This is to all the players out there who think that just because they are mining or missioning, that they are entitled to some kind of immunity from the griefers who gank them.

play another game.

There you go :D

Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship?

Well let's see: Would the mining ship have been blown up where it not for the criminal actions of the ganker?
Hm: Nope!

Well gee, that sort of suggest that the criminal is responsible, doesn't it? Whether a miner tanks his Hulk or not is irrelevant; a vulnerable target does not abrogate criminal responsibility. Technically the criminals are the ones who are responsible - not their victims - since, logically, the issue of "tanking your Hulk" would not even exist where it not for said criminals.

...stuff said...

Well let's see: Would the mining ship have been blown up where it not for the criminal actions of the ganker?
Hm: Nope!

Well gee, that sort of suggest that the criminal is responsible, doesn't it? Whether a miner tanks his Hulk or not is irrelevant; a vulnerable target does not abrogate criminal responsibility. Technically the criminals are the ones who are responsible - not their victims - since, logically, the issue of "tanking your Hulk" would not even exist where it not for said criminals.

it is not a "chicken and egg" problem. It completely and 100% starts with the criminal, and fault rests upon their shoulders.

I mean, this is basic logic. I'm surprised so many EVE players have such a hard time with it... since EVE players spend a good deal of their time bragging about how smart they are for playing EVE....

Now, this isn't to say that someone shouldn't pay attention to their surroundings and protect themselves. However, at the end of the day, the argument that "it's your fault that someone broke into your house and stole your belongings because, after all, you own a house with valuable items inside" is ridiculous and would never pass in any court system. You don't like a rapist go unpunished simply because his victim "should have been paying better attention." Such ideas are ludicrous.

"Why is that?" you ask? Simple: In the real world, which EVE is nothing like by the way, people can only be held accountable for their own actions.

True, EVE is just a game. However, EVE is no longer filling a "niche" - EVE is now in the mainstream, and like it or not, the type of people who are being drawn to EVE are not the same sort of players who got into the game 3, 4, 8 years ago. CCP is going to either have to adapt to these new players (and secure more capital in the process), or it'll unnecessarily restrict itself to a very small player market, which will eventually exhaust itself.

*shrug*

"Why is that?" you ask? Simple: In the real world, which EVE is nothing like by the way, people can only be held accountable for their own actions.

This man get's it.

There ARE new players coming in all the time. How many LEAVE because they have next to no chance at getting a decent start. The bittervets have AMPLE opportunity to play Eve - elsewhere. They PREFER to sit in highsec killing noobs (or supporting it) and then justify it with "This is Eve" bullshit. Pure and simple.

If we keep catering only for the bandy-kneed old men of Eve it will become "Bittervets Retirement Home version 4".

And I truly wonder what would happen if they did.

Under normal situations, yes. It's the criminal's fault. But having an entire alliance such as Goonswarm running around ganking miners (while paying others to do the same and announcing it ahead of time) is not a normal situation. Neither was Hulkageddon. Yet players decided to not properly tank their ships during these events. My argument still stands.

Edited for grammar.

This man get's it.

There ARE new players coming in all the time. How many LEAVE because they have next to no chance at getting a decent start. The bittervets have AMPLE opportunity to play Eve - elsewhere. They PREFER to sit in highsec killing noobs (or supporting it) and then justify it with "This is Eve" bullshit. Pure and simple.

If we keep catering only for the bandy-kneed old men of Eve it will become "Bittervets Retirement Home version 4".

Partly why we got an apology is my guess

Irrelevant.

A house could have it's doors wide open and no car in the parking lot... but you and you alone would still be held criminally responsible were you to enter the house and take something from it.

Someone could leave their car running and the door wide open... but you and you alone would still be held criminally responsible were you to drive off in it.

And before anyone wants to whine about how "but that's real life, EVE is just a game", my response is: Isn't EVE suppose to be "just like real life"? :-)

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that we were suddenly talking about Hulkageddon, since the OP made no such mention of it and only made reference to said "normal circumstances".

(BTW, Announcing that you're going to rob someone's house also does not abrogate your own criminal responsibility.)



If CCP keeps catering only to the bittervets, then that's the only people who will play. And, in reality, the "bittervets" are a very small minority of EVE: Fact: The total average SP for characters on EVE is around 10-14 million. That's how many months of play-time...? 10?

Another Interesting Fact: There are 20,000 trial accounts created each month.

True, EVE is just a game. However, EVE is no longer filling a "niche" - EVE is now in the mainstream, and like it or not, the type of people who are being drawn to EVE are not the same sort of players who got into the game 3, 4, 8 years ago. CCP is going to either have to adapt to these new players (and secure more capital in the process), or it'll unnecessarily restrict itself to a very small player market, which will eventually exhaust itself.

*shrug*

But an untanked Hulk (or barge in general) is just ASKING to be "graped in the mouth!"

Dissallowing suicide ganking is just silly - you all say that that gankers are stopping you from playing the game the way you want - Isn't dissallowing them from ganking preventing them from doing what they want ? It cuts both ways after all.

I was just aiming for a laugh in my last reply. I've never actually fired on a barge of any type, but I couldn't help leaving something in response to the post. I've mined (high, low and nullsec) and never been fired on and I've got friends that have been popped on the undock of their home station. New Eden is a cold place, CCP's never tried to hide that. Sure, new players may end up getting the short end of the stick on a occasion, but in regards to things like Hulkageddon and Goons current attack on ice miners would not, in fact, impact new players in most cases based on the targets. Last time I checked, Ospreys and Bantams weren't on the list of targets

New Eden is also a place where actions have consequences, looks like gankers have had a trouble free ride long enough in my opinion.

I think things are fine the way they are, with the exception of insurance. If you commit a ship to blowing up another ship illegally in high sec, the insurance should be invalidated. If you want to suicide gank, you will really have to want to.