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Adisa N'kiru	Posted - 2006.02.01 21:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: RedClaws euhm... you can slow light , even stop it... it has been done , read up on some scientific articles if you're intrested It doesn't actually move slower--the material causes the path of light to become longer because of the light having to bounce more because it is inhibited by atoms and other particles in the way, IIRC. Thus it takes longer for it to move through the material. Actually you can. You're right on the bumping but it's not the longer path that does the trick. Light actually is slowed down as explained neatly in this article.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.01 21:56:00 - [32] Originally by: Adisa N'kiru Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: RedClaws euhm... you can slow light , even stop it... it has been done , read up on some scientific articles if you're intrested It doesn't actually move slower--the material causes the path of light to become longer because of the light having to bounce more because it is inhibited by atoms and other particles in the way, IIRC. Thus it takes longer for it to move through the material. Actually you can. You're right on the bumping but it's not the longer path that does the trick. Light actually is slowed down as explained neatly in this article. Hmmm it never actually explains it, it simply references you to a Nature article... -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Jentai Cylor	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Boonaki Next thing is the laws of physics. Given enough technology what we think of as laws (sound barrier, manned flight, going to the moon") may just be something to overcome. You cannot break the laws of physics. It may be possible to bypass them. For example, warp drive. Originally by: Boonaki What would happen if you could slow light down to travel at a 100 KPH? You cannot slow light. You can make it bounce around a lot so that overall it moves much slower. Originally by: Boonaki What if you could generate a gravity field without mass? Nothing rules that out in modern physics. Originally by: Boonaki What if you could change an objects mass without adding or subtracting mass? Conservation of energy. I wouldn't assume anything. All the laws are defined by our current understanding. Which in a nutshell means we can't assume anything. For example: Why can't light be slowed? Because we currently lack the technology to affect the atoms directly? Because an atom is actually a physical item at some point we will learn to manipulate it, and probably learn to adjust its speed if we desired to.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Jentai Cylor Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Boonaki Next thing is the laws of physics. Given enough technology what we think of as laws (sound barrier, manned flight, going to the moon") may just be something to overcome. You cannot break the laws of physics. It may be possible to bypass them. For example, warp drive. Originally by: Boonaki What would happen if you could slow light down to travel at a 100 KPH? You cannot slow light. You can make it bounce around a lot so that overall it moves much slower. Originally by: Boonaki What if you could generate a gravity field without mass? Nothing rules that out in modern physics. Originally by: Boonaki What if you could change an objects mass without adding or subtracting mass? Conservation of energy. I wouldn't assume anything. All the laws are defined by our current understanding. Which in a nutshell means we can't assume anything. For example: Why can't light be slowed? Because we currently lack the technology to affect the atoms directly? Because an atom is actually a physical item at some point we will learn to manipulate it, and probably learn to adjust its speed if we desired to. Further science doesn't let you break the laws of physics. It simply might find a way to bypass them. The laws still hold. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:26:00 - [35] Lol ppl, cant u even stay on topic? there are about 9349569439563 other things that arent quite in line with the laws of physics. for example: 1. the acceleration rate of ships... if some of you has flown a fast aircraft (a military or aerobatics one) you will know what i mean. 7-8g's is about how much most normal people can sustain before they "shut off". 8g is roughly 80m/s^2. That means that an object should gain 80m/s of speed each second. In eve, anything smaller than a cruiser accelerates much faster... which means that in an inty, which goes from 0 to 4-5km/s in a couple of seconds, you would be literally squashed against the wall of your pod... 2. the attempt to make a "red shift" effect during warp...
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:43:00 - [36] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/02/2006 22:43:37 Originally by: Breed Love Lol ppl, cant u even stay on topic? there are about 9349569439563 other things that arent quite in line with the laws of physics. for example: 1. the acceleration rate of ships... if some of you has flown a fast aircraft (a military or aerobatics one) you will know what i mean. 7-8g's is about how much most normal people can sustain before they "shut off". 8g is roughly 80m/s^2. That means that an object should gain 80m/s of speed each second. In eve, anything smaller than a cruiser accelerates much faster... which means that in an inty, which goes from 0 to 4-5km/s in a couple of seconds, you would be literally squashed against the wall of your pod... Read the prime fiction. Read WHY you're in a pod. Quote: 2. the attempt to make a "red shift" effect during warp... Never seen such a thing. Shouldn't exist as the outside of your view is simulated. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Zappapapa	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:46:00 - [37] Light cannot be slowed down. In the above mentioned link the transmission of light from one location to another is slowed by causing interference. The actual speed of light on a small scale is still the same, it just "bounces around" more. Also, there is a real reason why light cannot be slowed. The concept of speed is really just a form of energy known as kinetic energy. In order to slow something down you take energy away from it. For massive objects the energy E is equal to 1/2 mass velocity^2. So if you take away three quarters of an object's energy then its speed will be halved. This is the approach used in the above article to cool the particles. Bombarding them with light transfers some of the particles' energy into reflected photons, slowing them down. Light on the other hand is different. Since light has no mass the normal equation of kinetic energy does not apply. Instead the energy of light is related to the frequency of it where E = h * f. h is a constant known as planck's constant. In the case of light if you take away energy from a photon it doesn't slow at all, rather its frequency decreases. This effect can be seen in gravitaional redshifting. Large objects create enough of a gravitational field so that as light moves away from it the frequency decreases causing it to be more red. Anyway, bottom line is that light CANNOT be slowed down due to it's unique massless characteristics; however, it can be interfered with so that its point to point velocity is smaller.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/02/2006 22:43:37 Originally by: Breed Love Lol ppl, cant u even stay on topic? there are about 9349569439563 other things that arent quite in line with the laws of physics. for example: 1. the acceleration rate of ships... if some of you has flown a fast aircraft (a military or aerobatics one) you will know what i mean. 7-8g's is about how much most normal people can sustain before they "shut off". 8g is roughly 80m/s^2. That means that an object should gain 80m/s of speed each second. In eve, anything smaller than a cruiser accelerates much faster... which means that in an inty, which goes from 0 to 4-5km/s in a couple of seconds, you would be literally squashed against the wall of your pod... Read the prime fiction. Read WHY you're in a pod. I've read that, now go read some books on physics and umm maybe anatomy, then calculate what kind of forces you will be exposed to. Assume the pod to be roughly 2 m in diameter and the density of the liquid inside to be about the same as that of water. Now look in the anatomy book for the pressure that the human body can be exposed to (if its there...) Compare the results... Come back here with an answer. Good luck.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:57:00 - [39] Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/02/2006 22:43:37 Originally by: Breed Love Lol ppl, cant u even stay on topic? there are about 9349569439563 other things that arent quite in line with the laws of physics. for example: 1. the acceleration rate of ships... if some of you has flown a fast aircraft (a military or aerobatics one) you will know what i mean. 7-8g's is about how much most normal people can sustain before they "shut off". 8g is roughly 80m/s^2. That means that an object should gain 80m/s of speed each second. In eve, anything smaller than a cruiser accelerates much faster... which means that in an inty, which goes from 0 to 4-5km/s in a couple of seconds, you would be literally squashed against the wall of your pod... Read the prime fiction. Read WHY you're in a pod. I've read that, now go read some books on physics and umm maybe anatomy, then calculate what kind of forces you will be exposed to. Assume the pod to be roughly 2 m in diameter and the density of the liquid inside to be about the same as that of water. Now look in the anatomy book for the pressure that the human body can be exposed to (if its there...) Compare the results... Come back here with an answer. Good luck. You can't accelerate to 4km/s or the like without an MWD, and an MWD obviously uses some sort of warp principle as it is a... micro...warp...drive. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Cairhien	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:59:00 - [40] Edited by: Cairhien on 01/02/2006 23:00:34 This is supposed to be a fun topic. Anyway my complant is that I can use a mining laser to transport ore through space with a laser, then it will reconstitue into my cargo hold. If I can use a mining laser to eat rock, why can't I do the same with a ships hull after the shields are down Just think how much trit you can get from eating a titan.
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:01:00 - [41] ok forget MWD, jump into a shuttle and accelerate with about 60g's. Still alive? Strange, you shouldnt be..
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:02:00 - [42] And besides, as a friend of mine pointed out... even if you are ok in your pod... how the feck does your crew survive?
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:08:00 - [43] Camara drones...yuk Okay old system before the look at function...believable (I still didnt like it) Okay new "Look at" options and drones. So that means the roids even have camera drones? Example: Looking at that Veld roid 95km away?!? And then pulling another 50km out?!? Yuk! please rewrite that piece of EVE fiction
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Saeris Tal'Urduar Camara drones...yuk Okay old system before the look at function...believable (I still didnt like it) Okay new "Look at" options and drones. So that means the roids even have camera drones? Example: Looking at that Veld roid 95km away?!? And then pulling another 50km out?!? Yuk! please rewrite that piece of EVE fiction The view is just simulated... the camera drone isn't moving with your view of course. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Breed Love And besides, as a friend of mine pointed out... even if you are ok in your pod... how the feck does your crew survive? Well hell if they have warp drive they better have inertial dampers by now -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Saeris Tal'Urduar	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Dark Shikari The view is just simulated... the camera drone isn't moving with your view of course. So why not just say; Every ship is equiped with a short (100km) hi-res scanner, that allows the pod pilot to look at (in detail) other ships and celestial objects.
Tarani	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:29:00 - [47] Edited by: Tarani on 01/02/2006 23:30:19 Originally by: Breed Love ok forget MWD, jump into a shuttle and accelerate with about 60g's. Still alive? Strange, you shouldnt be.. Inertial Dampeners. These niftly little currently out-of-our-grasp thing that help to be NOT sqished on the back of your*****pit (errr... room where you are flying the ship, or pod... god, I LOVE these auto-filters...)... They can also be used for an artificial gravitation field... so you can WANDER around in the spaceship, and not GLIDE through the air.... :-)
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:37:00 - [48] Originally by: Saeris Tal'Urduar Originally by: Dark Shikari The view is just simulated... the camera drone isn't moving with your view of course. So why not just say; Every ship is equiped with a short (100km) hi-res scanner, that allows the pod pilot to look at (in detail) other ships and celestial objects. Don't know, but the problem with scanners is that they can always be jammed -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:41:00 - [49] Originally by: ToxicFire Can beat you on number 2, there imagend sounds created by the pod pilot by what he expects to hear. Go read the Jovian Wet Grave I want the Submariners soundtrack thank you! Remind me about The Maze. I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message.
mortran	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:50:00 - [50] Quote: However, light waves can slow down as they pass through a medium. Last year, a research team at the Rowland Institute for Science and Harvard University, headed by Danish physicist Lene Hau, brought light waves down to a 1 mph crawl by putting them through a specially prepared haze of ultracold sodium atoms. This is not increasing the distance travelled in the same time in a very localised area (bounce) this is reducing the waves to a lower velocity in the over the same distance in the same time (slowing). From here The MAXIMUM speed of light is aprox 3^8ms^-2 (and that is in a vacuum) Quote: However, light waves can slow down as they pass through a medium. ThatÆs that done with thenà QED Ok a new oneà how come I cannot use a MWD in side a deadspace bubble but I can warp away from one? If I am nude in my pod where do I keep my credit card?
ElGuapo	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:53:00 - [51] Acutally it is the speed of light in a vacuum that can not be slowed down. In a medium it can be slowed down. As light (and matter as well) are waves just as they are particles. And similar to sound as it travels through diffrent media the speed changes according to several variables. Air is ~300m/s while through a metal sound travels at many km/s. According to your particle scattering model if the particles were bouncing around they would have various trajectories as they exited the material. So seeing through a piece of glass would be impossibe as 2 photons that originally had parallel paths would scatter in very diffrent directions when seperated by .1nm
Stregone	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:53:00 - [52] Whenever I come across some titanium sabot rounds I can't help but shake my head at what a stupid idea it is.
Jancen Eve	Posted - 2006.02.02 00:02:00 - [53] i have a question. since space doesnt have gravity. u shouldnt be taking any G force rite? so what are the interial dampeners for? and in RL, are ppl trying to develop them or is it out of our grasp?
Zappapapa	Posted - 2006.02.02 00:13:00 - [54] Edited by: Zappapapa on 02/02/2006 00:15:12 http://www.physlink.com/education/AskExperts/ae217.cfm "Bounce" was probably a bad choice in words but the bottom line is that light does NOT slow down. It is interfered with by the material so that it appears to slow down on a macroscopic scale. In reality it is still moving at 3x10^8 meters per second but is absorbed and reemitted by the matter it is traveling through. As far as the force you feel when accelerating the term "g" is used because it's often easy to express accelerations in terms of the acceleration caused by Earth's gravitaional field. The equation Force=mass*acceleration applies no matter what(ignoring relativistic effects). So even without gravity you'll feel force when you accelerate.
ElGuapo	Posted - 2006.02.02 00:52:00 - [55] Ok that explination I will agree with. I guess we were just miscommunicating on instantaneous speeds vs average velocity
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.02 01:06:00 - [56] I once did a complete review of all the ammo types, because they're stupid. Maybe I can dig it up... -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
AlexCA	Posted - 2006.02.02 01:07:00 - [57] Originally by: Jancen Eve i have a question. since space doesnt have gravity. u shouldnt be taking any G force rite? so what are the interial dampeners for? and in RL, are ppl trying to develop them or is it out of our grasp? Gravity and G-force are not the same thing. ============================== Oveur is my alt.
Maderda Kuhal	Posted - 2006.02.02 01:18:00 - [58] Originally by: Senlathial This post is to make a list of all the things Eve does, whether for aethestic purposes or game mechanics, that are not quite in line with the laws of physics. For this post, please suspend the "they are 1000 years in the future!" responses and just have fun with it. Some that come to mind: 1) Banking in space when your ship turns. 3) There are no engines that slow you down--you just turn off your thrusters and slowly stop. Add your own! Originally by: inSpirAcy The ships have wings. The missiles have wings. Everything has wings. But no-one can explain why! I keep telling people but the don't believe me! The EVE universe has an atmosphere. Me and my friends have debated this for ages. It's the only explanation. Not only is there an atmosphere but there is a huge center of gravity that makes the ships assume a consistent relational postion to the center of gravity.
adhoc	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:12:00 - [59] Originally by: ElGuapo Acutally it is the speed of light in a vacuum that can not be slowed down. In a medium it can be slowed down. As light (and matter as well) are waves just as they are particles. And similar to sound as it travels through diffrent media the speed changes according to several variables. Air is ~300m/s while through a metal sound travels at many km/s. According to your particle scattering model if the particles were bouncing around they would have various trajectories as they exited the material. So seeing through a piece of glass would be impossibe as 2 photons that originally had parallel paths would scatter in very diffrent directions when seperated by .1nm I think the theory runs something along the lines that for transparent objects the light is absorbed but is then transmitted to neighbouring atoms along the direction of the wavefront until its finally emmited at the other side (http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSCI/PHYS/Class/light/u12l2c.html) - I've never really been convinced by this explanation though. Whats more interesting are the experiments at Berkeley where they're getting tunneling photons to travel faster than the speed of light. Literally leaving the transmission medium before they enter it http://www.wsws.org/public_html/prioriss/iwb9-9/light.htm Which has caused many physicists to redefine "nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" to "information can't travel faster than the speed of light". Then theres the entangled photon stuff http://dustbunny.physics.indiana.edu/~dzierba/HonorsF97/Week1/NYTJuly22.html where clearly information is travelling faster than the speed of light.
nahtoh	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:25:00 - [60] The backblast effect when yo fire blstersgoing through your ship...gives me a giggle every other day or so ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self

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