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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:26:00 -
[91] - Quote
Tallest, listen brother....
some change is better than no change, i'll give you that. you seem to have a good understanding of what's wrong (you mentioned projectiles, and the possibility of the actual ships needing boosts).
but these changes dont even scratch the surface, not even close. you have to look at it this way:
- why should i use a blaster boat over an AC or pulse boat? - if the role is not changing, then make these guns as desirable as lasers and projectiles - blaster platforms need to be the fastest in the game or have some sort of resistance to scrambling, or more resists to damage, or a really long web, or something, hands down. you cant leave these ships status quo (10m/s boost is nothing, 30m/s boost would be something) - if youre not touching the ships much, then increase blaster range and falloff significantly. i hate to say it, but make them like AC's.
i cant stress this enough, please consider an AC nerf as a viable solution to this mess. then simply balance rails and blasters to pulses at medium range
TLDR: projectiles are simply overpowered, consider nerfing them. blasters need to be as appealing as AC's and pulses in some way. if youre not changing the role of these weapons, blaster boats need some serious buffing; they should be the fastest OR the most resilient in the game.
thanks for listening, this is a great start. im sure some other players will give you a much better breakdown of what i mentioned above because the community is pretty much in agreement. |
Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc.
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:28:00 -
[92] - Quote
Good start but compared to projectiles hybrids still still need cap, can not swtich damage output type and have less range.
SO a 5-10% damage increase should really be given to become somewhat be in line with them. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Jackie Fisher wrote:No cap usage reduction? Actually, yes there is. I accidentally left it out of the blog. Sorry about that. It is being added to the blog right now. Reduced Capacitor usage: * All hybrid turrets: -30% capacitor use
Now, on to that issue of rails having way too much wasted range. |
Wacktopia
Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.
22
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:29:00 -
[94] - Quote
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:Schmell wrote:And S, M and L railguns still dont have place in current meta game (beam dont have it either funnily enough). All Hail (and quake) MINMATAR I can't help but echo this sentiment. Rails still have no way to leverage that "average damage," at the rediculously long range they've got (that's before you recall that caldari ships also have an optimal bonus). Furthermore I see no mention of cap usage, tracking, or reload time: all of which plague the rail pilot in practice and make the platform a comparatively sub-par choice. I want to believe that 10% damage and a little more leeway on grid/cpu will make headway for rails, but I have serious doubts. Wacktopia wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:Stan Kirby wrote:Minmatar or projectile boost: - +100% artillery burst damage - overpowered cynobal, machariel, dramiel - huge falloff bonus from TE and TC. ... Gallente/hybrid boost: - blasters tracking speed +20% .... LOL - railguns +10% damage ... megaLOL CCP fail... again. It does have that feeling doesn't it? No... it has the feeling of CCP trying to balance something without creating FOTM lol-damage-mobiles. Lets just see how these changes actually affect the game. If they're not enough they have already said they will go back and look at armor tanking ships combined with hybrids in future. It should be obvious to anyone with a shred of experience using railguns on non-frigate hulls that these changes are not going to do much of anything. I think we all know what happens if these ineffectual changes go live and are promised to be reviewed "in the future." I'd much rather see rails go fotm for a while than continue to see them all-but-ignored for another half decade.
I agree this patch is more blaster-focused than rails.
I'm wondering if we're going to see an on-grid warp nerf to 200-250km? |
David Xavier
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:29:00 -
[95] - Quote
Fix the forums so posts don't get eaten by it. Really annoying!
The lowering of fitting requirements is welcome!
About rails, if they are intended to be "The Average" long range weapons system between artillery and beam lasers, then please tune tracking accordingly as well. Currently targets easily get under the guns due to lack of alpha and the lack of tracking.
For example the Tech 2 350mm railgun should have more like 0.01328 instead of 0.01167 rad/sec tracking , without skills and modules. |
stoicfaux
341
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:30:00 -
[96] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:"Hail (all sizes): Removed falloff penalty" Sorry, RF Fusion...
Agreed. Definitely reduced demand for RF Fusion.
edit: Plus a 11.6% damage boost for Ye Olde Angel hunting Vargur... Nice.
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Dalton Vanadis
Miranda United F0RCEFUL ENTRY
420
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:31:00 -
[97] - Quote
Nice guys. I might have to give hybrids another go at this point. I await your further iteration on the matter though; as many have pointed out here and it seemed with your dev blog, there is a lot of examination and study to be done on how well this buffs up hybrids and their uses in actual gameplay. |
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:31:00 -
[98] - Quote
Charles Edisson wrote:Much as I love these new changes (I have 2 Gallante toons) CCP need to do something about their insider trading. I love the fact that somehow from a new Dev blog today all the ammo types that have just had boosts anounced were bought up off the market 7 days ago. Players that are involved in the balancing/development ideas should not be able to make huge sums of isk out of inside trading.
Test server base dump was laid out a week ago. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:31:00 -
[99] - Quote
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:CCP Tallest wrote:Jackie Fisher wrote:No cap usage reduction? Actually, yes there is. I accidentally left it out of the blog. Sorry about that. It is being added to the blog right now. Reduced Capacitor usage: * All hybrid turrets: -30% capacitor use Now, on to that issue of rails having way too much wasted range.
Yeah like remove the optimal range bonus and replace with a rate of fire bonus |
xo3e
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Quote:blaster platforms need to be the fastest in the game or have some sort of resistance to scrambling, or more resists to damage, or a really long web, or something, hands down. you cant leave these ships status quo (10m/s boost is nothing, 30m/s boost would be something)
blasters platforms are fine. here we have few carebears on vindicators in the corner of the map. you cant say now, that blaster boats is unusable at all HA-HA.
srsly ccp what is wrong with you guise? do you even play your own game? at9 gold medal. (boss ******) |
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Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:33:00 -
[101] - Quote
Perdition64 wrote: hurricane vs brutix
this is a good summary of why pvp'ers generally stick with AC platforms.
- incredible falloff - better tracking - no cap use - minnie ships are the fastest - while tank remains on par with all other ships
this is overpowered. you have to give people a reason NOT TO fly an AC boat at medium/close ranges. remember, one scram and the blaster boat is dead in the water....AC boat is still doing significant damage at 25km, medium blasters dont work past 10km.
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:33:00 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Jackie Fisher wrote:No cap usage reduction? Actually, yes there is. I accidentally left it out of the blog. Sorry about that. It is being added to the blog right now. Reduced Capacitor usage: * All hybrid turrets: -30% capacitor use
Ok that takes care of the power hungry issue for the guns but still leaves some big issues.-á
Can I be cap stable if I fit the required MWD? What about ships like the Hyperion that have and active rep bonus that cycles them faster, sucks more power.-á
What about how armor tanking makes you slow?
What about kitting gallente ships with scram making it so they can't get in range to do their theoretical damage.-á |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
33
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
I pulled up EFT. First ship I looked at was the much maligned DieMost
It will still be DieMost with these stats.
For the first fit I threw together, with perfect fitting skills, this boat does an insane amount of DPS close in....715 pre-heat, which is great, but still has issues.
Incorporating the changes to blasters to the fit below: 1. Power grid changes free up approx 114 grid, which is great and now allows the ability to fit the whole rack of neutron blasters plus an 800 mm plate, barely (boat below uses 1197 of 1237.5 grid) 2. CPU changes free up 10 CPU, which now also allow the ability to fit T2 tackle mods, instead of meta 4/faction. Boat below uses 430.25 of 437.5 CPU 3. However, these are based on leaving the 6th high slot empty. There is not enough CPU or grid for anything useful in there. 4. Top speed of boat with MwD on, no overheat, has gone from 1407 to 1469 m/s. That is clearly not enough to make a difference. 5. Total EHP with T1 Trimarks on fit below comes in at 41,595. Might be a tad light when compared to other slow HAC's, but something that can be lived with, IF it was slightly faster.
[[Deimos, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Armor Explosive Hardener II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot]
Hammerhead II x5 |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Nimrod Nemesis wrote:CCP Tallest wrote:Jackie Fisher wrote:No cap usage reduction? Actually, yes there is. I accidentally left it out of the blog. Sorry about that. It is being added to the blog right now. Reduced Capacitor usage: * All hybrid turrets: -30% capacitor use Now, on to that issue of rails having way too much wasted range. Yeah like remove the optimal range bonus and replace with a rate of fire bonus
Allow a choice between RoF and Alpha based on ammunition, imo. |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
121
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
Excellent! New Player "boost" https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=243993#post243993 Mining + War Decks = yummy! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25608&find=unread |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:40:00 -
[106] - Quote
by the way Tallest, when it comes to cruiser-sized ships, gallente pilots have nothing to snipe with. the Ishtar is merely situational because sentries cant move with the ship.
similarly to brutix vs. hurricane discussion, you gotta think about deimos vs. beam zealot. make the deimos a VIABLE ship. also think: brutix has more EHP and dps....why fly a HAC blaster boat?
take each gallente ship and ask yourself - why would anyone fly this over something else? if you cant find an answer, then that ship needs to be brought up to par. |
Ripard Teg
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
5
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:42:00 -
[107] - Quote
These are all very decent changes! I congratulate CCP for taking some good first steps in the direction of rebalancing hybrids, and hope that their efforts continue into the new year.
Still, there's one other change that should be strongly contemplated for this iteration: please increase medium rail damage more than 10%.
While small and large rail damage will benefit from the proposed change, +10% damage is still not going to be enough for the medium rails, which are still going to be rather ridiculously sub-par even after this buff. Comparing (for instance) the DPS output of a Muninn versus an Eagle will show that even with a 10% increase, the Eagle finds itself laughably disadvantaged in every respect. And the less said about trying to compare a rail Ferox versus an arty Cane, the better.
CCP, please increase medium rail damage by 20%, not 10%. Thank you! Jester's Trek: wherein I ramble about EVE Online, gaming, and from time to time... life. |
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
32
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:45:00 -
[108] - Quote
Rails need 20% more dmg ..... Blasters ... good with 20% more tracking..... but need maby at least 5km longer optimal range ?
And realy ? xl blasters and rails are good enough ? |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
214
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
FYI, Deimos is/will be viable as a sniper (in terms of raw dps +emergency drones) however the Eagle/Moa/Ferox/Vulture situation is painful. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Langbaobao
Most Wanted INC White Noise.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:46:00 -
[110] - Quote
Quote:Max Velocity +10 on the following ships:
Arazu, Astarte, Brutix, Catalyst, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Enyo, Eos, Falcon, Guardian-Vexor, Helios, Incursus, Ishtar, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant
Quote:Inertia Modifier -5% on the following ships:
Adrestia, Arazu, Ares, Astarte, Atron, Brutix, Catalyst, Celestis, Cormorant, Daredevil, Deimos, Dominix, Dominix Navy Issue, Eagle, Enyo, Eos, Eris, Exequror Navy Issue, Falcon, Federation Navy Comet, Ferox, Guardian-Vexor, Harpy, Helios, Hyperion, Incursus, Ishkur, Ishtar, Kronos, Lachesis, Maulus, Megathron, Megathron Federate Issue, Megathron Navy Issue, Merlin, Moa, Phobos, Raptor, Rokh, Sin, Taranis, Thorax, Tristan, Utu, Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Vigilant, Vindicator, Vulture
The Falcon is a hybrid ship? O Rly? I don't think I've ever seen one fitted with rails, they always have missile launchers for killmailwhoring. A really good Falcon pilot doesn't even put anything because that's not the job of a Falcon. Let's be serious about this. Do we want Falcons even more maneuverable, so they can escape more easily the just retribution of those they've jammed? I don't think so...
With regards to the Rokh, I'm unsure, since it's a shield ship so already relatively maneuverable. But as already mentioned, I don't see this becoming the are of the Rokh. But is to be kept on eye.
And last but not least the Myrmidon, I haven't seen it on the list. An explanation for that? |
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Forlorn Wongraven
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
10
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:47:00 -
[111] - Quote
Can we get Sisi updated to all skills at 5? Same for supercap changes. We had that two years ago with DD and supercarrier introduction - please help us helping you testing! Ugleb > and TDR won't log in so long as their core members are demotivated for whichever reason is in flavour this week |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:48:00 -
[112] - Quote
Langbaobao wrote: The Falcon is a hybrid ship? O Rly? I don't think I've ever seen one fitted with rails, they always have missile launchers for killmailwhoring. A really good Falcon pilot doesn't even put anything because that's not the job of a Falcon. Let's be serious about this. Do we want Falcons even more maneuverable, so they can escape more easily the just retribution of those they've jammed? I don't think so...
Valid.
Langbaobao wrote: With regards to the Rokh, I'm unsure, since it's a shield ship so already relatively maneuverable. But as already mentioned, I don't see this becoming the are of the Rokh. But is to be kept on eye.
ROFL, I hope you're joking. |
Baneken
The New Knighthood The Polaris Syndicate
14
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:48:00 -
[113] - Quote
On grid scanning nerf would definitely make rails (and sniping) more viable again, but it wouldn't really take that long to fleets have cov ops hovering at the edge of a grid for some quick scanning to get a warp in which would take us right back to start.
However if information warfare links would proportionally decrease your signature instead of targeting range (so that you would be extremely difficult to scan down from a grid) sniping might see return with rails. Though that change would likely lead to another sort of meta gaming with AFK alts and T3's in WH's and we'd be back to square one.
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Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
3
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:51:00 -
[114] - Quote
If price is considered a broad indication of utility and attractiveness to players, then the clear omission is spike the cheapest T2 hybrid ammo and even border line unprofitable to make from a BPO. |
Garbad theWeak
17
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:52:00 -
[115] - Quote
This is an excellent start, but there are still a few issues. I've plugged all this into the test version of pyfa and fooled around a bit with fits. As I see it:
- hybrid snipers are once again top in the game. At 200k, they outperform even lasers, and shockingly, caldari are the best. I think hybrids are officially fixed. You can debate if armor snipers are still better, but its competitive, especially the naga. They also should easily outrange pulses now.
- blasters are still inferior. They get a slight increase in damage at the cost of inferior range/speed. Blasters are still all but useless outside of a very small gang situation.
- inability to switch damage types hurts. The proposed swaps between kin/them and therm/kin would REALLY help.
I think the next step for blasterboats is to buff those ships individually. |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
3
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Langbaobao wrote:With regards to the Rokh, I'm unsure, since it's a shield ship so already relatively maneuverable. Rokhs. Maneuvrable.
Sir, you never fly one of these.
Also, picture of the day :
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/856/sharkrokh.png |
Sannikoff
GOP KOHTOPA
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:54:00 -
[117] - Quote
politically correct. we bust hybrid weapons after bust minmatars weapons. |
Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:54:00 -
[118] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Rails need 20% more dmg .....-á Blasters ... good with 20% more tracking..... but need -ámaby at least 5km longer optimal range ? And realy ? -áxl blasters and rails are good enough ? -á
XL Blasters tracking is a actually too good as blaster Titans **** sub caps. If they nerf them though they won't hit their attended target. XL guns probably need a code change to prevent sub cap **** like they did with fighter bombers.-á |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:55:00 -
[119] - Quote
Umm you do know that shootings over 150km is useless |
Bilaz
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
18
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Posted - 2011.10.31 15:56:00 -
[120] - Quote
ok, so you tweaked hybrid guns a bit. now where is the boost we have been waiting for ages?
Everything is horribly wrong with hybrids now - they are useless and worthless - and they would still be worthless and useless after these changes, maybe not so horribly but still. (small and xl are fine btw) You may look back how incredibly projectiles were boosted and they were twice as good as hybrids now to begin with. get us something of that calibre and magnitude please. |
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