Only to people who do not value their time.

I bet you think the minerals you mine for yourself are free.

If your ships is more versatile is MUST BE WEAKER On its specialzied role. That has been CCP stance for like 5 years already.

And they aren't "outright better" as T2 ships can do things that T3 can't just like T1 vs T2.

If you just look a stats and pretend that the two classes of ship are going to be brawling at point blank range, then of course T3 will look better but this is not what happens in game.

If someone can point me to a corp or alliance that only uses T3 and are unbeatable, I'll admitt that T3 needs a nerf but until then I'll consider myself right in this argument.

Something needs to be unbeatable to be overpowered?

Your the idiot who can't put forward a good argument as to why Tech 3 ships should be nerfed below the abilities of T2, so instead you take to rambling on about battleships

IDK why you are blabbering on about E-war and logi bonuses either... who suggested HAC have them in the first place?

At the end of the day, you clearly have no clue how this game and the ships within it work. I've given you enough chances to explain why you think a HAC should have more dps/tank that a t3 and your answer has repeatedly been "because it's called a HAC". So i'm done with you.

No, it can be overpowered without being unbeatable.

... rebalance WH income ...

Tengus lend themselves well to scouting, brawling, sniping and PVE whereas the others don't. The tengu is the only T3 you'd rationally use solo. The others are just too specialised to do that.

The rebalance should probably start here (prepare for uproar from Caldari pilots who already feel wronged by recent changes to drakes and missiles).

They also need their brick tanks taken away.

In my view, the only bricks on the battlefield should be battleships, and at a push battlecruisers. Cruisers should be mobile, hard-hitting etc, but not a stone wall of ehp.

You mean the one that everyone stopped using?

I understand where you are coming from and why you might hold such views but it sounds like your experiences are not the norm.

Armour Tech 3 ships are by far the most used ships in wormhole when it comes to PVP. We even fly armour tanked Tengus. The only reason Tengus are in such high demand is due to their effectiveness in K-space.

My standard fleet proteus has a 100K EHP tank and around 1000 dps. Now maybe the tank could do with a slight nerf but if it was nerfed below 80k EHP, everyone would simply fly a command or faction BC that can achieve the 100K tank and we would be right back to square one. The only real change would be that the wormhole space economy would take a massive hit and dread blapping would become a major problem.

1000 dps seems high for a cruiser but when you are talking about blasters, you have to consider that you need to be at point blank range to your target, who also needs to be sitting still, for you to do anywhere near that damage. Given the fact that the vigilant, Deimos and Brutix can also achieve that level of damage, there is not much cause to nerf the dps much either.

On the subject of isk and balance, we can agree to disagree on this but just because isk is an infinite commodity does not make it an irrelevance talking about balance. It takes time and effort to earn isk and as no one has infinite time, no one has infinite isk.

I still see fare more Tengu's than any other T3 where I live (Stain)

People talk about versatility, but they're not really that versatile unless you're ok with carrying a seletion of spare riges everywhere, and are ok with your rigs getting detroyed every time you want to refit for another role. If you have T2 rigs, then it really starts to hurt.

Oh, and I would like a missile sub for the Loki please. All the other T3s have the option of 2 weapon systems.

The reasons should be fairly obvious - the Tengu has been very successful because there are a number of roles it performs very well. Just a lucky coincidence of tank systems, versatile weapons system, fortunate bonuses (coinciding max dps with max capacitor size and therefore peak recharge rate being one).

Tengus lend themselves well to scouting, brawling, sniping and PVE whereas the others don't. The tengu is the only T3 you'd rationally use solo. The others are just too specialised to do that.

The rebalance should probably start here (prepare for uproar from Caldari pilots who already feel wronged by recent changes to drakes and missiles).

i'd say that missiles is main answer why tengu is popular. good dps combined with always hit mechanics.

That coupled with the ability to fit a 100mn afterburner to make it difficult to catch plus a permatank strong enough to tank any pve site in eve all serve to make it the obvious choice for solo PVE in hostile environments.

That coupled with the ability to fit a 100mn afterburner to make it difficult to catch plus a permatank strong enough to tank any pve site in eve all serve to make it the obvious choice for solo PVE in hostile environments.

Caldari datacores still fetch a good price at market. That tells me that people are buying tengus like they always did. (see previous post).

And for the record, the proteus doesn't have an option of 2 weapons systems either - you'd be nuts to fit the drone subsystem to it.

Caldari datacores still fetch a good price at market. That tells me that people are buying tengus like they always did. (see previous post).

And for the record, the proteus doesn't have an option of 2 weapons systems either - you'd be nuts to fit the drone subsystem to it.

So the Tengu (and Caldari) are basically worthless for anything beyond PvE. But we're going to nerf them. Again.

So the Tengu (and Caldari) are basically worthless for anything beyond PvE. But we're going to nerf them. Again.

I still see many more Tengu's than any other T3 where I live (Stain)

People talk about versatility, but they're not really that versatile. Not unless you're ok with carrying a selection of spare rigs everywhere, and are ok with having your rigs destroyed every time you want to refit. If you have T2 rigs, then it really starts to hurt.

So the Tengu (and Caldari) are basically worthless for anything beyond PvE. But we're going to nerf them. Again.

I disagree with this statement. The Tengu is far from worthless at PVP. It is in a good spot - largely thanks to the HML nerf. Are HML's perfect for all purposes? No. But CCP has managed to buff other medium weapons to a point where the imbalance between HML's and everything else is not so absurd.

Now they need to tone down the buffer on the Proteus, Loki, and Legion so that they can be buffed in other areas.

It's borderline useless, and the current HMLs are absurd. You have a choice for your 1:1 engagement: Do you choose the Tengu, Loki, Proteus or Legion. The obvious choices (or lack thereof) speak for themselves.

Just try to ignore a few alliances that are using them as line ships........I've seen 400 tengus on grid, recently. They were rail tengus, but they were still tengus.

It's borderline useless, and the current HMLs are absurd. You have a choice for your 1:1 engagement: Do you choose the Tengu, Loki, Proteus or Legion. The obvious choices (or lack thereof) speak for themselves.