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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2006.01.28 18:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Pity it's such a pita to adminstrate all this stuff or you could at least try basing collateral value on a percentage of market rates instead of mineral value, or whichever is higher of the two. That would already go part of the way to that new ground.
Yup, yup and yup.
I'm not ruling it out either. But for starters we will take it slow, and see where it takes us.
/me puts wishfull thinking hat on CCP might even pay attention to this, and introduce some tools making the admin easier. Which would give us better time (and maybe tools) to expand the BMBE with things like youve sugested.
BIG Lottery
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Niaski Zalani
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Posted - 2006.01.28 18:37:00 -
[32]
Mmm it looks like a good plan TS (and a really ambitous one at that)... but, at least for me, there seems to be a big hole in the worst-case logic:
Say I invest 1b... and I wait.. and wait... and wait... and nobody (or hardly any) take out loans with the bank... thus, I don't see any proffit off my 1b... and now I read that if this were to happen (if no loans were taken out), then you are just going to keep my bil? Whats up with that? Why not, if after x ammount of time there are no loans taken out (or less then required to generate a good payback for investers), send the isk back to the investors and close up shop? Why should BIG keep my isk if it fails? include 'clue'; if ($youdontliket2prices == 1) { $dontbuyt2 == 1 }; |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2006.01.28 18:39:00 -
[33]
Edited by: TornSoul on 28/01/2006 18:39:33
Already answered
BIG Lottery
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Rthor
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Posted - 2006.01.28 19:13:00 -
[34]
I dont know if you answered this or if I understand you correctly but when I read what I read I thought this:
Why would people take out a loan at 75 percent of mineral value when they can recycle them for 100 percent of mineral value?
The reason why they would not recycle but rather would use your bank would be because in a station where they have their crap there is no market for minerals.
So people who can recycle their crap and sell the minerals would not use you. But people who could not recycle their crap would use you. So after some time you are going to have a ton of "assets" all over the universe that you will either have to go collect and transport to a hub for recycling or you will hold them indefinitely. If that happens your bank will collapse.
Is there something in your plan that addresses this?
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2006.01.28 19:19:00 -
[35]
Your question is : What do we intend to do about all the stuff, we will end up with having spread all over the EVEverse, due to defaulted loans ?
As stated, we plan to recycle and sell it - To be used for shareholder dividend. As also stated - If that turns out to be huge amounts - We will probably contract out some of the work (creating jobs)
The work involved in this is part of what the BMBE is getting paid for (half of the profit)
BIG Lottery
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.01.28 20:02:00 -
[36]
So what do you do if lets say BoB and [5] wardec you because they fear you will become to powerfull, destroying every single ship you have?
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2006.01.28 20:17:00 -
[37]
Can I take out a loan with BMBE in order to afford some shares? __________________ Retard's handbook |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2006.01.28 20:32:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Godar Marak So what do you do if lets say BoB and [5] wardec you because they fear you will become to powerfull, destroying every single ship you have?
As said earlier - BIG itself is not touching any of the capital invested. All that ISK has to be 'at the ready' for when a client comes along wanting a loan.
Same as BIG dont ever touch the BIG Lottery ISK etc.
Originally by: Professor McFly Can I take out a loan with BMBE in order to afford some shares?
BIG Lottery
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.28 20:47:00 -
[39]
Mmhm very interesting development; hope it takes off well ^^
(would have more to add, but that forum hoe Rod already covered the pawnshop angle ;s
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Coahim Madden
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Posted - 2006.01.28 21:22:00 -
[40]
Will you only use it to give out loans, or will you also invest in other isk generating projects?
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Kerushi
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Posted - 2006.01.28 21:33:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Kerushi on 28/01/2006 21:34:09 Torn,
possible to make an appointment to discuss something? ________________
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Saerid
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Posted - 2006.01.28 22:22:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Saerid on 28/01/2006 22:24:20 Definitely a welcome development.
T2 BPO Collateral Model? Nothing says you have to manage those as inanimate objects when used as collateral, if someone hands you a print as a guarantee for a sizable loan.
A true lazy-boy model for getting a loan and paying back would be to have the print held by BIG until you've built enough stuff of it (or even taken copies, for smaller workload). And of course due to the inconvenience involved, you could fit in some hefty margins there. (Payment in cash: 20% total interest, payment in T2 items produced: 50% profit ). Never underestimate the power of convenience. "Here's a print, gimme 500 mil. I'll get it back when you've built 75 cerbs out of it?".
PS. On second thought, looks like Rod Blaine covered it already. Not surprisingly. So this post is redundant redundant.
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.01.28 23:37:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Randay on 28/01/2006 23:43:10 nm. ------------------------------------------- "Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Baun
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Posted - 2006.01.28 23:49:00 -
[44]
10billion isk raised in 8.5 hours or so.
Pretty impressive.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2006.01.28 23:53:00 -
[45]
Good Job Torn, im gonna invest....and if i dont get my dividen i will gank you in copenhagen
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2006.01.29 00:43:00 -
[46]
/me considers paying out EU's dividend in beer instead of ISK...
BIG Lottery
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.01.29 02:09:00 -
[47]
errr i hate math, and stuff. can someone maybe make up a practical example of a dividend payout and how long it might take to see a return on say a 1 bil investment of shares? ------------------------------------------- "Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Callie Nefarious
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Posted - 2006.01.29 02:16:00 -
[48]
When and where do we see notification of shares purchased?
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Baun
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Posted - 2006.01.29 02:33:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Baun on 29/01/2006 02:36:25
Originally by: Randay errr i hate math, and stuff. can someone maybe make up a practical example of a dividend payout and how long it might take to see a return on say a 1 bil investment of shares?
Best case, about 6 2/3 months I think. That is purely on dividend, not reselling shares.
1billion isk is 20 shares. Best case return (based on 50bil loaned with proper timetable)= 7.5mil per share per month, or 150mil per month for a 1billion isk investment.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Baun
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Posted - 2006.01.29 02:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Callie Nefarious When and where do we see notification of shares purchased?
Since TS is probably asleep, I will answer. Shares should be distributed starting Monday, pending how much Nashi's roomate is using the computer :P
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2006.01.29 02:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: TornSoul on 29/01/2006 02:36:28
Edit : Baun beat me to it (and yes I'm heading for bed now )
@Randay
*Best case scenario* : 7 months. But that is best case (15% return each month)
It might as well be.. 3% a month? or... Impossible to know atm. Depends on how much business the BMBE will see.
What do you think?
@Callie Nefarious Shares will be distributed after the weekend. The BIGun incharge of that is not back until monday.
BIG Lottery
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Niaski Zalani
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Posted - 2006.01.29 03:00:00 -
[52]
Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 28/01/2006 18:39:33
Already answered
D'oh.. the double negative screwed me up... include 'clue'; if ($youdontliket2prices == 1) { $dontbuyt2 == 1 }; |
Randay
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Posted - 2006.01.29 03:39:00 -
[53]
It seems very reasonable for the investors, but Im having a hard time thinking of practical situations that someone would take a loan out for. Mostly because of the 75% collateral. Also the value of the collateral will probably change over the course of the loan since mineral prices change all the time, seems like an issue to me. Is it? But then the only thing that doesnt change in value is ISK itself, and why would you put down 75% pure isk as collateral. Its just the collateral part that Im having a hard time with. ------------------------------------------- "Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Krumpit
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Posted - 2006.01.29 04:41:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Krumpit on 29/01/2006 04:42:08 I'd like to come at the collateral point from the other angle.
Are you worried it might be too popular as a quick recycling service? Mission runners can accumulate junk at a rate of knots all over the place, hanger clearance sales already happen on escrow, can the admin side cope with everyone just dumping all their rubbish on you and taking the cash? (no intention to pay interest or repay loan).
Your mineral prices are going to have to compete with market prices at some stage, can they adjust depending on location of assets? (edit: you addressed this one)
Anyway it's the same point as Rod's, minerals are just as volatile as any other asset as security, but I appreciate the "keep it simple" plan at this stage is a good one.
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Baun
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Posted - 2006.01.29 05:44:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Baun on 29/01/2006 05:44:45
Originally by: Krumpit Edited by: Krumpit on 29/01/2006 04:42:08 I'd like to come at the collateral point from the other angle.
Are you worried it might be too popular as a quick recycling service? Mission runners can accumulate junk at a rate of knots all over the place, hanger clearance sales already happen on escrow, can the admin side cope with everyone just dumping all their rubbish on you and taking the cash? (no intention to pay interest or repay loan).
Your mineral prices are going to have to compete with market prices at some stage, can they adjust depending on location of assets? (edit: you addressed this one)
Anyway it's the same point as Rod's, minerals are just as volatile as any other asset as security, but I appreciate the "keep it simple" plan at this stage is a good one.
I would think that small loans with collateral all of the place will simply not be in the interest of the bank to bother with.
On the other hand, if they do take any loan they are making an automatic 25% profit margin on the good escrowed, which isnt too bad.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Muthsera
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Posted - 2006.01.29 07:48:00 -
[56]
I'm just totally blown away that a game can do such complex banking buisnesses and get it to work (well, remains to be seen though) but still.
I think this will be only an asset for those who have quite a lot of idle money. Becus you can earn those 7.5 mill on each 50 mill whitin a days of effort. And 150 mill on each bill, you can earn in a mather of hours if your good. So my point is that you need to focus this towards low isk earners and high isk holders. I feel the greatest problem you will encounter is reputation and stability. Becus nothing spells disaster for a bank quite as much as instability does. Oh. And isn't EVE in essence founded on confrontation?
At any rate. I wish you luck. This will be very interesting to see how it turnes out. My thoughs
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.01.29 09:27:00 -
[57]
how to collect on delinquent outstanding balances? ------------------------------------------- "Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Silvero
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Posted - 2006.01.29 09:53:00 -
[58]
Nice project !
Perhaps you should allow smaller loans* without "proper" creditworthiness if the loantaker have a well known creditor or 2 that says aye.
But since this needs more work from the bank, meaning talking to the creditor and such, the interest might be a little higher. The higher interest for these kind of loans are also there to cover for any scams.
smaller loans = up to perhaps 250-500mil
You need an public list of ppl not paying there debts and eventual creditors that also get thier "names" draged through the mud.
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2006.01.29 12:43:00 -
[59]
Congratulations on the launch of your BIG business idea Torn Soul. It's been great to see BIG's meta gaming over the years in Eve.
Hopefully this will further encourage CCP to support the Share market (Even putting back the share Beta functionality would be an improvement).
Breaking new ground is always fun, and I'm sure BIG won't be the last Investment bank in Eve, but being the first is always a blast.
The base mineral valuation is a solid way to do it - It sounds more like a mortgage to me than a pawn service. Mortgage your current assets, do something clever with the cash, pay off your mortgage.
As a potential investor, I have a few questions: - What is the minimum loan amount that BIG intend to handle? - Will loans be paid out against items that don't refine to minerals (eg. Capital Ships), if yes, then at mineral build cost of the capital components? - What mechanism will be used for re-selling shares on the market (Trusted Broker). Will BIG take a fee from Brokering share sales to 3rd parties? - Will dividends be issued using the in-game share mechanism, or manual transfer? - When will the first loans be offered? - Managing the wallet on weekly interest rates is going to be a challenge. Seeing the web site would greatly improve my confidence as investor. When can we see it?
All shares Sold
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Karunel
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Posted - 2006.01.29 12:50:00 -
[60]
Hmm interesting stuff, you seem to be doing too much stuff at once nowadays...
Anyway, good luck \o/
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