I'll be working on this Calculations of Costs Compared to Ingame Income to Derivate the actual amount of real Ingame Profit.

I am busy with other things for now and should be back in around 4 to 5 hours to try to complete this thread or post.

I'll just throw in some numbers for now so that it is easier to see and compare.


This won't include all calculation except double the income to generate half of profit or 50% of profit due to cost margin.

Internet Cost:
$35 for a month (30 days+) is equal to 2 PLEX which is equal to 1.18m ISK (at 590m ISK per PLEX on the market in Jita IV).
That is equal to $35 for 720 hours (at 30 days x 24 hours) .
= 1.63m ISK / hr in relative equivalent costs. Or 3.26m ISK per hour = 1.63m ISK profit / hr. 4.89m ISK income - costs = 3.26m ISK profit.

If $55 for a month , it is equivalent to 3 PLEX at 1.77m ISK.
= 2.45m ISK / hr cost equivalent related to profit margin.

@ $5 / 3 hours internet costs = 42.5m ISK / hr income at 590m ISK for 1 PLEx. (4 x 3 hours = 12 hours = $20 = 1 PLEX.)

@ $40 / 25 hours internet costs = 47.2m ISK / hr income
@ $35 / 21 hours = 56.1m ISK / hr
= 1.18b ISK for 2 PLEX.

@ $100 / 100 hours = 1.77b ISK for 3 PLEX = 17.7m ISK / hr.
@ $105 / 103 hours = 3.54b ISK for 6 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr equivalent cost related to profit margin amount.

(Notice the margin change to around 50% or double... Realize that it is not only the related equivalent income but also includes the relative costs.)

@ $210 / 206 hours = 7.08b ISK for 12 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr.
@ $490 / 459 hours = 16.52b ISK for 28 PLEX = 35.99m ISK / hr.

Also note that the 17.7m ISK / hr in 100 hours is not only the cost but also the related equivalent income.
That also does not include the EVE Pilot cost of time in game time equivalent costs like PLEX use for game time.
Once those costs are added in the equation, the total profit will be less and total costs higher.
It will also increase the income in ISK per hour required to achieve the same results.

This thread belongs to Market Discussion.

"Derivate" is typically a noun. "Derive" works better and makes you look smarter.

The comparison of costs is only valid if you only use your internet to play eve, and for no other purpose, otherwise you have to deduct and adjust for the time spent on reddit, imgur, xhamster while connected to eve.

Additionally, since isk comes in while you are sleeping, you need to adjust for this

None of this matters at the edge of scram range. But please continue.

He's trying to figure out how to get "free" internet, assuming he converted isk to PLEX and then sold it for IRL cash.

Start a lottery...

I too can use a **** load of math to make myself seem intelligent.


The number of ****s I give = 0

The number of people who think theyre the space rainman = 5000 (approx.)

Now, if you take the number of ****s I give times the number of space rainmen, you once again arrive at the number of ****s I give.

Math proof: 5000 x 0 = 0.

Yeah! Math *****!

I'll be working on this Calculations of Costs Compared to Ingame Income to Derive (not Derivate) the actual amount of real Ingame Profit.

I am busy with other things for now and should be back in around 4 to 5 hours to try to complete this thread or post.

I'll just throw in some numbers for now so that it is easier to see and compare.


This won't include all calculation except double the income to generate half of profit or 50% of profit due to cost margin.

Internet Cost:
$35 for a month (30 days+) is equal to 2 PLEX which is equal to 1.18m ISK (at 590m ISK per PLEX on the market in Jita IV).
That is equal to $35 for 720 hours (at 30 days x 24 hours) .
= 1.63m ISK / hr in relative equivalent costs. Or 3.26m ISK per hour = 1.63m ISK profit / hr. 4.89m ISK income - costs = 3.26m ISK profit.

If $55 for a month , it is equivalent to 3 PLEX at 1.77m ISK.
= 2.45m ISK / hr cost equivalent related to profit margin.

@ $5 / 3 hours internet costs = 42.5m ISK / hr income at 590m ISK for 1 PLEx. (4 x 3 hours = 12 hours = $20 = 1 PLEX.)

@ $40 / 25 hours internet costs = 47.2m ISK / hr income
@ $35 / 21 hours = 56.1m ISK / hr
= 1.18b ISK for 2 PLEX.

@ $100 / 100 hours = 1.77b ISK for 3 PLEX = 17.7m ISK / hr.
@ $105 / 103 hours = 3.54b ISK for 6 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr equivalent cost related to profit margin amount.

(Notice the margin change to around 50% or double... Realize that it is not only the related equivalent income but also includes the relative costs.)

@ $210 / 206 hours = 7.08b ISK for 12 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr.
@ $490 / 459 hours = 16.52b ISK for 28 PLEX = 35.99m ISK / hr.

Also note that the 17.7m ISK / hr in 100 hours is not only the cost but also the related equivalent income.
That also does not include the EVE Pilot cost of time in game time equivalent costs like PLEX use for game time.
Once those costs are added in the equation, the total profit will be less and total costs higher.
It will also increase the income in ISK per hour required to achieve the same results.

I didn't read this, but I'm almost certain a simple link to a spreadsheet would have been better.

@ $3 / hour internet cost = x million ISK / hr income at 590m (595m now) ISK for 1 PLEx. (7 x 1 hour / $3 = 7 hours = $21 = 1 PLEX.)

...
So, for around $32.95 x 10 (+/- additional administrative costs) = $329.50 = Free internet for life.

If you spewed this rubbish onto a wow forum
you'd probably be the smartest guy on the page. Here you're a guy who
can't do math.

Some sort of introductory paragraph would be keen.

Your OP just jumps into the middle of your complicated inner thinking without explaining much why we should care or try to follow your math.

Please fix this transgression, thanks.

What in the actual **** is the point of this ****?

the point of this thread is to show its actually a LOT better to spend 3 or 4 hours working at mcdonalds and buy plexes with that money than being in front of a monitor countless hours clicking f1 and headaches with market orders and this and that (bunch of bull) just to make the same or even less isks.


Isks income ratio:

1x work at mcdonalds: 10x playing eve



buddy program? what for? when you can just work couple hours more at mcdonalds and buy a character off the market already skilled and ready to go?

Hey OP you are really good with numbers, can you tell me which is the odd number out in this sequence?

1 11 22 23 44 88 ?

This thread is kind of pointless (not disregarding the op effort) but if youre playing eve suposedly youre not worrying about internet costs.

The game is just not for you, accept it and move on, stop playing.

Cause who the hell cares about internet costs in 2013 anymore, not anyones fault you live in a 3rd world country.

It does avoid me losses of costs and allows me to protect my work , rights, intellectual property and other properties.
I know that if I do lose a finite amount of time, resource, money, even ingame ISK, that I can use the record of loss to prevent recurrence.

Hey OP you are really good with numbers, can you tell me which is the odd number out in this sequence?

1 11 22 23 44 88 ?

ty, typo, I'll fix it.

While you are at it, its losing, not loosing.

Of course not, I was only referring to the fact that I can read or write on forums for free as compared to EVE Online game time for which I can only do by paying.

You are obviously turning my words around.

I can also browse the forums from another source than Monday to Friday in the weekends for free but there is no guarantee of the scheduling.
I will refine and transfer the ideas of this thread to another one to avoid highjacking.

Feel free to contribute positively.

You're stating equivalences that are only equivalent if in-game currency could freely be converted back to RL money.

Given that they cannot, unless you violate the EULA and ToS, this is a lot of work for very little return.

You can't, for instance, meta-game with this and break the market by manipulating LP payouts with infrequently traded items. You're not min-maxing fleet assembly charges.

But to each their own. Good luck in playing Wallet On-Line.

Blah, blah, blah.

There is no such thing as profit in eve when comparing to RL unless you are a kid. If you are NOT a kid and are turning a profit compared to real life, that is just sad.

Mine or whatever your profession is, corporate thief?, because it is fun. If you are playing because you can make equivilantly more $ per hour than real life, then how much more painful will it be when all that turns to virtual fire around you?

Yeah look i've just read this whole thread and OP seems to be mentally troubled.
I used to know a man who while very intelligent in a soulless, mechanical sort of way, would analyse himself into absolute paralysis maybe twice a year. He would then leave the law firm he owned to the care of partners and live on the streets drinking himself blank. Shiny suit for eight months, then shirtless dude with blood dried on his elbows.
He did this self medicating routine through his 30s and 40s and only recently got himslef locked up in a guarded care facility due to charges laid while he was vagrant. He represents himself in court and has successfully argued for more time to prepare his case, time which he uses getting lost in ever more impossible to control or measure detail.

Lots of luck OP, you seem to be already working for a minor faculty of your mind that is meant to work for you.
Let go, spend the money, enjoy yourself, rich man poor man both will be dust.

oh you roleplayers, you so cray-cray.

Edit: ... The one quoted in it's entirety above? Is this a roleplaying thread or is OP losing his grip on life's scrawny neck?
Serious question m8. Finding it hard to see how anybody could mistake this mess for sensible reasoning. Did you read it?

I play Eve and enjoy it = profit.

Easy really.

This smacks of university economics homework,is the original poster doing this as some sort of assessable assignment?


Regardless of that and despite all the typical General Discussion Ad Hominiem reaction to anything they do not understand ,,, I can actually see an interesting question behind this.

*****

Initial Premises --> Remove from consideration that some ppl may grind to make ISK as a personal challenge or simply because for them it is "fun". Also assume that you are free to either spend your time earning real money or the same time earning ISK in EVE.

1. As a new player you will progress much faster in the game by spending your time working for real money and plexing your character using the ISK for implants better ships and establishing thing slike PI planets.

2. Eventually you will reach a point where your in game ISK generation exceeds thePLEX you could buy working real time. This crossover point will be reached much earlier in a country with low real world pay rates.

3. how do you calculate this cross over point.

Your threads title misses a second D, R and P.

That said, i'll read it now.

Edit: This thread belongs to Market Discussion.
In your face, Doc Fury! XD

Character Bazaar trading still holds as most efficient for me.


I'll should be able to compare with other activities, and compare those other activities between themselves.

The comparison of costs is only valid if you only use your internet to play eve, and for no other purpose, otherwise you have to deduct and adjust for the time spent on reddit, imgur, xhamster while connected to eve.

Additionally, since isk comes in while you are sleeping, you need to adjust for this

I too can use a **** load of math to make myself seem intelligent.


The number of ****s I give = 0

The number of people who think theyre the space rainman = 5000 (approx.)

Now, if you take the number of ****s I give times the number of space rainmen, you once again arrive at the number of ****s I give.

Math proof: 5000 x 0 = 0.

Yeah! Math *****!

Have your 11000th like for that one.

I read every page and still don't know what is going on in this thread. Best I can tell, everytime I go AFK to poop, it costs me a couple million ISK.

I'm a bit troubled that you are switching back and forth between billions and millions, utilizing the "1.5m" isk format on your first post.

Is this how much RMT you would need to do to make EVE a viable basement dwelling income?

no

Sorry, where in the first post?

It seems the post was modified from 1.18 billion ISK to 1.18 m ISK and so forth.

It is obvious that 590m x2 = 1.18b isk, not 1.18 m ISK.

I wouldn't be surprised that there is an error in the calculation or that the post itself was changed.
I don't have a Read-only CD version of it.

---

I'm not and won't be trying to offer criticism services or disagree to increase arguments levels.
The point of this thread (as for most other of my threads) were not intended to argue.
If that is the case, and most of those replying prefer that to be the case, despite my efforts, we should make separate ones.
We could then review all the topics discussed and argue and make points to argue even if it leads to warfare.

Maybe we could get agreement to invest into blatant verbal argument and comments which would be more harsh in their tone.
Not that it would convey the meaning of what I intended, but if "most people" replying want it, why argue?

One of the worst limitation would be to create the conditions in which this could occur, like in a sandbox.

The most sad part of it is that the subjects are being changed into other meanings by arguments.
Some of those arguments being dissenting and worst.
There may be valid grounds for warfare, who knows.
I guess we can't find out without testing or trying.

$35 for a month (30 days+) is equal to 2 PLEX which is equal to 1.18m ISK (at 590m ISK per PLEX on the market in Jita IV).
That is equal to $35 for 720 hours (at 30 days x 24 hours) .
= 1.63m ISK / hr in relative equivalent costs. Or 3.26m ISK per hour = 1.63m ISK profit / hr. 4.89m ISK income - costs = 3.26m ISK profit.

If $55 for a month , it is equivalent to 3 PLEX at 1.77m ISK.
= 2.45m ISK / hr cost equivalent related to profit margin.

@ $5 / 3 hours internet costs = 42.5m ISK / hr income at 590m ISK for 1 PLEx. (4 x 3 hours = 12 hours = $20 = 1 PLEX.)

Here, and on

I too can use a **** load of math to make myself seem intelligent.


The number of ****s I give = 0

The number of people who think theyre the space rainman = 5000 (approx.)

Now, if you take the number of ****s I give times the number of space rainmen, you once again arrive at the number of ****s I give.

Math proof: 5000 x 0 = 0.

Yeah! Math *****!

Quit.... trying to divert me from caring for our family.

Not about you specifically, ...

Well, yes about me specifically and her too. They're more socially oriented, granted.
But it doesn't change the fact that others do have internet and so could she.
I don't want to get involved in political discussion here. Not that I am afraid or evasive.

I'm old and we're also planning to have a child.
The responsibility for me to care for those factors is not from a political system or even due to political factors.
The reason why rather is of greater scope.

Nice try.

Not falling for that one.

But +1 for effort

I think there are other people involved already so you won't have to be responsible.
At least not entirely as normally is.

a2+b2=c2 ??

Eve is a game and real life is real life.

We work to pay bills, we play to have fun. if working is more fun to you than Eve why not just get a 2nd job?

I have a 24/7 job since 1992.

I have a 24/7 job since 1992 + more than 2 jobs, obviously.

Thats $87,464 per year at minimum wage. $1.9 million over 22 years.


You're truly my hero.

Now, I'm pretty smart and mathematically inclined, but I could not find my way around your equations as well as I think you do.

It starts simple, and then you start combining terms in ways that don't flow or make any sense.

Interesting stuff, but damn your presentation is seriously lacking.