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Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 127	Posted - 2013.10.29 02:54:00 - [1] - Quote Since we've had some time to play with the new HACs what verdict have people arrived at? Personally the cerb feels a little underwhelming but the deimos feels good. Haven't tried an eagle since the rebalance but doubt that it was improved very much. Also does anyone have a good cerb fit? I can't form one that I'm satisfied with. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 530	Posted - 2013.10.29 03:06:00 - [2] - Quote Deimos is a blast to fly, Cerb is excellent in small gangs with RLMLs fitted, the Ishtar is a fantastic sentry-kiter, and the Vaga can do some cool things. Don't know much about the others. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 3558	Posted - 2013.10.29 03:45:00 - [3] - Quote The Sacrilege and Zealot are the same as they always have been... except the Sac has been buffed a bit making it just a bit more effective in small brawling scenarios. And the Ishtar... mmm... very flexible and worth having in any small gang. It can brawl with the best of them and shoo off kiters and snipers when necessary. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 181	Posted - 2013.10.29 07:29:00 - [4] - Quote Here is a nice tier list for you: God Tier: Ishtar / Cerb Cerb does well as pure anti-tackle / anti support as well for those peski ewar cruisers / frigs. Amazing ship Ishtar has more DPS to bring than the cerb, another great pick. Good Tier: Diemos Deimos is good at what it does. Shield rail diemos is still pretty good Meh Tier: Vagabond / Munin Vagabond is bad because it uses auto cannons. Ship is just bad, unless you want a way to scram kiting ships. **** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle
Kasutra Tailor Company 223	Posted - 2013.10.29 08:41:00 - [5] - Quote Chessur wrote: ** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle Zealot is **? Wat
Danny John-Peter Snuff Box 332	Posted - 2013.10.29 09:30:00 - [6] - Quote Kasutra wrote: Chessur wrote: ** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle Zealot is ? Wat ITT Chessur being of the opinion that brawling isn't a thing and that gangs with logistics aren't a thing. All the HACs are in a pretty good place now, the Muninn is pretty niche and the Vaga has DPS projection issues but overall they are all good ships, I think the Sacs traditional dual rep role is better served by the Deimos these days but its excellent in a Logi supported gang as heavy tackle and secondary DPS, the Zealot is again a good gang ship both in Armour gangs and as Anti-Support in shield gangs. The Eagle looks interesting on paper as a fleet rail platform but whether that applies in game I am unsure, the Muninn still has its niche arty role as I said but with ABCs kind of ***** that Meta a bit its hard to say and it may well end up under-used. The Ishtar is pretty good but the derpyness of drones can make it a bit of a pain, however its never the less a very powerful platform, the dual-rep Deimos is an absolute beast. The Cerb is an amazing HAM and RLML platform for solo and gang, RLMLs being so good in general making the RLML Cerb very versatile and potent, probably to the point where RLMLs are in need of a bit of a nerf.
Desudes The Scope Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2013.10.29 11:15:00 - [7] - Quote Heavy missiles not worth using for the missile HACs? Excuse me, but what the fck are you desu?*
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 127	Posted - 2013.10.29 11:26:00 - [8] - Quote Are heavy missiles worth using at all now? That's not a trick question either. Click here for LP store weapon cost rebalancing
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 530	Posted - 2013.10.29 11:39:00 - [9] - Quote RLML is the new HML I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Platypus King Doughboys Shadow Cartel 7	Posted - 2013.10.29 15:01:00 - [10] - Quote Cap buff + sig radius reduction. Hac changes are good.
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 182	Posted - 2013.10.29 16:58:00 - [11] - Quote Kasutra wrote: Chessur wrote: ** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle Zealot is **? Wat The Nomen makes a better zealot, than the zealot. True fact.
Hatsumi Kobayashi Origin. Black Legion. 288	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:17:00 - [12] - Quote Chessur wrote: Kasutra wrote: Chessur wrote: ** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle Zealot is ? Wat The Nomen makes a better zealot, than the zealot. True fact. This is why you are in FA and not in a good alliance. No sig.**
Danny John-Peter Snuff Box 332	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:41:00 - [13] - Quote Chessur wrote: Kasutra wrote: Chessur wrote: ** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle Zealot is **? Wat The Nomen makes a better zealot, than the zealot. True fact. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha TII Resists more buffer and more DPS aren't important I hear.
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 183	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:17:00 - [14] - Quote Danny John-Peter wrote: Chessur wrote: Kasutra wrote: Chessur wrote: ** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle Zealot is **? Wat The Nomen makes a better zealot, than the zealot. True fact. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha TII Resists more buffer and more DPS aren't important I hear. More Speed, Smaller sig, drone bay, are pretty important in my experience.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 128	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:32:00 - [15] - Quote Yea and caracal has better speed than cerberus. Vaga will be an exception to the rule most likely. The point is that you have 50% more ehp on a hac as well as twice as many bonuses. Hacs probably are objectively better than t1 at this point with t1 retaining a few minor advantages Click here for LP store weapon cost rebalancing
Danny John-Peter Snuff Box 332	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:43:00 - [16] - Quote Chessur wrote: Danny John-Peter wrote: Chessur wrote: Kasutra wrote: Chessur wrote: ** Tier: Zealot, Sac, Eagle Zealot is ? Wat The Nomen makes a better zealot, than the zealot. True fact. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha TII Resists more buffer and more DPS aren't important I hear. More Speed, Smaller sig, drone bay, are pretty important in my experience. Depends on what your flying it for, which is why making sweeping statements as you did is pants on head ******.
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 183	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:38:00 - [17] - Quote Either way zealots are really bad, and are out performed by Nomens for solo / small gang and fleet. If you want to compare some fits, please start coughing up numbers, because a zealot is not getting 2X EHP. Infact the Nomen and zealot have extreamly simmilar base EHP. So please stop spouting the bullshit. The zealot is outperformed by the nomen in the AHAC role and most certainly in the small gang / solo role, 100%. Run the numbers.
Bertrand Butler Cras es Noster 126	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:30:00 - [18] - Quote Chessur wrote: More Speed, Smaller sig, drone bay, are pretty important in my experience. The Zealot has a substantially smaller signature, unless of course you fly them with ABs. Also ~40% more laser DPS at the same range is nothing to scoff at. Both ships have their uses.
Danny John-Peter Snuff Box 334	Posted - 2013.10.30 08:55:00 - [19] - Quote Chessur wrote: Either way zealots are really bad, and are out performed by Nomens for solo / small gang and fleet. If you want to compare some fits, please start coughing up numbers, because a zealot is not getting 2X EHP. Infact the Nomen and zealot have extreamly simmilar base EHP. So please stop spouting the bullshit. The zealot is outperformed by the nomen in the AHAC role and most certainly in the small gang / solo role, 100%. Run the numbers. Hahahahahahah, again. Both fits with Maxed Damnation, no implants. [Zealot, somanly] 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Armor Thermic Hardener II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Centii A-Type EM Plating Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I 84816 EHP 406 DPS Pre-heat. 84/84/82/90 Resists Preheat (Rounded Profile) 559M/S Sig 125 [Omen Navy Issue, an Awful ABHAC] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M [empty high slot] Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Anti-EM Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I 61490 EHP 77/81/78/76 Resists Preheat (Rounded) 373 DPS Preheat With Drones (Which will die) 726M/S 100M Sig Basically, the Oni gains some speed and a slightly lower sig for ** DPS, resists however you fit it and ** EHP, as well as terrible cap. However the speed and Sig gains are nullified basically by the fact that the primary is Going to be heavily webbed and painted in most fights.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 434	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:23:00 - [20] - Quote Anyone actually dared to undock and try the eagle yet?
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 622	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:56:00 - [21] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Anyone actually dared to undock and try the eagle yet? Blaster eagle is amazingly powerul and can surprise a lot of people. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Major Killz La Fraternite 267	Posted - 2013.10.30 09:58:00 - [22] - Quote Danny John-Peter wrote: Lady Naween wrote: It is a good ship despite what MR FA said. For lowsec I gladly take it out as it can easily tank gateguns while still being nimble enough to outwit gangs. And it has nice firepower as well. Dual rep and you can tank things very comfortably while chewing them up, my only complaint is that I need to pack so many different kind of missiles ^^ I don't like the Sac as much for this these days. Deimos just does the Dual Rep thing better IMO, its still good as a gang ship though, and probably solo although cant say I've soloed in one recently. I use below. Gives me more optionality compared to the Deimos. There have been plenty of engagements I would have lost the Deimos in but did not because I had the option to kite whatever target. So I surivived more I suppose but that did not result in more kills that is failure of course. Rather lose the ship than not kill anything at times and I tend to do that for giggles more than often but the cost of the ship stops those tendencies. I have had an engagement where I had to tanki 5 tech-1 cruisers (Thorax Rupture and Vexor); another where there were 2 Ishtars and a Vengeance that I survived. There was another agianst 15 dudes in mix cruisers and frigates that I also surivived because I was dictating alot range at the beginging before fully commiting and prolonging things long enough to do what needed to be done. So I prefer it because it gives me options and I don't have to worry so much about tracking disruptors and tracking. I am able to do good damage to assault frigates like a Hawk and Vengeance forcing them to tank hard or explode. The neut and web helps ALOT against frigates. So, yeah! It's my prefered close range HAC atm. While I use the Cerberus for Skirmishing. Note: in none of said engagements did I receive ANY FLEET BONUSES. [Sacrilege, Blasphemy] Khanid Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Armor Thermic Hardener II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 10MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Nanobot Accelerator I Hornet EC-300 x5 Warrior II x5 - Killz Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013)
Danny John-Peter Snuff Box 334	Posted - 2013.10.30 10:21:00 - [23] - Quote I have never actually actually considered that the Sacri has a pretty good mix of Agility/Speed/Tank and Projection. May have to give something similar a try.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1286	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:43:00 - [24] - Quote Chessur wrote: More Speed, Smaller sig, drone bay, are pretty important in my experience. Both are great bastards, I'd take a Nomen over a Zealot in solo/small gang but a Zealot over a Nomen for large fleets removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 184	Posted - 2013.10.30 12:07:00 - [25] - Quote The zealot vs ONI numbers are wrong. Counting drones, ONI has more DPS. Zealot http://i.imgur.com/j92BysN.jpg 81K EHP 87 / 83 / 81 / 90 406 DPS 664 M/S 68.8 Sig Nomen http://i.imgur.com/86sRJFv.jpg 63.6K EHP 75 / 67.5 / 80 / 79.4 421 DPS 849 M/S 55 Sig Nomen is still better. That increased speed + Sig will make a huge difference even while webbed and patined, when compared to the zealot. Cap is not an issue if you place a small booster. Having 5 Med drones makes the Nomen a superior choice.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 533	Posted - 2013.10.30 12:08:00 - [26] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Chessur wrote: More Speed, Smaller sig, drone bay, are pretty important in my experience. Both are great bastards, I'd take a Nomen over a Zealot in solo/small gang but a Zealot over a Nomen for large fleets Finally, sense is spoken. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Danny John-Peter Snuff Box 334	Posted - 2013.10.30 12:31:00 - [27] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Chessur wrote: More Speed, Smaller sig, drone bay, are pretty important in my experience. Both are great bastards, I'd take a Nomen over a Zealot in solo/small gang but a Zealot over a Nomen for large fleets Finally, sense is spoken. Pretty much this. But to say that its terrible just because it doesn't fit into 1 style play is pretty dumb. (Also drones aren't a reliable source of DPS, and will die)
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 622	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:44:00 - [28] - Quote Chessur wrote: The zealot vs ONI numbers are wrong. Counting drones, ONI has more DPS. Zealot http://i.imgur.com/j92BysN.jpg 81K EHP 87 / 83 / 81 / 90 406 DPS 664 M/S 68.8 Sig Nomen http://i.imgur.com/86sRJFv.jpg 63.6K EHP 75 / 67.5 / 80 / 79.4 421 DPS 849 M/S 55 Sig Nomen is still better. That increased speed + Sig will make a huge difference even while webbed and patined, when compared to the zealot. Cap is not an issue if you place a small booster. Having 5 Med drones makes the Nomen a superior choice. But all of this talk is ponitless, because I feel that OP is probably solo / small gang. And in that arena, the zealot is completely outclassed by the Nomen. As for a cerb fit- the only way to fit the cerb: http://i.imgur.com/kTPNQmd.jpg 18.5K EHP 35 / 80 / 70 / 50 489 Unheated DPS 1893 M/S Your cerberus fit is completely wrong... try to check one of OUR cerberuses to see how they are fit properly. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 434	Posted - 2013.11.01 22:22:00 - [29] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Anyone actually dared to undock and try the eagle yet? Blaster eagle is amazingly powerul and can surprise a lot of people. But is it 225,000,000-250,000,000 powerful/good/wtf are they THAT expensive?!
Chessur Strontless Mistakes Fatal Ascension 189	Posted - 2013.11.01 22:33:00 - [30] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Chessur wrote: The zealot vs ONI numbers are wrong. Counting drones, ONI has more DPS. Zealot http://i.imgur.com/j92BysN.jpg 81K EHP 87 / 83 / 81 / 90 406 DPS 664 M/S 68.8 Sig Nomen http://i.imgur.com/86sRJFv.jpg 63.6K EHP 75 / 67.5 / 80 / 79.4 421 DPS 849 M/S 55 Sig Nomen is still better. That increased speed + Sig will make a huge difference even while webbed and patined, when compared to the zealot. Cap is not an issue if you place a small booster. Having 5 Med drones makes the Nomen a superior choice. But all of this talk is ponitless, because I feel that OP is probably solo / small gang. And in that arena, the zealot is completely outclassed by the Nomen. As for a cerb fit- the only way to fit the cerb: http://i.imgur.com/kTPNQmd.jpg 18.5K EHP 35 / 80 / 70 / 50 489 Unheated DPS 1893 M/S Your cerberus fit is completely wrong... try to check one of OUR cerberuses to see how they are fit properly. Thanks but, pretty sure that is how to properly fit a cerb. Its the same fit that turn left uses, and the one that I had discussed with TL before the ship was even released.

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