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Rubicon - Is Drone BS / Carrier ratting dead?

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Tialano Utrigas Critical Mass Inc. Nexus Fleet 59	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:03:00 - [31] - Quote What most of you guys seem to be neglecting is the fact that a ratting carrier is never at 0 in the anom and usually 100km off. Now if you are 100km off in line with a gate then you deserve to die. Considering most tackle wont warp to an anom at 0 either means that as well as the 5-10 seconds it takes to get to the anom (assuming they pick the right one) you will still have an additional 10 seconds or so before the f*cker is in point range Christ, server lag between the ceptor landing in local and them actually loading grid, opening the scanner, locating the anoms and probably using dscan should give you another 5 seconds if not more before he starts warping. You have easily got 30 seconds to align to a pos and get out. If you cant manage that then chin up.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 9317	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:05:00 - [32] - Quote Setsune Rin wrote: Vera Algaert wrote: Ratting with one carrier is stupidly risky as is. But those people who are serious about carrier ratting don't rely on not getting caught, they rely on having cynos on each of their carriers and being able to spidertank the damage output of your average blops drop. You what now? typical forum alt, big mouth but no practical knowledge carrier ratting is just a high efficiency bet that you won't get killed before you make enough isk to make it worth it they're fit for max damage, never a cyno just like all other ratting ships While some people do rat with carriers in the way Vera suggests it's a pretty rare thing and the people who tend to do that are multiboxers. Twitter: @EVEAndski TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á
Borsek A.A.A Ragnarok. 20	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:07:00 - [33] - Quote Rat in an ishtar. MJD and cloak. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. Have an alt falcon. Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). Stop being a whining scrub. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them?
Jack Mayhem Kaer Industries 57	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:32:00 - [34] - Quote Use sentry Geddon for ratting with couple heavy neuts.
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 570	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:06:00 - [35] - Quote Borsek wrote: Rat in an ishtar. MJD and cloak. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. Have an alt falcon. Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). Stop being a whining scrub. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them? Why not?...because none of that makes any sense and you have no idea what you're talking about. Bubble the gates?...uh hunny they are nullified do you know what that means?
Spankijs Omaristos Royal Black Watch Highlanders Northern Associates. 53	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:16:00 - [36] - Quote Borsek wrote: Rat in an ishtar. MJD and cloak. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. Have an alt falcon. Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). Stop being a whining scrub. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them? Please, do not post if you have no idea what you're talking about. Rat in an ishtar. - This thread is to discuss about ratting in Battleships/Carriers after Rubicon, not " suggest alternative ships thread" MJD and cloak. - Cloak? Really? You cant use it if targeted (In this case by rats) And I want to see you patience for targeting Frigs/crusers. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. - Just wtf is this? :D Have an alt falcon. - Fancy buying one for everyone? Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). - Right, thats why the post is here, to discuss it. Stop being a whining scrub. - No one here is whining, this is just a discussion/question. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. - Please, BIOMASS yourself.
Evei Shard 229	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:17:00 - [37] - Quote Isn't a BS also at full speed when exiting a jump? If so, I would think that passively (stopped) aligning to a celestial (if you can find one close to your plane) would afford you the MJD jump plus being full speed aligned when you exit the jump. Profit favors the prepared
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 573	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:28:00 - [38] - Quote Evei Shard wrote: Isn't a BS also at full speed when exiting a jump? If so, I would think that passively (stopped) aligning to a celestial (if you can find one close to your plane) would afford you the MJD jump plus being full speed aligned when you exit the jump. Only if at full speed when jumping.
Baali Tekitsu B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 189	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:30:00 - [39] - Quote Andrea Keuvo wrote: [q The ceptor having to guess where you are might be a problem for them in a -1.0 system but in a -.4 or lower where there are only 2 f-hubs and a haven one dscan probably gives them better than a 50% chance of finding you. Its always a 100% chance as you can narrow down the location of ships in anoms using the solar system map and dscan. You just need practice to be fast.
Money Makin Mitch Paid in Full 210	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:42:00 - [40] - Quote yep. this is part of the reason i've sold off my huge carrier stock.
Icarus Able Traverse Holdings Setting The Universe on Fire 141	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:51:00 - [41] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jint Hikaru wrote: Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec. Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money. I hope thats a joke..
My Little Pyongyang State War Academy Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.10.30 15:24:00 - [42] - Quote Icarus Able wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Jint Hikaru wrote: Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec. Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money. I hope thats a joke.. Perhaps he assumes the other person is dead weight or he may be thinking that they are just there for protection rather than a second productive ship.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 1739	Posted - 2013.10.30 15:50:00 - [43] - Quote My Little Pyongyang wrote: Perhaps he assumes the other person is dead weight or he may be thinking that they are just there for protection rather than a second productive ship. Pretty much. It's a safe assumption that's what the poster I was replying to was talking about.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3205	Posted - 2013.10.30 16:10:00 - [44] - Quote I do think the new interceptors are going to have a huge impact on anom farming, and I'm ok with that, if you aren't paying attention in nullsec you deserve to explode. It's not going to change an awful lot about how I do things since I already prepare to GTFO while farming and/OR use ships cheap enough that I don't mind losing them Domis and Armageddons rule). But i will say this, I think that after the impact of the changes to interceptors and warping (and the new deployables like the portable cyno jammer, which i have mentally named the "HotStopper" lol), there maybe should be a re-evaluation and perhaps re-balancing of defensive equipment in the game. For the most part defensive equipment like warp core stabs, defender missiles and the target lock breaker and even cloaks have so many draw backs and costs (such as taking up slots) that using them for PVE ship defense that you end up better off doing PVE stuff in high sec where people have to put in a lot of effort to screw with you. Also, some people think the inty change will lead to more pvp as more carriers get caught in anomalies. It probably will at 1st and the portable cyno jammer won't help because the raiders will just brring 2 ship (a ceptor to tackle and another ship to light the cyno outside of the portable jammer's range, or just a bomber with warp rigs and a covert cyno). But eventually it means fewer carrier kills because human nature dictates that people will just stop ratting with carriers.
Dersen Lowery Laurentson INC StructureDamage 809	Posted - 2013.10.30 16:13:00 - [45] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Also, some people think the inty change will lead to more pvp as more carriers get caught in anomalies. It probably will at 1st and the portable cyno jammer won't help because the raiders will just brring 2 ship (a ceptor to tackle and another ship to light the cyno outside of the portable jammer's range, or just a bomber with warp rigs and a covert cyno). But eventually it means fewer carrier kills because human nature dictates that people will just stop ratting with carriers. Eventually, yes, but the number of low-information players in the game never ceases to astonish me. Also, I'm stealing "HotStopper." Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3205	Posted - 2013.10.30 16:21:00 - [46] - Quote Dersen Lowery wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Also, some people think the inty change will lead to more pvp as more carriers get caught in anomalies. It probably will at 1st and the portable cyno jammer won't help because the raiders will just brring 2 ship (a ceptor to tackle and another ship to light the cyno outside of the portable jammer's range, or just a bomber with warp rigs and a covert cyno). But eventually it means fewer carrier kills because human nature dictates that people will just stop ratting with carriers. Eventually, yes, but the number of low-information players in the game never ceases to astonish me. Also, I'm stealing "HotStopper." There are going to be some SERIOUS tears on Rubicon launch day when a bunch of carriers die while ratting. And then the people who didn't hear about ANY of the changes CCP has been warning us about for months are going to stomp angrily to this forum DEMANDING to know why they weren't informed and DEMANDING their carrier based SP be refunded because they just trained carriers for ratting and there nothing else you can do with those things. And I'm going to lull hard. Also, I've already copyrighted "HotStopper" with the CONCORD forum phrases patent office, I demand 0.01 isk every time someone else says "HotStopper"..... I'll be rich!
Spankijs Omaristos Royal Black Watch Highlanders Northern Associates. 54	Posted - 2013.10.30 16:33:00 - [47] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Dersen Lowery wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Also, some people think the inty change will lead to more pvp as more carriers get caught in anomalies. It probably will at 1st and the portable cyno jammer won't help because the raiders will just brring 2 ship (a ceptor to tackle and another ship to light the cyno outside of the portable jammer's range, or just a bomber with warp rigs and a covert cyno). But eventually it means fewer carrier kills because human nature dictates that people will just stop ratting with carriers. Eventually, yes, but the number of low-information players in the game never ceases to astonish me. Also, I'm stealing "HotStopper." There are going to be some SERIOUS tears on Rubicon launch day when a bunch of carriers die while ratting. And then the people who didn't hear about ANY of the changes CCP has been warning us about for months are going to stomp angrily to this forum DEMANDING to know why they weren't informed and DEMANDING their carrier based SP be refunded because they just trained carriers for ratting and there nothing else you can do with those things. And I'm going to lull hard. Also, I've already copyrighted "HotStopper" with the CONCORD forum phrases patent office, I demand 0.01 isk every time someone else says "HotStopper"..... I'll be rich! Haha, nice one! Im going to steal that "HotStopper" too :D
Dring Dingle Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement 72	Posted - 2013.10.30 16:52:00 - [48] - Quote I do this EVERY time I see a nuet enter local. ..... Step 1: hold A and click the station. Step 2: Hit your MJD Step 3: When you come out of you MJD, you will be just under warp speed and aligned, give it another second and hit dock. Step 1 and 2 can be done in under a second. AS LONG AS YOU ALIGN to station before hitting your MJD then the ship will continue to align as the drive spools up. IF you hit your MJD before you align you cannot change the direction of your align. This takes less than 10 seconds, and as long as you warp from a safe to the hub, (at whatever your optimum range is,) when you leave your MJD you will be at a location that the interceptor cannot warp 2. Alternatively, when you land in the site, use your MJD to jump to the opposite side of the hub/site. (This works well for me as I always warp in at 50kms anyway) O7
Borsek A.A.A Ragnarok. 24	Posted - 2013.10.30 16:56:00 - [49] - Quote Quote: Please, do not post if you have no idea what you're talking about. Rat in an ishtar. - This thread is to discuss about ratting in Battleships/Carriers after Rubicon, not " suggest alternative ships thread" MJD and cloak. - Cloak? Really? You cant use it if targeted (In this case by rats) And I want to see you patience for targeting Frigs/crusers. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. - Just wtf is this? :D Have an alt falcon. - Fancy buying one for everyone? Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). - Right, thats why the post is here, to discuss it. Stop being a whining scrub. - No one here is whining, this is just a discussion/question thread. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. - Please, BIOMASS yourself. Obviously using other ships is a solution. Yes, MJD then cloak, or warp and then cloak. I see no problem whatsoever here. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. - Just wtf is this? :D ---> At this point you have proven to be absolutely ********. Falcon alt? Train one. Getting 500M/month ratting in nullsec is hardly challenging. Unless you are challenged, of course. Taking down an interceptor? Fit webs if they get in scram range, otherwise look at line #2. And/or large neuts. Stop being a whining scrub. - No one here is whining, this is just a discussion/question thread. (you are whining, right here) Bubbling gates is oh so hard? Sure, an inty gets through, but the rest of the fleet doesn't. You have more than enough time to blap an inty if he somehow gets you. The only thing such threads prove is that nullsec is nowadays filled with too many scrub blobbing bears that think null should be like hisec. I, for one, am welcoming this change. I hope tons of people die because they're idiots. After all, you have LOCAL in null. How can you 'get jumped' with LOCAL, right there? Learn to pay attention.
Snakebyte Jack Grand Theft Astr0 7	Posted - 2013.10.30 16:56:00 - [50] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jint Hikaru wrote: Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec. Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money. Does this mean that if you dual box each of your characters gets twice as much money.?
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3205	Posted - 2013.10.30 17:04:00 - [51] - Quote Dring Dingle wrote: I do this EVERY time I see a nuet enter local. ..... Step 1: hold A and click the station. Step 2: Hit your MJD Step 3: When you come out of you MJD, you will be just under warp speed and aligned, give it another second and hit dock. Step 1 and 2 can be done in under a second. AS LONG AS YOU ALIGN to station before hitting your MJD then the ship will continue to align as the drive spools up. IF you hit your MJD before you align you cannot change the direction of your align. This takes less than 10 seconds, and as long as you warp from a safe to the hub, (at whatever your optimum range is,) when you leave your MJD you will be at a location that the interceptor cannot warp 2. Alternatively, when you land in the site, use your MJD to jump to the opposite side of the hub/site. (This works well for me as I always warp in at 50kms anyway) O7 I pretty much do that. The thing is that interceptors are going to warp faster in warp now too, and it's not inconceivable that a dictor could get lucky and land on station then bubble before you come out of your micro jump and initiate warp to station. Also you have awoxxers who will undock in dictator and bubble and cloak or warp off. then a neut comes in and you get caught in a "blue" bubble on station and killed. That's why even in a station system we keep a POS, because the station could be a Tarp lol. I also put Plus 3 agility hardwirings in my ratting toons head for extra GTFO juice instead of damage/gun/missile hardwirings. Extra dps is nice but all the DPS stats in the world means nothing to a dead ship lol.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 1740	Posted - 2013.10.30 17:21:00 - [52] - Quote Snakebyte Jack wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Jint Hikaru wrote: Fit a 'Firend' or 'FleetMate' when ratting in nulsec. Needing two people to rat means you're making half as much money. Does this mean that if you dual box each of your characters gets twice as much money.? when one's on defence only? no, you're making half as much as you could have
Dyniss Timeless Abyss Productions Apocalypse Now. 22	Posted - 2013.10.30 18:33:00 - [53] - Quote Borsek wrote: Rat in an ishtar. MJD and cloak. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. Have an alt falcon. Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). Stop being a whining scrub. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them? MJD is a battleship only module. don't you realize this? Honestly I am surprised most that quotes this post missed this as well.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3208	Posted - 2013.10.30 18:37:00 - [54] - Quote Dyniss wrote: Borsek wrote: Rat in an ishtar. MJD and cloak. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. Have an alt falcon. Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). Stop being a whining scrub. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. All of these options are at your disposal. Why not use them? MJD is a battleship only module. Don't you realize this? Honestly I am surprised that everyone else that quoted this post missed this as well. Didn't miss it, started to post the same thing i did till i realized he never said "fit MJD to Ishtar". He was listing individual tactics.
Borsek A.A.A Ragnarok. 25	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:00:00 - [55] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Didn't miss it, started to post the same thing i did till i realized he never said "fit MJD to Ishtar". He was listing individual tactics. That is correct, MJD and cloak on a domi/geddon, if Ishtar use nano sniper (shield tank) or dual rep. Chew up inties in seconds.
WilliamMays Stuffs Inc. 64	Posted - 2013.10.30 20:10:00 - [56] - Quote It's been far to long since I've done any ratting, so I'll comment on how I see this effecting my mining. I jumped on the test server to see if I would have enough time to warp the rorqual, after seeing my corpmate land on the gate in the next system over (he was in a inty with no warp speed rigs, no special implants) I had my pull down menu ready, so all I had to do was click the mouse button and cycle the MWD. He jumped, warped to the belt, and pointed me at about 8 seconds into my MWD cycle. Granted, I told him what belt I was in. However this was in ideal conditions for me, I was staring at the scout's screen, waiting to see him (as opposed to moving ore around, or running compression jobs, or chatting with nerds in alliance), I had the right click menu all set and ready to go. The menu alone normally adds 2-3 seconds, and I can't click the overview icon because I have to fleet warp. The hulks typically warp about the same time as the rorqual, so they're all fairly easy targets. This means my rorqual will no longer be going to the belt; hulks mining without a hauler that can keep up...yeah, no thanks. I will be mining in macks, so I can get out faster. One point that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the amount of time the BS or cap ships will take to go from entering warp to landing in the anomaly. This will take long enough in some rare cases that an interceptor will be able to catch you when you had entered warp before he had even entered the neighboring system. I did say rare and it will require a ton of luck, but you can rest assured it will happen, and the guy who is stuck watching the inty pilot warp gate to gate, then into the anom, all while the BS/cap is in warp and having zero control over anything...he's not gonna be happy with eve. Don't forget, you'll have to align and enter warp again to get away. Another negative is that the interceptor will now be a problem not only for the system he is in, but the single pilot can effect all the surrounding systems activity, since he can quickly get anywhere. A few rebuttals: Intel channels - That's nice if you live in space where everyone is crammed together and online/active all day. I doubt I'm the only one who mines at weird hours in space that is semi-empty. IMHO, the best intel is your own eyes. This is why I have an extra character watching outside where I mine. Faster speed, means I'll need more intel further out, which I will be doing with another extra character.....great Just mine aligned - That doesn't really work when you're trying to clear belts of giant roids, you wind up slow boating right out of range, have to turn around to go back in range, then you're no longer aligned. Just BM behind the belt, warp out and back to the BM? Might as well just go with the mackinaws then. Fit X module - with pimped out hulks (t2 rigs, faction resist amps, b-type boosters, max skills) the hulks still need remote reps on some rat spawns, now u want me to drop a tank mod to fit ecm? or a strip miner to fit a neut? The rorqual has a shield and armor rep for the hulks and drones, tractors for obvious reasons, and shield links to help with the tanking, dropping some of those, for a neut, great idea...I'll get right on that. The rorqual does have some open mids to fit ecm. With all that said, ECM neuts and such things are ok against one target, but I'm really expecting groups of 5-10 taranis pilots to be flying around quite a bit; I know we're planning on it in my corp. Yes, I'm gonna abuse this mechanic for all it's worth, until it gets nerfed. Dont sit on the warp in - First, I don't get to decide where the roids are, but thats a smaller issue since I typically have to move a little further away. Second, with the belts lasting many hours, I've had hostiles come in to bookmark, then come back later that day and warp to the different spots in the belts where they think I might be. I've changed to covops and warped to my own BMs above the belts to watch when I knew they were coming. Know thy enemy.... Jump in a pvp ship and go fight them - Most solo and even smaller gangs are not looking for fights when they show up in a ratting/mining system. They come in, try to catch a shiny, quick n easy kill, talk some smack about the miner sitting in the pos, complain that eve sucks because they couldn't catch anything, then leave and send a cloaky alt back later. The second you show up in a pvp ship(s) that has a reasonable chance of ending in their death, the gang runs faster than any miner ever could. I'm not blaming them, that's EVE. To those whining about people whining, when a big part of your gameplay gets significantly changed for the worse, you'll be whining too. Switching from hulks to mackinaws will be a nerf to my yield right off the bat, without even factoring in the time warping from the belt to the pos and back. Personally, I wish null sec ratting and mining were more of a pvp activity, where the miners had a reason to stay in the belt and stood a decent chance of surviving gank attempts with proper pvp support. But that's not possible until the space tyrants that run null alliances/corps have a reason to want their own members mining the ore in their own space. For now and the forseable future, we just have to find ways to run n hide when even a lowly frigate shows up. start the POS revamp NOW--make it happen
PotatoOverdose SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 464	Posted - 2013.10.30 20:38:00 - [57] - Quote Spankijs Omaristos wrote: So with upcoming changes to warp speed/acceleration who is going to rat in a carrier? :D Also, any sentry BS boats? Rattlers/Domis/Geddons?? How with these insta warps, one can rat in those battleships? - I mean sentry drone boats can't really align, and now interceptors can just jump into system and be in random heaven/sanctum in 5 seconds... awesome eh!? (Im actually excited about this, few days away to get into ceptors ^^) Lone interceptors aren't a huge threat to a BS. A heavy neut will generally cap them out in a single cycle. A fleet of intercpetors will light up the intel channels miles away. Tbh, a long range BS can avoid the entire problem altogether by MJD'ing once in site. You should be well over a 100km away from the beacon BEFORE the interceptor enters local, and preferably not in line between the beacon and any of the systems gate. Ratting in a carrier was never a good idea in the first place, as many terrible losses indicate. However, one of the chief advantages of doing so was that you could jump out of system immediately assuming you have an evac cyno on standby. Interceptor hits local/dscan? Jump. Also, please note: you should NEVER rat in a carrier without having a personal evac cyno ready. Jumping into unscouted cyno beacons has always been a recipe for death.
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 570	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:12:00 - [58] - Quote Borsek wrote: Quote: Please, do not post if you have no idea what you're talking about. Rat in an ishtar. - This thread is to discuss about ratting in Battleships/Carriers after Rubicon, not " suggest alternative ships thread" MJD and cloak. - Cloak? Really? You cant use it if targeted (In this case by rats) And I want to see you patience for targeting Frigs/crusers. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. - Just wtf is this? :D Have an alt falcon. - Fancy buying one for everyone? Change your fit so you can take down intys (dozens of options here). - Right, thats why the post is here, to discuss it. Stop being a whining scrub. - No one here is whining, this is just a discussion/question thread. Bubble all gates in system when ratting. - Please, BIOMASS yourself. Obviously using other ships is a solution. Yes, MJD then cloak, or warp and then cloak. I see no problem whatsoever here. Don't stay at 0km from the warpin. - Just wtf is this? :D ---> At this point you have proven to be absolutely ********. Falcon alt? Train one. Getting 500M/month ratting in nullsec is hardly challenging. Unless you are challenged, of course. Taking down an interceptor? Fit webs if they get in scram range, otherwise look at line #2. And/or large neuts. Stop being a whining scrub. - No one here is whining, this is just a discussion/question thread. (you are whining, right here) Bubbling gates is oh so hard? Sure, an inty gets through, but the rest of the fleet doesn't. You have more than enough time to blap an inty if he somehow gets you. The only thing such threads prove is that nullsec is nowadays filled with too many scrub blobbing bears that think null should be like hisec. I, for one, am welcoming this change. I hope tons of people die because they're idiots. After all, you have LOCAL in null. How can you 'get jumped' with LOCAL, right there? Learn to pay attention. Listen to this while reading this post and it will brighten your day. WTF IZ CINO
SpoonRECKLESS Bumper R Us 86	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:15:00 - [59] - Quote I cant wait to see the Killmail of 200 ceptors killing a ratting carrier. Blue
Maraner The Executioners Capital Punishment. 285	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:28:00 - [60] - Quote To the OP's original point. You will likely do as you have always done which is either to bot yourself off to your tower or fit stabs. I will be fitting warp faster rigs to my sabre and out looking for you guys. For years the 'honest' belt ratting BS has been a rare thing. I have tried log in traps, anchored bubbles etc etc and the vast majority of the time as soon as local pops up one the hostiles are in warp to the tower / station. Uncanny how vigilant people can be off local after hours of ratting / mining even with multiple others in local. It almost feels that we have been disadvantaging the honest belt ratter over the years, they I suspect tend to be the ones we catch. So yay ....roll on Lubicon. Your gonna need some for what we're gonna do to you. For those that rat and PVP when required to, see you in the Belts o/, for those that have botted their way safe we will enjoy killing you and taking your stuffs.

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