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Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll be working on this Calculations of Costs Compared to Ingame Income to Derivate the actual amount of real Ingame Profit.
I am busy with other things for now and should be back in around 4 to 5 hours to try to complete this thread or post.
I'll just throw in some numbers for now so that it is easier to see and compare.
This won't include all calculation except double the income to generate half of profit or 50% of profit due to cost margin.
Internet Cost: $35 for a month (30 days+) is equal to 2 PLEX which is equal to 1.18m ISK (at 590m ISK per PLEX on the market in Jita IV). That is equal to $35 for 720 hours (at 30 days x 24 hours) . = 1.63m ISK / hr in relative equivalent costs. Or 3.26m ISK per hour = 1.63m ISK profit / hr. 4.89m ISK income - costs = 3.26m ISK profit.
If $55 for a month , it is equivalent to 3 PLEX at 1.77m ISK. = 2.45m ISK / hr cost equivalent related to profit margin.
@ $5 / 3 hours internet costs = 42.5m ISK / hr income at 590m ISK for 1 PLEx. (4 x 3 hours = 12 hours = $20 = 1 PLEX.)
@ $40 / 25 hours internet costs = 47.2m ISK / hr income @ $35 / 21 hours = 56.1m ISK / hr = 1.18b ISK for 2 PLEX.
@ $100 / 100 hours = 1.77b ISK for 3 PLEX = 17.7m ISK / hr. @ $105 / 103 hours = 3.54b ISK for 6 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr equivalent cost related to profit margin amount.
(Notice the margin change to around 50% or double... Realize that it is not only the related equivalent income but also includes the relative costs.)
@ $210 / 206 hours = 7.08b ISK for 12 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr. @ $490 / 459 hours = 16.52b ISK for 28 PLEX = 35.99m ISK / hr.
Also note that the 17.7m ISK / hr in 100 hours is not only the cost but also the related equivalent income. That also does not include the EVE Pilot cost of time in game time equivalent costs like PLEX use for game time. Once those costs are added in the equation, the total profit will be less and total costs higher. It will also increase the income in ISK per hour required to achieve the same results. |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4090
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Your threads title misses a second D, R and P.
That said, i'll read it now. |

Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote:I'll be working on this Calculations of Costs Compared to Ingame Income to Derivate the actual amount of real Ingame Profit.
I am busy with other things for now and should be back in around 4 to 5 hours to try to complete this thread or post.
I'll just throw in some numbers for now so that it is easier to see and compare.
This won't include all calculation except double the income to generate half of profit or 50% of profit due to cost margin.
Internet Cost: $35 for a month (30 days+) is equal to 2 PLEX which is equal to 1.18m ISK (at 590m ISK per PLEX on the market in Jita IV). That is equal to $35 for 720 hours (at 30 days x 24 hours) . = 1.63m ISK / hr in relative equivalent costs. Or 3.26m ISK per hour = 1.63m ISK profit / hr. 4.89m ISK income - costs = 3.26m ISK profit.
If $55 for a month , it is equivalent to 3 PLEX at 1.77m ISK. = 2.45m ISK / hr cost equivalent related to profit margin.
@ $5 / 3 hours internet costs = 42.5m ISK / hr income at 590m ISK for 1 PLEx. (4 x 3 hours = 12 hours = $20 = 1 PLEX.)
@ $40 / 25 hours internet costs = 47.2m ISK / hr income @ $35 / 21 hours = 56.1m ISK / hr = 1.18b ISK for 2 PLEX.
@ $100 / 100 hours = 1.77b ISK for 3 PLEX = 17.7m ISK / hr. @ $105 / 103 hours = 3.54b ISK for 6 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr equivalent cost related to profit margin amount.
(Notice the margin change to around 50% or double... Realize that it is not only the related equivalent income but also includes the relative costs.)
@ $210 / 206 hours = 7.08b ISK for 12 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr. @ $490 / 459 hours = 16.52b ISK for 28 PLEX = 35.99m ISK / hr.
Also note that the 17.7m ISK / hr in 100 hours is not only the cost but also the related equivalent income. That also does not include the EVE Pilot cost of time in game time equivalent costs like PLEX use for game time. Once those costs are added in the equation, the total profit will be less and total costs higher. It will also increase the income in ISK per hour required to achieve the same results.
And.....?
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
759
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
*bloodburp
ooh
scuse me Yours in blood,-á
Dr. R McCandless MD, PhD, MSc, IDKFA, IDST, AFK, BRB, NOCLIP |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:This thread belongs to Market Discussion.
Yes, I wish too. I was going to put it in Market Discussion. However, it included lots of internet costs which are not ingame. I figured would not be an EVE Market Discussion.
I would like to link to it in Market Discussion as it does relate to the EVE Online ingame income and profit. That is also related to small and large business.
I didn't have the time to come back from my other business yet and almost had to go to work for 4 hours or more. I'll be back in a few hours. I just fixed 2 or 3 characters and bought a Mining Foreman Mindlink. |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1365
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Okay I read it three times and I still have no clue what you're talking about... are you comparing my internet connection costs with in-game profit or something? |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
6357
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
I too can use a **** load of math to make myself seem intelligent.
The number of ****s I give = 0
The number of people who think theyre the space rainman = 5000 (approx.)
Now, if you take the number of ****s I give times the number of space rainmen, you once again arrive at the number of ****s I give.
Math proof: 5000 x 0 = 0.
Yeah! Math *****! Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Corrections:
Internet Cost: ERROR #1: @ $5 / 3 hours internet costs = 42.5m ISK / hr income at 590m ISK for 1 PLEx. (4 x 3 hours / $5 = 12 hours = $20 = 1 PLEX.) = $49.16m ISK / hr instead of 42.5m ISK / hr as listed above.
@ $35 / 21 hours = 56.1m ISK / hr @ $40 / 25 hours internet costs = 47.2m ISK / hr income = 1.18b ISK for 2 PLEX.
To be Added: @ $60 / 37 hrs = 1.77b ISK for 3 PLEX = 47.8m ISK / hr @ $75 / 50 hrs = 2.36b ISK for 4 PLEX = 47.2m ISK / hr
ERROR #2: @ $100 / 100 hours = 2.95b ISK for 5 PLEX = 29.5m ISK / hr. @ $105 / 103 hours = 3.54b ISK for 6 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr equivalent cost related to profit margin amount.
ERROR #3: (Notice the margin change to around 50% or double... The above is 'Not even close to 50% or double.' Even though the following is true: Realize that it is not only the related equivalent income but also includes the relative costs.)
ERROR #4: Also note that the (17.7) 29.5m (instead) ISK / hr in 100 hours is not only the cost but also the related equivalent income. That also does not include the EVE Pilot cost of time in game time equivalent costs like PLEX use for game time. Once those costs are added in the equation, the total profit will be less and total costs higher. It will also increase the income in ISK per hour required to achieve the same results.
+ Internet Cost as 'A' / hours of time as 'B' = equivalent ingame market value in ISK as 'C' for amount of PLEX as 'D' covered by the Internet Cost ('A'). = million of ISK / hr as 'E' required to cover the internet cost equivalent & to deduce, to make a profit.
This compared to minimizing internet cost by only learning & trading on Bazaar.
One also has to include real cost with available costs & organize within budget. |

Baggo Hammers
156
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
"Derivate" is typically a noun. "Derive" works better and makes you look smarter. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
502
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
The comparison of costs is only valid if you only use your internet to play eve, and for no other purpose, otherwise you have to deduct and adjust for the time spent on reddit, imgur, xhamster while connected to eve.
Additionally, since isk comes in while you are sleeping, you need to adjust for this |
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
733
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
What in the actual **** is the point of this ****? |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Baggo Hammers wrote:"Derivate" is typically a noun. "Derive" works better and makes you look smarter. ty, typo, I'll fix it.
Rhivre wrote:The comparison of costs is only valid if you only use your internet to play eve, and for no other purpose, otherwise you have to deduct and adjust for the time spent on reddit, imgur, xhamster while connected to eve.
Additionally, since isk comes in while you are sleeping, you need to adjust for this The comparison of cost is in relation to the cost to actually use the internet for a period. It doesn't include multi-client which can reduce the cost although again that limitation occurs and can lead to losses. This comparison of cost is already including a mention of other costs.
I do not include internet time spent writing on forums or reading, and if this activity can be done without internet costs.
You do have to deduct and adject the time spent since if you only do update your skills to trade on the Bazaar you will limit your active internet login time in the EVE ingame client.
As for the ISK coming while sleeping, it is possible to adjust for it as well. I have no ISK coming while I sleep and I removed my PI installations. Most of my current income comes in the form of sales with the highest rate of return by the Trader.
In fact, the reason he succeeds so well is only due to the fact that he sells most of everyone else items and production. He also gets the best rates on those transactions and can do it from afar (within region). This doesn't include Market Discussion trading with stocks or other investment, or ISK for editing work. |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
I will refrain from derailing your thread. Weirdly enough, i sense a smart person in you. ^_^ |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
409
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
d/dx {e^(-pi*i)} = 0
I can post math too. Do I get a cookie?
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
735
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
None of this matters at the edge of scram range. But please continue. |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:None of this matters at the edge of scram range. But please continue. I can only answer for free from 9 to 4 weekdays.
I just lost my first jump clone going to null sec and trying to test if I could enter where I left items. I saved some screenshots. |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
502
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
I just realised, this is a stealth "nerf trading" post. |

xxVastorxx
Abh Empire Ex Cinere Scriptor
30
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 01:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
im confused. |

Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 02:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
THE POINT, MAN. GET TO IT.
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Morpheus Niminen
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 02:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
He's trying to figure out how to get "free" internet, assuming he converted isk to PLEX and then sold it for IRL cash. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4878
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 03:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Morpheus Niminen wrote:He's trying to figure out how to get "free" internet, assuming he converted isk to PLEX and then sold it for IRL cash. Start a lottery... There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Morpheus Niminen wrote:He's trying to figure out how to get "free" internet, assuming he converted isk to PLEX and then sold it for IRL cash. Start a lottery... Of course not, I was only referring to the fact that I can read or write on forums for free as compared to EVE Online game time for which I can only do by paying.
You are obviously turning my words around.
I can also browse the forums from another source than Monday to Friday in the weekends for free but there is no guarantee of the scheduling. I will refine and transfer the ideas of this thread to another one to avoid highjacking. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
751
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:I too can use a **** load of math to make myself seem intelligent.
The number of ****s I give = 0
The number of people who think theyre the space rainman = 5000 (approx.)
Now, if you take the number of ****s I give times the number of space rainmen, you once again arrive at the number of ****s I give.
Math proof: 5000 x 0 = 0.
Yeah! Math *****! And yet you cared enough to post....... Next time, prove you give not ***** by not posting anything, if you can stand it. Bob is the god of Wormholes.
That's all you need to know. |

Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate Hashashin Cartel
401
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote:I'll be working on this Calculations of Costs Compared to Ingame Income to Derive (not Derivate) the actual amount of real Ingame Profit.
I am busy with other things for now and should be back in around 4 to 5 hours to try to complete this thread or post.
I'll just throw in some numbers for now so that it is easier to see and compare.
This won't include all calculation except double the income to generate half of profit or 50% of profit due to cost margin.
Internet Cost: $35 for a month (30 days+) is equal to 2 PLEX which is equal to 1.18m ISK (at 590m ISK per PLEX on the market in Jita IV). That is equal to $35 for 720 hours (at 30 days x 24 hours) . = 1.63m ISK / hr in relative equivalent costs. Or 3.26m ISK per hour = 1.63m ISK profit / hr. 4.89m ISK income - costs = 3.26m ISK profit.
If $55 for a month , it is equivalent to 3 PLEX at 1.77m ISK. = 2.45m ISK / hr cost equivalent related to profit margin.
@ $5 / 3 hours internet costs = 42.5m ISK / hr income at 590m ISK for 1 PLEx. (4 x 3 hours = 12 hours = $20 = 1 PLEX.)
@ $40 / 25 hours internet costs = 47.2m ISK / hr income @ $35 / 21 hours = 56.1m ISK / hr = 1.18b ISK for 2 PLEX.
@ $100 / 100 hours = 1.77b ISK for 3 PLEX = 17.7m ISK / hr. @ $105 / 103 hours = 3.54b ISK for 6 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr equivalent cost related to profit margin amount.
(Notice the margin change to around 50% or double... Realize that it is not only the related equivalent income but also includes the relative costs.)
@ $210 / 206 hours = 7.08b ISK for 12 PLEX = 34.36m ISK / hr. @ $490 / 459 hours = 16.52b ISK for 28 PLEX = 35.99m ISK / hr.
Also note that the 17.7m ISK / hr in 100 hours is not only the cost but also the related equivalent income. That also does not include the EVE Pilot cost of time in game time equivalent costs like PLEX use for game time. Once those costs are added in the equation, the total profit will be less and total costs higher. It will also increase the income in ISK per hour required to achieve the same results.
I didn't read this, but I'm almost certain a simple link to a spreadsheet would have been better. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:I didn't read this, but I'm almost certain a simple link to a spreadsheet would have been better. 'A (simple) link to a spreadsheet' from where would have been or would be better??
I could still fix it if it is possible.
You can also EVE mail me if that is more preferable to you as means of communication. |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vis Aldent wrote: @ $3 / hour internet cost = x million ISK / hr income at 590m (595m now) ISK for 1 PLEx. (7 x 1 hour / $3 = 7 hours = $21 = 1 PLEX.)
That is equal to over 84.28m ISK per hour.
Vis Aldent wrote: ... So, for around $32.95 x 10 (+/- additional administrative costs) = $329.50 = Free internet for life.
That is equal to 130k ISK / hour or even less if that life term is good for over 10 years.
Add $15 or $20 for a buddy (or more) which is equal to another PLEX for the cost of 1 month subscription. That would further increase the cost of making a profit on all the pilots.
Any subscription which is 3 months or longer (like those yearly subscription rates) would be lowering the profit margin. (Compared to the 1 month terms that is. Also to note, it is less costly to pay 1 month than use a PLEX to convert to subscription time. The difference is about 25% which was the limited US sale value. I have to increase my asset capital. I am better to buy PLEX from CCP and sell PLEX on the ingame market (for ingame ISK) until then.
The income difference ratio is 648 times greater, whether in amplitude, parabolically or hyperbolically or other. |

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
437
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Okay, well check this out though. First of all you're throwing to many big words at me. Okay now, because I don't understand them I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect. Watch your mouth, and help me with the sale. Not today spaghetti. |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Don't worry Sexy Cakes, it's just meant for graphical representation so to speed up reading data in some form...
(It doesn't make the extraction of data for reuse easier though...)
https://secure.eveonline.com/buy/ 12 Month 360 days + Advanced Cerebral Accelerator - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $8.00 a month $95.95 total You save $88.45
= divided by 12 = $8 / mth @ 720 hours per month = $0.011 / hr extra cost additional to the previous equivalent costs / income . But that is not the number we are looking for. What we need is the equivalent amount in ISK per hour compared to PLEX value. $95.95 - 2 PLEX @ $34.99 = $60.96 - 2 PLEX @ $34.99 = $25.97 - 1 PLEX @ $19.95 = $6.02 = 5 PLEX = @ 607,180,001.00 for 3 in Jita IV - Moon 4 Navy, and 2 @ 607,000,000.00 = 3,035,540,003 ISK = 3.035b ISK. 3.035b ISK / 12 months = 252,961,666 ISK = 252m ISK divided by 720 hours in one month = 351,335.64 ISK / hr = 351k ISK / hr. Minus the value of the Advanced Cerebral Accelerator (check in contracts as it's not listed on the market). + the previous 130k ISK / hr or less = 481, 335 ISK / hr.
@ $8.99 / mth (for 6 months, $53.95) = + $0.01248 / hr @ 10.32 / mth (for 3 months, $30.95) = + $0.0143 / hr @ $13.95 / mth (for 1 months) = + $0.019375 / hr = $27.9 / 2 months = 1 PLEX / 2 mnths = + 421,527 ISK /hr 84.28m ISK per hour + 421,527 ISK /hr = 84.701m ISK / hr.
A little bit more or less with normal EVE Time @ 3 months @ $38.95 6 months @ 71.70 12 months @ 131.40 (I'll have to calculate the exact ratio later.) But the point is to find the equivalent value in PLEX (only full amount, no remainders). Compare that amount with the ingame market value which value fluctuates.
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Holgrak Blacksmith
European Research and Industry Corp
154
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
If you spewed this rubbish onto a wow forum you'd probably be the smartest guy on the page. Here you're a guy who can't do math. |

Vis Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Holgrak Blacksmith wrote:If you spewed this rubbish onto a wow forum you'd probably be the smartest guy on the page. Here you're a guy who can't do math. I didn't have the time to calculate the last parts at normal EVE time rates.
Nevertheless, the rates are a bit higher (even if that is by a very small amount).
The rates of equivalent ingame costs varies between 0.5 million ingame ISK per hour to over 84 million ingame ISK per hour.
There are also other costs, like collateral losses which I will probably link in the Market Discussions later on. |
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