So you're saying that you did make an assumption, it turned out to be wrong, and now you're angry.
Every game is different, and it behooves you to investigate investments before making them.
When I first saw one of these, I asked someone what the hell was up, and had it explained to me. It's pretty damn obvious that there's something fishy about a buy order for hundreds of millions of ISK more than the lowest sell order.
It doesn't take all that much clear thinking to just not buy the fiddle.

If you don't have Production Efficiency 5, the Material requirements a blueprint will show you will be wrong if the blueprint has extra materials that also appear in the normal materials.

Actually I have never seen this scam or had a buy order fail, I've repeatedly mentioned I have no problem with the scam's existence. That is irrelevant to my point, which is solely that the market should not display incorrect information.

I am aware. Unlike the market issue, that is a bug.

What's incorrect about it? Someone has placed an order for those items and has promised to have the ISK by the time someone tries to sell to them. They've paid their fee to the broker, so why shouldn't the order remain until it completes, expires, or fails?

What you don't understand is that scamming is a GOOD THING for eve. I'm still sad they got rid of free from contracts. Any means of taking is from the stupid and delivering it to the clever is good.

Plus, this only works in suspicious scenarios: What, this guy has a buy order for vaga for 1,000,000,000 and there is a vaga for sale in station for only 300m? LOL I'll get this free isk! ... cmon now kids, lets just use our brains instead.

The only change I'd make to margin trade is adding a column to state the amount in escrow for the order (probably as a %). It's not unrealistic to have that information, and it would not stop stupid people falling for trade scams.

See the problem with margin trading is that coming from other games, you won't know about it until after you've been scammed (or if you've read up on it specifically). It's not a common thing in games and it's never explained, so you are assumed to know that an order can fail. By adding a column to show the amount in escrow people would see it and say "I wonder what that means" then go find out. That doesn't mean an order with less than the full amount in escrow is a scam, it would just give you the information you need to make informed decisions.

tl;dr
MT scams prey on lack of knowledge about game mechanics. Providing information that points to those mechanics allows a player to educate himself before falling prey to one, if he so wishes.

I'm not aware if these ideas have been posted or not, so with that said here goes:

As many players are aware,t.

When a trade fails because you have no funds, the margin is transfered to the person trying to sell to you instead of returned to your wallet.

The order should cease to exist BEFORE it gets the point of failure, if the wallet cant cover the order it has no validity.

Orders should not fail, this is the issue.

Why not? Why should the order complete if the buyer doesn't have the money to pay for the goods?

They want the margin trading scam to actually work.

They want the margin trading scam to actually work.