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Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
41
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Posted - 2011.10.31 19:30:00 -
[91] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:
There is an incredibly easy solution to the problem: remove all of the isk making grinds and industrial/trading portions of the game. Put out an endless supply of free ships. Everyone will PvP because there wouldn't be anything to lose.
Maybe the people over at World of Tanks and CCP can get together and give your risk free PvP
WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot!
-Vric |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
599
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 19:35:00 -
[92] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:griefing should have limits
Griefing is against the ToS and you should report anybody doing it.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 19:44:00 -
[93] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Nowhere in New Eden is 100% safe.
There is no way in hell I am going to read the OP's epic wall of text.
But that quote stood out.
Please enlighten me how unsafe it is when docked in a station? |
baltec1
161
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 19:44:00 -
[94] - Quote
Lharanai wrote:[quote=baltec1]
But you already knew how EVE works, you knew the mechanisms, you knew the tools, so sorry you did not, because of your knowledge you can never start like a real noob
I see you didnt read all of my post. |
Lharanai
Empyrean Guard
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:19:00 -
[95] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lharanai wrote:[quote=baltec1]
But you already knew how EVE works, you knew the mechanisms, you knew the tools, so sorry you did not, because of your knowledge you can never start like a real noob I see you didnt read all of my post.
I have to admit, you got me 
Touch my **** and I will **** your **** with an rusty **** and **** into your ****, and then I will **** your **** until you ******************** |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
The Lostboys
109
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:26:00 -
[96] - Quote
While at present its true that no ship in space is totally safe, there is the question: Is it best for the game of Eve for it to remain that way?
Ive seen many posts supporting high sec ganking that to me look like the gankers are trying to remain relevant. But to me it seems the main ones who benefit from ganking are the gankers, those who get the short end are the victims. And there are far more victims than gankers.
Given this imbalance, should high sec ganking remain part of the game? Does it really add a net value to Eve?
Also there is the issue of what high sec ganking does to subscriptions. If it was removed would eve grow faster than if it remained? When you unsub you get a questionnaire asking why. CCP has some idea of how many people quit due to ganks. CCP most likely also knows how many ships are destroyed in high sec due to ganks and thus could answer the question of how big a driver it is to the economy. CCP is in a position to estimate whether removing high sec ganking would make for more subs without hurting the economy. Maybe CCP has done this and are leaning toward their removal, and hence all these "gankers trying to remain relevant" threads.
My guess is high sec ganking is entertainment for a tiny minority while being an annoyance and a pall to game play for a large number of others, and does little to to drive the economy. And if so, it may be best to just remove it.
CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should.
Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Cambarus
Clearly Compensating
The Dark Triad
19
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Posted - 2011.10.31 20:28:00 -
[97] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:Quote:Ganking is part of the game. It doesn't matter whether or not its part of the game. Lots of things USED TO BE part of the game. Hell, super carriers with drones are part of the game but they soon won't be. The only real discussion to have is whether or not it SHOULD BE part of the game. So, rather than telling everyone thats how it is and suck it, tell us why it should be part of the game. My guess is that you're argument will essentially be 1. its part of the game 2. nothing should be safe 3. Variations on risk vs reward. The argument will likely be refuted with 1. my post above 2. griefing should have limits 3. nullsec carebear bots mean sov holders get huge rewards for no risk while they simultaneously berate hisec carebears (and bots).
We're already AT the happy middle ground, and the problem with ganking/griefing is grossly overstated. How often would you say the average person gets ganked in highsec? Not how many ganks/other forms of grief HAPPEN in highsec, but how often it happens per person. I'd wager it's a few times a year, tops, unless they're doing something really stupid. And the people who DO get griefed/ganked fairly often come whining to the forums, where they are bombarded with help/advice (albeit somewhat condescending advice, though that doesn't make it wrong) on ways to reduce the risk to practically zero. And yes, provided you don't go around giving people a REASON to gank you, the odds of getting ganked are very, very slim.
Mara Villoso wrote:
There is an incredibly easy solution to the problem: remove all of the isk making grinds and industrial/trading portions of the game. Put out an endless supply of free ships. Everyone will PvP because there wouldn't be anything to lose.
The isk grinds are one of the big things that make eve FUN. It's not so much the grinding itself, but rather the fact that every loss represents, you know, LOSS. If you don't get jittery the first time you go out pvping (hell I still get them when I pvp for the first time in a few weeks) then there's something wrong with you. Without the grind, there is no risk, and without the risk, pvp becomes really boring really fast.
Lharanai wrote:
But you already knew how EVE works, you knew the mechanisms, you knew the tools, so sorry you did not, because of your knowledge you can never start like a real noob
When I first started playing we were given something like 30k starting sp (if you picked right, it was notably less if you chose a poor career path while making a character) and the tutorial was basically "Here's your rookie ship, there's the door." Eve is most certainly NOT harder on new players than it was several years ago.
Null being conquered just means that going out there requires that you join an established corp, which tends to be much easier than taking space yourself anyway, and that's assuming you don't want to just ninja-rat, which is still very much doable anyway.
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baltec1
161
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:29:00 -
[98] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:While at present its true that no ship in space is totally safe, there is the question: Is it best for the game of Eve for it to remain that way?
Ive seen many posts supporting high sec ganking that to me look like the gankers are trying to remain relevant. But to me it seems the main ones who benefit from ganking are the gankers, those who get the short end are the victims. And there are far more victims than gankers.
Given this imbalance, should high sec ganking remain part of the game? Does it really add a net value to Eve?
Also there is the issue of what high sec ganking does to subscriptions. If it was removed would eve grow faster than if it remained? When you unsub you get a questionnaire asking why. CCP has some idea of how many people quit due to ganks. CCP most likely also knows how many ships are destroyed in high sec due to ganks and thus could answer the question of how big a driver it is to the economy. CCP is in a position to estimate whether removing high sec ganking would make for more subs without hurting the economy. Maybe CCP has done this and are leaning toward their removal, and hence all these "gankers trying to remain relevant" threads.
My guess is high sec ganking is entertainment for a tiny minority while being an annoyance and a pall to game play for a large number of others, and does little to to drive the economy. And if so, it may be best to just remove it.
Considering EVE has been growing for almost a decade now and that I have had one gank attempt in the past 6 years on one of my haulers I would say its a none issue to all but a few. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 20:54:00 -
[99] - Quote
In a nutshell;
Gankers
"We don't want miners in Highsec (Which is less than 20% of the playable space) to be safe; death to people who dislike the way we play! >:D Ignore the 80% of the game universe which is totally conductive to the way we play! We need the entire game world to be completely unforgiving to all players who don't want to fight, get blown up and die! We need ganking to be brainless & easy! New players can go die in a fire!"
Miners & Missioners
"We're sick of people who take advantage of our brainless AFK mining! We shouldn't need to think about our actions or have any consequences for our lack of precautions! We demand the ability to make unlimited money doing absolutely nothing of any actual work! Those gankers should be thankful, we build their ships & get their minerals! RAWR!"
From what I see, everyone is lazy & feels privileged with their position. Really, this is just highlighting the community's complete inability to compromise on issues of any actual worth.
Make ganking harder to do in hisec, but make the Ores/Planets/Anomalies/Missions/Moons found in Lowsec & Nulsec massively more alluring. This would give the people interested in being safe the ability to do so, but it would also bring others to the more dangerous areas where they could be easily killed. This along with other small things would benefit everyone.
Damn it.
"Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?"
"How wrong you are" |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:32:00 -
[100] - Quote
Aida Nu wrote:@The Apostle and Justin Credulent
Interesting to see that two players that joined the game a couple of months ago have embarked on a crusade to change a game thats been played a certain way since 2003.
Early 2009 I started playing. I had 7 accounts. I'm now down to 4. (and just in case you ask, I don't post on a main because I have 20b+ in BPO's sitting in towers on 30 day cycles - I'd be stupid)
My whole argument against suicide ganking is NOT the ganking per se - it's that bittervets are refusing to entertain ANY idea of moving forward to allow newer players coming in to enjoy their game in whatever way THEY want. If it continues our game will die.
It's fine for CCP to keep bringing to the game but it's finite and they CANNOT rely on just Eve to survive. They will need cash to also move forward, in either new or enhanced product. We also need to be thinking of NEW and BETTER ways to bring in more fresh blood.
I'm advocating for newer players so that MORE people come in, growing the game. If that means an area or style of play needs to be protected then so be it. If not then instead of poo-poohing every notion of an idea, add something of value to the issues.
And one thing that pisses me off more than anything is when people blatantly refuse to accept there are issues and maintain some glorified "this is how it is" as a reason to do nothing. If people had done that in the real world we'd still be hunting woolly mammoths.
Let me get one thing straight. *I* know how to look after myself. I can pay for and lose any ship I want so anything I say is not in MY interests directly. I don't actually care about MY playstyle. It's why I am immune to troll/sflames.
MY interests are purely in the defense of Eve sustainability first and growth second.
It's bittervets holding up the whole process of change by using nostalgia and pathetic memes to justify an action that by and large is pointless.
You're defending this rather pointless activity sooo damn hard which is hard to fathom but you're protecting an ideology, not a reality. People are averse to loss and if the losses are so high that the process of accumulation becomes pointless they will leave.
THIS is what concerns me. Not the protection of some quaint code of honor and cute memes.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest.
WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:40:00 -
[101] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Considering EVE has been growing for almost a decade now and that I have had one gank attempt in the past 6 years on one of my haulers I would say its a none issue to all but a few.
And this is actually a fair point.
Even Hulkageddon was limited in that it ran for 10 days or so. No real biggie. But a concerted effort to bring suicide ganking to a sustained and deadly (long-term?) operation is a whole new ball game.
There are players in Eve that are ONLY miners. It's all they do. It's all they've trained to be. Sustained and prolonged miner victimization WILL have an effect on their ability to enjoy the game. It will cost.
It's a very short-sighted view to be quoting nothing but memes to justify repeated vicious acts in the name of "the sandbox" on ONE type of player.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest.
WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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baltec1
163
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:46:00 -
[102] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Considering EVE has been growing for almost a decade now and that I have had one gank attempt in the past 6 years on one of my haulers I would say its a none issue to all but a few. And this is actually a fair point. Even Hulkageddon was limited in that it ran for 10 days or so. No real biggie. But a concerted effort to bring suicide ganking to a sustained and deadly (long-term?) operation is a whole new ball game. There are players in Eve that are ONLY miners. It's all they do. It's all they've trained to be. Sustained and prolonged miner victimization WILL have an effect on their ability to enjoy the game. It will cost. It's a very short-sighted view to be quoting nothing but memes to justify repeated vicious acts in the name of "the sandbox" on ONE type of player.
We are talking about a handfull of systems in gal space. The vast bulk of high sec is business as usaual and ganks a rare thing. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
544
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:48:00 -
[103] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:There are players in Eve that are ONLY miners. It's all they do. It's all they've trained to be. Sustained and prolonged miner victimization WILL have an effect on their ability to enjoy the game. It will cost.
I didn't realize we had managed to shut down all mining in the game. That's impressive even for us!
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:48:00 -
[104] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The Apostle wrote:baltec1 wrote:Considering EVE has been growing for almost a decade now and that I have had one gank attempt in the past 6 years on one of my haulers I would say its a none issue to all but a few. And this is actually a fair point. Even Hulkageddon was limited in that it ran for 10 days or so. No real biggie. But a concerted effort to bring suicide ganking to a sustained and deadly (long-term?) operation is a whole new ball game. There are players in Eve that are ONLY miners. It's all they do. It's all they've trained to be. Sustained and prolonged miner victimization WILL have an effect on their ability to enjoy the game. It will cost. It's a very short-sighted view to be quoting nothing but memes to justify repeated vicious acts in the name of "the sandbox" on ONE type of player. We are talking about a handfull of systems in gal space. The vast bulk of high sec is business as usaual and ganks a rare thing.
Have you kept up with the news?
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest.
WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:The Apostle wrote:There are players in Eve that are ONLY miners. It's all they do. It's all they've trained to be. Sustained and prolonged miner victimization WILL have an effect on their ability to enjoy the game. It will cost. I didn't realize we had managed to shut down all mining in the game. That's impressive even for us!
Have YOU kept up with the news?
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest.
WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
41
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:52:00 -
[106] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:The Apostle wrote:There are players in Eve that are ONLY miners. It's all they do. It's all they've trained to be. Sustained and prolonged miner victimization WILL have an effect on their ability to enjoy the game. It will cost. I didn't realize we had managed to shut down all mining in the game. That's impressive even for us! Have YOU kept up with the news?
If we had been able to shut down all mining through New Eden, Dear Leader would have sent out a Jabber broadcast and there'd be a thread about it on our internal boards. I don't know what you're using as a source, mate, but it's a bit off on it's intel for you.
WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot!
-Vric |
baltec1
163
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:53:00 -
[107] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
Have you kept up with the news?
What tin foil theory have you been reading now? |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
544
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:54:00 -
[108] - Quote
Let me guess...Riverini made up some more stuff about us? |
Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
41
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:57:00 -
[109] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Let me guess...Riverini made up some more stuff about us?
I don't see an "article" (I'm using that term to be nice here) on EVENews24 yet, but I'm sure something's coming.
WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot!
-Vric |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 21:57:00 -
[110] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Let me guess...Riverini made up some more stuff about us?
Mittens himself said he is talking to Helicity to start a campaign that would make previous Hulkageddons look like dog and pony shows.
He may also be no more than trolling. I accept that as a possibility as well but he has posted twice on Eve-O about it.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest.
WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Aida Nu
Nu Industries
6
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:58:00 -
[111] - Quote
Ok Mr 7 accounts.
Stop pulling science from your ass that EVE is going to die and we are all doomed if EVE doesnt become fluffy pony land.
From my understanding this game keeps growing and has always done so since its beginning.
For each year there are more and more subscribers. So no, just because you started playing this game and didnt find some aspects of it to your liking does not mean its dying.
And dont try to bullshit us that you care for new players. You are just sad that your alt got ganked while you where activating veldspar violator modules on your other 6 accounts, and wasnt paying attention.
And its not about defending a "pointless activity". The "bittervets" and many more of us are trying to stop people like you from turning EVE into something its not. Trying to stop it being dumbed down, restricted and divided into non-pvp areas and pvp areas. That will surely be the doom of this game.
I can agree that insurance for example could be halved or something if you explode to Concord. I think most people are ok with that.
But you and your 6 other accounts are spamming the forums for removing the possibility for non-consensual PVP in some areas. And that i do not agree with, as are many others.
EVEs core mechanics and idea should NOT change because miners are to lazy to align to a station and keep an eye on the overview if a combat ship is approaching them. |
baltec1
163
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Let me guess...Riverini made up some more stuff about us? Mittens himself said he is talking to Helicity to start a campaign that would make previous Hulkageddons look like dog and pony shows. He may also be no more than trolling. I accept that as a possibility as well but he has posted twice on Eve-O about it.
God forbid the next hulkageddon will have better prizes. |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
58
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:06:00 -
[113] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
Any player that is HAPPY to have fire rain down on their heads is either a masochist or flat-out lying.
Let me guess, you are one of those people in real life that never does anything for fear of losing. Half of the fun of this game is that you may lose your 'stuff' at any point in time. Playing games without the potential of loss equals a massive waste of time. Even more of a waste of time then losing that ship you worked weeks to get into. PERIOD!
Slade
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Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:07:00 -
[114] - Quote
Well I'm a miner, if EvE turns into the my little pony land that the clampet apostle wants then I'm outa here and I think a lot more would leave than those who left due to monaclegate.
PvP-free zones goes against one of the founding principles of EvE - it's a cold dark universe.
If you want to hold hands then I may suggest Star trek online. |
Klask Atriund
Kindred Rising
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Ha, this got me |
Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
41
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:11:00 -
[116] - Quote
Aida Nu wrote:EVEs core mechanics and idea should NOT change because miners are to lazy to align to a station and keep an eye on the overview if a combat ship is approaching them.
This right here is the single most important bit of info every miner should know and use. As people have pointed out that tanking your Hulk isn't always going to work We can alpha other battleships and freighters with the right numbers, so your Hulk is not special if it's tanked.
I do think that one of the reasons that CCP is always pushing players to join corps is because you can ask for help and info in corp and alliance channels. Depending on your corp, you'll get trolled on occasion, but a lot of us Bitter Vets are actually willing to answer questions and help new players out. We're willing to share info with our corp mates so they don't lose ships for stupid reasons and yes, losing your barge to a gank in High Sec is a stupid way to a lose a ship and a costly lesson, but it's better to lose that Covetor to Goons (or some other ganker) early on and get over the loss of ships instead of going two or three years without losing one and then having to deal with that pricey freighter loss that may set you off. This is why the tutorials that CCP put in place actually cover a ship loss now, so you know it can happen and that once it's gone, it's not coming back.
If people want to AFK mine or AFK haul, they need to be aware that they stand a chance of losing that shiny little bit of pixels they've got there and if that bothers them, EVE is not the game for them and never will be. Those that think EVE would be a great game if PvP was opt in or High Sec was 100% safe need to take their crusade somewhere else and never come back to EVE and we won't join the games they want to play and try to make it all PvP all the time.
WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot!
-Vric |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 22:12:00 -
[117] - Quote
Aida Nu wrote:Ok Mr 7 accounts.
It's 4.
Aida Nu wrote:
EVEs core mechanics and idea should NOT change because miners are to lazy to align to a station and keep an eye on the overview if a combat ship is approaching them.
Ofc. Your views are noted and have been waxed lyrically on by a few with the same moronic mentality.
"Combat ship approaching" and "Align to station" are two such moronic points of contention.
As I have said countless times, you are asking me to believe that EVERY SINGLE MINER of the 1500+ taken out by Goons in the ice interdiction alone were stupid and had no idea at all how to play. NONE of them?
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest.
WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
29
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:13:00 -
[118] - Quote
WTB: Sophistry Skillbook
Root cause of the problem--massive amounts of liquidity doing nothing in corp and player wallets. Tends to produce boredom. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 22:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:The Apostle wrote:
Any player that is HAPPY to have fire rain down on their heads is either a masochist or flat-out lying.
Let me guess, you are one of those people in real life that never does anything for fear of losing. Half of the fun of this game is that you may lose your 'stuff' at any point in time. Playing games without the potential of loss equals a massive waste of time. Even more of a waste of time then losing that ship you worked weeks to get into. PERIOD! Slade
Around this place, it's more of a risk defying the status quo.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest.
WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
41
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:15:00 -
[120] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Aida Nu wrote:Ok Mr 7 accounts.
It's 4. Aida Nu wrote:
EVEs core mechanics and idea should NOT change because miners are to lazy to align to a station and keep an eye on the overview if a combat ship is approaching them.
Ofc. Your views are noted and have been waxed lyrically on by a few with the same moronic mentality. "Combat ship approaching" and "Align to station" are two such moronic points of contention. As I have said countless times, you are asking me to believe that EVERY SINGLE MINER of the 1500+ taken out by Goons in the ice interdiction alone were stupid and had no idea at all how to play. NONE of them?
Actually, if you read the chat logs posted to our internal boards and some of the eve mails that have posted, you'd be inclined to agree that a great many of those lost barges were flown by people that had no idea they even be shot at in High Sec.
WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot!
-Vric |
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