aside from having no role, and offering too much in terms of tank and firepower when coupled with the security mechanisms of highsec.

Which mechanisms?

Surely you're not arguing that they shouldn't be in high sec because it would be too hard/costly to gank them?

Of course I am, because that's one of the reasons they're not allowed there any more.

That's a pretty silly reason.

No. What was suggested by the poster was the exact opposite: that what makes a cruiser a cruiser rather than a frigate is its ability to fit cruiser-sized weapons or, more accurately, that what makes a capship a capship rather than some kind of subcap is its ability to fit capship modules, its required use of capital rigs, and that the capship skill is somewhere in its prereq tree.

GǪand that was not the suggestion. Rather, the ability to fit capital modules separates capitals from other ship classes. Orcas, not being able to fit capital modules, therefore aren't really capital in that sense.

Does the Orca require the Capital Ships skill to fly? Too lazy to check

Well if anything, it gives Null sec a certain vibe, as for many its the place where these large ships everyone keeps hearing about are found.

Makes it more exciting for the newer players.

Admit you were a bit excited when you saw your first titan.

Does the Orca require the Capital Ships skill to fly? Too lazy to check

Speaking of which...

Is a jump drive considered a capital module? (Not micro jump drive which admittedly is a new addition to Eve)

I did find this little gem though on the eve wiki-

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Orca

When you go down to ship classifications it does list the Orca as a capital.

Blame CCP maybe?

The Orca is an industrial command ship, not a capital industrial ship.

Then CCP should correct their wiki as it is a source of information for capsuleers.

As you can see, it is listed as a capital ship.

You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Personally I wouldn't count an orca as a cap ship. IMO even Blops are more similar to cap ships than Orcas.

Freighters and Jump freighters though.... I personally don't see the argument against counting them as capitals.

They're allowed into highsec, can be built in highsec, and can use stargates. They're not capitals.

Except nothing I said was incorrect and it provides a very clear definition.

If I have to go with a definition of capitals, which one do you think I should use: the one some random guy provides, or the one provided by ccp?

It just happens to be wrong. According to ccp anyway, but what do they know?

CCP doesn't provide a definition GÇö only an arbitrary designation.

Oh, and the wiki is not a reliable source for anything, especially not the CCP-exclusive and locked-down pages.

And that arbitrary designation is what the discussion is about. And that arbitrary designation is provided by CCP, who also happens to provide a definition for said designation.

No, nothing I said was wrong, according to CCP or otherwise.

They're allowed into highsec, can be built in highsec, and can use stargates. They're not capitals.

The "arbitrary designation" capital ships includes orcas, freighters, and jump freighters.

GǪwhich don't actually fit under the (non-official) description of what makes a capital ship a capital ship that some players invented when writing that page:

GÇ£A capital ship is any of a class of ships requiring the Capital Ship Assembly Array to constructGÇ¥ GÇö which Orcas, freighters and JFs don't.

GÇ£Capital ships are also unique within Eve in that they cannot use the jump gate networkGÇ¥ GÇö which Orcas, freighters and JFs can.

GÇ£Only capitals are able to fit capital-class tanking modulesGÇ¥ GÇö which Orcas, freighters, and JFs can't.

But Orcas and jump freighters and freighters are really really big! That means they're capital ships! Big = capital ship!


Anyway, you know what other subclass of ship has a clear and concise definition not given by CCP? Supercapitals. As in, the two ship types incapable of docking in stations or traversing any kind of wormhole, and which must be built in Capital Ship Assembly Arrays (which require sovereignty and an ihub upgrade).

No, nothing I said was wrong, according to CCP or otherwise.