And the thing you need to understand is that a Caracal with web+scram have the same tank than all attack cruisers with comparable speed.

36kehp for a T1 attack cruiser with 1800m/s is insane. Only combat cruiser get that, and their speed is more in the 1000-1400m/s range.

Id like to see this 36k ehp caracal with a scram and web.

36kehp is RLML Caracal with warp disruptor only.

Well here is a vid showing what RLML Caracal with warp disruptor only can do. Of course, it would take an eternity to switch to a proper missiles so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On9RXc-zkzU

I only saw the comments (can't see the video right now) saying that was scourge fury LM vs a Hawk...

There's nothing to add to this honestly, it says everything about your expectations.

Hawk was the only one in range at first and do you think he would do much better by shooting Raptor or Maller? 40 seconds reload = Bringing Solo Back!

PS : BTW it's rather easy to make a video of an AF tackling and murdering a cruiser. In fact, a turret cruiser tackled by an AF barely have any chance to survive.

Why were you loaded with scourge fury here ? And why did you take a RLML Caracal in the first place ?

And to put the 40s reload in perspective, a 1 AU warp take 30 seconds to a T1 cruiser. Considering align time and lock time, you're done for a reload.

"A turret cruiser that is tackled has no chance to survive"
->Videos are linked where turret cruisers that are tackled shake the tackle and live
"Videos dont prove anything"

I am continuing to use them.

Gypsio, your last post that you used them in 0.0, you talked about a significant gang made up of many other ships in support of yours. This is where a 20% dps nerf and a 40 second reload, don't really matter as much.

There are stories of Velator killing Tornado too. That's why a video, and an example in general, don't prove anything : you can show whatever you want in a video, and it's easy to showcase a cruiser killing a complete moron in an AF.

But seriously don't you already know that ? Will I need to take your hand every time like that for you make connections between ideas and stop considering anyone not agreeing with you all for an idiot ?

You also shifted the goalpost quite badly here, as I was talking about how a RLML Caracal was OP compared to any other T1 cruiser and how HAM are fine.

I know of a 790 dps Thorax that would take significant exception to that.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/67453-800-DPS-Thorax.html

Gypsio, your last post that you used them in 0.0, you talked about a significant gang made up of many other ships in support of yours. This is where a 20% dps nerf and a 40 second reload, don't really matter as much.

But imagine a fight where all your ships stop firing for 40 seconds, and did 20% less DPS than they did the week before?

For PVE, solo and small gangs, where fitting the right missiles, can make or break a fight, its a big deal. For bigger gangs with mixed ships, of course the effects of these changes will be diminished.

Oh I agree absolutely. The change is really tough on soloers, but there's more to Eve than soloing. The burst damage is quite well suited to a range-flexible gang skirmisher. Having said all that, while I like the idea of the burst damage in principle, I still think 40 s is too long and too frustrating. About 30 s would be much better, even at the cost of less burst damage, although that would also make life less frustrating for the frigate being shot

I don't think anyone is saying they're awesome. I certainly haven't been, although analysis that doesn't fit into binary end-members may be confusing you.

Your idea about giving all weapons 40 s reloads isn't great. The mechanic is interesting because it's different to other weapons.

Exactly what Gypsio said.

I'd add that RLML now have a proper niche role as they were designed instead of the role of HML.

Or the 900 DPS Shield Vexor...

I know of a 790 dps Thorax that would take significant exception to that.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/67453-800-DPS-Thorax.html

This! In web/scram range the vexor would melt a RLML Caracal no question. In disruptor range it would be a close fight with the old RLML set up, because the vexor would still be doing crazy dps especially if it had rails... step in CCP Rise we are now humped no matter where it starts.

What do you not understand in "damage projection" and "tank" ? This Thorax is basically the reverse of a caldari missile ship and the Vexor is even worse, showcasing the mighty Ogre II.

In fact, if you have any consideration for these ships, you should cheer the new RLML as they are just that : a gank weapon. You only trade tank for reload. Instead of dying after 50 seconds, you only have to reload. Consider too that the mentionned dps is absolutely not even close to the dps these blaster ships will do to frigates, and I don't even talk about damage projection.

The vexor either have railguns or blasters, not both. They both have HUGE weaknesses, like tracking for the first which make it unable to hit anything in scram range and range for the second which make it unable to hit anything outside scramrange.

Also, they both have the ehp of a tanky AF, and the Vexor is even slower than an ABC...

In fact, a HAML Caracal could kill these two cruisers. In an hypothetical 1v1, Vexor would be a no match and Thorax would depend on how the fight start. In any other case a HAML Caracal would be better because of more ehp and (a lot lot lot) more damage projection.

All in all it's easy to underline all the drawbacks of a weapon system while hiding all of its strengths and doing the reverse with an other one.


That's basically the main problem with old RLML : they were too good at too many things. They anihilated frigates and they were decently balanced against cruisers. That was too much.

What do you not understand in "damage projection" and "tank" ? This Thorax is basically the reverse of a caldari missile ship and the Vexor is even worse, showcasing the mighty Ogre II.

In fact, if you have any consideration for these ships, you should cheer the new RLML as they are just that : a gank weapon. You only trade tank for reload. Instead of dying after 50 seconds, you only have to reload. Consider too that the mentionned dps is absolutely not even close to the dps these blaster ships will do to frigates, and I don't even talk about damage projection.

The vexor either have railguns or blasters, not both. They both have HUGE weaknesses, like tracking for the first which make it unable to hit anything in scram range and range for the second which make it unable to hit anything outside scramrange.

Also, they both have the ehp of a tanky AF, and the Vexor is even slower than an ABC...

In fact, a HAML Caracal could kill these two cruisers. In an hypothetical 1v1, Vexor would be a no match and Thorax would depend on how the fight start. In any other case a HAML Caracal would be better because of more ehp and (a lot lot lot) more damage projection.

All in all it's easy to underline all the drawbacks of a weapon system while hiding all of its strengths and doing the reverse with an other one.


That's basically the main problem with old RLML : they were too good at too many things. They anihilated frigates and they were decently balanced against cruisers. That was too much.

why not just change the light missile specialization to affect missile damage instead would help a bit to keep a better sustained dps then the current giving 2% better rof if you have to split the missiles in to groups.