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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1661
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 18:51:00 -
[151] - Quote
"These two changes (new skill and adjusted tax base values) mean that the NPC portion of the tax is going to be less than it is right now." Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
84
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 18:54:00 -
[152] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:"These two changes (new skill and adjusted tax base values) mean that the NPC portion of the tax is going to be less than it is right now."
I'm looking forward to that adjustment and the new skill, but seriously, I expect to just get locked out of dropping anything at all. I believe that was listed as a feature. |

Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
159
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 18:54:00 -
[153] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:"These two changes (new skill and adjusted tax base values) mean that the NPC portion of the tax is going to be less than it is right now." From the dev blog in question: "The NPC tax will continue for hi sec POCOs (as we want low sec POCOs to still be competitive). The tax rate stays the same, at 10% for export and 5% for import. This is then in addition to whatever tax the player owner sets." |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
84
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 18:56:00 -
[154] - Quote
It'll still be less tax, just the same percent. And this person who doesn't know what is going on doesn't actually track the tax anyway. :P |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17341
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 18:59:00 -
[155] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:"The NPC tax will continue for hi sec POCOs (as we want low sec POCOs to still be competitive). The tax rate stays the same, at 10% for export and 5% for import. This is then in addition to whatever tax the player owner sets." GǪand the NPC portion of the tax is going to be less than it is right now, so if you're not illiterate, it's not hard to realise that you won't need any magical trick for the final tax to be lower. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1661
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:03:00 -
[156] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:I'm looking forward to that adjustment and the new skill, but seriously, I expect to just get locked out of dropping anything at all. I believe that was listed as a feature.
Except that would completely defeat the purpose of dropping them. The only place you're likely to see higher taxes is on planets closest to trade hubs, and the only place you'll see lockouts is random ass-end systems where people who don't know any better take them and lock everyone out who doesn't care anyway.
All this chiken-littling is from perma-hisec players who see the writing on the wall for easy-isk making in hisec. It has nothing to do with new players, and everything to do with people who want to eat their cake and have it too. These people have long identified their interests with those of new players out of greed, when there is little they have in common beyond the general systems they operate in. They have about as much in common as FW and pirates do in lowsec (ie, they're sort of around each other occasionally). Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
84
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:16:00 -
[157] - Quote
Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3282
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:25:00 -
[158] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:I've only been around less than a month, am I a bittervet already? Isn't it important to know what is going on in the game? Did you know that newbie doesn't equal uninformed?
This is the funniest post today when the subject is about you misunderstanding the POCO issue lol.
Welcome to yet another subject where "null sec people" end up schooling :high sec people" on high sec mechanics. like I've said before, High Sec doesn't teach players anything, not like low, null and wormhole space does.
|

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1663
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:31:00 -
[159] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either.
I also don't know if my co-workers will be there when I get to my job in the morning, but based on past behaviour and a general understanding of the various incentives involved I can make a good guess.
That said, I'll take your response over "people in npc corp chat said goons have infiltrated CCP and are going to lock out all new players from hisec pocos so the maritanini can buy a Ferrari for his dog". Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |

Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
494
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:32:00 -
[160] - Quote
I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go! AUT5M - Active HiSec/WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Inquire within. 5mSP minimum, full API required. |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:37:00 -
[161] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go!
So you're planning to leave us? |

Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
496
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:38:00 -
[162] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:Xuixien wrote:I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go! So you're planning to leave us?
NOU AUT5M - Active HiSec/WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Inquire within. 5mSP minimum, full API required. |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:39:00 -
[163] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either. I also don't know if my co-workers will be there when I get to my job in the morning, but based on past behaviour and a general understanding of the various incentives involved I can make a good guess. That said, I'll take your response over "people in npc corp chat said goons have infiltrated CCP and are going to lock out all new players from hisec pocos so the maritanini can buy a Ferrari for his dog".
There have never been POCOs in high-sec before. There is no past behavior to judge from. But, understand the various incentives is another thing.
Are the people who get POCOs going to be griefers who just want to collect hi-sec tears by shutting us off, or do they have a profit motive to have good ferried through their POCO?
Once someone owns it I'll feel better. |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2136
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:39:00 -
[164] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either. As a matter of fact, I actually do, since I've made our plans for them. Provided we are able to take and hold the POCOs we want, we'll set a 5% tax rate for blues and neutrals, and a 50-100% tax rate for reds.
And done.
You train your skills up and you'll pay a total of 10% in taxes, which if I'm not mistaken is actually less than you do now.
Why?
While the rage and tears that we'll have the opportunity to hold the POCOs at all is valuable to us, the income stream from collecting the taxes is even more valuable, and we'd hate to drive people away.
Of course if someone else is able to take them from us, you can't necessarily count on them being so benevolent.  Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
496
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:40:00 -
[165] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: How can it be that, 70 million SP and 5 years later, i am still running missions and mining?
CCP is going nothing to provid anything worth his time, his skill, his money, and suit to his prefered gameplay.
Wormholes are too dangerous and belong only to a special chaste of players.
Just going to leave this here and let others draw the conclusion that the problem with your game isn't CCP, it's you.
AUT5M - Active HiSec/WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Inquire within. 5mSP minimum, full API required. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3283
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:41:00 -
[166] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go!
EVE has always in one way or another had games to compete with it.
There are games right now that offer the things these"tards" say they want, but they won't go play them, they'd rather sit and be miserable in EVE on the off chance CCP "comes to it's senses" and destroys the winning formula that has allowed it to survive for 10 years....
Nope, Tards gonna Tard, that means that they will try SC after loudly announcing on this forum that they are leaving, find that it doesn't have the same things that EVE has (because the SC DEVs are TELLING people upfront what the game will be like, which is falling on deaf ears), and in a stunning reversal, return to playing EVE Online...but their return will be a whole order of magnitude quieter than their departure.
|

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3283
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:44:00 -
[167] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either. As a matter of fact, I actually do, since I've made our plans for them. Provided we are able to take and hold the POCOs we want, we'll set a 5% tax rate for blues and neutrals, and a 50-100% tax rate for reds. And done. You train your skills up and you'll pay a total of 10% in taxes, which if I'm not mistaken is actually less than you do now. Why? While the rage and tears that we'll have the opportunity to hold the POCOs at all is valuable to us, the income stream from collecting the taxes is even more valuable, and we'd hate to drive people away. Of course if someone else is able to take them from us, you can't necessarily count on them being so benevolent. 
Queuing the anti-Goon tinfoil hat crew! This is your chance to explain to us how Goons are doing this to destroy EVE through the ingenious plan of lower taxes for carebears!!!!!
Goons are teh evil.
|

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5130
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:45:00 -
[168] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Xuixien wrote:I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go! EVE has always in one way or another had games to compete with it. There are games right now that offer the things these"tards" say they want, but they won't go play them, they'd rather sit and be miserable in EVE on the off chance CCP "comes to it's senses" and destroys the winning formula that has allowed it to survive for 10 years.... Nope, Tards gonna Tard, that means that they will try SC after loudly announcing on this forum that they are leaving, find that it doesn't have the same things that EVE has (because the SC DEVs are TELLING people upfront what the game will be like, which is falling on deaf ears), and in a stunning reversal, return to playing EVE Online...but their return will be a whole order of magnitude quieter than their departure. Back into the belts of highsec? :getin: There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:45:00 -
[169] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:I've only been around less than a month, am I a bittervet already? Isn't it important to know what is going on in the game? Did you know that newbie doesn't equal uninformed? This is the funniest post today when the subject is about you misunderstanding the POCO issue lol. Welcome to yet another subject where "null sec people" end up schooling :high sec people" on high sec mechanics. like I've said before, High Sec doesn't teach players anything, not like low, null and wormhole space does.
So I should fly out to losec and get pod-killed by a pirate because I won't pay million ISK bounties instead... because I don't have the skills to fight yet, don't know how to fit a ship yet, and even if I did, wouldn't have the money or skills to fit a ship properly for PVP?
I'm just trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do here.
I can't survive in a WH because sleepers would kill me.
I can go to null sec if I become a member of an alliance but I can't do anything alone yet so I don't really have a business plan yet, and any plan I did have would have better skilled pilots doing it better than me and I'd also have to travel a longer way to get to a trade hub.
Also they're just as likely to think I'm a spy as new.
Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI.
And I guess I just won't 'learn' so much about what null people want because until now, they've been in null. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14556
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:46:00 -
[170] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote: There have never been POCOs in high-sec before. There is no past behavior to judge from. But, understand the various incentives is another thing.
Are the people who get POCOs going to be griefers who just want to collect hi-sec tears by shutting us off, or do they have a profit motive to have good ferried through their POCO?
Once someone owns it I'll feel better.
There may not have been POCOs in highsec before, but they've been in every other area of space for quite a while. We can anticipate what difference they're going to make by looking at what happened when they were introduced to those other areas.
The sheer number of available planets in highsec will make it nigh on impossible for any one group to control and hold on to more than a figurative handful of them, and most of those will be close to the main trade hubs and routes. I would say that as long as you're more than 5 or 6 jumps away from the hubs and the chokepoints, it'll be business as usual with 99% of the customs offices still being in NPC hands.
I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
|

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:48:00 -
[171] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either. As a matter of fact, I actually do, since I've made our plans for them. Provided we are able to take and hold the POCOs we want, we'll set a 5% tax rate for blues and neutrals, and a 50-100% tax rate for reds. And done. You train your skills up and you'll pay a total of 10% in taxes, which if I'm not mistaken is actually less than you do now. Why? While the rage and tears that we'll have the opportunity to hold the POCOs at all is valuable to us, the income stream from collecting the taxes is even more valuable, and we'd hate to drive people away. Of course if someone else is able to take them from us, you can't necessarily count on them being so benevolent. 
I'm planning to take over my own planets' COs. I won't be able to hold them though. And I'm not sure if my corpmates are into it. And even if they are, I'm not sure I have the DPS to do it. But it's floating around in my mind. |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:50:00 -
[172] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Jythier Smith wrote: There have never been POCOs in high-sec before. There is no past behavior to judge from. But, understand the various incentives is another thing.
Are the people who get POCOs going to be griefers who just want to collect hi-sec tears by shutting us off, or do they have a profit motive to have good ferried through their POCO?
Once someone owns it I'll feel better.
There may not have been POCOs in highsec before, but they've been in every other area of space for quite a while. We can anticipate what difference they're going to make by looking at what happened when they were introduced to those other areas. The sheer number of available planets in highsec will make it nigh on impossible for any one group to control and hold on to more than a figurative handful of them, and most of those will be close to the main trade hubs and routes. I would say that as long as you're more than 5 or 6 jumps away from the hubs and the chokepoints, it'll be business as usual with 99% of the customs offices still being in NPC hands.
Who wants to be that far away from a trade hub? Back when I started, just before the Rubicon announcement of these things, at least, before I saw it, I thought, hey, I should be close to a trade hub... that will only help me. What could go wrong? |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3286
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 19:58:00 -
[173] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote: So I should fly out to losec and get pod-killed by a pirate because I won't pay million ISK bounties instead... because I don't have the skills to fight yet, don't know how to fit a ship yet, and even if I did, wouldn't have the money or skills to fit a ship properly for PVP?
You say you are 2 months old. their are guides and player organizations like EVe Uni all over the place to help you.. You should be able to fit a rifter or something.
But the above is moot, who said anything about forcing you to go pvp?
Quote: I'm just trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do here.
I can't survive in a WH because sleepers would kill me.
it doesn't take long to train for a Drake or similar battecruiser is you want to do low level wormholes.
Quote: I can go to null sec if I become a member of an alliance but I can't do anything alone yet so I don't really have a business plan yet, and any plan I did have would have better skilled pilots doing it better than me and I'd also have to travel a longer way to get to a trade hub.
There are NPC stations in NPC null....
Quote: Also they're just as likely to think I'm a spy as new.
Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI.
And I guess I just won't 'learn' so much about what null people want because until now, they've been in null.
No, you aren't learning anything at all about the games working beyond the limited things you are doing. That's the exact point.
We see it all the time, players who have played for 2 years or more in high sec and have worked up the courage to try null. So they come out and don't have basic flying or fitting or tactical/survival skills.
You see, in low sec, null and wormholes, the game gives you feed back of the most negative kind: screw up and die/lose money. That usually only happens in high sec to inexperienced players (which is why, according to a 2011 dev blog about ships killed in EVE, most of the PVE deaths in high sec are frigate sized ships, very few people die in high sec PVE once they can fly a battleship).
It is extremely funny watching a fresh out of high sec miner who joined some renter corp try to mine in null the 1st time NPC battleships appear in a belt and kills them. Seems they honestly don't know you have to fit a tank and maybe have DPS support to mine in null lol.
No one is saying you should do anything other than what you want, just commenting on the standard "misunderstandings" we see on this forum from uniformed "high sec only" players.
|

Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
498
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 20:00:00 -
[174] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:I don't have the skills to fight yet, don't know how to fit a ship yet, even if I did, wouldn't have the money or skills
Couple of things: 1) What's the magical number of SP to be able to fight? Can you tell me? 2) What's the magical number of ISK to be able to fight? Can you tell me? 3) If you played EVE Online instead of EVE Singleplayer, you could ask other players how to fit your ships.
Jythier Smith wrote:Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI.
Everyone everywhere should just stick to the easy things that they're good at instead of stepping out of the comfort zones and getting better at other, different things. Confirming that the solution to the problem of being bored with what you do is to just keep doing it! AUT5M - Active HiSec/WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Inquire within. 5mSP minimum, full API required. |

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 20:02:00 -
[175] - Quote
I'm cautious, see.
At first I refused to mine below .9 because there would be rats there.
Now I know my drones can handle .7 rats.
Who knows where I'll be in a week?
Exciting, you know? |

Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
171
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 20:03:00 -
[176] - Quote
Niec Mogul wrote: 'Cause we all know that's how it would go down. I mean really, who wouldn't bite that hook? You'll be where? You'll be flying ****-for-tanks mining ships? You're gonna pay me to show up? Well yeah, I think I'll be right on over!
Now surely some apologist will be along in a moment crowing "ruined reputations" and how "no one would hire such a merc corp after a few kills." Sure buddy. You go ahead and name a few corps that are still around with such sullied names. Painted so red that they just can't get hired anymore. I'm positive that there's just scads of them lurking in the shadows, hiding in the corners from their prior deeds...
Also, don't ask me how they got tires on a Tornado. Or how they peeled out in space. I'm sure it'll be in a future expansion.
There may well be cases of that but they'll also be new enterprises to breathe some life back into the merc game and who would be trustworthy if they want to make a profit.
In any case the indy corp could develop it's own pvp wing to protect it.
I accept that there would be problems removing Concord but I'm not so sure that it would be any worse for miners as they are prey to suicide ganks already so what's changed? This at least would allow them to be proactive in their own defence.
It would make logistics harder as escorts would be needed for transporting stuff, so yes it would need to be worked out carefully and some game rebalancing would be needed
|

Jythier Smith
WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 20:07:00 -
[177] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:I don't have the skills to fight yet, don't know how to fit a ship yet, even if I did, wouldn't have the money or skills Couple of things: 1) What's the magical number of SP to be able to fight? Can you tell me? 2) What's the magical number of ISK to be able to fight? Can you tell me? 3) If you played EVE Online instead of EVE Singleplayer, you could ask other players how to fit your ships. Jythier Smith wrote:Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI. Everyone everywhere should just stick to the easy things that they're good at instead of stepping out of the comfort zones and getting better at other, different things. Confirming that the solution to the problem of being bored with what you do is to just keep doing it!
Oh, you think I'm bored with those things? Tragic to have such a misunderstanding of what was being said.
I'm assuming that everyone wants me to leave hisec and go do something else for my own good, and commenting on why I shouldn't do that.
Basically, the rats will kill me. And if they don't, the players will.
I prefer economic competition to combat. Combat sort of... bores me. The hi-sec stuff is very enjoyable.
Then I read a post or two about how excited someone else is to fight and loot and win and all that and I get itchy to get out there and shoot something.
So I know I'll try it someday, and hopefully it'll be a nice break from brainburning economics. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17342
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 20:07:00 -
[178] - Quote
By the way, doing PI in lowsec is truly trivial and requires all of 5 seconds of exposure at the pick-up. The chances of being killed while doing that are pretty much nil.
Lower taxes, higher output, less crowding. There are quite literally no downsides to itGǪ well, maybe the three weeks to get a Blockade Runner, but given the sheer usefulness of that class, I can't honestly call it a downside. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1665
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 20:11:00 -
[179] - Quote
I absolutely sympathize with the plight of the new player, and you still sound fresh enough that you are asking questions instead of making statements, so i think people should cut you a little more slack here.
That said, there has been some excellent advice so far, albeit a bit snarky, and I can only reinforce the general message that they're giving. The way to get better is to get out there and learn. Actual player knowledge and skill trumps SP, ISK, and often even the power of numbers. It is the one resource that cannot be bought, traded, stolen, or anything else except learned through experience and a good attitude.
My answer to everyone and anyone who ever ask 'what should I do?" in eve, regardless of age or experience, is always "get out there and meet people. If they suck or you get bored or you progress beyond them, then get out there and meet other people." That's essentially the game, and CCP does a ****-poor job of communicating and reinforcing that fact, but it's the truth. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3288
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 20:13:00 -
[180] - Quote
Quote:Jythier Smith wrote:
Everyone everywhere should just stick to the easy things that they're good at instead of stepping out of the comfort zones and getting better at other, different things. Confirming that the solution to the problem of being bored with what you do is to just keep doing it!
Oh, you think I'm bored with those things? Tragic to have such a misunderstanding of what was being said. I'm assuming that everyone wants me to leave hisec and go do something else for my own good, and commenting on why I shouldn't do that. Basically, the rats will kill me. And if they don't, the players will. I prefer economic competition to combat. Combat sort of... bores me. The hi-sec stuff is very enjoyable. Then I read a post or two about how excited someone else is to fight and loot and win and all that and I get itchy to get out there and shoot something. So I know I'll try it someday, and hopefully it'll be a nice break from brainburning economics. '
Your displaying the limited view that hisec people tend to have. No one is telling you specifically to do anything. No one cares what you do. I'm not a PVPr myself.
But we are commenting on the fact that you are limiting yourself. Many many MANY high sec people display that same kind of self-limiting behavior, even when it comes to other high sec activities (no reason to leave high sec if you don't want to). I know high sec players who do nothing but run missions year after year despite the fact that they themselves will say it bores them. It's madness to me. |
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