Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
262
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. I am looking for a 3rd party wholesale GTC seller.
2. I would like to discuss the terms on splitting your percentage with me to raffle off some of in game assets.
3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
4. 1 Black credit for the raffle will be given out for every GTC bought on your site. You can hold the raffle once 1000 GTC have been sold. If players would like to buy a ticket in game it will cost 1 plex and you can have them contract it to you.
5. This practice has been ok and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin. |

The Greenmachine Greenmachine
Green's Bicycle Shop
55
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
RIOT COUNT ME IN |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
2138
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you send me ISK I'll send you 3x its value in GTCs. Guaranteed. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
262
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
wow I have 2 offer all ready sent to me. |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
3080
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
I can see that the words in the OP are actual English words, but the way you string them together makes no sense at all.
Please edit for clarity.
Mr Epeen  There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
Cant raffle characters anymore.
Good plan though! |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
133
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over. Cant raffle characters anymore. Good plan though! he isn't raffling his character
he's raffling tickets to a chance at winning his character |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:DarkDecay wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over. Cant raffle characters anymore. Good plan though! he isn't raffling his character he's raffling tickets to a chance at winning his character
You mean...
...he is using the Chewbacca, er, Somer defence?
|

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
265
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
I just have to transfer the character according to CCP character transfer rules. Unless those have changed and they have cause CCP is not following there own EULA  |

destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Just donate all your assets to the eve lottery sites, im sure they'd be happy, as far as the charecter itself just unsub it till you get the erge to play again. |
|

Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
757
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
IBTL and wut?
I'm sure there is a flaw in your plan, and CCP will point it out shortly....
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
270
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am hoping CCP does point out my flaws.  |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
138
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:IBTL and wut? I'm sure there is a flaw in your plan, and CCP will point it out shortly.... that's kinda the whole point |

Jake Rivers
Senex Legio Gryphon League
183
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
If CCP says you can't do this, can I have all your stuff? Senex Legio |

Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
1313
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
lol Support my (possibly dumb) Ideas!! Worm Rebalance!!! |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4169
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jake Rivers wrote:If CCP says you can't do this, can I have all your stuff?
No, but you can have all of Somer's stuff.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Jake Rivers
Senex Legio Gryphon League
183
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Oh, and I just have to say;
Show us on the DOLL where CCP touched you! Senex Legio |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6291
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am a trusted third party for stuff like this.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Omega Crendraven
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Can I have a part of your stuff? Some isk and assets would be very helpful. NOPE.avi
|

ngaly
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
IGÇÖm really hoping more people will do what you are doing. If enough people do it CCP will be forced to acknowledge that they actually tolerated RMT for more than a year already. Eventually they will have to start preventing lottery websites from using this GÇ£trickGÇ¥. |
|

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2503
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote: Unless those have changed and CCP is not enforcing their own EULA heh CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
ngaly wrote:IGÇÖm really hoping more people will do what you are doing. If enough people do it CCP will be forced to acknowledge that they actually tolerated RMT for more than a year already. Eventually they will have to start preventing lottery websites from using this GÇ£trickGÇ¥.
I will be doing it too if CCP ever tell me how to get it started.
Real world laws will mean it wont be a scam... |

DNSBlacks Arazu
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you raffle off your character, what do I do with this awesome alt I created in your honor? |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2504
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
DNSBlacks Arazu wrote:If you raffle off your character, what do I do with this awesome alt I created in your honor?
Raffle it? CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

DNSBlacks Arazu
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:DNSBlacks Arazu wrote:If you raffle off your character, what do I do with this awesome alt I created in your honor? Raffle it?
Great idea! I think I will.
|

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
380
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
ngaly wrote:IGÇÖm really hoping more people will do what you are doing. If enough people do it CCP will be forced to acknowledge that they actually tolerated RMT for more than a year already. Eventually they will have to start preventing lottery websites from using this GÇ£trickGÇ¥. The thing is CCP gets a direct cut from this type of RMT, and so it's "ok."
For those that don't understand, here's the actual transaction:
(A) Vendor acquires GTC's in bulk from CCP at a reduced rate --> CCP gets $$ (B) Players Purchase 1000 GTC's from Vendor at a markup --> Vendor gets $$ (C) Individual offers character for raffle from vendor --> Individual gets a cut of Vendor's $$ (D) Players acquire GTC's (E) Players also get a chance to win individual's character.
(A) --> (B) --> (D) is the standard GTC retail process, and has been available for over a decade (I think).
Item (C) is where the RMT happens when 'Individual' gets paid by vendor in $$ for in game assets (the definition of RMT). Item (E) is the incentive for Item (C) to work.
TBH I could see this working for players wanting to make real $$ off high value items such as supers, titans, and various unique ships. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
279
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:ngaly wrote:IGÇÖm really hoping more people will do what you are doing. If enough people do it CCP will be forced to acknowledge that they actually tolerated RMT for more than a year already. Eventually they will have to start preventing lottery websites from using this GÇ£trickGÇ¥. The thing is CCP gets a direct cut from this type of RMT, and so it's "ok." For those that don't understand, here's the actual transaction:(A) Vendor acquires GTC's in bulk from CCP at a reduced rate --> CCP gets $$ (B) Players Purchase 1000 GTC's from Vendor at a markup --> Vendor gets $$ (C) Individual offers character for raffle from vendor --> Individual gets a cut of Vendor's $$ (D) Players acquire GTC's (E) Players also get a chance to win individual's character. (A) --> (B) --> (D) is the standard GTC retail process, and has been available for over a decade (I think). Item (C) is where the RMT happens when 'Individual' gets paid by vendor in $$ for in game assets (the definition of RMT). Item (E) is the incentive for Item (C) to work.
TBH I could see this working for players wanting to make real $$ off high value items such as supers, titans, and various unique ships.
Still don't get it do you I guess reading the EULA was just to long of a read. |

Dalmont Delantee
Rim Worlds Republic SpaceMonkey's Alliance
176
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:1. I am looking for a 3rd party wholesale GTC seller.
2. I would like to discuss the terms on splitting your profit with me to raffle off some of my in game assets.
3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
4. 1 Black credit for the raffle will be given out for every GTC bought on your site. You can hold the raffle once 1000 GTC have been sold. If players would like to buy a ticket in game it will cost 1 plex and you can have them contract it to you.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin.
Simpler way biomass - you wont' be missed |

Naiobi
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ive been thinking about this for a long time, but didnt have the balls or effort to put this in motion.
You got my epeen credits for doing this DNS! Its broken and unfair. I hope you will change something with this. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
279
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dalmont Delantee wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:1. I am looking for a 3rd party wholesale GTC seller.
2. I would like to discuss the terms on splitting your profit with me to raffle off some of my in game assets.
3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
4. 1 Black credit for the raffle will be given out for every GTC bought on your site. You can hold the raffle once 1000 GTC have been sold. If players would like to buy a ticket in game it will cost 1 plex and you can have them contract it to you.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin. Simpler way biomass - you wont' be missed
Not weather I will be missed but I will make some money and if this works out well I have other I will sell |
|

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
381
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
It'll be interesting to see whether this will actually work. Could be witnessing the birth of "legit" RMT.  |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
280
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Holy shut the front door.
I may not even need a third Party.
1. I will buy GTC at full price and resell them with a 2 dollar mark up and a 1 Black credit.
2. After I sell 1000 GTC I will hold my own drawing and since CCP has no over site and I am 100 % creditable this will be fine
3. I am still willing to go the GTC seller route but this will also work. |

Cameron Freerunner
Long Jump.
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Hilarity to Ensue Black points CCP...
Cyno UP!
Bridge, bridge, bridge! |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
142
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dalmont Delantee wrote: Simpler way biomass - you wont' be missed
dude, just stop. seriously. step away from the keyboard. |

TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation The Cursed Few
108
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:1. I am looking for a 3rd party wholesale GTC seller.
2. I would like to discuss the terms on splitting your profit with me to raffle off some of my in game assets.
3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
4. 1 Black credit for the raffle will be given out for every GTC bought on your site. You can hold the raffle once 1000 GTC have been sold. If players would like to buy a ticket in game it will cost 1 plex and you can have them contract it to you.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin.
Yeah one problem with your 'game'. Markee Dragon, to whom you're obviously referring, isn't a wholesale GTC seller. He's a reseller and he buys his GTC's at a wholesale company (not a lot of which exist as far as I know).
But yeah, should be legal. If SOMER can do it so should everyone else. Will be fun seeing CCP's reaction if more of these things start popping up all over the place :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoavH8xbrPE |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1353
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
The other elephant in the room is if CCP has been condoning, or at least looking the other way, this kind of activity for over a year, what other activities that are even more shady have they been ignoring? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Frying Doom
2611
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Yeah one problem with your 'game'. Markee Dragon, to whom you're obviously referring, isn't a wholesale GTC seller. He's a reseller and he buys his GTC's at a wholesale company (not a lot of which exist as far as I know).
But yeah, should be legal. If SOMER can do it so should everyone else. Will be fun seeing CCP's reaction if more of these things start popping up all over the place :D The follow on from that is, does it have to involve GTC and CCP making a profit for it to be legit.
For example can I sell you a pen for say $10.00USD + P&H (Specially engraved pen, it has the words BIC on the side of it) and give you 1.2 billion pen credits to spend on lotteries on a web site.
Now on this website you can of course bid on other pens +p&h or if you choose you can take all of the pen lottery slots in a lottery and spend the 1.2 billion pen credits and convert that to isk-20%. So you receive 1 billion isk and a pen.
 Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Cameron Freerunner
Long Jump.
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:The other elephant in the room is if CCP has been condoning, or at least looking the other way, this kind of activity for over a year, what other activities that are even more shady have they been ignoring? Willful ignorance is the term you're looking for. You can't crack down on something you never find. Or ever look for. |

Naiobi
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:1. I am looking for a 3rd party wholesale GTC seller.
2. I would like to discuss the terms on splitting your profit with me to raffle off some of my in game assets.
3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
4. 1 Black credit for the raffle will be given out for every GTC bought on your site. You can hold the raffle once 1000 GTC have been sold. If players would like to buy a ticket in game it will cost 1 plex and you can have them contract it to you.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin. Yeah one problem with your 'game'. Markee Dragon, to whom you're obviously referring, isn't a wholesale GTC seller. He's a reseller and he buys his GTC's at a wholesale company (not a lot of which exist as far as I know). But yeah, should be legal. If SOMER can do it so should everyone else. Will be fun seeing CCP's reaction if more of these things start popping up all over the place :D
If this gets the proper back up from people who actually care, then its not a question of "if" but more a question of WHEN.
|

Achmed Abdullah Ayarash
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
The main flaw with your reasoning is that you assume that you know how thoroughly (or not) the site that you are (without mentioning by name) comparing your scheme with has been and are being audited by CCP and you also assume that what has been deemed OK in one specific case under circumstances we are not 100% aware of, will automatically be deemed OK in any other case where the circumstances are somewhat similar at least on the surface.
I'm not saying you're outright wrong, but you are definately not presenting a scenario that is certain to be a 100% match to the (unknown to most) chriteria that said site has met in order to get CCP approval for their methods of financing their website. |
|

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
287
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Achmed Abdullah Ayarash wrote:The main flaw with your reasoning is that you assume that you know how thoroughly (or not) the site that you are (without mentioning by name) comparing your scheme with has been and are being audited by CCP and you also assume that what has been deemed OK in one specific case under circumstances we are not 100% aware of, will automatically be deemed OK in any other case where the circumstances are somewhat similar at least on the surface.
I'm not saying you're outright wrong, but you are definately not presenting a scenario that is certain to be a 100% match to the (unknown to most) chriteria that said site has met in order to get CCP approval for their methods of financing their website.
Well guess what there has never been any critira like that posted or published. All I have to go off of is past practice.
Is DNSBlack Trusted ---- CCP answer YES
Is DNSBlack good to follow thru with his commitment to give the winner his Character ------ CCP answer we are no sure but we trust him. So lets let him do it and see if he follows thru
Will we make money off of GTC sales ----- CCP answer hell yes so who give a phuuuck if we look the other way on the eula for DNSBlack he has done a lot for the community. he got rid of alex for us didn't he????!!!!!! |

TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation The Cursed Few
108
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Achmed Abdullah Ayarash wrote:The main flaw with your reasoning is that you assume that you know how thoroughly (or not) the site that you are (without mentioning by name) comparing your scheme with has been and are being audited by CCP and you also assume that what has been deemed OK in one specific case under circumstances we are not 100% aware of, will automatically be deemed OK in any other case where the circumstances are somewhat similar at least on the surface.
I'm not saying you're outright wrong, but you are definately not presenting a scenario that is certain to be a 100% match to the (unknown to most) chriteria that said site has met in order to get CCP approval for their methods of financing their website.
The circumstances that we are aware of are:
1. I can spend money at a specific site and indirectly receive in-game currency in return from a second site. 2. There is no single party directly receiving the money AND giving out the ISK.
Any business that uses the same setup would also have to be legal, plain and simple. But like I said, I highly encourage people to take advantage of this loophole to see how much it takes for CCP to step in and admit they ****** up with SOMER. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoavH8xbrPE |

Sar Carstic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dalmont Delantee wrote:[quote=DNSBLACK]1.
Simpler way biomass - you wont' be missed
You speak for yourself, I am missing him already. Gentlemen you can't fight in here, this is the War Room! |

Adm AnnAlingus
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
When I win him from this lottery, I know what I will be doing to him. Over and over again. |

Sar Carstic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Adm AnnAlingus wrote:When I win him from this lottery, I know what I will be doing to him. Over and over again.
I am choosing to believe that you mean raffling. Gentlemen you can't fight in here, this is the War Room! |

Cameron Freerunner
Long Jump.
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
Adm AnnAlingus wrote:When I win him from this lottery, I know what I will be doing to him. Over and over again. Black pushes back. Ask him. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
291
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sar Carstic wrote:Adm AnnAlingus wrote:When I win him from this lottery, I know what I will be doing to him. Over and over again. I am choosing to believe that you mean raffling.
lottery, raffle who cares I am trusted by CCP I could call it this
DNSBlack is thinking about commiting eve suicide. CCP thru there words and actions on this site are cyber bulling me into killing off my character. Please go and by a GTC from the GOON store they have negotiated the best price with me and you will be given a save Black isk credit and entered into the raffle to save my character from Biomass suicide. I want to support the goons cause The Mittani has done such a great job in supporting anti bully programs since his drunken miss step.
Are we having fun yet. |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Sar Carstic wrote:Adm AnnAlingus wrote:When I win him from this lottery, I know what I will be doing to him. Over and over again. I am choosing to believe that you mean raffling. lottery, raffle who cares I am trusted by CCP I could call it this DNSBlack is thinking about commiting eve suicide. CCP thru there words and actions on this site are cyber bulling me into killing off my character. Please go and by a GTC from the GOON store they have negotiated the best price with me and you will be given a save Black isk credit and entered into the raffle to save my character from Biomass suicide. I want to support the goons cause The Mittani has done such a great job in supporting anti bully programs since his drunken miss step. Are we having fun yet. i love it  |

Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin.
Really? I would think this would violate Section 6B of the EULA...
EULA wrote: B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
...as well as item 10 of the Terms of Service
Terms of Service wrote: 10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
I think the "any other means" in the EULA covers raffles. The same with "otherwise arrange" in ToS.
I'll be interested to see how this plays out.
The Nosy Gamer - Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer |

CarlosB
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Well that is a really good idea i think i'll do the same since it is legal acording to CCP blind eye on SOMMER and friends...
No point for me beeing on a game that the owners don't respect they're own contract. |
|

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
292
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin.
Really? I would think this would violate Section 6B of the EULA... EULA wrote: B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
...as well as item 10 of the Terms of Service Terms of Service wrote: 10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
I think the "any other means" in the EULA covers raffles. The same with "otherwise arrange" in ToS. I'll be interested to see how this plays out.
that section of the EULA is what is now being called a grey area. Sad this all happening during one of the best player events and just prior to an expansion I was really excited about. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
292
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
But don't worry my character has a lot of LP in SOE so who ever wins him will be sitting pretty with the new ships!!!!!!!! |

Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
557
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
Whoa did i miss something here. Does this mean its now possible, in a round-about sort of way, to convert your isk into cash?
Since when did this become possible? Post with your main, like a BOSS! |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Whoa did i miss something here. Does this mean its now possible, in a round-about sort of way, to convert your isk into cash?
Since when did this become possible? since Somer Blink apparently |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4040
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
I have no idea who you are... but i like the idea... |

Noriko Mai
969
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:I have no idea who you are... but i like the idea... . |

Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Rosewalker wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin.
Really? I would think this would violate Section 6B of the EULA... EULA wrote: B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
...as well as item 10 of the Terms of Service Terms of Service wrote: 10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
I think the "any other means" in the EULA covers raffles. The same with "otherwise arrange" in ToS. I'll be interested to see how this plays out. that section of the EULA is what is now being called a grey area. Sad this all happening during one of the best player events and just prior to an expansion I was really excited about.
Just want to clarify. Is this because of the prizes given to SOMER to raffle off for EVE Vegas or are you charging that players are using lotteries to convert in-game items to real world money like the scheme you described in the OP? The Nosy Gamer - Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer |

TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation The Cursed Few
109
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 00:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Whoa did i miss something here. Does this mean its now possible, in a round-about sort of way, to convert your isk into cash?
Since when did this become possible?
If they get maybe 5 to 10% of every GTC sold through Markee they would earn a minimum of 50 bucks a month if only one GTC is sold per day. Since that's probably not the case, I'd guesstimate they make at least 200 bucks a month. Cold hard dollars. Minus website costs, maybe 100 bucks? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoavH8xbrPE |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:15:00 -
[59] - Quote
quote=Kirren D'marr]Anya Klibor wrote:I'll admit to being ignorant of the other issues in that I don't know the specifics, but I know of them. The only one I am aware of and know the details of is the members of Blink receiving Ishukone Watch Scorpions, so if you wouldn't mind linking me to the other issues at hand for me to look through, that'd be terrific!
This stuff has been all over the forums of late, but here's a few threads to get you started:
CCP reintroducing the Gold Magate and adding in new Guardian-Vexors through Somer Blink
A review of player giveaways with CCP and third party sites
CSM Statement on the SOMER Promotion (with reply from CCP Pokethulu)
SomerGate - Questions.
Ishukone Ships and Surrounding issues... Coming SOON (TM)
And a few articles from player-run sties:
SOMERblink: Serving the Eve Community, Not a Community Service
SOMER of rage
Rare Item Lottery Sparks Controversy
CCP Changes Somer Blink Giveaway
CCP Secretly Gifted SOMER Blink Ishukone Scorpions
There's a lot of material to get through; most of the relevant stuff isn't in the first posts, but in conversations that develop in the responses. The thread we are currently in, being one of the latest, probably has the most comprehensive information, but it is still a lot to dig through. Basically though, there are multiple allegations of actions of favoritism of CCP towards SOMER Blink, compounded with the RMT-like nature of SOMER's operation, CCP's choice of a for-profit organization over true community services as a target for giveaways, CCP upsetting the balance of the sandbox by giving SOMER Blink a clear advantage over their competitors, possible connections between CCP employees and SOMER (devs who may have been former members of SOMER Blink before being hired, etc.), and the list goes on.
The bottom line is that there is certainly the appearance of a lot of impropriety going on between CCP and SOMER Blink. How much of it is substantiated has yet to be fully discovered, but there is enough evidence to warrant concern, and we may all still be surprised at exactly how far this goes.[/quote]
Rosewalker here is a up date |
|

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2453

|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. Thread locked. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

Frying Doom
2629
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:After further review of the thread, I am unlocking this thread, but I ask that any issue you raise is presented in the proper fashion. I apologize for any incorrect judgments made on my part. Thank you. OMG
It must be the drugs. I am hallucinating. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2458

|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:After further review of the thread, I am unlocking this thread, but I ask that any issue you raise is presented in the proper fashion. I apologize for any incorrect judgments made on my part. Thank you. OMG It must be the drugs. I am hallucinating. Mistakes happen. I'm willing to admit one was made and rectify it. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|

Frying Doom
2629
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Frying Doom wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:After further review of the thread, I am unlocking this thread, but I ask that any issue you raise is presented in the proper fashion. I apologize for any incorrect judgments made on my part. Thank you. OMG It must be the drugs. I am hallucinating. Mistakes happen. I'm willing to admit one was made and rectify it. I wasn't criticizing, I was honestly pleasantly surprised.
It is nice to see
Thank You. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Noriko Mai
984
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:After further review of the thread, I am unlocking this thread, but I ask that any issue you raise is presented in the proper fashion. I apologize for any incorrect judgments made on my part. Thank you. Holy ****. ISD with balls! |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
153
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:After further review of the thread, I am unlocking this thread, but I ask that any issue you raise is presented in the proper fashion. I apologize for any incorrect judgments made on my part. Thank you.

thanks for the apology and the unlock. wasn't expecting that but it certainly is a welcome gesture. |

Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
236
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
So can someone explain to me this step-by-step officially sanctioned by CCP RMT? |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3321
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
Nicely done, ISD. |

KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
908
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Is this the end of Dirt Nap Squad?!
Tune in next time to realise nobody cares! BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |

Argus Sorn
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
381
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Frying Doom wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:After further review of the thread, I am unlocking this thread, but I ask that any issue you raise is presented in the proper fashion. I apologize for any incorrect judgments made on my part. Thank you. OMG It must be the drugs. I am hallucinating. Mistakes happen. I'm willing to admit one was made and rectify it.
They should put this dude in charge. Finally, someone who can take responsibility and make a decision. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
315
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
The first CCP employee who gets it. Thank you for unlocking my thread to profit of the new business model of CCP. |
|

Luis Graca
216
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sorry for interrupt you're happiness but ISD aren't employees they are volunteers
Anyway i still can't believe they unlocked it |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1631
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:22:00 -
[72] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:So can someone explain to me this step-by-step officially sanctioned by CCP RMT?
DNSBLACK wrote: The first CCP employee who gets it. Thank you for unlocking my thread to profit of the new business model of CCP. ISD's action is not endorsement or approval, do not suggest so or you'll be locked again :P |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
316
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:29:00 -
[73] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:Sorry for interrupt you're happiness but ISD aren't employees they are volunteers
Anyway i still can't believe they unlocked it
LOL----> VOL or EMPLOYEE really he is incharge of CCP products IE the ducking forums dumb ass. I guess this makes him a employee.
Guess what his monthly pay is a free ducking account = emplyoyee |

Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
236
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:Sorry for interrupt you're happiness but ISD aren't employees they are volunteers
Anyway i still can't believe they unlocked it
Clearly they are victims of bound by their own EULA which was figured out by Somer years ago and has been exploiting contributing to the community ever since  |

KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
908
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:33:00 -
[75] - Quote
Please stop saying *ducking*
It makes me want to kick a puppy.
Or maybe a duck. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
318
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Please stop saying *ducking*
It makes me want to kick a puppy.
Or maybe a duck.
Put this on you tube. I would love to watch it |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
320
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
http://www.teen.com/2012/09/24/im-bored/one-direction-dolls-funny-pictures/attachment/1d8/
for all the doll poster; I just wanted this posted here so others can answer for me when you ask in this post. |

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
1557
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:33:00 -
[78] - Quote
I had a big client the other day who was from dirt nap squad but i forgot his name. All I remember was he failed the rules quite badly. Was this you/ See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |

Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:33:00 -
[79] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:1. I am looking for a 3rd party wholesale GTC seller.
2. I would like to discuss the terms on splitting your profit with me to raffle off some of my in game assets.
3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
4. 1 Black credit for the raffle will be given out for every GTC bought on your site. You can hold the raffle once 1000 GTC have been sold. If players would like to buy a ticket in game it will cost 1 plex and you can have them contract it to you.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin.
Came for OP's stuff. Left slightly disappointed that he hasn't contracted anything to me, yet. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |

Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 05:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote: I had a big client the other day who was from dirt nap squad but i forgot his name. All I remember was he failed the rules quite badly. Was this you/
It certainly wasn't me. I broke the crap out of your rules, on purpose :p "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
|

Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
557
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:31:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Erotica 1 wrote: I had a big client the other day who was from dirt nap squad but i forgot his name. All I remember was he failed the rules quite badly. Was this you/
It certainly wasn't me. I broke the crap out of your rules, on purpose :p
Her rules are just crap. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |

Prince Kobol
1047
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 06:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:1. I am looking for a 3rd party wholesale GTC seller.
2. I would like to discuss the terms on splitting your profit with me to raffle off some of my in game assets.
3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
4. 1 Black credit for the raffle will be given out for every GTC bought on your site. You can hold the raffle once 1000 GTC have been sold. If players would like to buy a ticket in game it will cost 1 plex and you can have them contract it to you.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
I am doing this to re-capture some of my money I have spent on EVE over the last 7 years and look for another game to play. This is not a joke and CCP has left me no choice. I suggest that everyone of you look to sell your stuff in this manner before CCP cracks down.
So if you are a third party seller of GTC please send me a eve mail with your percentage offer let the bidding begin.
Here is a list
https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx
Yeah I know your trying to make a point but are your doing is coming off like a child throwing a tantrum.
Expected more from you. |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4044
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:41:00 -
[83] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Erotica 1 wrote: I had a big client the other day who was from dirt nap squad but i forgot his name. All I remember was he failed the rules quite badly. Was this you/
It certainly wasn't me. I broke the crap out of your rules, on purpose :p Her rules are just crap. I bet you talk down to her just so... |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4044
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 07:44:00 -
[84] - Quote
lol you don't quite get it. |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:56:00 -
[85] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Yeah one problem with your 'game'. Markee Dragon, to whom you're obviously referring, isn't a wholesale GTC seller. He's a reseller and he buys his GTC's at a wholesale company (not a lot of which exist as far as I know).
But yeah, should be legal. If SOMER can do it so should everyone else. Will be fun seeing CCP's reaction if more of these things start popping up all over the place :D The follow on from that is, does it have to involve GTC and CCP making a profit for it to be legit. For example can I sell you a pen for say $10.00USD + P&H (Specially engraved pen, it has the words BIC on the side of it) and give you 1.2 billion pen credits to spend on lotteries on a web site. Now on this website you can of course bid on other pens +p&h or if you choose you can take all of the pen lottery slots in a lottery and spend the 1.2 billion pen credits and convert that to isk-20%. So you receive 1 billion isk and a pen. 
If you read the posts by one of the resellers, EVE-GAMES in the main thread, this would not be allowed as he thinks the separation of referrer and seller is why it does not break the EULA. The logic seems to be YOU are selling the stuff for isk so the EULA is broken.
What you need to do is make a break in the isk-stuff chain: you offer the ISK to anyone who buys X from another site then you are not trading isk for item directly. So isk-intermediary-stuff is legally ok. |

Prince Kobol
1048
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:02:00 -
[86] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:lol you don't quite get it.
Oh I get it, I just don't give a crap, if he wants to leave then leave. |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Dont want the list, want to know how to get on the gravy train list itself.
CCP, tell us how we can join the list to max out our profit on our in-game ISK!
|

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1289
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:14:00 -
[88] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote:Dont want the list, want to know how to get on the gravy train list itself. CCP, tell us how we can join the list to max out our profit on our in-game ISK! Agreed. If we're now allowed to turn our assets into cash when we quit, it makes liquidising some accounts much more appealing next time I go through a "bored of eve" slump (due any time now I think). I only really care about my main, I could sell the rest, then "raffle" the isk into cash. Clarify if this is now allowed please CCP! The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Prince Kobol
1048
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:23:00 -
[89] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote:Dont want the list, want to know how to get on the gravy train list itself. CCP, tell us how we can join the list to max out our profit on our in-game ISK!
You need that list dumbass otherwise you can't do squat..
Its very simple.
First thing is you have to do is contact the sites on that list and see if they run a referral program.
Then create a Eve Lottery Site with links to those sites which you have signed up to their referral program.
Give free lottery tickets to anybody who purchases GTC's via your links.
Job Done. |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:DarkDecay wrote:Dont want the list, want to know how to get on the gravy train list itself. CCP, tell us how we can join the list to max out our profit on our in-game ISK! You need that list dumbass otherwise you can't do squat.. Its very simple. First thing is you have to do is contact the sites on that list and see if they run a referral program. Then create a Eve Lottery Site with links to those sites which you have signed up to their referral program. Give free lottery tickets to anybody who purchases GTC's via your links. Job Done.
Would appear you are the dumbass here.
To maximise the profit you need to get on that list. With my in game assets I can give 200mil per gtc to about 11k buyers. This will make me around $33,000 (based on $3 per gtc sold).
By becoming a reseller and not just a user, I can offer deals to other people. This means that I can offer deals to some smaller customers to convert their ISK to $ with a small cut of the ISK for me: say 100 million to me and 200 million to the customer for $3.
This will allow me to make a lot more $ than I would by simply using someone on the list, dumbass. |
|

Herr Esiq
Dirt Nap Squad
72
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:49:00 -
[91] - Quote
Exept that you dont convert ISK to $ you convert them to raffle tickets. |
|

CCP Falcon
4206

|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
This thread is being moved to the Ingame Events and Gatherings sub-forum.
Our customer support team is also in the process of reviewing this particular style of raffle to ensure it conforms with our rules and policies.

CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
|

Naiobi
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:01:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:This thread is being moved to the Ingame Events and Gatherings sub-forum. Our customer support team is also in the process of reviewing this particular style of raffle to ensure it conforms with our rules and policies. 
I hope someone have been quick to print screen on the EULA, you cant trust anyone when it comes to RL cash. (call me paranoid) But if DNS is right about this, then he got CCP's balls in his hand. |

Prince Kobol
1048
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:02:00 -
[94] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:DarkDecay wrote:Dont want the list, want to know how to get on the gravy train list itself. CCP, tell us how we can join the list to max out our profit on our in-game ISK! You need that list dumbass otherwise you can't do squat.. Its very simple. First thing is you have to do is contact the sites on that list and see if they run a referral program. Then create a Eve Lottery Site with links to those sites which you have signed up to their referral program. Give free lottery tickets to anybody who purchases GTC's via your links. Job Done. Would appear you are the dumbass here. To maximise the profit you need to get on that list. With my in game assets I can give 200mil per gtc to about 11k buyers. This will make me around $33,000 (based on $3 per gtc sold). By becoming a reseller and not just a user, I can offer deals to other people. This means that I can offer deals to some smaller customers to convert their ISK to $ with a small cut of the ISK for me: say 100 million to me and 200 million to the customer for $3. This will allow me to make a lot more $ than I would by simply using someone on the list, dumbass.
By converting isk to $ you have just committed RMT..
At no point does Somerblink which thread is aimed at, covert RL Money to Isk.
They give blink credits in turn for you using their referral scheme.
Now some people will say you can use that credit to guarantee a win and then converting that to isk by blinking on all slots on a ship, however that isn't as easy as it sounds as chances are somebody will place a blink on that ship so your chance of success whilst high isn't 100%.
So you still need a method of attracting people to your site and to use your referral service without offering them isk.
Like the example I gave, on a lottery site you would give x number of tickets in return.
So those using your referral might have a higher chance of winning said lottery due to them having more tickets. but it isn't 100% guaranteed.
|

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1328
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:54:00 -
[95] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:By converting isk to $ you have just committed RMT..
At no point does Somerblink which thread is aimed at, covert RL Money to Isk or isk to RL Money
They give blink credits in turn for you using their referral scheme.
Now some people will say you can use that credit to guarantee a win and then converting that to isk by blinking on all slots on a ship, however that isn't as easy as it sounds as chances are somebody will place a blink on that ship so your chance of success whilst high isn't 100%.
So you still need a method of attracting people to your site and to use your referral service without offering them isk.
Like the example I gave, on a lottery site you would give x number of tickets in return.
So those using your referral might have a higher chance of winning said lottery due to them having more tickets. but it isn't 100% guaranteed. Bull! Credits are as good as isk. Not to mention they can only offer "credit" by having the isk to back it up. Also 80% of the credit WILL be able to be converted into isk. It may not be by the buyer, but 80% of the credit value will en up as winnings. What you have here is a technicality they are using the launder isk into cash, nothing more. To do the same, the only thing you'd need to do is offer "tickets" not isk, then allow you to buy a whole lottery for 100% of the winnings. Slapping the word "game" on it would make it as valid as Somer. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Reckless Ourtomineng
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:26:00 -
[96] - Quote
What has this thread to do with event & gathering ? :O |

Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
224
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:31:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:This thread is being moved to the Ingame Events and Gatherings sub-forum. Our customer support team is also in the process of reviewing this particular style of raffle to ensure it conforms with our rules and policies. 
Let me help you - raffles for characters have never been allowed, regardless of the level of trolling butthurt about website advertising banners in the raffle.
And threads about quitting eve have never been allowed anywhere but OOPE.
So....there's your rule review. |

Dani Lizardov
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
26
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:45:00 -
[98] - Quote
Abditus Cularius wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:This thread is being moved to the Ingame Events and Gatherings sub-forum. Our customer support team is also in the process of reviewing this particular style of raffle to ensure it conforms with our rules and policies.  Let me help you - raffles for characters have never been allowed, regardless of the level of trolling butthurt about website advertising banners in the raffle. And threads about quitting eve have never been allowed anywhere but OOPE. So....there's your rule review.
No no... please allow me to help You: I have a few Machariels and I would like to put em in a raffles, especially if that will net me 200$ per ship. Does that help?
Quote:raffles for characters have never been allowed Are you sure? I can remember a few. I would probably dig up the forum posts about them using google.... How is a character different from a Machariel? It has an Isk value. It's legal. They are rules about it....
|

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:24:00 -
[99] - Quote
Abditus Cularius wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:This thread is being moved to the Ingame Events and Gatherings sub-forum. Our customer support team is also in the process of reviewing this particular style of raffle to ensure it conforms with our rules and policies.  Let me help you - raffles for characters have never been allowed, regardless of the level of trolling butthurt about website advertising banners in the raffle. And threads about quitting eve have never been allowed anywhere but OOPE. So....there's your rule review. shilling for Somer in yet another thread aye?  |

TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation The Cursed Few
111
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:28:00 -
[100] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: By converting isk to $ you have just committed RMT..
At no point does Somerblink which thread is aimed at, covert RL Money to Isk or isk to RL Money
They give blink credits in turn for you using their referral scheme.
That's the genius part of the entire thing. Neither of the two parties in this setup directly handle both the ISK AND the real money and thus there is no RMT to speak of.
If you would attempt to do this thing on your own IE; you both sell the GTC's AND run the lottery THEN it would be RMT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoavH8xbrPE |
|

Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
280
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:01:00 -
[101] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Prince Kobol wrote: By converting isk to $ you have just committed RMT..
At no point does Somerblink which thread is aimed at, covert RL Money to Isk or isk to RL Money
They give blink credits in turn for you using their referral scheme.
That's the genius part of the entire thing. Neither of the two parties in this setup directly handle both the ISK AND the real money and thus there is no RMT to speak of. If you would attempt to do this thing on your own IE; you both sell the GTC's AND run the lottery THEN it would be RMT.
Are you saying that SOMER do not receive a referral fee for those GTCs?
They may not get the full amount paid by the GTC purchaser but they definitely get paid so they are handling both the ISK AND the real money and thus there is RMT. The fact there is a fake currency in between that works as the cash > ISK exchange is immaterial. |

Embarased for You
Oooooo Burn
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:05:00 -
[102] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/Kei4CZR.png |

Cameron Freerunner
Long Jump.
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:13:00 -
[103] - Quote
So they moved the thread? This is why CCP should hire a professional communicator. Moving it here pretends there's a real raffle while ignoring the underlying point. When CCP does crap like this, it just comes off as a snarky, jackass move. |

Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4239
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:18:00 -
[104] - Quote
Black, you can set yourself up as a Markee Dragon affiliate yourself. He says you get about 5%, which works out to about $1 US per 30 day GTC. So your raffle would net you $1,000. You would probably be better off selling your character the regular way, and taking all the ISK and starting a terrible, dumb "gambling" site. You could tell people you pay out 80% of the time, like Somer does, and end up getting $1 per 80 mil ISK. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
|

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
338
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:57:00 -
[105] - Quote
Two Step better yet
1. I just sold a GTC to a guy for $2500.00 I gave him 2500 black credits.
2. I just sold another guy a GTC for $17.00 and gave him 2 black credits
3. Both of these guys used the black credits and bought tickets to my charcter raffle.
4. I all ready held the drawing and the winner will be announced soon.
5. I will be starting the legal transfer on the charcter form today.
6. Thank you CCP I made $ 2502 dollars enjoy your 30.00 dollars.
7. I did this with no website. |

Cameron Freerunner
Long Jump.
69
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:41:00 -
[106] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Two Step better yet
1. I just sold a GTC to a guy for $2500.00 I gave him 2500 black credits.
2. I just sold another guy a GTC for $17.00 and gave him 2 black credits
3. Both of these guys used the black credits and bought tickets to my charcter raffle.
4. I all ready held the drawing and the winner will be announced soon.
5. I will be starting the legal transfer on the charcter form today.
6. Thank you CCP I made $ 2502 dollars enjoy your 30.00 dollars.
7. I did this with no website. Did you warn the new buyer that no one will engage him when he's in an Arazu? |

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
342
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
1. Net gain $2475.00.
2. Would like to thank all of you for posting and helping me sell my GTC and black credits. The bumps and advertising was awesome.
3. Please watch the character Bazaar for the final transfer according to all the rules. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2703
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:54:00 -
[108] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Two Step better yet
1. I just sold a GTC to a guy for $2500.00 I gave him 2500 black credits.
2. I just sold another guy a GTC for $17.00 and gave him 2 black credits
3. Both of these guys used the black credits and bought tickets to my charcter raffle.
4. I all ready held the drawing and the winner will be announced soon.
5. I will be starting the legal transfer on the charcter form today.
6. Thank you CCP I made $ 2502 dollars enjoy your 30.00 dollars.
7. I did this with no website. Wait.
Are you kidding me?
Did this really just happen? ...or am I being trolled?
|

Frying Doom
2655
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:16:00 -
[109] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:1. Net gain $2475.00.
2. Would like to thank all of you for posting and helping me sell my GTC and black credits. The bumps and advertising was awesome.
3. Please watch the character Bazaar for the final transfer according to all the rules. Awesome
I think this section is about to get very full  Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:40:00 -
[110] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:1. Net gain $2475.00.
Is this RMT? Almost certainly.
Is it funny as ****? You are god damn right it is...
|
|

Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:42:00 -
[111] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote: Is this RMT? Almost certainly.
Apparently it's actually more of a grey area. |

Frying Doom
2658
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:44:00 -
[112] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:1. Net gain $2475.00. Is this RMT? Almost certainly. Is it funny as ****? You are god damn right it is... No apparently by using black credits it is perfectly legal.
I will admit I like the fact there is someone out there who is willing to pay real cash for well known characters, I wonder what Frying doom is worth? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:45:00 -
[113] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:... I wonder what Frying doom is worth?
I think quite a lot of people are wondering what their characters are worth at the moment. 
|

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2705
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:46:00 -
[114] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: No apparently by using black credits it is perfectly legal.
I will admit I like the fact there is someone out there who is willing to pay real cash for well known characters, I wonder what Frying doom is worth?
Don't know. Pretty sure the zillion hours I've invested in Gogela isn't worth his $20 market value. 
|

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:08:00 -
[115] - Quote
Still laughing at how funny this is. |

Bob FromMarketing
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
60
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 00:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
I like this.
I'd like to see what CCP does, as technically the Black Credit only allows the winner to negotiate the sale of the character which will be sold for 1isk and with the seller paying the transfer fee, no rules are broken.
Good Fights allround
*to clarify* I like the subversion, not the RMT |

Joey Zasa
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 01:11:00 -
[117] - Quote
Please understand DNS is going thru a change of command, in the coming days, a new CEO will be elected per our bylaws. The new position will be called "LORD MARSHALL". I would like it to be known that Zasaco and its affiliates were not involved that this is not a Coup, we are looking for a smooth transition and hope our ex- leader the best in his search for a new corp or game.
Joey Zasa- Capo of Finance and logistics
PS- we are booting Hu Immediately.... |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3138
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 02:25:00 -
[118] - Quote
Joey Zasa wrote:PS- we are booting Hu Immediately.... Well, at least one good thing is coming out of this sh*tstorm...  Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |

Frying Doom
2667
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 03:06:00 -
[119] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Joey Zasa wrote:PS- we are booting Hu Immediately.... Well, at least one good thing is coming out of this sh*tstorm...  Who is Hu?
Did you let some prat like Frying Doom into Dirt Nap Squad? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3139
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 03:30:00 -
[120] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Did you let some prat like Frying Doom into Dirt Nap Squad? Frying Doom is far too respectable to be allowed in DNS. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
|

DNSBLACK
Aliastra Gallente Federation
372
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:21:00 -
[121] - Quote
Hey CCP; DNS just set you RED and welcome to the sand box. Somer is a enemy of DNS and you have them set blue please
take a look in your lobby it is time to PVP.
http://i.imgur.com/Hk1UAInh.jpg
Yes I have control of this charcter still waiting for my eastern block friends to wake up and drink some coffee. |

Sar'ran Zorn
St. Albans' Refuge
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:31:00 -
[122] - Quote
ThatTotallyHappened.jpg |

Wildthing Mileghere
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 05:51:00 -
[123] - Quote
Wow, I just traded most of my assets to some fella claiming to be my ceo "asset redistribution plan". So glad I got the memo.
Cancelling my sub now. You can't have all my stuff. I MIGHT be back. I dunno. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2716
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 06:02:00 -
[124] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Joey Zasa wrote:PS- we are booting Hu Immediately.... Well, at least one good thing is coming out of this sh*tstorm...  LOL> The shitstorm is yet to come. If RMT in eve is recognized as legit (which it now is) we may see a headline like "Curse region Sovereignty in EvE online sold for $400K " second life style.
|

Prince Kobol
1051
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 06:18:00 -
[125] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:By converting isk to $ you have just committed RMT..
At no point does Somerblink which thread is aimed at, covert RL Money to Isk or isk to RL Money
They give blink credits in turn for you using their referral scheme.
Now some people will say you can use that credit to guarantee a win and then converting that to isk by blinking on all slots on a ship, however that isn't as easy as it sounds as chances are somebody will place a blink on that ship so your chance of success whilst high isn't 100%.
So you still need a method of attracting people to your site and to use your referral service without offering them isk.
Like the example I gave, on a lottery site you would give x number of tickets in return.
So those using your referral might have a higher chance of winning said lottery due to them having more tickets. but it isn't 100% guaranteed. Bull! Credits are as good as isk. Not to mention they can only offer "credit" by having the isk to back it up. Also 80% of the credit WILL be able to be converted into isk. It may not be by the buyer, but 80% of the credit value will en up as winnings. What you have here is a technicality they are using the launder isk into cash, nothing more. To do the same, the only thing you'd need to do is offer "tickets" not isk, then allow you to buy a whole lottery for 100% of the winnings. Slapping the word "game" on it would make it as valid as Somer.
Whether its a technicality is irrelevant. The fact is there is no guarantee that isk that is given as credit will results in a winning a prize and then converted to isk.
I know because I play Somerblink. You have said many times yourself you do not. |

adarma
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 06:28:00 -
[126] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:By converting isk to $ you have just committed RMT..
At no point does Somerblink which thread is aimed at, covert RL Money to Isk or isk to RL Money
They give blink credits in turn for you using their referral scheme.
Now some people will say you can use that credit to guarantee a win and then converting that to isk by blinking on all slots on a ship, however that isn't as easy as it sounds as chances are somebody will place a blink on that ship so your chance of success whilst high isn't 100%.
So you still need a method of attracting people to your site and to use your referral service without offering them isk.
Like the example I gave, on a lottery site you would give x number of tickets in return.
So those using your referral might have a higher chance of winning said lottery due to them having more tickets. but it isn't 100% guaranteed. Bull! Credits are as good as isk. Not to mention they can only offer "credit" by having the isk to back it up. Also 80% of the credit WILL be able to be converted into isk. It may not be by the buyer, but 80% of the credit value will en up as winnings. What you have here is a technicality they are using the launder isk into cash, nothing more. To do the same, the only thing you'd need to do is offer "tickets" not isk, then allow you to buy a whole lottery for 100% of the winnings. Slapping the word "game" on it would make it as valid as Somer. Whether its a technicality is irrelevant. The fact is there is no guarantee that isk that is given as credit will results in a winning a prize and then converted to isk. I know because I play Somerblink. You have said many times yourself you do not.
With this game, there is very little guarantee of anything, so point missed.
This aside Kobol, I have wanted to ask you a question for a sometime now. How much profit does Somer make each month, in isk and $?
|

Frying Doom
2674
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 07:52:00 -
[127] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Whether its a technicality is irrelevant. The fact is there is no guarantee that isk that is given as credit will results in a winning a prize and then converted to isk.
I know because I play Somerblink. You have said many times yourself you do not. Just as there was not a 100% chance of winning the right to bid on DNS BLACK
Sold GTC: check Gave out fake credits to bid with: check Won an prize with those fake credits: check
Looks above board to me. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
103
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 08:02:00 -
[128] - Quote
Guys. It is happening all the time.
I posted this a year ago or so and I will post it again. If some GTC seller offers you SOMER credits in addition or as a bonus to your GTC, then he is - even if he uses the normal price - technically undercutting another GTC seller who does NOT offer the bonus. Then SOMER gets some small portion of the turnover - RMT here we go. Through legal and very subtle ways, SOMER has sold ISK indirectly for cash. And they are doing it again with each and every promoted GTC sale.
Thing is: no matter what CCP or any other MMO company say or want: all the virtual items and/or currencies do have a REAL value for players. They are limited (you cant just have infinite ISK) and they do provide utility (enjoying gaming more, saving you time, prestige, whatever). These two qualities and nothing more define an economic good (with the small catch that in theory, CCP can anytime switch off the server and say "**** happens").
So people will always try to do such trades, even if they are criminalized. Unless CCP decides to buy back PLEX for cash (thus making the ISK freely convertible).
|

Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 09:28:00 -
[129] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:Thing is: no matter what CCP or any other MMO company say or want: all the virtual items and/or currencies do have a REAL value for players. No they do not. That's like EULA 101 when you sign up on your very first day with your very first toon. ISK and ingame items have no RL value. Just because people want their character's SP, experience and thousands of hours of effort to be valuable in terms of RL monetary worth doesn't make it so. A buyer who thinks spending RL money on a character or expensive ingame asset is a good idea is exactly who this saying is about: a fool and his money are soon parted.
Having said that, there are probably a lot of people in Reykjav+¡k losing a lot of sleep over this debacle, so +1 to the OP for pushing the envelope. Wouldn't want to be him, though, when CCP voids the character transfer and the buyer comes looking for his $2500 refund. |

DarkDecay
The Scope Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 09:37:00 -
[130] - Quote
Swidgen wrote:[ Wouldn't want to be him, though, when CCP voids the character transfer and the buyer comes looking for his $2500 refund.
That is what I want as to ban this they must ban somer and all the other rmt'ers. |
|

Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 09:41:00 -
[131] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote:Swidgen wrote:[ Wouldn't want to be him, though, when CCP voids the character transfer and the buyer comes looking for his $2500 refund. That is what I want as to ban this they must ban somer and all the other rmt'ers. And that would be fine with me as well  |

Fel'ina Twilight
Tesseract Industries
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:06:00 -
[132] - Quote
Actually, this procedure should go through now.
|

neuva
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:12:00 -
[133] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Two Step better yet
1. I just sold a GTC to a guy for $2500.00 I gave him 2500 black credits.
2. I just sold another guy a GTC for $17.00 and gave him 2 black credits
3. Both of these guys used the black credits and bought tickets to my charcter raffle.
4. I all ready held the drawing and the winner will be announced soon.
5. I will be starting the legal transfer on the charcter form today.
6. Thank you CCP I made $ 2502 dollars enjoy your 30.00 dollars.
7. I did this with no website.
Godspeed ye crazy old magnificent basterd! *two thumbs up*
|

Dionysus Caldoron
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:54:00 -
[134] - Quote
Scram, web CCP?!
Wow, just wow... |

neuva
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 11:01:00 -
[135] - Quote
Considering the Somer's immense economy (which can cripple/kill a regional market), this whole stuff is similar to the government vs mafia vegas casinos who do real laundering. It is hard to detect, as everyone gets a cut, and things happen in small increments.
Props to DNSBlack, exagerating the method to show it for all eyes ...and inventing the "Black ISK". |

Calisto Thellere
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:59:00 -
[136] - Quote
So if i wanted to sell myself for cash, i could just make up some "calisto credits" things which you get free when you buy a GTC from me via an affiliates program?
1. sell a GTC to a guy for $3000 I gave him 3000 calisto credits.
2. sell another GTC to a guy for $17.00 and gave him 2 calisto credits
3. Both of these guys used the black credits and bought tickets to my charcter raffle.
Perform a draw and thats it?
BRB, Setting up affiliates program. |

Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:15:00 -
[137] - Quote
Well played OP.
Can't imagine how desperate CCP are to lock and permaban but they really don't have a choice. This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |

MyEveLotto
myEVElotto.com
46
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:27:00 -
[138] - Quote
I think I now have found an expansion to make on my website.
myEVElotto will permit you to sell your characters and/or assets through our system. To purchase tickets for your character/asset lottery, one can send money via PayPal to a designated account. The system then selects a random winner (from those who purchased MELtickets) and that person wins the prize.
If you need a lottery front to legitimize your RMT CCP-authorized character lottery, please contact myEVElotto for pricing and terms. We will act as the "third party" that every legit CCP-authorized RMT scheme lottery requires. myEVElotto.com - The New Public Lottery Site |

seth Hendar
I love you miners
196
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
DarkDecay wrote:Swidgen wrote:[ Wouldn't want to be him, though, when CCP voids the character transfer and the buyer comes looking for his $2500 refund. That is what I want as to ban this they must ban somer and all the other rmt'ers. agreed, whatever the form RMT takes, it shall lead to permaban of the accounts and the payement method used to found thoses accounts / IP of the owners. period. |

Igor Nappi
Perkone Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:48:00 -
[140] - Quote
Well done. I think OP should get special edition pirate ships and free trips to Iceland from CCP. |
|

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1344
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:By converting isk to $ you have just committed RMT..
At no point does Somerblink which thread is aimed at, covert RL Money to Isk or isk to RL Money
They give blink credits in turn for you using their referral scheme.
Now some people will say you can use that credit to guarantee a win and then converting that to isk by blinking on all slots on a ship, however that isn't as easy as it sounds as chances are somebody will place a blink on that ship so your chance of success whilst high isn't 100%.
So you still need a method of attracting people to your site and to use your referral service without offering them isk.
Like the example I gave, on a lottery site you would give x number of tickets in return.
So those using your referral might have a higher chance of winning said lottery due to them having more tickets. but it isn't 100% guaranteed. Bull! Credits are as good as isk. Not to mention they can only offer "credit" by having the isk to back it up. Also 80% of the credit WILL be able to be converted into isk. It may not be by the buyer, but 80% of the credit value will en up as winnings. What you have here is a technicality they are using the launder isk into cash, nothing more. To do the same, the only thing you'd need to do is offer "tickets" not isk, then allow you to buy a whole lottery for 100% of the winnings. Slapping the word "game" on it would make it as valid as Somer. Whether its a technicality is irrelevant. The fact is there is no guarantee that isk that is given as credit will results in a winning a prize and then converted to isk. I know because I play Somerblink. You have said many times yourself you do not. 80% of the credit will turn into ISK which can be redeemed in game spend on more tickets. FACT. That's RMT. Just because you might do it badly and have it end up as someone else's isk doesn't change that its isk being given away for cash. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Clolo
Origin. Black Legion.
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:17:00 -
[142] - Quote
Black when the new game you're going to play, will you be using the existing DNS comms while you play it? |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5330
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:51:00 -
[143] - Quote
I heartily endorse this event or product. |

DNSBLACK
Aliastra Gallente Federation
406
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:12:00 -
[144] - Quote
MyEveLotto wrote:I think I now have found an expansion to make on my website.
myEVElotto will permit you to sell your characters and/or assets through our system. To purchase tickets for your character/asset lottery, one can send money via PayPal to a designated account. The system then selects a random winner (from those who purchased MELtickets) and that person wins the prize.
If you need a lottery front to legitimize your RMT CCP-authorized character lottery, please contact myEVElotto for pricing and terms. We will act as the "third party" that every legit CCP-authorized RMT scheme lottery requires.
Stop stealing my ideas dammit. Wait one second what am I saying. YOU GO GIRL. I LOVE IT |

DNSBLACK
Aliastra Gallente Federation
409
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:27:00 -
[145] - Quote
At the rate my Paypal account is growing; I won't need CCP to give me trips to Iceland to BLack Blink off I can pay for it myself and then give it away .
They should be excited cause GTC sales for them will go thru the roof and the didn't have to pay for the trip. Winning |

Hra Neuvosto
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
146
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:28:00 -
[146] - Quote
Giving you a like, OP.
So your characters value will go up a bit. |

MyEveLotto
myEVElotto.com
48
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:48:00 -
[147] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Stop stealing my ideas dammit. Wait one second what am I saying. YOU GO GIRL. I LOVE IT
What do you care? You're quitting the game anyway. 
Besides, corporate espionage is what makes the world go 'round. How could you possibly object to it? myEVElotto.com - The New Public Lottery Site |

DNSBLACK
Aliastra Gallente Federation
412
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:51:00 -
[148] - Quote
MyEveLotto wrote:DNSBLACK wrote:Stop stealing my ideas dammit. Wait one second what am I saying. YOU GO GIRL. I LOVE IT What do you care? You're quitting the game anyway.  Besides, corporate espionage is what makes the world go 'round. How could you possibly object to it?
You missed my point. Iam excited for you.
|

MyEveLotto
myEVElotto.com
48
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:56:00 -
[149] - Quote
Yes. I am aware.
Damn you internet and your inability to properly convey sarcasm/humor through winky faces! myEVElotto.com - The New Public Lottery Site |

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
92
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:35:00 -
[150] - Quote
I don't know if this has been posted already, but your character is not Blink Credit. You are also not allowed to sell characters via a lottery.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6369&find=unread
Lottery style sales are not permitted. Auctions and buyouts are the appropriate method for selling a character. .
|
|

Murk Paradox
Duty. The Cursed Few
569
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:44:00 -
[151] - Quote
He is selling GTCs, I'm sure when he said he would sell his character through the bazaar it would be done properly.
For instance, I can sell my character for 1 isk. I can also choose who pays me for it. This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate. |

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
92
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:48:00 -
[152] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:He is selling GTCs, I'm sure when he said he would sell his character through the bazaar it would be done properly. For instance, I can sell my character for 1 isk. I can also choose who pays me for it.
DNSBLACK wrote: 3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
Does that count as impersonating CCP too? .
|

Frying Doom
2729
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:53:00 -
[153] - Quote
Once again that is a forum rule, you might try posting the relevant EULA section on character transfers. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Frying Doom
2729
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:54:00 -
[154] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:He is selling GTCs, I'm sure when he said he would sell his character through the bazaar it would be done properly. For instance, I can sell my character for 1 isk. I can also choose who pays me for it. DNSBLACK wrote: 3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
Does that count as impersonating CCP too? Please specify where his name is CCP anyone? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

DNSBLACK
Aliastra Gallente Federation
418
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:55:00 -
[155] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:He is selling GTCs, I'm sure when he said he would sell his character through the bazaar it would be done properly. For instance, I can sell my character for 1 isk. I can also choose who pays me for it. DNSBLACK wrote: 3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
Does that count as impersonating CCP too?
These are all grey areas now. |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
175
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:02:00 -
[156] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:He is selling GTCs, I'm sure when he said he would sell his character through the bazaar it would be done properly. For instance, I can sell my character for 1 isk. I can also choose who pays me for it. DNSBLACK wrote: 3. I will also would like to offer my character to raffle once all my assets are gone. We will follow all CCP rules for transfer once the raffle is over.
5. This practice has been ok'd and does not break the EULA according to CCP.
Does that count as impersonating CCP too? These are all grey areas now. Also if you look at the title of this post; Iam looking for a third party GTC seller backing. I am sure we will find the grey area in the word raffle together. damnit man, if you don't stop posting, i can't stop liking your comments!
|
|

CCP Dolan
C C P C C P Alliance
600

|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:21:00 -
[157] - Quote
Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. CCP Dolan | Community Representative
Twitter: @CCPDolan
Gooby pls |
|

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
175
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:25:00 -
[158] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. o/ Dolan
I'm curious, does this mean his scheme is acceptable so long as the ETC goes through a reseller? and how do affiliate sales fit into this?
|

Jennimar
Raytheon Intergalactic Research Gatekeepers Universe
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:26:00 -
[159] - Quote
Translation to CCP Response---
Everyone,
Please stop being so intelligent as to find loopholes in our rules. Why can't you all just be good little gamers like the guys over at WOW....just play the game quietly, and stop making trouble. Please understand.....only WE can do as we please...as we are the rule makers/breakers.
|

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4774
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:34:00 -
[160] - Quote
Jennimar wrote:Translation to CCP Response---
Everyone,
Please stop being so intelligent as to find loopholes in our rules. Why can't you all just be good little gamers like the guys over at WOW....just play the game quietly, and stop making trouble. Please understand.....only WE can do as we please...as we are the rule makers/breakers.
Pretty close yes.
In essence it doesn't matter what loophole you think you've found, if CCP doesn't like it (and they won't) they can close it at any time... and if you're making personal income from the selling of their intellectual property (GTC's, characters, or raffles to achieve the same end) I'd say it's probably a good thing you were planning to be gone anyway.  To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|

Dani Lizardov
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:41:00 -
[161] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter.
You are going to investigate is reselling legal ?
Can by any chance, wile you are at it, please ask Nikon can i sell my old DSLR too?
|

Druthlen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:47:00 -
[162] - Quote
This wraps up why somergate is so damning to CCP and eve. They dont know it yet. They think they got away with it. But they didnt. They will pay for this and if they dont fix it they will loose big time. |

Rain6638
Team Evil
1026
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:49:00 -
[163] - Quote
loose. BIG time
somebody gonna get a hurt real bad
(calm down. it's a russell peters reference.) [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5341
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:56:00 -
[164] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. How do I become an authorized reseller? You know, so I can run a completely legitimate GTC reselling operation that happens to also award lottery tickets for fantastic isk prizes. |

Jotaro Haake
The Nyan Cat Pirates Disband.
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:58:00 -
[165] - Quote
Love to be a fly on the wall at CCP HQ about now-ish.
Perhaps also Somer HQ - they will be sweating on this.
Saw the OP derping around a few days ago in local, didn't get the chance to wave. Shame I won't get the chance now, given he is bailing out. Even if he's on an elaborate troll mission, it's a convincing one.
Fly safe wherever you go bro. Ballsy way to go o7
|

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5344
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:07:00 -
[166] - Quote
Also, CCP explicitly advertises GTC wholesalers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx
This implicitly allows people to run their own GTC selling programs without official support because you're advertising wholesalers. The definition of wholesaler is that you buy from them for individual resale. |

TheButcherPete
The Big E SpaceMonkey's Alliance
316
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:13:00 -
[167] - Quote
Posting in the most legendary of emergence threads!
HOLD EVERYONE TO THE SAME STANDARD THAT YOU DO SOMERBLINK THE KING OF EVE RADIO
ElQuirko is my son |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4774
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:19:00 -
[168] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Also, CCP explicitly advertises GTC wholesalers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThis implicitly allows people to run their own GTC selling programs without official support because you're advertising wholesalers. The definition of wholesaler is that you buy from them for individual resale.
Quote:please contact one of our authorized wholesalers To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5346
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:22:00 -
[169] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Weaselior wrote:Also, CCP explicitly advertises GTC wholesalers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThis implicitly allows people to run their own GTC selling programs without official support because you're advertising wholesalers. The definition of wholesaler is that you buy from them for individual resale. Quote:please contact one of our authorized wholesalers Exactly! By authorizing wholesalers, you authorize resale of their goods by definition. |

Powers Sa
691
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:30:00 -
[170] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Weaselior wrote:Also, CCP explicitly advertises GTC wholesalers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThis implicitly allows people to run their own GTC selling programs without official support because you're advertising wholesalers. The definition of wholesaler is that you buy from them for individual resale. Quote:please contact one of our authorized wholesalers Exactly! By authorizing wholesalers, you authorize resale of their goods by definition. Imagine all the dudes with titans doing a sanctioned cashout. lol |
|

Jennimar
Raytheon Intergalactic Research Gatekeepers Universe
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:34:00 -
[171] - Quote
Hmmmmm......
I'm pretty sure there are meeting occurring with multiple department heads trying out how to spin this on an epic scale. "How do we tell our paying customers, to do as we say.....AND NOT AS WE DO!"
CCP has forgotten that one must---LEAD BY EXAMPLE!
If you want us to overlook your indescretions you must do the same for us...If you want us to be honorable folk who have integrity in all dealings within the Eve Universe....then do the same
Or have you....the creators of Eve Online forgotten that YOU taught US that this was a cold and cruel place.....and that anything and everything is supposed to be ok.......after all .....aren't we supposed to be immortal demigods? |

Rain6638
Team Evil
1026
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:34:00 -
[172] - Quote
while everyone is cheering for OP, has anyone realized this is one step closer to CCP selling items directly for money? it would be an extension of OP's logic [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

Malcolm Shinhwa
bad touches
436
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:36:00 -
[173] - Quote
This has to be the best SOMER reaction thread to date. Too bad I had to learn about it from Ripard's blog of all places. Why lock threads when you can send them to in-game events to die.
Good luck DNSBlack you magnificent bastard wherever you may be. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |

Rain6638
Team Evil
1026
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:38:00 -
[174] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote: Imagine all the dudes with titans doing a sanctioned cashout.
if that was inevitable, CCP would print Titans and sell them at a better price than you
you have 1 Gallente titan in the redeeming system [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:42:00 -
[175] - Quote
Whether this is allowed to happen or not there's no possible interpretation of the EULA that makes this OK. HTH. |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:49:00 -
[176] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Weaselior wrote:Also, CCP explicitly advertises GTC wholesalers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThis implicitly allows people to run their own GTC selling programs without official support because you're advertising wholesalers. The definition of wholesaler is that you buy from them for individual resale. Quote:please contact one of our authorized wholesalers Exactly! By authorizing wholesalers, you authorize resale of their goods by definition. indeed. a wholesaler sells to resellers, otherwise, they wouldn't be wholesalers, but retail outlets  |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
177
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:51:00 -
[177] - Quote
Rain6638 wrote:while everyone is cheering for OP, has anyone realized this is one step closer to CCP selling items directly for money? it would be an extension of OP's logic yes, we realize that. if they would just outright say that's they are going to do or allow others to do, it will make it a whole lot easier to either unsub my accounts or create my own site/service. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5349
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:54:00 -
[178] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:Whether this is allowed to happen or not there's no possible interpretation of the EULA that makes this OK. HTH. Given SOMER's example, it appears CCP disagrees! |

Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
457
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:54:00 -
[179] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:Whether this is allowed to happen or not there's no possible interpretation of the EULA that makes this OK. HTH.
That's exactly why CCP has been allowing Somer to do it for nearly half a decade, I suppose. |

Xaerael Endiel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:06:00 -
[180] - Quote
So, while this is being clarified, is CCP going to stop all ETC ISK laundering operations? |
|

Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
216
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:12:00 -
[181] - Quote
DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard.
Far as I can see, DNSBlack has done nothing Somer don't do when they give 'Somer credits' out with GTC sales.
CCP's only options are to either go after DNSBlack and Somer or allow both to happen. Sophie's Choice if ever there was one. Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall of CCP HQ in Reykjavik right around now. www.crossingzebras.com |

Rain6638
Team Evil
1028
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:16:00 -
[182] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Rain6638 wrote:while everyone is cheering for OP, has anyone realized this is one step closer to CCP selling items directly for money? it would be an extension of OP's logic yes, we realize that. if they would just outright say that's they are going to do or allow others to do, it will make it a whole lot easier to either unsub my accounts or create my own site/service. i doubt that, because it would've been mentioned already? what if CCP cut the red tape for everyone including themselves, and established a character cash-out and sale system? you can cash out according to an sp appraisal algorithm, and they sell your character for money at a slightly higher rate... assets and all, just sell the character "in place" [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4774
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:17:00 -
[183] - Quote
Dad, you said I could watch TV if I did the dishes.
Well I threatened my little sister into doing them so technically I got them done.
What do you mean I'm now grounded from the TV for a month? But you said...
It's funny how relying on loopholes to get what you want can back fire in your face when dealing with the folks who create the rules to begin with.
I wouldn't be surprised if a temporary ban was put in place on a certain account for a few months while this is "investigated". To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
398
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:23:00 -
[184] - Quote
So, If GTC's can't be sold for cash + Black credits, why can they be sold for cash + Blink credits.
This is very confusing... |

Dani Lizardov
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:28:00 -
[185] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Dad, you said I could watch TV if I did the dishes.
Well I threatened my little sister into doing them so technically I got them done.
What do you mean I'm now grounded from the TV for a month? But you said...
It's funny how relying on loopholes to get what you want can back fire in your face when dealing with the folks who create the rules to begin with.
I wouldn't be surprised if a temporary ban was put in place on a certain account for a few months while this is "investigated".
We all wait here to see that taking place!
No one is actually hopping for RMT to be legalized in this game.
I personally enjoy how CCP struggle to decide who the bad kid / kids are and how to punish them.  On the other hand i really want them to be punished for that.
|

Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:30:00 -
[186] - Quote
Here is what is really at stake for CCP:
If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. As CCP generates game currency that liability becomes larger and larger (ratting rewards, etc) The only way to recognize that on their financial statements is by accounting for it as either a cost or an impairment which would reduce their profitability. All players would become unsecured creditors of CCP. The status as a unsecured creditor and the requirement to carry it as a liability would probably continue even if the player stops his subscription. The only way out of that would be to irrevocably confiscate all isk and assets the moment your subscription lapses. This is a customer service nightmare to say the least.
In addition, they would probably have to register at least as a money agent, possibly even as a bank as they are adding to the money supply due to the fungible nature of their game currency.
Addressing this would completely disrupt the game economy at best, make CCP unprofitable at worst. This is a very bad outcome for everyone involved. It is imperative for CCP to make sure that their game currency has no real world value. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
400
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:33:00 -
[187] - Quote
Dani Lizardov wrote:I personally enjoy how CCP struggle to decide who the bad kid / kids are and how to punish them.  The problem is CCP really likes one of the bad kids (Somer) but doesn't like some of the other bad kids, like Black and Shai.
But apparently, its ok for Somer to give out ships for Somer credits, but it isn't ok for Shai to give out ships for Shai credits.
This really confuses me though... |

Charlith Kindred
Fluffles Inc. xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:35:00 -
[188] - Quote
Congratulations on the successful GTC sales.
How can CCP ban DNSBLACK? They have, after all, publicly endorsed Somer who has been doing this for however long.
This makes me want to re-sub my main account and cash out myself. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5352
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:40:00 -
[189] - Quote
Theng Hofses wrote:Here is what is really at stake for CCP:
If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. uh what
no
that would only be the case if CCP was the one who would pay you $$ for isk |

Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:57:00 -
[190] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Theng Hofses wrote:Here is what is really at stake for CCP:
If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. uh what no that would only be the case if CCP was the one who would pay you $$ for isk
The authorized PLEX reseller is an agent of CCP. You can make the argument that by allowing the piggy backing of other in-game value they willingly enabled the fungibility.
Funny enough, I found this one:
http://www.pillsburylaw.com/siteFiles/Media/files/Make%20Sure%20Your%20Virtual%20Currency%20Doesn't%20Enter%20Illegal%20Gambling%20Territory(1).pdf |
|

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2723
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:58:00 -
[191] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Theng Hofses wrote:Here is what is really at stake for CCP:
If players can convert game currency into real money in any CCP-sanction way then game money has received real world value. If it has real world value, all game currency must be carried on CCP's financial statements as a liability. uh what no that would only be the case if CCP was the one who would pay you $$ for isk I have to agree with Weaselior. You are way off on that. CCP already pays tax on the money they make selling GTCs, for example. The stock of GTCs has no value, though. ISK is already traded for real money and thus has value according to your statement... but you don't know how the tax laws apply here, clearly. You made that all up. If you could trade ISK for RL cash, the person sending you the money might get charged a sales tax or something. The person receiving the RL money would have to report that money as earned income. The ISK itself is virtual. It's not taxed. No country has laws that tax virtual items or play money.
|

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5354
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:06:00 -
[192] - Quote
the things you are saying make zero sense
ccp has to account for things like plex on their balance sheet. that's because they've contracted to redeem plex for game time, they are basically unused gift cards. each plex in existence is a promise to provide the holder with 30d of game time and is a liability
let's say ccp allows me to sell isk to you if I want and does not ban people for these sorts of transactions. does isk need to go on CCP's balance sheet? no, of course not: the amount of isk in existence is irrelevant to ccp's bottom line. i can do nothing with my isk that affects ccp's bottom line. they don't sell the isk, they don't buy the isk, nothing with isk touches ccp's bottom line
now, if they allowed free exchange between isk and $$ then yeah they land in all sorts of legal issues which are bad news. I'm not suggesting they do that, RMT would be bad news. but the issues are not accounting issues. even the issues you raised before about what happens if you unsub are easily dealt with by contract (the eula). |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2724
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:13:00 -
[193] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Dani Lizardov wrote:I personally enjoy how CCP struggle to decide who the bad kid / kids are and how to punish them.  The problem is CCP really likes one of the bad kids (Somer) but doesn't like some of the other bad kids, like Black and Shai. But apparently, its ok for Somer to give out ships for Somer credits, but it isn't ok for Shai to give out ships for Shai credits. Theng Hofses wrote:Here is what is really at stake for CCP:
*stuff* So why is it ok for Somer to do this thing, and not Shai 'Hulud. They're literally doing the exact same thing. This really confuses me ... It does seem unfair doesn't it? I still think there are only two four options for CCP.
- They can re-classify SOMER as a dec/CCP employee/whatever, because right now he is. In doing this his account would have the same restrictions applied to it the devs have.
- They legalize RMT... or at least let this raffle BS thing keep going on.
- They can Ban SOMER and everyone doing this.
- They can just tell everyone F off and ban people selective based on whether or not they like that player, as seems to be the status quo.
I don't care with regards to the top 3... pick any one. Don't care. I just want to see a level playing field. If it's not.. I don't see the point of EvE. It goes from being a game to being a frustrating hassle.
|

Powers Sa
693
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:17:00 -
[194] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard.
Far as I can see, DNSBlack has done nothing Somer don't do when they give 'Somer credits' out with GTC sales.
CCP's only options are to either go after DNSBlack and Somer or allow both to happen. Sophie's Choice if ever there was one. Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall of CCP HQ in Reykjavik right around now. Everytime someone threatens to quit, ccp can just link them to a sanctioned cashout gtc broker. lol |

Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:19:00 -
[195] - Quote
The key thing to remember here is Somer are NOT an authorised GTC reseller. They sell GTCs through Markee and Markee pays Somer a commission.
We don't know what % they make but it is likely to be around 5%. So Somer make a couple of bucks on each GTC sale without actually selling the GTCs themselves. That $ figure - whatever it is - is exchanged with the player for 'x' amount of Somer blink credit.
CCP knows this happens and this must be ok - hell, CCP gave Somer a fortune in gifts to auction off after all.
So Somer is exchanging $$ for Somer credits without being a reseller. DNSBlack has exchanged $$ for Black credits without being a reseller. I've got that all right, yes? www.crossingzebras.com |

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:19:00 -
[196] - Quote
Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled brats. |

DarkDecay
Real money traders
70
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:20:00 -
[197] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard.
DNSBlack, you magnificent, magnificent bastard.  |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
180
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:24:00 -
[198] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY  |

DarkDecay
Real money traders
72
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:27:00 -
[199] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:So Somer is exchanging $$ for Somer credits without being a reseller. DNSBlack has exchanged $$ for Black credits without being a reseller. I've got that all right, yes?
He did the same as me and used an official reseller to get the buyer his GTC.
We both used the somer defence of raffle and made up currency.
Where we differed was that he never seemed to ask for a massive $2500 for his GTC's and someone just offered it, while I set an actual price for the GTC of $105 instead of $35 that people could accept for a 'free' plex pack.
This could be the key point?
(will be posting something similar in main thread too)
|

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
175
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:28:00 -
[200] - Quote
This happens, there's no point in not selling everything.
There is now a perfectly legal way for every organization we've ever yelled at for allegedly doing RMT.. to now actually start doing RMT and laughing at CCP's face, the communities face, etc.
All Nullsec would basically turn into "Get out your ruining my actual cash" (well also wormholes, lowsec and highsec).
Lets see if CCP has completely given completely up.
Then again, this would be putting a face on RMT "and actually defining it for both CCP, the community, and the world.
I see Goons, the legions, all the botters, all the people who ever contemplated selling stuff, to magically come up with 1000 different "raffles" and selling everything they have in storage.
Character quitting, sell it Extra account, sell it.
This is not a good place for CCP. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
|

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:29:00 -
[201] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY 
The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. |

Shai 'Hulud
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:34:00 -
[202] - Quote
I just want to know wtf is so wrong with "shai tickets" 
Oh right ... the word SOMER is not mentioned in the name. I get it now. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |

Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:38:00 -
[203] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY  The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.
You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years? |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
403
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:40:00 -
[204] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.
What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP.
When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened. Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish? |

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:45:00 -
[205] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY  The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years?
You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it. |

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:46:00 -
[206] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:
The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.
What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP. When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened. Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish?
I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest |

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:51:00 -
[207] - Quote
Because Somer
A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?
I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.
|

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:52:00 -
[208] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:Kazanir wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers. FTFY  The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you. You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years? You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it. I mean as the former head of security, who took several public actions to curb botting and RMT I could see where your old job description would not have covered dismantling a scheme to convert real life money into isk
but I have never worked at CCP nor am I familiar with their orgchart so you can have a gimmie on this one This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2728
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:54:00 -
[209] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Because Somer
A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?
I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.
It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP.
|

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
181
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:55:00 -
[210] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:
The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.
What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP. When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened. Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish? I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest eve players are just particularly bad i haven't seen much or any of that happen yet. unless ''calling for people's jobs'' means threatening to unsub if they **** in the sandbox. which is our legitimate right as customers to do. |
|

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:57:00 -
[211] - Quote
Querns wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:
You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it.
I mean as the former head of security, who took several public actions to curb botting and RMT I could see where your old job description would not have covered dismantling a scheme to convert real life money into isk but I have never worked at CCP nor am I familiar with their orgchart so you can have a gimmie on this one
I'm a bit curious honestly how long the GTC component's been in play because I would have had an issue with that if I knew about it. I always thought they were just a pure isk lottery. If it's been in play for a long time then hehehehe.
:Edit: though the more I think about it... this is just a referral program which everyone's always been cool with. It's even used on a lot of alliance forums. In the case of this OP it's just being openly gamed, which is where that crosses the line. |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
183
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:58:00 -
[212] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Because Somer
A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?
I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.
i'm sure they've made thousands of dollars through those plex sales throughout the years. lots of people buy through them, and it's for the free 200m credit. i don't oppose them doing this btw, i have no problem with Somer making real money. i do have a problem with CCP playing favourites. either we all can do it, or somer deserves a ban. there can't be a middle ground... erm... 'grey area' |

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:58:00 -
[213] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Darius JOHNSON wrote:
The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.
What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP. When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened. Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish? I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest eve players are just particularly bad i haven't seen much or any of that happen yet. unless ''calling for people's jobs'' means threatening to unsub if they **** in the sandbox. which is our legitimate right as customers to do.
f5 faster, read facebook, read twitter
You're seeing the "polite" portions of the conversation |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
406
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:59:00 -
[214] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest
TBH I haven't seen too much of that in this thread, but in general your probably right, it is a problem. But not a problem unique to Eve, or this particular topic at hand.
The way I see it, CCP has two options. Ban or otherwise punish the practice at large (and ALL those that practiced it), everyone should be held equal before the same rule set.
Or, allow this option of "cashing" out. Not that novel really. People pay plex to buy/sell characters in Eve, a tithe to CCP. Trading characters is bannable in other MMO's too. So allow this form of "cashing out" via GTC, a tithe to CCP. "Cashing out" is a forbidden practice in other MMO's as well. Someone quitting eve? Direct them to an accredited "transition agent."
Whatever CCP chooses to do, they should treat everyone equally. If Somer is allowed to do this, let all do this. If DNSBlack and Shai 'Hulud are punished for doing this, punish Somer for doing the exact same thing for years.
Equality before the same rule set. Nothing more, nothing less is all we ask. |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
183
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:01:00 -
[215] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote: f5 faster, read facebook, read twitter
You're seeing the "polite" portions of the conversation
i don't do facebook or twitter. i don't even like the forums usually. i'm just here because this **** is unfair and hurts my gameplay. the dev is literally showering my competition with gifts that in turn devalue the worth of my own assets. i can't be a trader if i have to work for mines while others get free dev spawns. |

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:04:00 -
[216] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Moira Ayindi wrote:Because Somer
A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?
I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.
It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP.
Between having a website (frm 0$ up to 16.000$) and running a high traffic website you can accumulate very fast some very big bills.
Th problem with all the accusations agais t Somer is that we don't hav any numbers. And the few bloggers who tried to do that were really ****** up. Never played Somer , were biased or just stupid.
But all these people are quick with accusation and even worse, with judging o.O
Hopefully CCP will investigate Somer a little bit closer . Perhaps an audit? XD |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
408
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:09:00 -
[217] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote: In the case of this OP it's just being openly gamed, which is where that crosses the line. How is it any different then what blink did? Blink has raffled off unique ships for Blink Credits before, on many occasions. Blink credits can be acquired through purchasing GTCs from Somer via Markee. Somer makes $$ off this transaction, and the ships are given in exchange for blink credits.
Shai 'Hulud did the exact. same. thing. Ships in exchange for Shai credits acquired by purchasing GTC. It is the exact same model. If you cry foul, then establish a strict criteria and hold ALL to the same criteria. And make no mistake, Somer has made thousands of dollars off of Blink credits for GTC referrals. |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
185
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:12:00 -
[218] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Gogela wrote:Moira Ayindi wrote:Because Somer
A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?
I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.
It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP. Between having a website (frm 0$ up to 16.000$) and running a high traffic website you can accumulate very fast some very big bills. Th problem with all the accusations agais t Somer is that we don't hav any numbers. And the few bloggers who tried to do that were really ****** up. Never played Somer , were biased or just stupid. But all these people are quick with accusation and even worse, with judging o.O Hopefully CCP will investigate Somer a little bit closer . Perhaps an audit? XD
let's get this straight: their bills have nothing to do with what's going on here. they are a for-profit business, everything they do is to gain isk and directly benefit themselves. even if they do sponsor in-game events, one could argue that is advertisement and not necessarily altruistic behavior.
if they cannot afford to pay for their bills on their own, they don't need to operate.
if they are allowed to profit from their affiliate sales + blink credit bonuses, i have no problem with that at all, as long as i can do it too. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2731
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:14:00 -
[219] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Gogela wrote:Moira Ayindi wrote:Because Somer
A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar B) CCP is getting a share C) they are atleast trying to hide it D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?
I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.
It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP. Between having a website (frm 0$ up to 16.000$) and running a high traffic website you can accumulate very fast some very big bills. Th problem with all the accusations agais t Somer is that we don't hav any numbers. And the few bloggers who tried to do that were really ****** up. Never played Somer , were biased or just stupid. But all these people are quick with accusation and even worse, with judging o.O Hopefully CCP will investigate Somer a little bit closer . Perhaps an audit? XD High traffic sites can be somewhat of a drain on operating costs... but only if you have no idea what you are doing will you not come out on top. SOMER is pretty sharp. He knows what he's doing. Something as small as an adsense/adwords block will not only offset traffic costs, but start to generate passive income for equipment maintenance or whatever. You throw in affiliate links and stand the feck by because you can do really well. I know a guy who runs some blogs and other sites that pulled in 70k in one month from his affiliate links in July. One month! He's a lot smarter and more accomplished than me, but you see what is possible.
|

Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
467
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:21:00 -
[220] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it.
Darius JOHNSON wrote:I'm a bit curious honestly how long the GTC component's been in play because I would have had an issue with that if I knew about it. I always thought they were just a pure isk lottery. If it's been in play for a long time then hehehehe.
:Edit: though the more I think about it... this is just a referral program which everyone's always been cool with. It's even used on a lot of alliance forums. In the case of this OP it's just being openly gamed, which is where that crosses the line.
You are pretty quick to say that ~this community~ isn't informed on a particular topic just two posts before you then admit that you didn't actually know of the issue under discussion...
The GTC "component" of Blink has been in place for at least 3 years, and probably longer. Somer is gaming it just as openly as the OP is by offering Blink credits for GTC purchases. They are doing it in a "smaller" way (less $/ISK amount per transaction) but at a much greater scale.
No matter what you or anyone *says* about the EULA, it is only as good as what CCP enforces it to be -- and like it or not, CCP has been allowing this loophole to persist to the tune of many years and a great deal of money.
This thread might annoy various people by employing satire to point this out, but such is life. |
|

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:38:00 -
[221] - Quote
Gogela wrote:[quote=Moira Ayindi][quote=Gogela][quote=Moira Ayindi] High traffic sites can be somewhat of a drain on operating costs... but only if you have no idea what you are doing will you not come out on top. SOMER is pretty sharp. He knows what he's doing. Something as small as an adsense/adwords block will not only offset traffic costs, but start to generate passive income for equipment maintenance or whatever. You throw in affiliate links and stand the feck by because you can do really well. I know a guy who runs some blogs and other sites that pulled in 70k in one month from his affiliate links in July. One month! He's a lot smarter and more accomplished than me, but you see what is possible.
But Somer doesn't have any advertisment on their site. So the only money they are getting is from the GTC . Which can't be that much. Markee Dragon is getting his share and CCP is getting the big one. 2$ per GTC sold over Somer seems like a reasonable value . Would be several houndred dollars per month for Somer.
|

Shai 'Hulud
136
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:45:00 -
[222] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:No matter what you or anyone *says* about the EULA, it is only as good as what CCP enforces it to be -- and like it or not, CCP has been allowing this loophole to persist to the tune of many years and a great deal of money. And I get direct threats for trying to do what SOMER has been doing for years...
Perhaps I should tout my 'community service' credentials: - I have also sponsored alliance tournament teams, just like SOMER. - I have made the majority of my ISK by taking it from other players, just like SOMER. - I have assisted CCP on their balance sheet (by melting plex http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12756712), just like SOMER.
It seems the criteria for receiving favoritism is more than just community service... All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:50:00 -
[223] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote:[quote=Kazanir]
It seems the criteria for receiving favoritism is more than just community service...
Of course, being an awesome community service helps 
. . . . . I wonder if Somer is getting more or less costumers by these threads 
|

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2736
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:50:00 -
[224] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Gogela wrote:[quote=Moira Ayindi][quote=Gogela][quote=Moira Ayindi] High traffic sites can be somewhat of a drain on operating costs... but only if you have no idea what you are doing will you not come out on top. SOMER is pretty sharp. He knows what he's doing. Something as small as an adsense/adwords block will not only offset traffic costs, but start to generate passive income for equipment maintenance or whatever. You throw in affiliate links and stand the feck by because you can do really well. I know a guy who runs some blogs and other sites that pulled in 70k in one month from his affiliate links in July. One month! He's a lot smarter and more accomplished than me, but you see what is possible. But Somer doesn't have any advertisment on their site. So the only money they are getting is from the GTC . Which can't be that much. Markee Dragon is getting his share and CCP is getting the big one. 2$ per GTC sold over Somer seems like a reasonable value . Would be several houndred dollars per month for Somer. ...and why would SOMER not put in adwords ads? You think that just slipped his mind or it never occurred to him? That HE is so dedicated to having a clean aesthetic to the site? Maybe he just hates money?
That's insane.
I can't read his mind, but I'll tell you what my thinking would be in his shoes:
I don't want my users thinking about how I pull RL income from this site. I want them to be as oblivious as possible to the RL money side of things for 2 reasons: 1) It's a gambling site, so it's in my interest to make people disassociate their SOMER credits from RL money as much as possible. This is the same reason you play with "chips" instead of cash in any casino in the world. 2) I don't want my players thinking about how I can make money on my site and they cannot do the same. This is a good gravy train I'm running and I don't want it going off the tracks. Also: I'm making so much off the affiliate links that other ad blocks wouldn't be valuable enough to pay for the space they'd need allotted on the site. Finally, part of the service I provide my clients is extending the immersive experience of EvE out of the game. I do my users a disservice by breaking the immersiveness with ads.
|

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
187
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:52:00 -
[225] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Gogela wrote:[quote=Moira Ayindi][quote=Gogela][quote=Moira Ayindi] High traffic sites can be somewhat of a drain on operating costs... but only if you have no idea what you are doing will you not come out on top. SOMER is pretty sharp. He knows what he's doing. Something as small as an adsense/adwords block will not only offset traffic costs, but start to generate passive income for equipment maintenance or whatever. You throw in affiliate links and stand the feck by because you can do really well. I know a guy who runs some blogs and other sites that pulled in 70k in one month from his affiliate links in July. One month! He's a lot smarter and more accomplished than me, but you see what is possible. But Somer doesn't have any advertisment on their site. So the only money they are getting is from the GTC . Which can't be that much. Markee Dragon is getting his share and CCP is getting the big one. 2$ per GTC sold over Somer seems like a reasonable value . Would be several houndred dollars per month for Somer. that's 'several houndred dollars per month for Somer' too much. if they can do it, let everyone else. if not, put a stop to it. either way, the playing field needs to be level. and if bans are going around, it looks like Somer would be the most deserving of them all.
free Shai or surrender Somer. there is no grey area.  |

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
187
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:54:00 -
[226] - Quote
Gogela wrote: ...and why would SOMER not put in adwords ads? You think that just slipped his mind or it never occurred to him? That HE is so dedicated to having a clean aesthetic to the site? Maybe he just hates money?
That's insane.
I can't read his mind, but I'll tell you what my thinking would be in his shoes:
I don't want my users thinking about how I pull RL income from this site. I want them to be as oblivious as possible to the RL money side of things for 2 reasons: 1) It's a gambling site, so it's in my interest to make people disassociate their SOMER credits from RL money as much as possible. This is the same reason you play with "chips" instead of cash in any casino in the world. 2) I don't want my players thinking about how I can make money on my site and they cannot do the same. This is a good gravy train I'm running and I don't want it going off the tracks. Also: I'm making so much off the affiliate links that other ad blocks wouldn't be valuable enough to pay for the space they'd need allotted on the site. Finally, part of the service I provide my clients is extending the immersive experience of EvE out of the game. I do my users a disservice by breaking the immersiveness with ads.
nailed it on the head |

Rain6638
Team Evil
1031
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:14:00 -
[227] - Quote
just for fun, consider the scenario where OP is an alt of CCP and this is a ruse to get players on board with a change in character sales, where they broker characters themselves. how easy you would be played, and predictable in your temper. if you were offered a 75% cash-out that was fast & easy, would you take it? giving players a cash-out would be a refund, and buying a character would be a subscription package. [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:20:00 -
[228] - Quote
Gogela wrote:
...and why would SOMER not put in adwords ads? You think that just slipped his mind or it never occurred to him? That HE is so dedicated to having a clean aesthetic to the site? Maybe he just hates money?
That's insane.
Since when are adwords ads forbidden or wrong? Did you ever visited Chribbas sites? Or Battleclinic? And if Somer is really making so much money with Google, then they really don't need the GTC's ;-)
Money Makin Mitch wrote:free Shai or surrender Somer. there is no grey area. 
But Somer can be played with real money. I can play the tutorial, get some ISK and start playing some Blinks. If you are lucky you can get your first billion with a really low investment. The 200Millions are just a bonus. Shai doesn't let you the choice.
So, there you have your grey area. Which shouldn't be there. Easy solution, Somer should stopping giving free Credits with the GTC. I mean, you get enough from the achievements and free promos. If you are addicted -> buy a plex.
|

Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
175
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:42:00 -
[229] - Quote
Or maybe just shutdown the whole GTC racket......
CCP gave people a method of making money out of game. I suspect it was just to keep them creating ingame content but not have to worry about paying for server costs....
Well now that's turned into a way to make real money, and now a way to sell real items
And yes Somer Blink does provide "content". That does not mean that they should be "exempted" or "overlooked" regarding the rules because they play nice.
I give to the community, but I also make a mint by doing it. Yes its against the rules but without me, you'll upset the community.
Its not a catch 22..
Its business. What would normally get someone banned, there stuff confiscated and such, large entities like SOMER can merely say "oh sorry", and there let off the hook.
A single person with no influence does the same thing.. instant ban.
There is no equality, even in the slightest.
Now to be honest, there should not be (and there is not). There are the haves and have nots, and the haves are the ones who give to the system in ways people like, and by doing that, are allowed to "bend" or even "break" the rules.
It sucks, it will continue to happen because there are those people who will take a risk and try something new. The pushback from the community is not that someone just made some money.
The pushback is that someone Just Bought something with real life cash, in a game where everybody started at 0. The field was equal with no outside influence. If you made money, its because you earned it, built it from scratch, or got it from others, without resorting to the real life influence of cash that you may or maynot have.
In this game (as with most), the person IRL, regardless of there status, could become a strong, wealthy, influential person, and it did not matter if they had the cash IRL or not. Now that creation of a person is being subverted by in-world cash.
A person logs into the game, spends $5,000 and gains a bunch of accounts/characters/equipment etc, we all say that ain't fair.
Honestly I could care less about the person making the money, because if so be it, I'll go shoot them because whenever I disrupt what they do, its there pocket I'm disrupting, and hell it makes me feel better to hurt someone in a game, which actually hurt them financially because they believed they could use this to make a buck.
Its the people who have no clue (or have a clue), go out and BUY this stuff with IRL cash. Frak your capabilities in the game, here's some cash, give me a character to fly this thing. If I lose it, here's more cash give me another.
THAT I don't like. The image of equality and hard work just got destroyed because some person had an extra $20,000 laying around the house and decided to buy there way into the "end game".
Its a bit backwards to say I don't care about the sellers, but the injustice comes from the people who decide to influence the game by using there money to "make it work", rather than work for it ingame to make it work.
Sellers are scum, buyers are scum, shoot them all.
My rant is over.
Don't melt down and do what other game companies are doing now "buying characters, selling equipment".
And don't bend back and forth on the rulesets, or make these glaring exceptions for the "elite people", and turn what should be a fictional exploration and escape into just Real Life Version 2.0, with the same inequalities present that people play this game just to get away from.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|

Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4251
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:49:00 -
[230] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote: I'm a bit curious honestly how long the GTC component's been in play because I would have had an issue with that if I knew about it. I always thought they were just a pure isk lottery. If it's been in play for a long time then hehehehe.
:Edit: though the more I think about it... this is just a referral program which everyone's always been cool with. It's even used on a lot of alliance forums. In the case of this OP it's just being openly gamed, which is where that crosses the line.
It is very different than the alliance forums links because Somer is giving people direct value. Many alliances had an affiliate link up to help cover server costs, but they didn't (openly at least) give people ISK equivalents for buying from that link. I don't have any problem with Somer having that link, it is the giving people blink credits for buying from it that is the issue. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
|
|

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
189
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 23:06:00 -
[231] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote: Since when are adwords ads forbidden or wrong? Did you ever visited Chribbas sites? Or Battleclinic?
nobody said ads were wrong or forbidden. if they run the site, they can do what they want pay for it. Gogela's reasoning worked quite well at explaining why Somer might not need or want ads even though they work for others.
Moira Ayindi wrote: And if Somer is really making so much money with Google, then they really don't need the GTC's ;-)
we're not the ones to say how much Somer is making with any kind of advertising or affiliate program, and we don't decide how much they 'need'. typically though, human behavior will gravitate towards greed. the possibility that they may making tons of money from cookies and such has nothing to do with if they need the GTC sales or not.
they put the GTC affiliate link there to make RL money off each sale, plain and simple. that's what affiliate programs do. they added the 200mil blink credit to make their affiliate link more attractive than the other guys, because everyone seems to be selling at the same price in cash, so what difference is there aside from the blink bonus if you want to be competitive?
they are in effect giving players isk to get the cut of profit made from the GTC through the affilate program. they are making tons of isk hand over fist from people depositing isk and losing, so they already have a huge surplus of isk to work with, so why not use that isk to draw in the sales that make RL cash? after all, there's only so much you can do with isk in the game, after a certain point it becomes meaningless.
Moira Ayindi wrote: But Somer can be played with real money.
exactly. somer is played using isk, just the same as you play pvp by using isk for your ship/fittings or putting up buy/sell orders/contracts for market warfare.
Moira Ayindi wrote: So, there you have your grey area. Which shouldn't be there. Easy solution, Somer should stopping giving free Credits with the GTC. I mean, you get enough from the achievements and free promos. If you are addicted -> buy a plex.
pretty much. and if Somer doesn't need to stop doing this, that means everyone else should be allowed to do it as well. |

Rain6638
Team Evil
1032
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 23:09:00 -
[232] - Quote
including CCP? [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

Frying Doom
2738
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 23:10:00 -
[233] - Quote
Two step wrote: I don't have any problem with Somer having that link, it is the giving people blink credits for buying from it that is the issue. Same here. It is RMT pure and simple. The GTC its self is perfectly legit advertising.
Either everyone should be allowed to RMT (Bad idea) or NO ONE should. Hiding it behind a laundering operation still makes it RMT. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
94
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 00:09:00 -
[234] - Quote
If Somer had ads, then this guy (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287751&find=unread) would find a link between Somer's ISK profit per hour to their advert $ profit per hour and there would be more rabble. .
|

Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 00:16:00 -
[235] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Listen to this man. Coming from New Jersey he knows all about things that are toxic and disgusting. |

DNS Guerrilla
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 01:20:00 -
[236] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:The first CCP employee who gets it. Thank you for unlocking my thread to profit off the new business model of CCP. Hey let me buy you a new ISW with my free blink credits
Boss,
I think you mean new BLACK credits.
DNS G
|

Kast Agnet
The Nexus 7's
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 04:04:00 -
[237] - Quote
Something else pointing to the "Somer Caught Red Handed" idea is the LACK of Andrev Nox.
Anything pertaining to Blink of a negative nature in the past has always been attacked by him usually with massive stats, vitriolic statements, Somer bans handed left right and centre and where is he now?
Where are you Andrev? We all know you are the main face of Blink really and are never backwards in coming forwards usually? Stunned into silence or just "We got made! There's nothing to say."? |

Brutal Wyrm
A Powerful Lowsec Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 04:07:00 -
[238] - Quote
Kast Agnet wrote:Something else pointing to the "Somer Caught Red Handed" idea is the LACK of Andrev Nox.
Anything pertaining to Blink of a negative nature in the past has always been attacked by him usually with massive stats, vitriolic statements, Somer bans handed left right and centre and where is he now?
Where are you Andrev? We all know you are the main face of Blink really and are never backwards in coming forwards usually? Stunned into silence or just "We got made! There's nothing to say."?
he's probably enjoyin himself in vegas, because as was advertised MANY times, he would be at EVE Vegas handing out free stuffs. |

Kast Agnet
The Nexus 7's
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 04:14:00 -
[239] - Quote
Brutal Wyrm wrote:
he's probably enjoyin himself in vegas, because as was advertised MANY times, he would be at EVE Vegas handing out free stuffs.
Why would I know that and why would I follow his agenda? And if he's on what is essentially a business trip anyway, then you can be damn sure he's up to speed on what may or may not affect that business image in a one-to-many setting. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5363
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 06:13:00 -
[240] - Quote
Kast Agnet wrote:Something else pointing to the "Somer Caught Red Handed" idea is the LACK of Andrev Nox.
Anything pertaining to Blink of a negative nature in the past has always been attacked by him usually with massive stats, vitriolic statements, Somer bans handed left right and centre and where is he now?
Where are you Andrev? We all know you are the main face of Blink really and are never backwards in coming forwards usually? Stunned into silence or just "We got made! There's nothing to say."? to be fair the In-Game Events and Gatherings forum is basically the 3am timeslot of forums
he may just not have noticed |
|

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5363
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 06:14:00 -
[241] - Quote
give it three years and there's a 50% chance he will stumble on this thread |

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:22:00 -
[242] - Quote
And why should he reply? Free advertisement for his site 
I still think that the gamers here are overreacting to the 200million bonus for GTC. You could of course say it is a grey area because the 200mill SomerCredits are a "cheap" advertisement which can't be easily reproduced by another alliance forums or Battleclinic (you not only get SomerCredit but also Tokens which can be used in free promos and where you could gain several billions ISK) and that they can converted to 80% ISK. If you and your connection is fast enough 
Mmmh. Would it be RMT if the GFC decides that in their forums you can only post pictures/have a signature/smilys if you buy a GTC from their affiliate link?  |

Rain6638
Team Evil
1033
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:24:00 -
[243] - Quote
the REAL question is: can Markee Dragon be banned for RMT if he buys GTCs from himself [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

Dani Lizardov
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:27:00 -
[244] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:.... Mmmh. Would it be RMT if the GFC decides that in their forums you can only post pictures/have a signature/smilys if you buy a GTC from their affiliate link? 
NO! Because they will not sell isk or items
Quote:you not only get SomerCredit but also Tokens which can be used in free promos and where you could gain several billions ISK
Exactly what DNS Black did. He gave tickets for a raffle to those who both GTC from him.
|

Rain6638
Team Evil
1033
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:29:00 -
[245] - Quote
I'm sorry. every time someone says 'promos' I read it as something else [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |

E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
55
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:41:00 -
[246] - Quote
interesting stuff |

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:48:00 -
[247] - Quote
Dani Lizardov wrote:Moira Ayindi wrote:.... Mmmh. Would it be RMT if the GFC decides that in their forums you can only post pictures/have a signature/smilys if you buy a GTC from their affiliate link?  NO! Because they will not sell isk or items But they alliance only exists because of Eve. Somer doesn't give ISK or tiems. Quote:you not only get SomerCredit but also Tokens which can be used in free promos and where you could gain several billions ISK Exactly what DNS Black did. He gave tickets for a raffle to those who both GTC from him.
That is not true. DNS Black raffle a) wasn't fair and b) sold the GTC directly and overpriced ;-)
|

Dani Lizardov
Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:56:00 -
[248] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:[
That is not true. DNS Black raffle a) wasn't fair and b) sold the GTC directly and overpriced ;-)
Wasn't fare ? Can you prove that ? Can you prove that sommer is fair ?
Overpriced :) well tell that to the guy who both it. Overpricing broke the EULA... Really?
|

Frying Doom
2746
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:43:00 -
[249] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:And why should he reply? Free advertisement for his site  I still think that the gamers here are overreacting to the 200million bonus for GTC. You could of course say it is a grey area because the 200mill SomerCredits are a "cheap" advertisement which can't be easily reproduced by another alliance forums or Battleclinic (you not only get SomerCredit but also Tokens which can be used in free promos and where you could gain several billions ISK) and that they can converted to 80% ISK. If you and your connection is fast enough  Mmmh. Would it be RMT if the GFC decides that in their forums you can only post pictures/have a signature/smilys if you buy a GTC from their affiliate link?  the 200 mil bonus Somer Credits are RMT. No ifs buts or maybes and no matter what the laundering process.
As to posting on the forums and having to buy a GTC, no that is not RMT, as you are not converting Cash to isk, or isk to Cash Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

pmota
the muppets DARKNESS.
26
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:36:00 -
[250] - Quote
I would like to state that if Somer can do this, then everyone can do this. Thank you DNSBlack for pointing that out, I personaly applaud you.
Unless CCP decides otherwise regarding Somer Blink, I see no reason why everyone wouldn't start a Somer Blink clone and in some way getting some $ out of Eve. Not saying it's right or wrong: just making it crystal clear that RULES ARE FOR ALL.
As someone who never used a macro, bot, RMT, or exploit (yes, I'm that dumb), please count me as +1 asking CCP to make a CRYSTAL CLEAR STATEMENT on this. I'm 100% that's want DNS wants too. RULES APPLIED TO EVERYONE, not some smart 4ss making money of out isk.
|
|

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:57:00 -
[251] - Quote
pmota wrote: please count me as +1 asking CCP to make a CRYSTAL CLEAR STATEMENT on this. I'm 100% that's want DNS wants too. RULES APPLIED TO EVERYONE, not some smart 4ss making money of out isk.
True.
We should start betting on the outcome  |

Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
222
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:16:00 -
[252] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Dani Lizardov wrote:Moira Ayindi wrote:.... Mmmh. Would it be RMT if the GFC decides that in their forums you can only post pictures/have a signature/smilys if you buy a GTC from their affiliate link?  NO! Because they will not sell isk or items But they alliance only exists because of Eve. Somer doesn't give ISK or tiems. Quote:you not only get SomerCredit but also Tokens which can be used in free promos and where you could gain several billions ISK Exactly what DNS Black did. He gave tickets for a raffle to those who both GTC from him. That is not true. DNS Black raffle a) wasn't fair and b) sold the GTC directly and overpriced ;-)
Please explain why a) it wasn't fair. One person 'bought' 2500 tickets and as such had a 2500/2501 chance of winning. The other person bought one ticket and had a 1/2501 chance if winning. If you buy more tickets to a raffle or lottery, you have more chance of winning. Please clarify why it wasn't fair - would love to hear it.
After that, please explain b) where it states anywhere - EULA, TOS or otherwise - what you must charge for a GTC? Presumably you can charge what you like and being an open market, people will buy GTCs from whoever is selling as close to cost. A self-regulating market with no need to dictate what people charge.
So yeah, basically you are totally wrong on both counts. www.crossingzebras.com |

Shai 'Hulud
143
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:00:00 -
[253] - Quote
pmota wrote:I would like to state that if Somer can do this, then everyone can do this. Thank you DNSBlack for pointing that out, I personaly applaud you.
Unless CCP decides otherwise regarding Somer Blink, I see no reason why everyone wouldn't start a Somer Blink clone and in some way getting some $ out of Eve. Not saying it's right or wrong: just making it crystal clear that RULES ARE FOR ALL.
As someone who never used a macro, bot, RMT, or exploit (yes, I'm that dumb), please count me as +1 asking CCP to make a CRYSTAL CLEAR STATEMENT on this. I'm 100% that's want DNS wants too. RULES APPLIED TO EVERYONE, not some smart 4ss making money of out isk.
I would agree with fair application of the rules, but that is not the case here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=287581&find=unread All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |

Shai 'Hulud
143
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:10:00 -
[254] - Quote
Another example of CCP favoritism towards SOMER.
So let's recap: - SOMER was gifted a total of around 5 trillion ISK worth of in-game items. - SOMER is being allowed to continue RMT that I and others have been told we cannot do. - SOMER's legitimacy as a fair business operation has been personally guaranteed by CCP.
It is becoming clear that a different set of rules apply to SOMER than those that are applied to the rest of us.
Do we even need to wonder why CCP chose to give SOMER so much free stuff and proclaim them to be the greatest thing in EVE? Here's the data I want to see: affiliate sales numbers for the last year. I suspect CCP has very good reason to like SOMER so much.
Only SOMER is allowed to inhabit the gray area. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |

Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:30:00 -
[255] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote:Another example of CCP favoritism towards SOMER.
So let's recap: - SOMER was gifted a total of around 5 trillion ISK worth of in-game items. - SOMER is being allowed to continue RMT that I and others have been told we cannot do. - SOMER's legitimacy as a fair business operation has been personally guaranteed by CCP.
It is becoming clear that a different set of rules apply to SOMER than those that are applied to the rest of us.
Do we even need to wonder why CCP chose to give SOMER so much free stuff and proclaim them to be the greatest thing in EVE? Here's the data I want to see: affiliate sales numbers for the last year. I suspect CCP has very good reason to like SOMER so much.
Only SOMER is allowed to inhabit the gray area.
And why not? Effort should be rewarded. Somer is the 1%  |

Shai 'Hulud
143
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:46:00 -
[256] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Shai 'Hulud wrote:Another example of CCP favoritism towards SOMER.
So let's recap: - SOMER was gifted a total of around 5 trillion ISK worth of in-game items. - SOMER is being allowed to continue RMT that I and others have been told we cannot do. - SOMER's legitimacy as a fair business operation has been personally guaranteed by CCP.
It is becoming clear that a different set of rules apply to SOMER than those that are applied to the rest of us.
Do we even need to wonder why CCP chose to give SOMER so much free stuff and proclaim them to be the greatest thing in EVE? Here's the data I want to see: affiliate sales numbers for the last year. I suspect CCP has very good reason to like SOMER so much.
Only SOMER is allowed to inhabit the gray area. And why not? Effort should be rewarded. Somer is the 1%  If they manage to inhabit unique game areas through game mechanics, I agree with you. We are not talking about fair use a game mechanics here though. We are talking about clear favoritism from CCP toward an in-game entity. It's a LOT easier to profit off a lottery when you get to play by a different set of rules than everyone else. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |

Frying Doom
2748
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 21:16:00 -
[257] - Quote
Moira Ayindi wrote:Shai 'Hulud wrote:Another example of CCP favoritism towards SOMER.
So let's recap: - SOMER was gifted a total of around 5 trillion ISK worth of in-game items. - SOMER is being allowed to continue RMT that I and others have been told we cannot do. - SOMER's legitimacy as a fair business operation has been personally guaranteed by CCP.
It is becoming clear that a different set of rules apply to SOMER than those that are applied to the rest of us.
Do we even need to wonder why CCP chose to give SOMER so much free stuff and proclaim them to be the greatest thing in EVE? Here's the data I want to see: affiliate sales numbers for the last year. I suspect CCP has very good reason to like SOMER so much.
Only SOMER is allowed to inhabit the gray area. And why not? Effort should be rewarded. Somer is the 1%  So for profit businesses that CCP choose should be allowed to break the rules but no one else is allowed too or do you believe that any one who makes an effort sgould be allowed to RMT?
If CCP wants to say clearly that Somer is allowed to RMT because it made an effort, I am sure the players would rightfully laugh in their face and unsub. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

DarkDecay
Real money traders
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 21:44:00 -
[258] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Moira Ayindi wrote:Shai 'Hulud wrote:Another example of CCP favoritism towards SOMER.
So let's recap: - SOMER was gifted a total of around 5 trillion ISK worth of in-game items. - SOMER is being allowed to continue RMT that I and others have been told we cannot do. - SOMER's legitimacy as a fair business operation has been personally guaranteed by CCP.
It is becoming clear that a different set of rules apply to SOMER than those that are applied to the rest of us.
Do we even need to wonder why CCP chose to give SOMER so much free stuff and proclaim them to be the greatest thing in EVE? Here's the data I want to see: affiliate sales numbers for the last year. I suspect CCP has very good reason to like SOMER so much.
Only SOMER is allowed to inhabit the gray area. And why not? Effort should be rewarded. Somer is the 1%  So for profit businesses that CCP choose should be allowed to break the rules but no one else is allowed too or do you believe that any one who makes an effort sgould be allowed to RMT? If CCP wants to say clearly that Somer is allowed to RMT because it made an effort, I am sure the players would rightfully laugh in their face and unsub.
It seems it is more along the lines of it is ok for somer plus their other rmt partner to turn one billion ISK into $15 to $24 as long as CCP makes eleven times as much form it. |

Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 22:30:00 -
[259] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:]Please explain why a) it wasn't fair. One person 'bought' 2500 tickets and as such had a 2500/2501 chance of winning. The other person bought one ticket and had a 1/2501 chance if winning. If you buy more tickets to a raffle or lottery, you have more chance of winning. Please clarify why it wasn't fair - would love to hear it.
Why bother doing 2500/2501? Just do 1/2 and always make #1 win, CCP have no way to prove it wasn't random in the same way they don't with Sommer. Always buy ticket #2 with an alt. Customer gets all the ISK they paid for no risk.
Don't bother with true random selection when there is no need to. This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |

Jordanna Bauer
Mafia Redux Phobia.
46
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 23:08:00 -
[260] - Quote
I find this loophole to be both entertaining and necessary. I agree that Blink needs to be brought into line with the rest of us in terms of the rules. |
|

Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
87
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 00:56:00 -
[261] - Quote
It would be nice to have an official response on this.
It should be perfectly legal as it's not remotely as malicious as what somer does on a daily basis. However, as we all experienced in recent events, CCP obviously applies double standards when it comes to somer.
I'd like to raffle 3 characters totaling 290 mill SP including a couple of HG pirate implant clones and ~150 bill worth in assets and isk.
I'd just like some reassurance CCP believe themselves to be as legit as somer before setting the package up. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2739
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 03:06:00 -
[262] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote:Another example of CCP favoritism towards SOMER.
So let's recap: - SOMER was gifted a total of around 5 trillion ISK worth of in-game items. - SOMER is being allowed to continue RMT that I and others have been told we cannot do. - SOMER's legitimacy as a fair business operation has been personally guaranteed by CCP.
It is becoming clear that a different set of rules apply to SOMER than those that are applied to the rest of us.
Do we even need to wonder why CCP chose to give SOMER so much free stuff and proclaim them to be the greatest thing in EVE? Here's the data I want to see: affiliate sales numbers for the last year. I suspect CCP has very good reason to like SOMER so much.
Only SOMER is allowed to inhabit the gray area. Well... that's what this thread is about isn't it? CCP actively directing the fundamental gameplay... if it's not a level chessboard they will loose half their subs at least. I'm not going to unsub... but I plex my play. What do I care? I could plex out 100 years right now if so inclined. ...but the game itself has been corrupted. If you want to play a top level alliance type game I don't know that you would want to do it in EvE right now because it's just so random and unbalanced, with regards to rules and policy.
But f*** it. *popcorn*
|

tigerpr0n
Appetite 4 Destruction
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 04:09:00 -
[263] - Quote
good old black. |

Drec Von
CandyMan Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 07:30:00 -
[264] - Quote
Bullets n Beans |
|

ISD Dosnix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
580

|
Posted - 2013.10.21 11:08:00 -
[265] - Quote
Thread locked: RMT is forbidden by the ToS/Eula. Forum Rule #21:
Quote:Posts discussing, linking to, or advertising RMT, including but not limited to the sale of in game items, assets, currency, characters or game accounts for real life money are strictly prohibited. ISD Dosnix
ISD Dosnix Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCL) Interstellar Service Department |
|

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
654
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 12:57:00 -
[266] - Quote
Hehe, Black that's brillant !
Good luck :) G££ <= Me |

Crystafina
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 14:28:00 -
[267] - Quote
The irony of these past SomerBlink anti-competition and blocked for RMT posts is not lost on me.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=37957
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3431370#post3431370 And many many before.............
I also took a further look at the RMT and scripting banned players (but especially the RMT/Botting bans) and it looks like each person put hefty and I do mean HEFTY amounts into Blink but the process of banning is questionable and right inline with the other questionable practices happening here. It seems to go:
1. Get massive deposits in from an RMTer. 2. Somehow identify a botter or a botter's alt (CCP communucation directly to Blink??) 3. Out the person with a sarcastic post which everyone jumps on. 4. NOT RETURN THE ISK OR SAY IT WAS SENT TO CCP
If Point 4. is what it looks like (e.g. if it was sent back to CCP why not say so for kudos??) then Blink is 100% guilty of accepting RMT isk by proxy, knowing full well what it is and not returning it anywhere (i.e. they are now RMT by proxy)
Food for thought
|

Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 18:53:00 -
[268] - Quote
Baron vonDoom wrote:It would be nice to have an official response on this.
It should be perfectly legal as it's not remotely as malicious as what somer does on a daily basis. However, as we all experienced in recent events, CCP obviously applies double standards when it comes to somer.
I'd like to raffle 3 characters totaling 290 mill SP including a couple of HG pirate implant clones and ~150 bill worth in assets and isk.
I'd just like some reassurance CCP believe themselves to be as legit as somer before setting the package up.
One is left to wonder if CCP will simply change the rules for now to stop these schemes and then change them back in favour of Somer when it suits.
This sort of thing is corrosive and does corrupt the game, Perhaps it's time that CCP stated their position clearly, what their rules actually are, which groups those rules apply to and how one gets on their favoured list so that the rules no longer apply. |

Mug Costanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:48:00 -
[269] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter.
Let me help you out here. In the US, it is permitted. Please try and stop it, you will be laughed at in court.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraints_on_alienation |

Het Silenius
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:59:00 -
[270] - Quote
Mug Costanza wrote:CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. Let me help you out here. In the US, it is permitted. Please try and stop it, you will be laughed at in court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraints_on_alienation
ETCs aren't real property. |
|

Mug Costanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:16:00 -
[271] - Quote
Het Silenius wrote:Mug Costanza wrote:CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. Let me help you out here. In the US, it is permitted. Please try and stop it, you will be laughed at in court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraints_on_alienation ETCs aren't real property.
Good point actually but that won't stop them from being laughed at. |

Mug Costanza
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:38:00 -
[272] - Quote
Mug Costanza wrote:Het Silenius wrote:Mug Costanza wrote:CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter. Let me help you out here. In the US, it is permitted. Please try and stop it, you will be laughed at in court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraints_on_alienation ETCs aren't real property. Good point actually but that won't stop them from being laughed at.
Researching more into this issue. It seems that there are companies that do try and restrict their resale, but they have included sections in their terms that states that this is void in jurisdictions where it is not legal to restrict that resale.
So at best CCP will only be able to enforce that policy in jurisdictions where they can enact terms on the reselling of the cards.
And I now take it back, I doubt they will get laughed at seeing as how convoluted this subject is. Good luck enforcing your policy, though, CCP. |

Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
89
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:33:00 -
[273] - Quote
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
... and how one gets on their favoured list so that the rules no longer apply.
I think the recipe for that is quite nicely outlined by this quote:
Quote:If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
Now just replace the terms "state" and "lie" with "CCP" and "RMT" whilst adjusting the rest of the wording around it, it fits quite accurately. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2742
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:04:00 -
[274] - Quote
There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced.
|

Crystafina
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:22:00 -
[275] - Quote
And I guess THIS (Just added today from Blink's thread in this forum) answers the favoritism question quite nicely.
So new laws of forums are:
1. Thou shalt not discuss Somer in anything other than sparklingly shiny ways. (Because we may have screwed up here but our EULA and TOS have gone for a drink together to sort it out and e'll let you know what they come up with)
2. Thou shalt not discuss CCP in anything other than uber-shiney ways. (We are, after all, CCP)
3. Thou shalt not discuss the actions at the heart of the matter (Let's call it TMR) because it might add weight to any argument or violate the 1st two laws.
4. If all else fails to stop 1 thru 3, or we REALLY don't want to answer the question, stick the ISD on them. They don't work for CCP (officially) but thank goodness we gave them thread riot control methods that we can use them and then claim clean hands on. |

Frying Doom
2763
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:27:00 -
[276] - Quote
Gogela wrote:There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced. Well depending on the jurisdiction and if you had unpaid or even unused plex time that they failed to reimburse. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2743
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:30:00 -
[277] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Gogela wrote:There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced. Well depending on the jurisdiction and if you had unpaid or even unused plex time that they failed to reimburse. I don't claim to know much about laws outside of the US, but there's no jurisdiction in the US where it's illegal in any way shape or form. If I got 20 PLEX and put them in my hanger and CCP shut down the servers, I don't think they would have to reimburse me either. I mean I would hope they would anyway... but I know for certain they are not legally obligated to. International commerce is a federal matter, so the US is one big conformal jurisdiction.
Edit: Just remembered CCP Atlanta... that would muddy up the jurisdiction thing. They are still a foreign held company though, so federal law would of course apply, but I'm not sure how interstate commerce laws work or how they apply in that situation. I can say though that the federal president overrides anything else (except for marajuana laws in my state ) but any judge is going to look at the second life cases and rule based on that.
|

Frying Doom
2764
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:51:00 -
[278] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Gogela wrote:There's nothing illegal about selling GTCs or even in-game assets for RL money. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter though, CCP sets the "law" of the game, and if they say you can't sell GTCs for RL cash you can't sell GTCs for RL cash. There's no courts involved... there doesn't need to be. CCP can just ban your a** and that's the end of it. Nothing that's happened is illegal on any count. This is all about CCPs policies and whether they are globally or selectively enforced. Well depending on the jurisdiction and if you had unpaid or even unused plex time that they failed to reimburse. I don't claim to know much about laws outside of the US, but there's no jurisdiction in the US where it's illegal in any way shape or form. If I got 20 PLEX and put them in my hanger and CCP shut down the servers, I don't think they would have to reimburse me either. I mean I would hope they would anyway... but I know for certain they are not legally obligated to. International commerce is a federal matter, so the US is one big conformal jurisdiction. Edit: Just remembered CCP Atlanta... that would muddy up the jurisdiction thing. They are still a foreign held company though, so federal law would of course apply, but I'm not sure how interstate commerce laws work or how they apply in that situation. I can say though that the federal president overrides anything else (except for marajuana laws in my state  ) but any judge is going to look at the second life cases and rule based on that. As to plex in a cargo hold I have no idea. As to game time I know that is very much, receiving money for goods and services not supplied. Now in some countries that will end up going to court with a summons to appear in court going to CCP. If CCP choose not to answer the summons, nothing internationally will be done. A bench warrant for failure to appear in court will be issued and a summary jugment that CCP owes the money will be given and nothing else will be done, until the CEO or a director enters that jurisdiction, where by the bench warrant will come into effect.
If CCP enter the court then it is up to the judge to decide if CCP owes the money. The funny loophole is that in some small claims courts it is illegal to use lawyers and CCPs directors or CEO would have to defend them selves.
But I digress.....Stop RMT!!!
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2567
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 00:16:00 -
[279] - Quote
I know we're all being upset about SOMER Blink, but let's not forget Evealopalous does the same thing, along with other services too (none I can call to mind right at this moment, though). This is not a question of "is Blink literally the devil" but one of in general what 3rd party sites should or should not be allowed to do.
"Rewarding" a player with "bonus" virtual currency that "might" be able to get redeemed for in-game stuff is a load of crock. Each blink credit or "GTC token" has a statistically determined average ISK value, and "awarding" them as bonuses for paying money is tantamount to selling ISK for said money.
Any transaction in which real life money leaves one party's hand, followed by a direct consequence of ISK/items entering that party's hand is RMT. Any continuing silent approval of this behavior by CCP spits on the player base by signifying that RMT is okay... so long as you line CCP's pockets with GTC cash. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
|

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
483

|
Posted - 2013.10.22 00:18:00 -
[280] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The rules: 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category. ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2746
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:16:00 -
[281] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: As to plex in a cargo hold I have no idea. As to game time I know that is very much, receiving money for goods and services not supplied. Now in some countries that will end up going to court with a summons to appear in court going to CCP. If CCP choose not to answer the summons, nothing internationally will be done. A bench warrant for failure to appear in court will be issued and a summary jugment that CCP owes the money will be given and nothing else will be done, until the CEO or a director enters that jurisdiction, where by the bench warrant will come into effect.
If CCP enter the court then it is up to the judge to decide if CCP owes the money. The funny loophole is that in some small claims courts it is illegal to use lawyers and CCPs directors or CEO would have to defend them selves.
But I digress.....Stop RMT!!!
Well... that again depends on your country then. In the US contracts are binding... and when we created an account we agreed to this:
TOS wrote: 24. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userGÇÖs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
25. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT BY CCP OR ONE OF ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVES MAY RESULT FROM FAILURE TO ABIDE BY THESE RULES. SUCH TERMINATION WILL NOT ENTITLE YOU TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES PAID BY YOU FOR THE USE OF THE EVE ONLINE CLIENT, SERVERS OR WEB SITE. YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED GAME TIME REMAINING AT THE TIME OF TERMINATION.
Those would be binding here. That's the deal. Give money to CCP, and it's gone.
|

Frying Doom
2766
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:44:00 -
[282] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote: As to plex in a cargo hold I have no idea. As to game time I know that is very much, receiving money for goods and services not supplied. Now in some countries that will end up going to court with a summons to appear in court going to CCP. If CCP choose not to answer the summons, nothing internationally will be done. A bench warrant for failure to appear in court will be issued and a summary jugment that CCP owes the money will be given and nothing else will be done, until the CEO or a director enters that jurisdiction, where by the bench warrant will come into effect.
If CCP enter the court then it is up to the judge to decide if CCP owes the money. The funny loophole is that in some small claims courts it is illegal to use lawyers and CCPs directors or CEO would have to defend them selves.
But I digress.....Stop RMT!!!
Well... that again depends on your country then. In the US contracts are binding... and when we created an account we agreed to this: TOS wrote: 24. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userGÇÖs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
25. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT BY CCP OR ONE OF ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVES MAY RESULT FROM FAILURE TO ABIDE BY THESE RULES. SUCH TERMINATION WILL NOT ENTITLE YOU TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES PAID BY YOU FOR THE USE OF THE EVE ONLINE CLIENT, SERVERS OR WEB SITE. YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED GAME TIME REMAINING AT THE TIME OF TERMINATION.
Those would be binding here. That's the deal. Give money to CCP, and it's gone. As you will see on a lot of warranty documents and other documents, something similar to this altered for each country ' In the performance of all services to be provided hereunder, the company and Customer agree to comply with all applicable Federal, State and local laws and ordinances and all lawful orders, rules and regulations of any constituted authority.'
It is because what ever a company writes in service agreements, warranties or whatever they are completely void if they conflict with a countries laws. The laws come before a companies say so.
And it of course varies from country to country and even state by state as to what those laws and the courts interpretation of them are.
As I said, I digress....Down with RMT Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
273
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 03:51:00 -
[283] - Quote
The Greenmachine Greenmachine wrote:RIOT COUNT ME IN
REFUSE/RESIST - F*ck Sh*t Up
Chaos A.D. Tanks on the streets Confronting police Bleeding the plebs Raging crowd Burning cars Bloodshed starts Who'll be alive?!
Chaos A.D. Army in siege Total alarm I'm sick of this Inside the state War is created No man's land What's this sh*t?!
Refuse/Resist Refuse
Chaos A.D. Disorder unleashed Starting to burn Starting to lynch Silence means death Stand on your feet Inner fear Your worst enemy
Refuse/Resist Refuse/Resist |

Malkon Gevitz
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 04:33:00 -
[284] - Quote
Does this at least mean we won't be seeing the same damn alliance panel presentation for a fourth year running?  |

Frying Doom
2768
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 04:51:00 -
[285] - Quote
Malkon Gevitz wrote:Does this at least mean we won't be seeing the same damn alliance panel presentation for a fourth year running?  After a certain persons drunk escapades I find it difficult to believe we have had the same alliance panel every year.
But I get what you mean. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2751
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 06:57:00 -
[286] - Quote
Durka.

|

Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
93
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 08:28:00 -
[287] - Quote
CCP has no choice, they have to stop the GTC+XXXvirtualcredits selling via affilates and/or wholesales. Sure they can ban single players here and there who did their own Lottery but not for long because this will get public real fast and then they have to ban all Lotteries or let single players do it too. There is nothing in between.
I'm counting my ISK coversion rate right now and a lot of others did/will do the same. |

Gallente Citizen 827473904528
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 10:19:00 -
[288] - Quote
So what's happening with this?
done?
I love what people are doing.
I do love what people are doing and totally understand what they're getting at but if CCP want to stop it they can.
So what's happening?
Is there any official word yet? |

Garia666
CyberShield Inc C0VEN
30
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 10:53:00 -
[289] - Quote
so please update when you have the site where we can buy the gtc from.. smart effort btw.. as ccp most likely dont like this kind of exploit they will probably lock and delete this post.
|

Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:20:00 -
[290] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:]Please explain why a) it wasn't fair. One person 'bought' 2500 tickets and as such had a 2500/2501 chance of winning. The other person bought one ticket and had a 1/2501 chance if winning. If you buy more tickets to a raffle or lottery, you have more chance of winning. Please clarify why it wasn't fair - would love to hear it. Why bother doing 2500/2501? Just do 1/2 and always make #1 win, CCP have no way to prove it wasn't random in the same way they don't with Sommer. Always buy ticket #2 with an alt. Customer gets all the ISK they paid for no risk. Don't bother with true random selection when there is no need to.
Hang on... Your idea of making it "fair", is to rig the results?
Yeah. Great logic. |
|

Frying Doom
2778
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:35:00 -
[291] - Quote
Reizak StormFury wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Xander Phoena wrote:]Please explain why a) it wasn't fair. One person 'bought' 2500 tickets and as such had a 2500/2501 chance of winning. The other person bought one ticket and had a 1/2501 chance if winning. If you buy more tickets to a raffle or lottery, you have more chance of winning. Please clarify why it wasn't fair - would love to hear it. Why bother doing 2500/2501? Just do 1/2 and always make #1 win, CCP have no way to prove it wasn't random in the same way they don't with Sommer. Always buy ticket #2 with an alt. Customer gets all the ISK they paid for no risk. Don't bother with true random selection when there is no need to. Hang on... Your idea of making it "fair", is to rig the results? Yeah. Great logic. Maybe he wants a job with CCP  Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 12:49:00 -
[292] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As you will see on a lot of warranty documents and other documents, something similar to this altered for each country ' In the performance of all services to be provided hereunder, the company and Customer agree to comply with all applicable Federal, State and local laws and ordinances and all lawful orders, rules and regulations of any constituted authority.'
It is because what ever a company writes in service agreements, warranties or whatever they are completely void if they conflict with a countries laws. The laws come before a companies say so.
And it of course varies from country to country and even state by state as to what those laws and the courts interpretation of them are.
As I said, I digress....Down with RMT
This.
Contracts (and by extension, companies) CANNOT re-write law. End of.
If you sign a contract that allows me to end your life, but you're also living in a country where euthanasia is illegal, that contract would be meaningless.
If contracts were the be all and end all, you'd effectively have to start dealing with legalised murder, as well as a whole lot of other nasty things.
If the servers shutdown, and you had a substantial amount of subscription time, then CCP could be liable for a civil suit. This would be especially true if you made a considerable investment shortly before the servers went down, as it could be viewed as a scam. But again, that would be down to a court to decide, being a civil case. |

Shai 'Hulud
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 13:02:00 -
[293] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:CCP has no choice, they have to stop the GTC+XXXvirtualcredits selling via affilates and/or wholesales. Sure they can ban single players here and there who did their own Lottery but not for long because this will get public real fast and then they have to ban all Lotteries or let single players do it too. There is nothing in between.
I'm counting my ISK conversion rate right now and a lot of others did/will do the same. - SOMER engages in RMT: CCP gives them 5+ trillion ISK and praises them for community service. - Anyone else mentions they might want to try what SOMER is currently doing: Almost instantly threatened with a permanent ban.
Every day that passes without a decision is another day that CCP allows SOMER to get away with RMT that others (myself included) have been threatened with permanent bans for simply mentioning (I have never RMTed off anything).
There is no gray area here, it's clear favoritism. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |

Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 13:31:00 -
[294] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote:Jori McKie wrote:CCP has no choice, they have to stop the GTC+XXXvirtualcredits selling via affilates and/or wholesales. Sure they can ban single players here and there who did their own Lottery but not for long because this will get public real fast and then they have to ban all Lotteries or let single players do it too. There is nothing in between.
I'm counting my ISK conversion rate right now and a lot of others did/will do the same. - SOMER engages in RMT: CCP gives them 5+ trillion ISK and praises them for community service. - Anyone else mentions they might want to try what SOMER is currently doing: Almost instantly threatened with a permanent ban. Every day that passes without a decision is another day that CCP allows SOMER to get away with RMT that others (myself included) have been threatened with permanent bans for simply mentioning (I have never RMTed off anything). There is no gray area here, it's clear favoritism.
Yep.
I don't think I'll be renewing any of my subs next month. Love EVE, but I don't want to support a company that is:
- So unresponsive to customer concerns with any official statements as to what is and isn't allowed. I don't think that anyone has any delusions that what's going on here is 100% RMT. A well known company is making private, real world profit, and in return handing out ISK as an incentive to use their services over their competitors. CCP have yet to address this for nearly a week. That's simply unacceptable.
- Shows blatant favoritism to third party businesses, who are clearly in violation of the EULA and terms of service, but instead are rewarded for these violations. Anyone who attempts to follow the same business model is immediately threatened, whilst again, no official word is given in regards to how the original (and continual) perpetrators are going to be punished (yeah, right).
- Above all else, seems to have such intense greed for the profits from GTCs it procures through SOMER's business that it is willing to infuriate, alienate and threaten a large portion of its playerbase.
That's before you get into the under-the-table deals that go on privately between the exclusive members of this boys club syndicate (3,000,000,000,000 ISK worth of ships anyone?).
Everyday I read something more and more that puts me off supporting these guys (CCP). I wasn't bothered when I heard about the ships being handed out, as I know that SOMER does do a fair amount of good (sponsoring events, etc). I thought they deserved it. But, to make private, financial, real world gains, that clearly infringe on CCP's own policies, and have CCP ENDORSE them? Not only endorse SOMER, but then have people who are offering something which is exactly the same, be threatened?
No. That's just plain wrong. That's double standards on steroids. |

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
496
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 13:45:00 -
[295] - Quote
Well it looks like this is ok? I have a character to "raffle" for a cut of the money if any GTC sellers are interested. |

Obunagawe
241
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 20:51:00 -
[296] - Quote
ngaly wrote:IGÇÖm really hoping more people will do what you are doing. If enough people do it CCP will be forced to acknowledge that they actually tolerated RMT for more than a year already. Eventually they will have to start preventing lottery websites from using this GÇ£trickGÇ¥.
They did. Their threads are locked in this forum. |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2754
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 21:15:00 -
[297] - Quote
Reizak StormFury wrote: Contracts (and by extension, companies) CANNOT re-write law. End of.
If you sign a contract that allows me to end your life, but you're also living in a country where euthanasia is illegal, that contract would be meaningless.
If contracts were the be all and end all, you'd effectively have to start dealing with legalised murder, as well as a whole lot of other nasty things.
If the servers shutdown, and you had a substantial amount of subscription time, then CCP could be liable for a civil suit. This would be especially true if you made a considerable investment shortly before the servers went down, as it could be viewed as a scam. But again, that would be down to a court to decide, being a civil case.
You can wave a lot of rights in contracts... they bind you and compel you to some action you wouldn't otherwise be bound or obligated to do. NDA's, for instance, limit your freedom of speech. It can get complex. Breaching a contract carries penalties... but not generally criminal. If a line item of a contract is considered to be unlawful, a judge will generally strike just that line, adjust it, but leave the rest of the contract intact. No you can't sign a contract (and have it held up in court) with a death penalty clause, but you can sign one that carries a monetary penalty. You can waive your right to pursue civil or certain criminal cases. You can waive property rights. Your murder analogy is way over the top and not comparable to this situation. I can tell you have never entered into a business contract before and have no idea what you are talking about. Google "exclusion clause".
|

Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 15:45:00 -
[298] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Reizak StormFury wrote: Contracts (and by extension, companies) CANNOT re-write law. End of.
If you sign a contract that allows me to end your life, but you're also living in a country where euthanasia is illegal, that contract would be meaningless.
If contracts were the be all and end all, you'd effectively have to start dealing with legalised murder, as well as a whole lot of other nasty things.
If the servers shutdown, and you had a substantial amount of subscription time, then CCP could be liable for a civil suit. This would be especially true if you made a considerable investment shortly before the servers went down, as it could be viewed as a scam. But again, that would be down to a court to decide, being a civil case.
You can wave a lot of rights in contracts... they bind you and compel you to some action you wouldn't otherwise be bound or obligated to do. NDA's, for instance, limit your freedom of speech. It can get complex. Breaching a contract carries penalties... but not generally criminal. If a line item of a contract is considered to be unlawful, a judge will generally strike just that line, adjust it, but leave the rest of the contract intact. No you can't sign a contract (and have it held up in court) with a death penalty clause, but you can sign one that carries a monetary penalty. You can waive your right to pursue civil or certain criminal cases. You can waive property rights. Your murder analogy is way over the top and not comparable to this situation. I can tell you have never entered into a business contract before and have no idea what you are talking about. Google "exclusion clause".
You're confusing rights and laws here.
In a NDA, you have the right to free speech. That is your right to waive, should you see fit.
When a company sells you something, that company does so within the confines of the law. A citizen doesn't have the ability to change that law because they want to. You are unable to waive it.
The example I gave may be extreme, but it is the case for any act of criminality that breaches the law of the constituency in question.
I could have just as easily used an example of writing a contract that allows you to steal an apple from me.
I can choose not to press charges, but you'd be unable to hold up a piece of paper in a courtroom which meant I'd be unable to press charges.
I'll state again. Citizens (and by extension, companies) cannot change the law. You can waive rights, including your right to press charges (provided the matter involved yourself, and only youself), but if a felony is committed, you can absolutely go the whole nine-yards with it in a courtroom, regardless of what a piece of paper says.
Also, I did two years of an LLB at King's College London, before I had to stop for health concerns.
Additionally, there are pieces of legislation in many countries that are there to prevent outrageous exclusion clauses (which again, can only waive rights).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Contract_Terms_Act_1977 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Terms_in_Consumer_Contracts_Regulations_1999
Are two that affect British consumers (of which I am one).
And just to clarify, no one here has entered into a business contract. We've signed up to a consumer licensing agreement. Very different things. |

Farelle
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:47:00 -
[299] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Greetings,
Any form of ETC trading outside of the CCP created system is not permitted or supported by CCP. We are currently investigating if the sort of ETC resale (resale by an unauthorized reseller) is permitted. We appreciate your patience while we investigate this matter.
This is a precise copy of SOMER Blink, so are you now stating that SOMER do break the EULA?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M16Lkv6XuNU/UmvJU3ZMxhI/AAAAAAAAAMI/C80TqeU4lY0/s320/RMT.jpg |

Ra Jackson
the unified SCUM.
256
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 15:07:00 -
[300] - Quote
Where does he say that he is quitting? If this works I will cash out my highest SP characters too because they just get boring over time. |
|

Frying Doom
2808
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 04:27:00 -
[301] - Quote
This whole section of the forums has just gone bat **** crazy.
I think CCP waited to long buddying up with SOMER.
Well they can look on the bright side, they are making GTC sales as everyone cashes out. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Garia666
CyberShield Inc C0VEN
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 06:59:00 -
[302] - Quote
A 3th party site should make isk as an reward and not money.
|

Frying Doom
2837
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:46:00 -
[303] - Quote
This just gets weirder and weirder.
A Nyx is an in game item but isk apparently is not.
I think CCP have come up with a ruling, that allows gambling, just not for things other than isk. Even though you can buy a GTC off somer and end up with a carrier.
Personally I think they have run this game down so much that it is only staying afloat with gambling money.
It makes sense with their worry over new player retention, Trebors threats that if they make a snap judgement we wont like it, Jesters 'we are shooting our self in the foot' and CCPs hiding their subscriber numbers on their financial reports while increasing development by 4 million over 6 months.
I think this game is up the creek without a paddle. The PCU is only a couple of thousand above what it was just after Incarna, and Incarna cost them about 5000 on the PCU. For that they laid off 20% of their staff. What is worse is that on the financial statements their defered income is higher than their cash in bank, so they have recieved money for subscriptions not for that period (eg. people paid in advance) and that amount is greater than the amount they have left.
Stupid thing is if they actually told us what was going on and the fact they were up the creek, players would actually help them. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2758
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:54:00 -
[304] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:This just gets weirder and weirder.
A Nyx is an in game item but isk apparently is not.
I think CCP have come up with a ruling, that allows gambling, just not for things other than isk. Even though you can buy a GTC off somer and end up with a carrier.
Personally I think they have run this game down so much that it is only staying afloat with gambling money.
It makes sense with their worry over new player retention, Trebors threats that if they make a snap judgement we wont like it, Jesters 'we are shooting our self in the foot' and CCPs hiding their subscriber numbers on their financial reports while increasing development by 4 million over 6 months.
I think this game is up the creek without a paddle. The PCU is only a couple of thousand above what it was just after Incarna, and Incarna cost them about 5000 on the PCU. For that they laid off 20% of their staff.
Stupid thing is if they actually told us what was going on and the fact they were up the creek, players would actually help them. I think they should just institutionalize gambling. Take it off the street and bring it in station. That would be a good reason to open the door... you could buy GTCs in-game to pay for your habit, and anyone could buy a station slot and open their own casino. I realize there's some work involved there, but from a "total cost" perspective given what's going on now, and the fact that CCP would be able to cut out the middle man making it ultimately more profitable for them, it seems like a logical solution to this humble pod. It's a solution whereby everyone wins... pods would probably feel more comfortable actually making a GTC purchase directly from CCP rather than going through a third party (meaning more GTCs sold overall and sans 3rd party commission), the field would be level in that anyone could start up a gambling operation, and more players would probably develop a gambling habit overall, meaning more money for casino operators.
...or they could just keep kicking the can down the road.
|

Frying Doom
2838
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 22:22:00 -
[305] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote:This just gets weirder and weirder.
A Nyx is an in game item but isk apparently is not.
I think CCP have come up with a ruling, that allows gambling, just not for things other than isk. Even though you can buy a GTC off somer and end up with a carrier.
Personally I think they have run this game down so much that it is only staying afloat with gambling money.
It makes sense with their worry over new player retention, Trebors threats that if they make a snap judgement we wont like it, Jesters 'we are shooting our self in the foot' and CCPs hiding their subscriber numbers on their financial reports while increasing development by 4 million over 6 months.
I think this game is up the creek without a paddle. The PCU is only a couple of thousand above what it was just after Incarna, and Incarna cost them about 5000 on the PCU. For that they laid off 20% of their staff.
Stupid thing is if they actually told us what was going on and the fact they were up the creek, players would actually help them. I think they should just institutionalize gambling. Take it off the street and bring it in station. That would be a good reason to open the door... you could buy GTCs in-game to pay for your habit, and anyone could buy a station slot and open their own casino. I realize there's some work involved there, but from a "total cost" perspective given what's going on now, and the fact that CCP would be able to cut out the middle man making it ultimately more profitable for them, it seems like a logical solution to this humble pod. It's a solution whereby everyone wins... pods would probably feel more comfortable actually making a GTC purchase directly from CCP rather than going through a third party (meaning more GTCs sold overall and sans 3rd party commission), the field would be level in that anyone could start up a gambling operation, and more players would probably develop a gambling habit overall, meaning more money for casino operators. ...or they could just keep kicking the can down the road. The biggest problem with that is atm they are skating on some very thin ice but can claim that they do not operate the gambling site.
If they did it them selves they are way over the legal line.
To be honest given the different laws in different countries I am surprised no one has been indited already. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2758
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 22:24:00 -
[306] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: The biggest problem with that is atm they are skating on some very thin ice but can claim that they do not operate the gambling site.
If they did it them selves they are way over the legal line.
To be honest given the different laws in different countries I am surprised no one has been indited already.
If there is no way to commodify in-game items then no, it's not gambling because nothing in game exists legally.
|

Frying Doom
2840
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:08:00 -
[307] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote: The biggest problem with that is atm they are skating on some very thin ice but can claim that they do not operate the gambling site.
If they did it them selves they are way over the legal line.
To be honest given the different laws in different countries I am surprised no one has been indited already.
If there is no way to commodify in-game items then no, it's not gambling because nothing in game exists legally. the word legally means different things in different countries and states.
The best example of this is http://thepiratebay.sx/legal Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2759
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:20:00 -
[308] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote: The biggest problem with that is atm they are skating on some very thin ice but can claim that they do not operate the gambling site.
If they did it them selves they are way over the legal line.
To be honest given the different laws in different countries I am surprised no one has been indited already.
If there is no way to commodify in-game items then no, it's not gambling because nothing in game exists legally. the word legally means different things in different countries and states. The best example of this is http://thepiratebay.sx/legal I don't think that shows virtual items as "existing" in legal terms, anywhere.
It is however a link filled with humorous legal exchanges... very entertaining. 
|

Frying Doom
2848
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:45:00 -
[309] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Gogela wrote:Frying Doom wrote: The biggest problem with that is atm they are skating on some very thin ice but can claim that they do not operate the gambling site.
If they did it them selves they are way over the legal line.
To be honest given the different laws in different countries I am surprised no one has been indited already.
If there is no way to commodify in-game items then no, it's not gambling because nothing in game exists legally. the word legally means different things in different countries and states. The best example of this is http://thepiratebay.sx/legal I don't think that shows virtual items as "existing" in legal terms, anywhere. It is however a link filled with humorous legal exchanges... very entertaining.  What I was showing is that the laws and interpretations of the laws vary from place to place.
Because if you think about it starting a game and having gambling, which does not involve 'real money' as an output is an excellent way to launder drug funds or other illegal funds.
Few million in start up cash and then you hide behind the its not real money excuse and if you own the third party vendor as well in a different country under a different name all the better.
But yes those legal exchanges are as funny as hell, I especially like the ones where he threatens legal action for harassment as he is not doing anything illegal in his country.  Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|

CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2911

|
Posted - 2013.10.30 12:59:00 -
[310] - Quote
I am locking this as trading any in-game goods in exchange for ISK, even through ETC reselling or the like. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: [one page] |