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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
611
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 12:44:00 -
[181] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:This the main reason that something has to be changed regarding reinforcement timers and force projection. CFC, CFC lovers and CFC apologists will try to use an argument that goes something like this => "if you change the timers then we'll be able to stomp over everyone" or "that would hurt the little guys". This is not true.
If a coalition of 37,000 players want to kill a little guy, timers mean zip, there is nothing that the little guys can do about it.
However, if timers are changed it means the little guys can choose a time that's not chosen by 37,000 players, and don't have to show up at a time chosen by those 37,000 players to get wiped out by a massive supercap, capital and sub cap fleet that magically appeared in the system from the other side of the galaxy.
History has shown that the bigger your empire gets, the harder it is to defend yourself against "the little guy". The longer the routes are for your armies and navy. The more spread out your forces need to be to defend your massive territory. The longer it takes for intel to get past along.
For whatever reason CCP decided that these rules of massive empires didn't need to be in game and this is the result. 37,000 accounts, which is ludicrous, able to squash anyone in game because they get automatic messages from the server whenever anything they own is attacked, they get to choose when their territory is defended, they don't need to worry about the size of their territory and they can move the biggest ships in the game faster through bridging than the smallest fastest ships can move via gates.
WTF are they smoking in Iceland? They are smoking video game reality, you should try it sometimes. Without force projection, most of the EVE fights that make the REAL WORLD news don't happen. Without reinforcement mechanics, the "blue doughnut" probably becomes a reality in less than a week (not because of goons steam rolling, but because of standard human aversion to loss ie people will just stop putting up structures in null rather than deal with the headace of having to replace them all the time...kinda like how people will quit rather than be forced out of high sec because this is a video game). What we have today (and what you always miss) is a system that works (reinforcement timers, local, cloaks and all). What you always propose (like that pure brilliance you post in features and ideas) doesn't take into account many actually knowable factors (let alone the less obvious or totally unknown factors). Your thinking never takes into account the 2 main (but not the only) factors that always make you wrong : -Basic human nature as expressed in a video game (ie human nature, but in a voluntary venue that the player can walk away from, unlike real life) -The fact that most (not many, most) people won't react like you in a given situation (making your narrow perspective predictions useless, because everyone would need to be a clone of Infinity Ziona for things to wrok the way you think they would). But as others like to say, don't let reason and logic stand in the way of a good grrrr...goons hate post. The game is not about making "the real news". Its about space ships in space.
What we have is a completely broken system - most people I have spoken with agree, sov mechanics are terrible. That you would try to say they work pretty much sums up your entire post. Complete garbage. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
839
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 12:45:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP wants to sell this game to people who have jobs and families, not just weirdos who can be online whenever.
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March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
824
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 12:47:00 -
[183] - Quote
Mythrandier wrote: Care to quantify that? Provide some proof maybe, that Goons have been a detriment to EVE?
without goons i would need to spend 99% less time to using these forums (no need to skip their useless posts).
Mythrandier wrote: From where I am sitting, Goons create content, they bring in new players and they provide CCP with essentially free marketing. Thus improving the game for all of us.
in RL we have lots of people who "creates content". Most of them aren't people you would like to have next to you. The same can be said about Eve Online and goons: yes, they create "content". But it's very questionable how big part of playerbase enjoys this "content".
Mythrandier wrote: Fake Edit : No, IGÇÖm not a Goon alt, I have no association with CFC.
you are wannabee |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3170
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 12:54:00 -
[184] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is not about making "the real news". Its about space ships in space. What we have is a completely broken system - most people I have spoken with agree, sov mechanics are terrible. That you would try to say they work pretty much sums up your entire post. Complete garbage.
You never had much formal schooling, have you. I'm just goingn to start turning your posts into links for your education. Because I do think of the children.
A 'completely" broken system would have no one holding SOV, and no sov changing hands. What happened after ccp went from that crazy Pos based sov system to the current one is that sov strated changing hands faster. It's not perfect, but the truth is that people will complain about ANY sov system.
But like I said, don't let logic stop you here, it's never stopped you anywhere else lol. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
611
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 13:00:00 -
[185] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is not about making "the real news". Its about space ships in space. What we have is a completely broken system - most people I have spoken with agree, sov mechanics are terrible. That you would try to say they work pretty much sums up your entire post. Complete garbage. You never had much formal schooling, have you. I'm just goingn to start turning your posts into links for your education. Because I do think of the children. A 'completely" broken system would have no one holding SOV, and no sov changing hands. What happened after ccp went from that crazy Pos based sov system to the current one is that sov strated changing hands faster. It's not perfect, but the truth is that people will complain about ANY sov system. But like I said, don't let logic stop you here, it's never stopped you anywhere else lol. You're already educating me on how deluded and obsessively jealous some people get over video games :)
Take a break from EvE. It'd do you the world of good. Then you can come back and post without all the emotive anguish you appear to have towards me. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3171
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 13:05:00 -
[186] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is not about making "the real news". Its about space ships in space. What we have is a completely broken system - most people I have spoken with agree, sov mechanics are terrible. That you would try to say they work pretty much sums up your entire post. Complete garbage. You never had much formal schooling, have you. I'm just goingn to start turning your posts into links for your education. Because I do think of the children. A 'completely" broken system would have no one holding SOV, and no sov changing hands. What happened after ccp went from that crazy Pos based sov system to the current one is that sov strated changing hands faster. It's not perfect, but the truth is that people will complain about ANY sov system. But like I said, don't let logic stop you here, it's never stopped you anywhere else lol. You're already educating me on how deluded and obsessively jealous some people get over video games :) Take a break from EvE. It'd do you the world of good. Then you can come back and post without all the emotive anguish you appear to have towards me.
lol. you must work at a movie theater, because you're a great projector.
The point is that it is (to use the words of another poster) you character flaws that keep you on the wrong side of truth all the time. No big deal, to each his own. But damn dude, you and Dinsdale should be roomates or something.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1267
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 13:06:00 -
[187] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The game is not about making "the real news". Its about space ships in space. What we have is a completely broken system - most people I have spoken with agree, sov mechanics are terrible. That you would try to say they work pretty much sums up your entire post. Complete garbage. You never had much formal schooling, have you. I'm just goingn to start turning your posts into links for your education. Because I do think of the children. A 'completely" broken system would have no one holding SOV, and no sov changing hands. What happened after ccp went from that crazy Pos based sov system to the current one is that sov strated changing hands faster. It's not perfect, but the truth is that people will complain about ANY sov system. But like I said, don't let logic stop you here, it's never stopped you anywhere else lol. You're already educating me on how deluded and obsessively jealous some people get over video games :) Take a break from EvE. It'd do you the world of good. Then you can come back and post without all the emotive anguish you appear to have towards me.
Wow, didn't I spend like, 3 pages arguing with you over your claiming not to be butthurt about those sov timers?
Also, I would go ahead and spin your own advice around at you. Take a break from EVE. Then come back without all the emo anguish you have against the Goons and the sov system. Yes, the sov system sucks, but not for any of hte reasons you seem to be so very upset about it.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mythrandier
Spacelane Salvage
114
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 13:25:00 -
[188] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: without goons i would need to spend 99% less time to using these forums (no need to skip their useless posts).
Yeah ok, IGÇÖll concede that point to you.
March rabbit wrote: in RL we have lots of people who "creates content". Most of them aren't people you would like to have next to you. The same can be said about Eve Online and goons: yes, they create "content". But it's very questionable how big part of playerbase enjoys this "content".
Well events like Burn Jita are very, very popular, even outside of Goondom. As to how many people enjoyed it, without surveys of public opinion all we can do here is bash opinions together, that never ends well!
All I can offer is that every time EVE has made then new and I get people at work pointing me to articles on the BBC news site, with comments of GÇ£you play that game donGÇÖt you?GÇ¥ its always the Goons that created it. Name one other Internet Spaceships entity that has managed that?
March rabbit wrote:you are wannabee
Haha, I donGÇÖt think so. IGÇÖve done the null sec thing (well, TRIBE, if that counts!) and I think I will stick with FW from now on. All the fun of Null PVP with out all the **** that goes with it.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --á D. Adams. |
Tron 3K
Ship Spinning Industries
147
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 13:37:00 -
[189] - Quote
Not sure if its ever been mentioned but why not have a thing like, I'll bring up Planetside 2 jsut because it was the last game that I played that might work for this but in a different way. In that you got a group of players in a vicinity to take over said certain area..
Instead why not use that and get rid of timers but instead of people just sitting around like the do in that game ticking a way slowly. CCP introduces a new line of module that produces that slow tick on something out in space in each SOV area. Not only would there be plenty of fights as this would send a flag to whoever owns that SOV but there would be plenty of people defending and attacking.. Only thing I would change about the whole Planetside idea is figure out a way so it doesn't just keep changing over and over as that'll get quite boring kind of part of the reason why I quit becaus there really was no sense of accomplishment. I think if you can figure out way to get rid of timers and have some sort of thing like this where you still feel accomplished there would be more fights and I don't think CFC would be as big as there would be constant battles (in theory) always going on in all of their SOV space..
Just an idea.. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1473
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 14:27:00 -
[190] - Quote
Tron 3K wrote:Only thing I would change about the whole Planetside idea is figure out a way so it doesn't just keep changing over and over as that'll get quite boring kind of part of the reason why I quit becaus there really was no sense of accomplishment. Which is exactly why we have timers. |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
612
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 14:46:00 -
[191] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Tron 3K wrote:Only thing I would change about the whole Planetside idea is figure out a way so it doesn't just keep changing over and over as that'll get quite boring kind of part of the reason why I quit becaus there really was no sense of accomplishment. Which is exactly why we have timers. And what exactly is wrong with bouncing back and forth. If you have a balanced alliance you should be able to keep a system. If you don't have a balanced alliance like mainly US CFC then you fail and should lose your systems.
All wars have victories and losses, lose ground and gain ground. WWI trench warfare was a constant battle to gain an inch and then lose an inch for years and years.
Its a lot better than this slow CFC creeping across half the map so far. The bigger CFC gets the less people will fight until there is no fighting.
Won't that be fun. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3173
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 14:55:00 -
[192] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: And what exactly is wrong with bouncing back and forth. If you have a balanced alliance you should be able to keep a system. If you don't have a balanced alliance like mainly US CFC then you fail and should lose your systems.
EVE online allows and encourages people to group together, It doesn't force people to do so across timezones and languages.
The most likely end result is that people simply stop claiming sov. THEN the game is broken. The current situation works because it allows people to gain something in null sec without the frustration of logging in the next day to find all those gains reversed.
Not surprising that you can't see why what you advocate would be a disaster.
Quote: All wars have victories and losses, lose ground and gain ground. WWI trench warfare was a constant battle to gain an inch and then lose an inch for years and years.
Which is why it's not like that anymore. It was stupid, as stupid as armys lining up to get shot at 50 years prior to WWI. As militaries caught up to the technology, so did CCP (by instituting timers that stopped unfun pingponging).
Quote:
Its a lot better than this slow CFC.. BoB.. The russians The NC creeping across half the map so far. The bigger CFC -whatever the next coalition- gets the less people will fight until there is no fighting.
Won't that be fun.
Fixed that last part. Historical Context is an actual thing. |
Tron 3K
Ship Spinning Industries
147
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:00:00 -
[193] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Tron 3K wrote:Only thing I would change about the whole Planetside idea is figure out a way so it doesn't just keep changing over and over as that'll get quite boring kind of part of the reason why I quit becaus there really was no sense of accomplishment. Which is exactly why we have timers.
No you have timers to carebear it up so people know when exactly you'll be on to attack.. Anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves. I don't know how people don't see that as the biggest carebear of all.. |
Tron 3K
Ship Spinning Industries
147
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:05:00 -
[194] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Quote: All wars have victories and losses, lose ground and gain ground. WWI trench warfare was a constant battle to gain an inch and then lose an inch for years and years.
Which is why it's not like that anymore. It was stupid, as stupid as armys lining up to get shot at 50 years prior to WWI. As militaries caught up to the technology, so did CCP (by instituting timers that stopped unfun pingponging). Fixed that last part. Historical Context is an actual thing.
Oh so instead of what we did in WWI and WWII we went back to us fighting the british where everyone marches in a big long line and then fires at the same time. Cause thats what Timers mimic.. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
930
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:14:00 -
[195] - Quote
The anti-CFC/large alliance waffle here is the most short sighted garbage I have ever read in GD and thats saying something
Just quit now
I cant be bother explaining how monumentally incorrect you are High Priestess Designate, Heir to The Vestibule of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
930
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:15:00 -
[196] - Quote
Tron 3K wrote: everyone marches in a big long line and then fires at the same time. Cause thats what Timers mimic..
.
So... like naval warfare in history until after WWII? High Priestess Designate, Heir to The Vestibule of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
612
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:24:00 -
[197] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Tron 3K wrote: everyone marches in a big long line and then fires at the same time. Cause thats what Timers mimic..
. So... like naval warfare in history until after WWII? Lol more like medieval warfare. Naval battles until the invention of over the horizon radar were almost always spontaneous engagements. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3175
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:28:00 -
[198] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:The anti-CFC/large alliance waffle here is the most short sighted garbage I have ever read in GD and thats saying something
Just quit now
I cant be bother explaining how monumentally incorrect you are +1
It's biases and prejudiced that produce "short sighted" perspectives.
You can see it in the "pos siphon" discussion, some people were all like "take that goons" while not realizing that as things stand the device could end up helping goons tuirn a very nice profit (some of the matterials stolen are "lost in transit" so even the aware alliance will lose something, probably driving prices up which benifits the current large allaince mon holders...ie Goos lol).
A coaltion of 35k characters would LOVE to see reinforcment timers go away, but the "solo" types can grasp why the idea is supremely foolish.
I've been in smallish null alliances fightgin big groups (usually goons). The ref timer gives you time to make (or buy) friends to come help you against the big guys (Goons). Without those Ref timers the wars i fought in as a member of Raiden and NCDot against Goons and co wouldn't have lasted weeks/months. They'd have lasted hours.
Everyone one of these clueless "solo" types should be rounded up and forced into a "Malcanis' Law Re-education camp". |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
840
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:30:00 -
[199] - Quote
Imagine what warfare would be like if people only did it an hour or two a day or maybe only on weekends when they had some free time from their jobs, families, social activities, and other hobbies. That's the only kind of warfare Eve needs to simulate you dumb nerds.
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
930
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:32:00 -
[200] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Lol more like medieval warfare. Naval battles until the invention of over the horizon radar were almost always spontaneous engagements.
Yup confirming lots of "firing" in medieval warfare.... High Priestess Designate, Heir to The Vestibule of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh |
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Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
997
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:14:00 -
[201] - Quote
When I read about 35,557 members of an entity in EVE, I read 35,556 people not playing EVE properly.
You're supposed to work your way to the top and run off with the ISK and Goods.
Not doing this is clearly some 'Star trek' doctrine where money no longer exists and everybody is happy (except the guys handed red shirts, however we never seem to hear much from them after an away mission).
Come on, close something down. One man destroyed BOB. There's 35,556 people failing to reach their potential.
GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûÇGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ-á-á-á-á-á GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûêGûÇGûê GûêGûæGûê GûæGûêGûæ GûêGûÇGûä GûæGûêGûæ-á-á-á-á-á GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûä GûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇGûæGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
935
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:34:00 -
[202] - Quote
Spurty wrote:When I read about 35,557 members of an entity in EVE, I read 35,556 people not playing EVE properly. You're supposed to work your way to the top and run off with the ISK and Goods. Not doing this is clearly some 'Star trek' doctrine where money no longer exists and everybody is happy (except the guys handed red shirts, however we never seem to hear much from them after an away mission). Come on, close something down. One man destroyed BOB. There's 35,556 people failing to reach their potential.
Anarchy is boring and pooh High Priestess Designate, Heir to The Vestibule of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1422
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:35:00 -
[203] - Quote
To me goons remind me of when i was a kid and i watched WWF... they are the "bad guy"... they are the ones we love to hate...
they provide a necassary antagonist that provides the content of eve. without them someone else like the bob of old would have to take thier place. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1422
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:36:00 -
[204] - Quote
Spurty wrote:When I read about 35,557 members of an entity in EVE, I read 35,556 people not playing EVE properly. You're supposed to work your way to the top and run off with the ISK and Goods. Not doing this is clearly some 'Star trek' doctrine where money no longer exists and everybody is happy (except the guys handed red shirts, however we never seem to hear much from them after an away mission). Come on, close something down. One man destroyed BOB. There's 35,556 people failing to reach their potential.
says the guy in a red shirt There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
842
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:49:00 -
[205] - Quote
Spurty wrote:When I read about 35,557 members of an entity in EVE, I read 35,556 people not playing EVE properly. You're supposed to work your way to the top and run off with the ISK and Goods. Not doing this is clearly some 'Star trek' doctrine where money no longer exists and everybody is happy (except the guys handed red shirts, however we never seem to hear much from them after an away mission). Come on, close something down. One man destroyed BOB. There's 35,556 people failing to reach their potential.
It's already happened. The thing is, goons are not defined by our membership in an in-game organization. So even if GoonWaffe went the way of Goonfleet, there would still be goons gooning up Eve as goonily as goons can goon.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
612
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:59:00 -
[206] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Imagine what warfare would be like if people only did it an hour or two a day or maybe only on weekends when they had some free time from their jobs, families, social activities, and other hobbies. That's the only kind of warfare Eve needs to simulate you dumb nerds.
So you want to be immune from losing space in EvE with your 35000+ people because you have to work and sleep and spend time with family?
That's a **** poor excuse for keeping the timers. There were no timers years ago when EvE had no POS and alliances managed to hold together and keep space to themselves by actually fighting for it. I'm pretty sure they had to work and sleep and poop too. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
935
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:07:00 -
[207] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Johnny Marzetti wrote:Imagine what warfare would be like if people only did it an hour or two a day or maybe only on weekends when they had some free time from their jobs, families, social activities, and other hobbies. That's the only kind of warfare Eve needs to simulate you dumb nerds.
So you want to be immune from losing space in EvE with your 35000+ people because you have to work and sleep and spend time with family? That's a **** poor excuse for keeping the timers. There were no timers years ago when EvE had no POS and alliances managed to hold together and keep space to themselves by actually fighting for it. I'm pretty sure they had to work and sleep and poop too.
You just tread on a troll-mine
Dont worry soldier, Ill take your watch back to your kid
High Priestess Designate, Heir to The Vestibule of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh |
Laserak
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:08:00 -
[208] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:So you want to be immune from losing space in EvE
I would dearly love to lose all our space and move into NPC 0.0 like in the days of yore. I really just want someone to invade us, really bad. Maybe one of those supercapital powerhouses I keep hearing about.
Please invade us somebody
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
612
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:15:00 -
[209] - Quote
Laserak wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So you want to be immune from losing space in EvE I would dearly love to lose all our space and move into NPC 0.0 like in the days of yore. I really just want someone to invade us, really bad. Maybe one of those supercapital powerhouses I keep hearing about. Please invade us somebody Lol. You'll be waiting a while. Test flopped like a wet tissue, abandoned Fountain and Delve without a fight. Their pets ran away as fast as they could from PB and surrounding regions and then sold you those regions along with their stations. No one tried to take any of the vacated space. No one tried to defend it. Why?
There really isn't any other 35000 man coalition and the stronger CFC gets the weaker the rest get. I don't see any chance of an invasion.
We're stuck with a space rental simulator I think.
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Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
844
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:18:00 -
[210] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Johnny Marzetti wrote:Imagine what warfare would be like if people only did it an hour or two a day or maybe only on weekends when they had some free time from their jobs, families, social activities, and other hobbies. That's the only kind of warfare Eve needs to simulate you dumb nerds.
So you want to be immune from losing space in EvE with your 35000+ people because you have to work and sleep and spend time with family? That's a **** poor excuse for keeping the timers. There were no timers years ago when EvE had no POS and alliances managed to hold together and keep space to themselves by actually fighting for it. I'm pretty sure they had to work and sleep and poop too.
There's probably some market research at CCP that says poopsocking sperglords aren't a worthwhile market segment.
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