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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Mug Costanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.10.21 20:16:00 -
[271] - Quote
Het Silenius wrote:Mug Costanza wrote:CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. Let me help you out here. In the US, it is permitted. Please try and stop it, you will be laughed at in court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraints_on_alienation ETCs aren't real property.
Good point actually but that won't stop them from being laughed at. |
Mug Costanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.10.21 20:38:00 -
[272] - Quote
Mug Costanza wrote:Het Silenius wrote:Mug Costanza wrote:CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. Let me help you out here. In the US, it is permitted. Please try and stop it, you will be laughed at in court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraints_on_alienation ETCs aren't real property. Good point actually but that won't stop them from being laughed at.
Researching more into this issue. It seems that there are companies that do try and restrict their resale, but they have included sections in their terms that states that this is void in jurisdictions where it is not legal to restrict that resale.
So at best CCP will only be able to enforce that policy in jurisdictions where they can enact terms on the reselling of the cards.
And I now take it back, I doubt they will get laughed at seeing as how convoluted this subject is. Good luck enforcing your policy, though, CCP. |
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
89
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:33:00 -
[273] - Quote
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
... and how one gets on their favoured list so that the rules no longer apply.
I think the recipe for that is quite nicely outlined by this quote:
Quote:If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
Now just replace the terms "state" and "lie" with "CCP" and "RMT" whilst adjusting the rest of the wording around it, it fits quite accurately. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2742
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:04:00 -
[274] - Quote
There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced.
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Crystafina
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:22:00 -
[275] - Quote
And I guess THIS (Just added today from Blink's thread in this forum) answers the favoritism question quite nicely.
So new laws of forums are:
1. Thou shalt not discuss Somer in anything other than sparklingly shiny ways. (Because we may have screwed up here but our EULA and TOS have gone for a drink together to sort it out and e'll let you know what they come up with)
2. Thou shalt not discuss CCP in anything other than uber-shiney ways. (We are, after all, CCP)
3. Thou shalt not discuss the actions at the heart of the matter (Let's call it TMR) because it might add weight to any argument or violate the 1st two laws.
4. If all else fails to stop 1 thru 3, or we REALLY don't want to answer the question, stick the ISD on them. They don't work for CCP (officially) but thank goodness we gave them thread riot control methods that we can use them and then claim clean hands on. |
Frying Doom
2763
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:27:00 -
[276] - Quote
Gogela wrote:There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced. Well depending on the jurisdiction and if you had unpaid or even unused plex time that they failed to reimburse. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2743
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:30:00 -
[277] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Gogela wrote:There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced. Well depending on the jurisdiction and if you had unpaid or even unused plex time that they failed to reimburse. I don't claim to know much about laws outside of the US, but there's no jurisdiction in the US where it's illegal in any way shape or form. If I got 20 PLEX and put them in my hanger and CCP shut down the servers, I don't think they would have to reimburse me either. I mean I would hope they would anyway... but I know for certain they are not legally obligated to. International commerce is a federal matter, so the US is one big conformal jurisdiction.
Edit: Just remembered CCP Atlanta... that would muddy up the jurisdiction thing. They are still a foreign held company though, so federal law would of course apply, but I'm not sure how interstate commerce laws work or how they apply in that situation. I can say though that the federal president overrides anything else (except for marajuana laws in my state ) but any judge is going to look at the second life cases and rule based on that.
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Frying Doom
2764
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:51:00 -
[278] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Gogela wrote:There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced. Well depending on the jurisdiction and if you had unpaid or even unused plex time that they failed to reimburse. I don't claim to know much about laws outside of the US, but there's no jurisdiction in the US where it's illegal in any way shape or form. If I got 20 PLEX and put them in my hanger and CCP shut down the servers, I don't think they would have to reimburse me either. I mean I would hope they would anyway... but I know for certain they are not legally obligated to. International commerce is a federal matter, so the US is one big conformal jurisdiction. Edit: Just remembered CCP Atlanta... that would muddy up the jurisdiction thing. They are still a foreign held company though, so federal law would of course apply, but I'm not sure how interstate commerce laws work or how they apply in that situation. I can say though that the federal president overrides anything else (except for marajuana laws in my state ) but any judge is going to look at the second life cases and rule based on that. As to plex in a cargo hold I have no idea. As to game time I know that is very much, receiving money for goods and services not supplied. Now in some countries that will end up going to court with a summons to appear in court going to CCP. If CCP choose not to answer the summons, nothing internationally will be done. A bench warrant for failure to appear in court will be issued and a summary jugment that CCP owes the money will be given and nothing else will be done, until the CEO or a director enters that jurisdiction, where by the bench warrant will come into effect.
If CCP enter the court then it is up to the judge to decide if CCP owes the money. The funny loophole is that in some small claims courts it is illegal to use lawyers and CCPs directors or CEO would have to defend them selves.
But I digress.....Stop RMT!!!
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2567
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 00:16:00 -
[279] - Quote
I know we're all being upset about SOMER Blink, but let's not forget Evealopalous does the same thing, along with other services too (none I can call to mind right at this moment, though). This is not a question of "is Blink literally the devil" but one of in general what 3rd party sites should or should not be allowed to do.
"Rewarding" a player with "bonus" virtual currency that "might" be able to get redeemed for in-game stuff is a load of crock. Each blink credit or "GTC token" has a statistically determined average ISK value, and "awarding" them as bonuses for paying money is tantamount to selling ISK for said money.
Any transaction in which real life money leaves one party's hand, followed by a direct consequence of ISK/items entering that party's hand is RMT. Any continuing silent approval of this behavior by CCP spits on the player base by signifying that RMT is okay... so long as you line CCP's pockets with GTC cash. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
483
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Posted - 2013.10.22 00:18:00 -
[280] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The rules: 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category. ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2746
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Posted - 2013.10.22 01:16:00 -
[281] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: As to plex in a cargo hold I have no idea. As to game time I know that is very much, receiving money for goods and services not supplied. Now in some countries that will end up going to court with a summons to appear in court going to CCP. If CCP choose not to answer the summons, nothing internationally will be done. A bench warrant for failure to appear in court will be issued and a summary jugment that CCP owes the money will be given and nothing else will be done, until the CEO or a director enters that jurisdiction, where by the bench warrant will come into effect.
If CCP enter the court then it is up to the judge to decide if CCP owes the money. The funny loophole is that in some small claims courts it is illegal to use lawyers and CCPs directors or CEO would have to defend them selves.
But I digress.....Stop RMT!!!
Well... that again depends on your country then. In the US contracts are binding... and when we created an account we agreed to this:
TOS wrote: 24. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userGÇÖs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
25. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT BY CCP OR ONE OF ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVES MAY RESULT FROM FAILURE TO ABIDE BY THESE RULES. SUCH TERMINATION WILL NOT ENTITLE YOU TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES PAID BY YOU FOR THE USE OF THE EVE ONLINE CLIENT, SERVERS OR WEB SITE. YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED GAME TIME REMAINING AT THE TIME OF TERMINATION.
Those would be binding here. That's the deal. Give money to CCP, and it's gone.
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Frying Doom
2766
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:44:00 -
[282] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote: As to plex in a cargo hold I have no idea. As to game time I know that is very much, receiving money for goods and services not supplied. Now in some countries that will end up going to court with a summons to appear in court going to CCP. If CCP choose not to answer the summons, nothing internationally will be done. A bench warrant for failure to appear in court will be issued and a summary jugment that CCP owes the money will be given and nothing else will be done, until the CEO or a director enters that jurisdiction, where by the bench warrant will come into effect.
If CCP enter the court then it is up to the judge to decide if CCP owes the money. The funny loophole is that in some small claims courts it is illegal to use lawyers and CCPs directors or CEO would have to defend them selves.
But I digress.....Stop RMT!!!
Well... that again depends on your country then. In the US contracts are binding... and when we created an account we agreed to this: TOS wrote: 24. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userGÇÖs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
25. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT BY CCP OR ONE OF ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVES MAY RESULT FROM FAILURE TO ABIDE BY THESE RULES. SUCH TERMINATION WILL NOT ENTITLE YOU TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES PAID BY YOU FOR THE USE OF THE EVE ONLINE CLIENT, SERVERS OR WEB SITE. YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED GAME TIME REMAINING AT THE TIME OF TERMINATION.
Those would be binding here. That's the deal. Give money to CCP, and it's gone. As you will see on a lot of warranty documents and other documents, something similar to this altered for each country ' In the performance of all services to be provided hereunder, the company and Customer agree to comply with all applicable Federal, State and local laws and ordinances and all lawful orders, rules and regulations of any constituted authority.'
It is because what ever a company writes in service agreements, warranties or whatever they are completely void if they conflict with a countries laws. The laws come before a companies say so.
And it of course varies from country to country and even state by state as to what those laws and the courts interpretation of them are.
As I said, I digress....Down with RMT Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
273
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 03:51:00 -
[283] - Quote
The Greenmachine Greenmachine wrote:RIOT COUNT ME IN
REFUSE/RESIST - F*ck Sh*t Up
Chaos A.D. Tanks on the streets Confronting police Bleeding the plebs Raging crowd Burning cars Bloodshed starts Who'll be alive?!
Chaos A.D. Army in siege Total alarm I'm sick of this Inside the state War is created No man's land What's this sh*t?!
Refuse/Resist Refuse
Chaos A.D. Disorder unleashed Starting to burn Starting to lynch Silence means death Stand on your feet Inner fear Your worst enemy
Refuse/Resist Refuse/Resist |
Malkon Gevitz
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 04:33:00 -
[284] - Quote
Does this at least mean we won't be seeing the same damn alliance panel presentation for a fourth year running? |
Frying Doom
2768
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 04:51:00 -
[285] - Quote
Malkon Gevitz wrote:Does this at least mean we won't be seeing the same damn alliance panel presentation for a fourth year running? After a certain persons drunk escapades I find it difficult to believe we have had the same alliance panel every year.
But I get what you mean. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2751
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 06:57:00 -
[286] - Quote
Durka.
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Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
93
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 08:28:00 -
[287] - Quote
CCP has no choice, they have to stop the GTC+XXXvirtualcredits selling via affilates and/or wholesales. Sure they can ban single players here and there who did their own Lottery but not for long because this will get public real fast and then they have to ban all Lotteries or let single players do it too. There is nothing in between.
I'm counting my ISK coversion rate right now and a lot of others did/will do the same. |
Gallente Citizen 827473904528
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 10:19:00 -
[288] - Quote
So what's happening with this?
done?
I love what people are doing.
I do love what people are doing and totally understand what they're getting at but if CCP want to stop it they can.
So what's happening?
Is there any official word yet? |
Garia666
CyberShield Inc C0VEN
30
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 10:53:00 -
[289] - Quote
so please update when you have the site where we can buy the gtc from.. smart effort btw.. as ccp most likely dont like this kind of exploit they will probably lock and delete this post.
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Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:20:00 -
[290] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:]Please explain why a) it wasn't fair. One person 'bought' 2500 tickets and as such had a 2500/2501 chance of winning. The other person bought one ticket and had a 1/2501 chance if winning. If you buy more tickets to a raffle or lottery, you have more chance of winning. Please clarify why it wasn't fair - would love to hear it. Why bother doing 2500/2501? Just do 1/2 and always make #1 win, CCP have no way to prove it wasn't random in the same way they don't with Sommer. Always buy ticket #2 with an alt. Customer gets all the ISK they paid for no risk. Don't bother with true random selection when there is no need to.
Hang on... Your idea of making it "fair", is to rig the results?
Yeah. Great logic. |
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Frying Doom
2778
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:35:00 -
[291] - Quote
Reizak StormFury wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:]Please explain why a) it wasn't fair. One person 'bought' 2500 tickets and as such had a 2500/2501 chance of winning. The other person bought one ticket and had a 1/2501 chance if winning. If you buy more tickets to a raffle or lottery, you have more chance of winning. Please clarify why it wasn't fair - would love to hear it. Why bother doing 2500/2501? Just do 1/2 and always make #1 win, CCP have no way to prove it wasn't random in the same way they don't with Sommer. Always buy ticket #2 with an alt. Customer gets all the ISK they paid for no risk. Don't bother with true random selection when there is no need to. Hang on... Your idea of making it "fair", is to rig the results? Yeah. Great logic. Maybe he wants a job with CCP Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:49:00 -
[292] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As you will see on a lot of warranty documents and other documents, something similar to this altered for each country ' In the performance of all services to be provided hereunder, the company and Customer agree to comply with all applicable Federal, State and local laws and ordinances and all lawful orders, rules and regulations of any constituted authority.'
It is because what ever a company writes in service agreements, warranties or whatever they are completely void if they conflict with a countries laws. The laws come before a companies say so.
And it of course varies from country to country and even state by state as to what those laws and the courts interpretation of them are.
As I said, I digress....Down with RMT
This.
Contracts (and by extension, companies) CANNOT re-write law. End of.
If you sign a contract that allows me to end your life, but you're also living in a country where euthanasia is illegal, that contract would be meaningless.
If contracts were the be all and end all, you'd effectively have to start dealing with legalised murder, as well as a whole lot of other nasty things.
If the servers shutdown, and you had a substantial amount of subscription time, then CCP could be liable for a civil suit. This would be especially true if you made a considerable investment shortly before the servers went down, as it could be viewed as a scam. But again, that would be down to a court to decide, being a civil case. |
Shai 'Hulud
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 13:02:00 -
[293] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:CCP has no choice, they have to stop the GTC+XXXvirtualcredits selling via affilates and/or wholesales. Sure they can ban single players here and there who did their own Lottery but not for long because this will get public real fast and then they have to ban all Lotteries or let single players do it too. There is nothing in between.
I'm counting my ISK conversion rate right now and a lot of others did/will do the same. - SOMER engages in RMT: CCP gives them 5+ trillion ISK and praises them for community service. - Anyone else mentions they might want to try what SOMER is currently doing: Almost instantly threatened with a permanent ban.
Every day that passes without a decision is another day that CCP allows SOMER to get away with RMT that others (myself included) have been threatened with permanent bans for simply mentioning (I have never RMTed off anything).
There is no gray area here, it's clear favoritism. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |
Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 13:31:00 -
[294] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote:Jori McKie wrote:CCP has no choice, they have to stop the GTC+XXXvirtualcredits selling via affilates and/or wholesales. Sure they can ban single players here and there who did their own Lottery but not for long because this will get public real fast and then they have to ban all Lotteries or let single players do it too. There is nothing in between.
I'm counting my ISK conversion rate right now and a lot of others did/will do the same. - SOMER engages in RMT: CCP gives them 5+ trillion ISK and praises them for community service. - Anyone else mentions they might want to try what SOMER is currently doing: Almost instantly threatened with a permanent ban. Every day that passes without a decision is another day that CCP allows SOMER to get away with RMT that others (myself included) have been threatened with permanent bans for simply mentioning (I have never RMTed off anything). There is no gray area here, it's clear favoritism.
Yep.
I don't think I'll be renewing any of my subs next month. Love EVE, but I don't want to support a company that is:
- So unresponsive to customer concerns with any official statements as to what is and isn't allowed. I don't think that anyone has any delusions that what's going on here is 100% RMT. A well known company is making private, real world profit, and in return handing out ISK as an incentive to use their services over their competitors. CCP have yet to address this for nearly a week. That's simply unacceptable.
- Shows blatant favoritism to third party businesses, who are clearly in violation of the EULA and terms of service, but instead are rewarded for these violations. Anyone who attempts to follow the same business model is immediately threatened, whilst again, no official word is given in regards to how the original (and continual) perpetrators are going to be punished (yeah, right).
- Above all else, seems to have such intense greed for the profits from GTCs it procures through SOMER's business that it is willing to infuriate, alienate and threaten a large portion of its playerbase.
That's before you get into the under-the-table deals that go on privately between the exclusive members of this boys club syndicate (3,000,000,000,000 ISK worth of ships anyone?).
Everyday I read something more and more that puts me off supporting these guys (CCP). I wasn't bothered when I heard about the ships being handed out, as I know that SOMER does do a fair amount of good (sponsoring events, etc). I thought they deserved it. But, to make private, financial, real world gains, that clearly infringe on CCP's own policies, and have CCP ENDORSE them? Not only endorse SOMER, but then have people who are offering something which is exactly the same, be threatened?
No. That's just plain wrong. That's double standards on steroids. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
496
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 13:45:00 -
[295] - Quote
Well it looks like this is ok? I have a character to "raffle" for a cut of the money if any GTC sellers are interested. |
Obunagawe
241
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 20:51:00 -
[296] - Quote
ngaly wrote:IGÇÖm really hoping more people will do what you are doing. If enough people do it CCP will be forced to acknowledge that they actually tolerated RMT for more than a year already. Eventually they will have to start preventing lottery websites from using this GÇ£trickGÇ¥.
They did. Their threads are locked in this forum. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2754
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 21:15:00 -
[297] - Quote
Reizak StormFury wrote: Contracts (and by extension, companies) CANNOT re-write law. End of.
If you sign a contract that allows me to end your life, but you're also living in a country where euthanasia is illegal, that contract would be meaningless.
If contracts were the be all and end all, you'd effectively have to start dealing with legalised murder, as well as a whole lot of other nasty things.
If the servers shutdown, and you had a substantial amount of subscription time, then CCP could be liable for a civil suit. This would be especially true if you made a considerable investment shortly before the servers went down, as it could be viewed as a scam. But again, that would be down to a court to decide, being a civil case.
You can wave a lot of rights in contracts... they bind you and compel you to some action you wouldn't otherwise be bound or obligated to do. NDA's, for instance, limit your freedom of speech. It can get complex. Breaching a contract carries penalties... but not generally criminal. If a line item of a contract is considered to be unlawful, a judge will generally strike just that line, adjust it, but leave the rest of the contract intact. No you can't sign a contract (and have it held up in court) with a death penalty clause, but you can sign one that carries a monetary penalty. You can waive your right to pursue civil or certain criminal cases. You can waive property rights. Your murder analogy is way over the top and not comparable to this situation. I can tell you have never entered into a business contract before and have no idea what you are talking about. Google "exclusion clause".
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Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
17
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Posted - 2013.10.23 15:45:00 -
[298] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Reizak StormFury wrote: Contracts (and by extension, companies) CANNOT re-write law. End of.
If you sign a contract that allows me to end your life, but you're also living in a country where euthanasia is illegal, that contract would be meaningless.
If contracts were the be all and end all, you'd effectively have to start dealing with legalised murder, as well as a whole lot of other nasty things.
If the servers shutdown, and you had a substantial amount of subscription time, then CCP could be liable for a civil suit. This would be especially true if you made a considerable investment shortly before the servers went down, as it could be viewed as a scam. But again, that would be down to a court to decide, being a civil case.
You can wave a lot of rights in contracts... they bind you and compel you to some action you wouldn't otherwise be bound or obligated to do. NDA's, for instance, limit your freedom of speech. It can get complex. Breaching a contract carries penalties... but not generally criminal. If a line item of a contract is considered to be unlawful, a judge will generally strike just that line, adjust it, but leave the rest of the contract intact. No you can't sign a contract (and have it held up in court) with a death penalty clause, but you can sign one that carries a monetary penalty. You can waive your right to pursue civil or certain criminal cases. You can waive property rights. Your murder analogy is way over the top and not comparable to this situation. I can tell you have never entered into a business contract before and have no idea what you are talking about. Google "exclusion clause".
You're confusing rights and laws here.
In a NDA, you have the right to free speech. That is your right to waive, should you see fit.
When a company sells you something, that company does so within the confines of the law. A citizen doesn't have the ability to change that law because they want to. You are unable to waive it.
The example I gave may be extreme, but it is the case for any act of criminality that breaches the law of the constituency in question.
I could have just as easily used an example of writing a contract that allows you to steal an apple from me.
I can choose not to press charges, but you'd be unable to hold up a piece of paper in a courtroom which meant I'd be unable to press charges.
I'll state again. Citizens (and by extension, companies) cannot change the law. You can waive rights, including your right to press charges (provided the matter involved yourself, and only youself), but if a felony is committed, you can absolutely go the whole nine-yards with it in a courtroom, regardless of what a piece of paper says.
Also, I did two years of an LLB at King's College London, before I had to stop for health concerns.
Additionally, there are pieces of legislation in many countries that are there to prevent outrageous exclusion clauses (which again, can only waive rights).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Contract_Terms_Act_1977 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Terms_in_Consumer_Contracts_Regulations_1999
Are two that affect British consumers (of which I am one).
And just to clarify, no one here has entered into a business contract. We've signed up to a consumer licensing agreement. Very different things. |
Farelle
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
0
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Posted - 2013.10.26 14:47:00 -
[299] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter.
This is a precise copy of SOMER Blink, so are you now stating that SOMER do break the EULA?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M16Lkv6XuNU/UmvJU3ZMxhI/AAAAAAAAAMI/C80TqeU4lY0/s320/RMT.jpg |
Ra Jackson
the unified SCUM.
256
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Posted - 2013.10.26 15:07:00 -
[300] - Quote
Where does he say that he is quitting? If this works I will cash out my highest SP characters too because they just get boring over time. |
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