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YES YOU CAN HAVE MY STUFF / DNSBLACK LOOKING FOR GTC SELLER

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Xander Phoena Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement 216	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:12:00 - [181] - Quote DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard. Far as I can see, DNSBlack has done nothing Somer don't do when they give 'Somer credits' out with GTC sales. CCP's only options are to either go after DNSBlack and Somer or allow both to happen. Sophie's Choice if ever there was one. Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall of CCP HQ in Reykjavik right around now. www.crossingzebras.com
Rain6638 Team Evil 1028	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:16:00 - [182] - Quote Money Makin Mitch wrote: Rain6638 wrote: while everyone is cheering for OP, has anyone realized this is one step closer to CCP selling items directly for money? it would be an extension of OP's logic yes, we realize that. if they would just outright say that's they are going to do or allow others to do, it will make it a whole lot easier to either unsub my accounts or create my own site/service. i doubt that, because it would've been mentioned already? what if CCP cut the red tape for everyone including themselves, and established a character cash-out and sale system? you can cash out according to an sp appraisal algorithm, and they sell your character for money at a slightly higher rate... assets and all, just sell the character "in place" [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4774	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:17:00 - [183] - Quote Dad, you said I could watch TV if I did the dishes. Well I threatened my little sister into doing them so technically I got them done. What do you mean I'm now grounded from the TV for a month? But you said... It's funny how relying on loopholes to get what you want can back fire in your face when dealing with the folks who create the rules to begin with. I wouldn't be surprised if a temporary ban was put in place on a certain account for a few months while this is "investigated". To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
PotatoOverdose SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 398	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:23:00 - [184] - Quote So, If GTC's can't be sold for cash + Black credits, why can they be sold for cash + Blink credits. This is very confusing...
Dani Lizardov Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad. 28	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:28:00 - [185] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Dad, you said I could watch TV if I did the dishes. Well I threatened my little sister into doing them so technically I got them done. What do you mean I'm now grounded from the TV for a month? But you said... It's funny how relying on loopholes to get what you want can back fire in your face when dealing with the folks who create the rules to begin with. I wouldn't be surprised if a temporary ban was put in place on a certain account for a few months while this is "investigated". We all wait here to see that taking place! No one is actually hopping for RMT to be legalized in this game. I personally enjoy how CCP struggle to decide who the bad kid / kids are and how to punish them. On the other hand i really want them to be punished for that.
Theng Hofses Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 21	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:30:00 - [186] - Quote Here is what is really at stake for CCP: If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. As CCP generates game currency that liability becomes larger and larger (ratting rewards, etc) The only way to recognize that on their financial statements is by accounting for it as either a cost or an impairment which would reduce their profitability. All players would become unsecured creditors of CCP. The status as a unsecured creditor and the requirement to carry it as a liability would probably continue even if the player stops his subscription. The only way out of that would be to irrevocably confiscate all isk and assets the moment your subscription lapses. This is a customer service nightmare to say the least. In addition, they would probably have to register at least as a money agent, possibly even as a bank as they are adding to the money supply due to the fungible nature of their game currency. Addressing this would completely disrupt the game economy at best, make CCP unprofitable at worst. This is a very bad outcome for everyone involved. It is imperative for CCP to make sure that their game currency has no real world value.
PotatoOverdose SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 400	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:33:00 - [187] - Quote Dani Lizardov wrote: I personally enjoy how CCP struggle to decide who the bad kid / kids are and how to punish them. The problem is CCP really likes one of the bad kids (Somer) but doesn't like some of the other bad kids, like Black and Shai. But apparently, its ok for Somer to give out ships for Somer credits, but it isn't ok for Shai to give out ships for Shai credits. This really confuses me though...
Charlith Kindred Fluffles Inc. xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 0	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:35:00 - [188] - Quote Congratulations on the successful GTC sales. How can CCP ban DNSBLACK? They have, after all, publicly endorsed Somer who has been doing this for however long. This makes me want to re-sub my main account and cash out myself.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5352	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:40:00 - [189] - Quote Theng Hofses wrote: Here is what is really at stake for CCP: If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. uh what no that would only be the case if CCP was the one who would pay you $$ for isk
Theng Hofses Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 21	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:57:00 - [190] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Theng Hofses wrote: Here is what is really at stake for CCP: If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. uh what no that would only be the case if CCP was the one who would pay you $$ for isk The authorized PLEX reseller is an agent of CCP. You can make the argument that by allowing the piggy backing of other in-game value they willingly enabled the fungibility. Funny enough, I found this one: http://www.pillsburylaw.com/siteFiles/Media/files/Make%20Sure%20Your%20Virtual%20Currency%20Doesn't%20Enter%20Illegal%20Gambling%20Territory(1).pdf
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 2723	Posted - 2013.10.18 19:58:00 - [191] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Theng Hofses wrote: Here is what is really at stake for CCP: If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. uh what no that would only be the case if CCP was the one who would pay you $$ for isk I have to agree with Weaselior. You are way off on that. CCP already pays tax on the money they make selling GTCs, for example. The stock of GTCs has no value, though. ISK is already traded for real money and thus has value according to your statement... but you don't know how the tax laws apply here, clearly. You made that all up. If you could trade ISK for RL cash, the person sending you the money might get charged a sales tax or something. The person receiving the RL money would have to report that money as earned income. The ISK itself is virtual. It's not taxed. No country has laws that tax virtual items or play money. cockandballs. Every. Time. EvE Spaceship Guide Works in game only and not updated often
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5354	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:06:00 - [192] - Quote Theng Hofses wrote: The authorized PLEX reseller is an agent of CCP. You can make the argument that by allowing the piggy backing of other in-game value they willingly enabled the fungibility. Funny enough, I found this one: http://www.pillsburylaw.com/siteFiles/Media/files/Make%20Sure%20Your%20Virtual%20Currency%20Doesn't%20Enter%20Illegal%20Gambling%20Territory(1).pdf the things you are saying make zero sense ccp has to account for things like plex on their balance sheet. that's because they've contracted to redeem plex for game time, they are basically unused gift cards. each plex in existence is a promise to provide the holder with 30d of game time and is a liability let's say ccp allows me to sell isk to you if I want and does not ban people for these sorts of transactions. does isk need to go on CCP's balance sheet? no, of course not: the amount of isk in existence is irrelevant to ccp's bottom line. i can do nothing with my isk that affects ccp's bottom line. they don't sell the isk, they don't buy the isk, nothing with isk touches ccp's bottom line now, if they allowed free exchange between isk and $$ then yeah they land in all sorts of legal issues which are bad news. I'm not suggesting they do that, RMT would be bad news. but the issues are not accounting issues. even the issues you raised before about what happens if you unsub are easily dealt with by contract (the eula).
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 2724	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:13:00 - [193] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Dani Lizardov wrote: I personally enjoy how CCP struggle to decide who the bad kid / kids are and how to punish them. The problem is CCP really likes one of the bad kids (Somer) but doesn't like some of the other bad kids, like Black and Shai. But apparently, its ok for Somer to give out ships for Somer credits, but it isn't ok for Shai to give out ships for Shai credits. Theng Hofses wrote: Here is what is really at stake for CCP: stuff So why is it ok for Somer to do this thing, and not Shai 'Hulud. They're literally doing the exact same thing. This really confuses me ... It does seem unfair doesn't it? I still think there are only ~~two~~ four options for CCP. They can re-classify SOMER as a dec/CCP employee/whatever, because right now he is. In doing this his account would have the same restrictions applied to it the devs have. They legalize RMT... or at least let this raffle BS thing keep going on. They can Ban SOMER and everyone doing this. They can just tell everyone F off and ban people selective based on whether or not they like that player, as seems to be the status quo. I don't care with regards to the top 3... pick any one. Don't care. I just want to see a level playing field. If it's not.. I don't see the point of EvE. It goes from being a game to being a frustrating hassle. cockandballs. Every. Time. EvE Spaceship Guide Works in game only and not updated often
Powers Sa 693	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:17:00 - [194] - Quote Xander Phoena wrote: DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard. Far as I can see, DNSBlack has done nothing Somer don't do when they give 'Somer credits' out with GTC sales. CCP's only options are to either go after DNSBlack and Somer or allow both to happen. Sophie's Choice if ever there was one. Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall of CCP HQ in Reykjavik right around now. Everytime someone threatens to quit, ccp can just link them to a sanctioned cashout gtc broker. lol
Xander Phoena Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement 221	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:19:00 - [195] - Quote The key thing to remember here is Somer are NOT an authorised GTC reseller. They sell GTCs through Markee and Markee pays Somer a commission. We don't know what % they make but it is likely to be around 5%. So Somer make a couple of bucks on each GTC sale without actually selling the GTCs themselves. That $ figure - whatever it is - is exchanged with the player for 'x' amount of Somer blink credit. CCP knows this happens and this must be ok - hell, CCP gave Somer a fortune in gifts to auction off after all. So Somer is exchanging $$ for Somer credits without being a reseller. DNSBlack has exchanged $$ for Black credits without being a reseller. I've got that all right, yes? www.crossingzebras.com
Darius JOHNSON GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 107	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:19:00 - [196] - Quote Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled brats.
DarkDecay Real money traders 70	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:20:00 - [197] - Quote Xander Phoena wrote: DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard. DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard.
Money Makin Mitch Paid in Full 180	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:24:00 - [198] - Quote Darius JOHNSON wrote: Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY
DarkDecay Real money traders 72	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:27:00 - [199] - Quote Xander Phoena wrote: So Somer is exchanging $$ for Somer credits without being a reseller. DNSBlack has exchanged $$ for Black credits without being a reseller. I've got that all right, yes? He did the same as me and used an official reseller to get the buyer his GTC. We both used the somer defence of raffle and made up currency. Where we differed was that he never seemed to ask for a massive $2500 for his GTC's and someone just offered it, while I set an actual price for the GTC of $105 instead of $35 that people could accept for a 'free' plex pack. This could be the key point? (will be posting something similar in main thread too)
Phoenix Jones Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 175	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:28:00 - [200] - Quote This happens, there's no point in not selling everything. There is now a perfectly legal way for every organization we've ever yelled at for allegedly doing RMT.. to now actually start doing RMT and laughing at CCP's face, the communities face, etc. All Nullsec would basically turn into "Get out your ruining my actual cash" (well also wormholes, lowsec and highsec). Lets see if CCP has completely given completely up. Then again, this would be putting a face on RMT "and actually defining it for both CCP, the community, and the world. I see Goons, the legions, all the botters, all the people who ever contemplated selling stuff, to magically come up with 1000 different "raffles" and selling everything they have in storage. Character quitting, sell it Extra account, sell it. This is not a good place for CCP. Stabbers are totally broken http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
Darius JOHNSON GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 107	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:29:00 - [201] - Quote Money Makin Mitch wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.
Shai 'Hulud 131	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:34:00 - [202] - Quote I just want to know wtf is so wrong with "shai tickets" Oh right ... the word SOMER is not mentioned in the name. I get it now. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box.
Kazanir Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation 463	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:38:00 - [203] - Quote Darius JOHNSON wrote: Money Makin Mitch wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years?
PotatoOverdose SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 403	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:40:00 - [204] - Quote Darius JOHNSON wrote: The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP. When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened. Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish?
Darius JOHNSON GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 107	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:45:00 - [205] - Quote Kazanir wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: Money Makin Mitch wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years? You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it.
Darius JOHNSON GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 107	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:46:00 - [206] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP. When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened. Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish? I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest
Moira Ayindi Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:51:00 - [207] - Quote Because Somer A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it? I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 92	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:52:00 - [208] - Quote Darius JOHNSON wrote: Kazanir wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: Money Makin Mitch wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years? You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it. I mean as the former head of security, who took several public actions to curb botting and RMT I could see where your old job description would not have covered dismantling a scheme to convert real life money into isk but I have never worked at CCP nor am I familiar with their orgchart so you can have a gimmie on this one This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 2728	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:54:00 - [209] - Quote Moira Ayindi wrote: Because Somer A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it? I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales. It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP. cockandballs. Every. Time. EvE Spaceship Guide Works in game only and not updated often
Money Makin Mitch Paid in Full 181	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:55:00 - [210] - Quote Darius JOHNSON wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Darius JOHNSON wrote: The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP. When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened. Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish? I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest eve players are just particularly bad i haven't seen much or any of that happen yet. unless ''calling for people's jobs'' means threatening to unsub if they **** in the sandbox. which is our legitimate right as customers to do.

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