I also assure you that I am not ignoring negative feedback. There are absolutely a lot of people giving that in this thread. In the past when I've gotten negative feedback which is backed with well articulated arguments I don't hesitate to make changes (see industrial rebalance, electronic attack frig rebalance, battleship rebalance), but in this thread the majority of complaint is very disorganized and unhelpful, that's why I'm instead going with the positive feedback coming from the CSM, from our testing and from some posters here.

I'm with many others, missiles as a whole need looked at. I don't think any really need nerfed, but the rapids do need adjusted. But it should be held off a till ALL missiles are looked at. I think missiles deserve more options, and it be nice if they got a module to help with velocity and/or flight time.
I do think they need need a better module for defense against them then defnders, smartbomber work too but then no high slots for weapons. I Don't think TDs should be used, but maybe make another module that would effect the missile in flight, like a med or low slot that act somewhat like flares act on planes today. It would give a good defense, and could be a cool effect also.

Not only is that not true (they are way behind just 250mm rails), and considering an honest comparison would be HMLs vs medium autocanons, medium blasters, etc, and not HMLs vs 425mm autocannons or 720mm arty, etc, but that statistic has little to no bearing on the claim that HMLs are garbage for small gangs. That statistic is almost entirely nullsec fleets and rvb.

This is definitely the most difficult thread to try and interact with that I've made so far, so please excuse the delay between post if you can find it in your hearts to do so.

I've been discussing the response to this change almost constantly since the thread was posted, both with the CSM and with my fellow designers. I'll cut to the chase and say that the conclusion is to go ahead with the change, with the understanding that it needs to be carefully looked at following release.

It really seems there's two different discussions taking place. One is simply whether or not rapid light missiles deserve a nerf of any kind, and the other is whether or not the proposed mechanic will be fun/powerful.

I understand that the current RLML missiles are very strong and you guys like them and that many people would be very unhappy for them to get a significant change regardless of the method we chose. We definitely feel they need a change though. It's a weapon system designed to be best in a particular kind of situation rather than being the best choice for most situations and so one way or another it was going to get tweaked. However, if this change means the system isn't powerful in the situations it's meant for (dunking smaller ships), it will get adjusted until it is. The second part of this topic is whether or not the other medium weapon systems are actually viable. The way players are behaving says they are, but following this release I'd like to have a conversation internally about missiles as a whole and figure out where we stand. Maybe there is some more changes needed and I'd like to look into that.

As far as the long reload mechanic, the feedback is mixed in this thread and mostly positive elsewhere (CSM, internal development, external forums) from what I can tell. Again, I will say that the concerns about ammo swapping are completely valid and I've talked to my team and we can hopefully address that sometime after Rubicon. Part of the reason I lean towards putting this change in is the common sentiment in most balance threads that homogenization is a big fear among our players. I think favoring new types of interactions rather than adjusting numbers slightly within the same mechanic makes the game more interesting, and everything I've heard from the community points that direction as well (except sometimes when doing something new means changing something old). On top of this, there's no arguing that front-loading damage is powerful. As others have said, artillery is a good example of that. Whether or not it's powerful enough to compensate for the sustained dps nerf is just something we will find out once people get it in their hands.

I think we will come out of this with a very fun pair of weapon systems. If we don't, it will get changed.

PS - saying I don't play the game or use Caracals is completely ridiculous, I think you guys can find more reasonable lines of attack.

[quote=Thaddeus Eggeras]
But I for one, would like the choice to switch out BCU's for a module that improved the mechanics of the missiles being fired, increasing their accuracy or range. This would immediately fix the issue with torpedo's for example, and give more fitting options and immediately increase the variety and types of fits that we see.

All they need to do is give BCU's scripts for damage, rate of fire, missile velocity, explosion velocity, and explosion radius. No new module is needed.

I said I'm outta here but I can't - I'm so angry

I just cannot understand why pushing so much, it's like this ancillary nonsense MUST BE delivered?! Moreover, it seems it is ALREADY included in the package called Rubicon! Rise keeps saying - it will be changed if needed, we will see, later, soon... a DONE DEAL guys, nothing we can do before it's OUT. What madness is this? It reminds me of Incarna fiasco with Captain Quarters and the NeX of the crap...

Kinda hoped CCP will learn from it but

Just no. If they did that for BCU's it would effectively be another nerf to missles. Mag stabs don't have scripts and neither do other primary weapon systems. Missiles need new mods just like tracking computers exist for guns. End of Story.

What external forums are supporting this idea by the way? I really want to see that.

Can we get a list of which CSM members supported this change, so I know who not to vote for?

RLML changes now available on Sisi.

Also, at 18th evening, i'll ritually self-destruct my RLML Cerberus, feel free to join!

Can we get a list of which CSM members supported this change, so I know who not to vote for?

Just no. If they did that for BCU's it would effectively be another nerf to missles. Mag stabs don't have scripts and neither do other primary weapon systems. Missiles need new mods just like tracking computers exist for guns. End of Story.

I supported the change.

Why does this not even suprise me.

CCP2011 is back. Not listening to the player base, knowing it better. Fu-ük y-+u, I'm not going to pay for this shGÇïit. o7

3min (BURST DAMAGE) quick check on Sisi, without comments:

RLML Cerberus

glad to see you CSM folks finally showing up, but at this point it's too little too late.

Its just the case, as is here, that the playerbase is often split on something, and you're not in the part we agree with.

Are you stuck in a world where the CSM is contractually obligated to agree with the playerbase on every single thing, or did you just not read what either Malcanis or I posted?


PS we do both agree with the playerbase. We often do. Its just the case, as is here, that the playerbase is often split on something, and you're not in the part we agree with. Better luck next time?

I supported the change.

Finally, I am - no false modesty here - a ~good poster~. I can present a reasoned, logical, structured argument, and I can follow one when it's presented to me. If I am elected, I will represent my philosophy to CCP effectively. I will also make the attempt to increase the communication between the CSM and you, the players with regular reports and posts right here on this forum. I will not hide these communications away on a blog, they will be here, on record, where you can respond to them.

Can you imagine what would happen if a frigate landed as he was shooting that battleship. If he didn't have enough missiles remaining in his clip he would be unable to effectively do anything about the frigate for over 40 seconds. What if it's an enyo, ishkur, harpy or hawk? Then even with a mostly full clip he still has to swap out of kinetic to be able to break their tank. 40 seconds in a long time and this mechanic will get you killed often enough that there becomes no reason to use rlm at all when you can use something like a pulse omen or rail thorax and be able to, well, not actually die in a fire if a frigate suddenly appears at random.