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War Kitten
Panda McLegion xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
4588
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Posted - 2013.10.23 13:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
Some sort of introductory paragraph would be keen.
Your OP just jumps into the middle of your complicated inner thinking without explaining much why we should care or try to follow your math.
Please fix this transgression, thanks.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.10.23 14:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Some sort of introductory paragraph would be keen.
Your OP just jumps into the middle of your complicated inner thinking without explaining much why we should care or try to follow your math.
Please fix this transgression, thanks.
It is more for referrence than to be followed to be honest. The numbers are there to allow for verification in case of doubt or scepticism. The numbers also serve for accuracy although accuracy is not the derivative of the precise ratio.
The point is to avoid further useless internet costs of playing EVE Online without making profit. It is not hard to spend over $400 to $1,000 just because of losses and promises of gain based on lower costs. Everyone else with lower costs can manage to get some ISK but at higher costs only 'valid' Character Bazaar transfer make up for the costs.
I currently had to calculate this to prove the cost of buying PLEX were more worthwhile for me than others. Let's say compared to mining at 2 million per hour with 3 Ventures and 1 Cyclone, the Cyclone being for rats prevention. Mining in 0.5 with rats that can destroy new Ventures in the time it takes for the lag to dissipate on mutil-client is not profitable. Add in the equation an unnamed Skiff challenging it to a duel -vs- it's 100 dps with reduced turrets from 4 or 5 to 2. I was lucky I didn't loose the 25m to 100m worth Cyclone which would further add to the profit versus costs ratio. After webifying and Warp scrambling my 5 drones were destroyed and the Skiff T2 drones were killing me. The High end Battleship EHP vessel wasn't even down to 50% shield.
$400 to $1,000 easily is worth the 28 PLEX offer which is at current market value: 615m ISK x 28 = 17.220b ISK, enough for 5 months or more in Null sec with protection from Alliances or Coalition.
Or enough for a nice pilot or 2, or a mining fleet, or more skill than my current levels all at under 6 million SP. On the higher end of that amount, it is more than 32b ISK for twice the numbers listed above.
(+ I never posted on the WoW forums except once to say hi around the beginning.) 39m SP for 7b ISK start 45m SP for 13b ISK buyout 74m SP for 25b ISK b/o (carrier capital and dread pilot super cap.) 99m sp for 34b ISK b/o PvP Carrier and Dread pilot. 73m SP for 15b ISK start 25b ISK b/o http://eveboard.com/pilot/10_Percenter 107m SP for 38b ISK or lower offers welcome. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Kiamoso
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No Means No
University of Caille Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2013.10.23 15:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:What in the actual **** is the point of this ****?
the point of this thread is to show its actually a LOT better to spend 3 or 4 hours working at mcdonalds and buy plexes with that money than being in front of a monitor countless hours clicking f1 and headaches with market orders and this and that (bunch of bull) just to make the same or even less isks.
Isks income ratio:
1x work at mcdonalds: 10x playing eve
buddy program? what for? when you can just work couple hours more at mcdonalds and buy a character off the market already skilled and ready to go? |
Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.10.23 17:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
No Means No wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:What in the actual **** is the point of this ****? the point of this thread is to show its actually a LOT better to spend 3 or 4 hours working at mcdonalds and buy plexes with that money than being in front of a monitor countless hours clicking f1 and headaches with market orders and this and that (bunch of bull) just to make the same or even less isks. Isks income ratio: 1x work at mcdonalds: 10x playing eve buddy program? what for? when you can just work couple hours more at mcdonalds and buy a character off the market already skilled and ready to go?
Watch out with the buddy's too. But multi-character training doesn't cost much more internet time even at $3 / hr or more around Brazil. That goes up to around $100 / hour or more by satellite over there...
But, running multiple buddy requires higher EVE Time costs payments as well.
It takes me 10 minutes or less to update my Skill queue lately. I used to have to patch from start due to the reboot array scheme which took 30 minutes to log in. I think they made a deal with the place I log ingame from so that I don't have to do the whole 30-50 minutes update anymore.
I sometimes have some problems to get the client to login quickly. It only goes to Cargo Bay from the Captain's Quarter, which then takes longer.
It's worth more to buy PLEX (up to a limited number) depending on the cost of play time. It is due to the potential cost of playing without enough ingame income. If you make 100m+ ISK / hr I'm currently being offered, then it's not worth the same. However, it's still cost me 10 hours or so to get my ingame ISK income level to cost to get that ingame income ratio covered.
Which 10 hours of ingame time still translates to $15 for me. I save $5 on the PLEX value. However, the remaining $5 would allow me to make 300m ISK which is only 50% of a PLEX. I'd then still be better to buy a PLEX instead of spending on Null Sec Rental.
At 150m per hour or more, then it becomes more worthwhile. I could cover my costs in 8 hours which is still $15. But the 4 hours extra would let me get 600m ISK which is just under the current value.
At 175m ISK per hour or more, than I make a slight profit, but it takes me the time to do it. PLEX value is amost instant although that it gives no Skill Points.
At 200m per hour income, it'd take me 6 hours to get 1.2b ISK cost covered. The remaining 6 hours from the equivalent cost of a PLEx at $20 for 1 would give me 1.2b. The value of 2 PLEX for the cost of one, where I start getting free PLEX value or , free game play.
To make a PLEX on top of my game time would require more income. 250m / hr in 5 hours = 1.25b ISK. 7 hours = 1,75b ISK - EVE Time = 2 PLEX + 536m ISK (almost a free PLEX).
(There are also other problems like annoyingly being told to shut up. This when a password sequence not supposed to be there pops up. Having problems with the French keyboard scheme when the system has no way to control it.) |
Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
7
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Posted - 2013.10.23 18:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
For some of us, one of the whole point of the game is to pile up as big a pile of isk as possible.
I also like the social element.
I also like to pile up some kills
I have 791 kills -- Padding kills would be pathetic - it would defeat the whole joy I have in searching for those scarce kills --- the scarcity of kills and time to find them (like a sea shell collection ...none with any $ resale valuable but valuable in that I found them myself) The handful of padded kills I have to collect insurance bounties taint my series of "notches on the barrel". -- MY Kills aren't worth anything to others -- not even bragging rights.. they're just a personal score for myself - maybe they say I've played a lot of hours but that's it -. None of my kills took much player skill.. other than the HUNT ... I'm not a great pilot but a pretty ok team member in terms of showing up and shooting what I'm told. Still they have value to me
---
I have nearly 200 billion in a LIQUID isk Fortune (not counting pvp ships and crappy loot strewn all over the map) -- only counting the very liquid (in ISK, PLEX, buy orders or stacks of things with huge buy orders to liqidat into in jita if need be)
-- Buyng isk would Defeat the whole purpose of that major part of my game play and enjoyment... Making ISK is the goal in trading !
I would be a complete loser to buy ISK given my OWN sandbox goals .. just as I'd be a complete loser to get a really "high score" playing a point keeping video game in "god mode"
SANDBOX -- goal is fun > I enjoy making ISK as an end in itself - other's dislike the game play involved in Making ISK - Fun.. point is to play in a way to have FUN -- we all enjoy different things... depending what is fun will also determine your personal $ to ISK ratio
It's nearly impossible to equate my value of ISK with those who do pay $ to use isk to fund their ships.
"average" would not do it ... but assuming either side would be incorrect either.
-- it is all contextual
That being said.. I don't mind people quoting "street $ value of a Drake" as long as they don't actually say a Drake is worth $ without the qualification of "street value" .
Wrong -- equating hours it took for people who ENJOY and activity with $ value
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Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
7
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Posted - 2013.10.23 19:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
I will say one good thing about what the OP is trying to do...
... the part of coming up with rough play hours per item creation (I think that's one of the things he's trying to do) that is useful in it's own separate right - if not connected to $
None of that could be done with any super precision.. but .. guessing ranges and using numbers at the center of the range will get you orders of magnitude.... and the numbers derived will allow easy comparison between player hours to create other items using the same metrics.
I don't know one thing about mining (even after years in the game.. I've done a dozen mining missions but that's about it)
BUT... whether my numbers are wrong or not.. say it took 10 hours of mining to get the materials to make a Drake and get the materials to a NPC factory where you already owned the BPO (take the bpo part out of it for now)
--- So, using the above a Drake costs 10 player hours --- I know a Raven takes more materials Does a raven take 3 times a Drake? a rave is worth 30 player hours if a drake is 10 player hours?
Here is where the $ figures using the $ cost and isk/plex cost as the one sort of $ value can go sideways...
--- 10 hours for a guy working at McDonalds = $60 (and the after taxes per hour in CA with a $10 minimum wage might be more) -- 10 hours for a consultant netting $50 an hour = $500
In game hours is a fair way of calculating a "cost" (cost in hours) of an item. -- is the real world value using that "opportunity cost of working" value of a drake $60 or $500 ? what would you put on a kill mail? lol ... like I said in the above post.. its all contextual
I do think a rough number of "Game-hours" without a conversion.. as an alternative to "Plex$Value" would be a good "order of magnitude number..
... but best of all to compare items? ISK .. lol the in-game currency.. fancy that! |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
210
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Posted - 2013.10.24 00:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
This guy is undoubtedly using the same logic behind the fantastic Learning Triangle. Just comare the two . . . identical.
http://www.somethingawful.com/fakesa/learning_triangle/ I am not an alt of Chribba. |
Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.10.25 12:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
I will add a post that I saved and didn't publish later, even though I could have it scheduled for posting on http://Tumblr.com and linked from here.
But I will now add, prior to the above, that I am currently gathering data on the costs of learning. Those costs include the login time, the patching time if any. There are a few other details like the planning phase and the new (hardcopy) Print-outs I will now do.
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Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
154
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Posted - 2013.10.25 13:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hey OP you are really good with numbers, can you tell me which is the odd number out in this sequence?
1 11 22 23 44 88 ?
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Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.10.26 14:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Other Additional costs to be included in the equation to derive the Actual Income or Costs for me so far were :
1. The cost in time and money it took me to run and intall EVE Wallet from which I exported Ingame business data.
2. The indirect cost of delays caused by the installation of a new printer while having to print a resume. That resume was intended for a 9 to 5 interview window valid for a work contract including a $400 + training (offered for free).
This 2nd derivative added into the equation more than doubled my original total costs. It also make the EVE Online ingame income reduced by another half or more.
3. That is in fact even after other possible discrimination occured to another guaranteed job offer I had. This would have costed me another $333 (taxes included) but would have generated $2,400 a month in income. It is not directly related to the printer change above (or that printer going to a private residence for a new business model). However, the money from the second job offer with paid trraining to pay for the first job offer training to get $2,400 is a cheesy scheme.
4. It also obviously delays my EVE Online ingame income which to this point is limited to the Character Bazaar due to cost per benefit ratio. It looks more like specific data analysis of data field used by intelligence to delay and hide their scheme as if discrimination.
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Adunh Slavy
1283
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Posted - 2013.10.26 14:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Do you enjoy playing Eve? How do you account for that answer? I suggest you discover how to measure utils. Best of luck. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
To Be Me
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.10.26 15:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
This thread is kind of pointless (not disregarding the op effort) but if youre playing eve suposedly youre not worrying about internet costs.
The game is just not for you, accept it and move on, stop playing.
Cause who the hell cares about internet costs in 2013 anymore, not anyones fault you live in a 3rd world country.
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Vobard
Corporation 310526
14
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Posted - 2013.10.26 15:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Hey OP you are really good with numbers, can you tell me which is the odd number out in this sequence?
1 11 22 23 44 88 ?
1, 11, 23. |
Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.10.26 15:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
To Be Me wrote:This thread is kind of pointless (not disregarding the op effort) but if youre playing eve suposedly youre not worrying about internet costs.
The game is just not for you, accept it and move on, stop playing.
Cause who the hell cares about internet costs in 2013 anymore, not anyones fault you live in a 3rd world country.
The $800 + is not about internet costs. I can get internet free for while others overloaded with Spam critics and junk have to pay per bytes of transfer.
I do stop and my characters are still available for Character Bazaar.
Please don't try to give hell to my kids by forcing them to be enslaved in a 3rd world country (aside for working there to break oppression).
You're misinterpreting me.
Regardless, the point is that without knowledge of hidden costs, you can't understand what income you need. One then can't calculate the difference and risk to get entrapped in the sense of worthlessness you refer. One has to want to be blind not to see the day to day use that can be applied to this analysis.
It does avoid me losses of costs and allows me to protect my work , rights, intellectual property and other properties. I know that if I do lose a finite amount of time, resource, money, even ingame ISK, that I can use the record of loss to prevent recurrence. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
63656
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 16:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote:
It does avoid me losses of costs and allows me to protect my work , rights, intellectual property and other properties. I know that if I do lose a finite amount of time, resource, money, even ingame ISK, that I can use the record of loss to prevent recurrence.
Oh, for Cry-Eye.
What fantasy is that coughed up from like a hairball ?
Anything you do on TQ or the Forums (the Bazaar too) is the intellectual property of CCP. Every last Aurum and ISK and collection of pixels. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
To Be Me
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.10.26 16:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Hey OP you are really good with numbers, can you tell me which is the odd number out in this sequence?
1 11 22 23 44 88 ?
60? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1606
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Posted - 2013.10.26 16:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote:Baggo Hammers wrote:"Derivate" is typically a noun. "Derive" works better and makes you look smarter. ty, typo, I'll fix it.
While you are at it, its losing, not loosing.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
63709
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Posted - 2013.10.26 17:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Vis Aldent wrote:Baggo Hammers wrote:"Derivate" is typically a noun. "Derive" works better and makes you look smarter. ty, typo, I'll fix it. While you are at it, its losing, not loosing.
I've seen that error on this Forum about 10,000 times. Thank you for noticing as well.
On top of it all, it could be correct with "loosening" but that's still way off in spelling "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
436
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Posted - 2013.10.26 18:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Morpheus Niminen wrote:He's trying to figure out how to get "free" internet, assuming he converted isk to PLEX and then sold it for IRL cash. Start a lottery... Of course not, I was only referring to the fact that I can read or write on forums for free as compared to EVE Online game time for which I can only do by paying. You are obviously turning my words around. I can also browse the forums from another source than Monday to Friday in the weekends for free but there is no guarantee of the scheduling. I will refine and transfer the ideas of this thread to another one to avoid highjacking. I'm even more confused now. Remove insurance. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
572
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Posted - 2013.10.26 18:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Is this guy using the EvE forums to store his PLEX maths calculations? Or should i expect to see some sort of point to be reached at sometime that i can get involved in?
I thought that's what forums were all about, areas to debate topics freely and openly. This seems like a data-dump for someone who hasn't got access to a spreadsheet program.
You're free to write on the forums mate, but you have to contribute a topic or subject that people can get involved in. I'm completely confused at what you're getting at here. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
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Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
242
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Posted - 2013.10.26 18:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
........
*eyes walls of text*
......um......
sure.
whatever.
I still say minerals I mine myself are free! :P
And actually, no. The Forums AREN'T free. You need an active subscription to post anything.
AND I READ THAT TOTALLY WRONG. you said forums, not The Forums.
Derp. |
Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.10.27 16:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
To Himnos Altar, the forums are not free. Although that resources to read and write are also required, on top of the paid subscription costs.
To Xen Solarus, I'll move to thread content to my own website so that it will avoid potential conflict. I do have access to spreadsheet, in fact, even design and copyright my own. Feel free to contribute positively.
To Derath Ellecon and Krixtal Icefluxor, fixed.
To Krixtal Icefluxor about IP rights, and I also design 3 party program which I will link later on if possible. I was referring to my own IP and not infringing on CCP's rights, or inciting to, or promoting it.
Other potential costs include: 8 banned accounts.
The $5 starter pack offer could be nice and save 50% of the cost of 2 pilots with a Buddy at $20. I checked it out and created or updated a Steam account though I didn't buy it since I paid for more time.
I have new Bomber ready for fleet at 30.
I also have one previous post that I saved for later and never posted yet. |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2410
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Posted - 2013.10.27 22:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
HI,
I've trimmed this thread ever so slightly; there's no reason to simply accuse someone of RMT because they are correlating the worth of game activities to plex costs...
Please be careful though - it wouldn't take too much to misconstrue this thread.
Thanks and fly safe ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Dont UseYourAlt OnTheForums
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.10.28 02:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
So CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN IN ONE SENTENCE (2 lines of text at most), what is that you want? Or what are you trying to say?
2 lines of text pls |
Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
108
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Posted - 2013.10.28 03:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
I find both this thread and the player who posted it to be exceedingly irritating.
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Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
577
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Posted - 2013.10.28 03:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote: Feel free to contribute positively.
To WHAT?? You haven't bothered to clearly and concisely state what this thread is even about.
I think i'm just going to conclude this is a stealth "ISK to real-money" moan thread. I'm pretty sure the OP isn't going to bother explaining himself. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'll be replying by EVE Mail later on but probably not until a week or 2.
I'm busy with other things. I wrote I'd be publishing about this on another medium to avoid being made to look bad.
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Jove Death
Jovian Vengeance
114
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Soooooo
hmmmmm
weeelllllll
ok got it
Your mad mate Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek
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Winters Chill
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
117
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Posted - 2013.10.28 17:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
You missed an important aspect in your analysis.
Were fun playing eve is inversly proportional to the amount of time spent calculating the true economic cost of playing the game.
This stuff is were madness lies.
Before you know it, you will be rationing the time it takes to take a **** to maximise your economic output.
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Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.02 16:36:00 -
[60] - Quote
Price Checks Thread on Opportunities, Every One Welcome!!
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