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Mitch Taylor
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:35:00 -
[91]
 Quote:
Jade, the decisions made by SI had nothing to do with me. As my sig states, I am merely a peon in the works.
Although one thing I can say is that I have recieved neither money, ships, modules, ore, minerals, weapons, ammo or trade goods from TTi.
Neither have I done and work for them, 'dirty' or otherwise.
Maybe I need to check with my superiors, but as far as I'm aware, leaving an alliance at the same time as another corp does not immediately put us in their pocket.
what amazed me most was that during the meeting, nothing happened for ages and ages, so I went to make a sandwich, and upon my return, war had broken out.
There were far too many hot heads in that council room for this to have turned out any other way.
Have you considered the possibility that your oh so loved leader has simply signed a deal to lead you all into oblivion thanks to a sweetner from TTI?
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Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:36:00 -
[92]
No payment involved here Jade. As a combat pilot I was, maybe am, just unhappy with the fact that Jericho never stood besides us on the battlefield. I attacked only Jericho with my words and not anybody else.
Even if you aren't a fighter yourself, it has always been the generals that show they're there with their men that get the greatest respect. From that anger resulted the things I said, justified or not. As you know from last nights chat I'm pretty divided in my thoughts about this matter and certainly not personally hostile to the VA.
I will however stand with the decisions of my corp's leadership and the resulting allies of those decisions unquestioned.
Like I said to the alliance last night, it's a pity we'll have to stand on opposites of the barrel from now on.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:42:00 -
[93]
Drunken m'dear, Ragnar wasn't in the council room. And re the SI role, mostly I think the perception is created by Ragnar and TTI themselves - Ragnar certainly waxes lyrical on the role of this new hirelings.
I don't doubt any part of your word re actually receiving equipment from Taggart though. Having spent a couple of fruitless weeks trying to convince that miserly shower to part with a single isk in defense of their regional alliance partners I fully appreciate the correlations with dead horses and flogging.
Do give me a call if you ever see the light m'dear, I would hate to see you betrayed in the way I was a couple of weeks down the line.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Jeffor
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:48:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Jeffor on 01/09/2003 13:50:05
Reason tti doesnt give out money to people is that tti's money is in the pockets of those who deserve it (meaning we keep what we earn ourselves.)
(except for a small tax)
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:52:00 -
[95]
>>
There were far too many hot heads in that council room for this to have turned out any other way.
>>
Actually, I tend to disagree with that. As was agreed yesterday at the close of the council meeting, I hope that the full logs of the meeting will soon be revealed to everyone who wishes to read them. At the point that the votes reached 5-6 I was resigned to an on-going war of attrition. I suspect that some other corps would have left voluntarily and peacefully in the following days. On the conclusion of the vote Ragnar's statement was relayed to the council. Prior to that there was no question or suggestion of any council member attacking or threatening another.
TTi have gained nothing from this other than an additional set of corps out for their blood, and the rather dubious allies M3G4 (who are well known as petty ore thieves and 1.0 system killers). To this minute I cannot quantify the stupidity of the incredibly poorly timed and ill-conceived statement which served no purpose for TTi. One almost wonders if Evolution have bought out Ragnar?
As to SI, the council logs will clearly show that all corporations within VA supported their case and it will sadden me greatly if we come to blows. I have resolved in my personal actions to only take defensive measures if attacked by SI - unless they are in the company of TTi raiders.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:54:00 -
[96]
Liberation of Venal
That's the phrase being thrown about by those who have been turned on by TTI: what a joke. Let's be clear, for the rest of us that phrase is total spin (and those in the UK will what a dirty word that is currently). Resembles the product I grew up with on a farm.
It isn't a liberation of Venal: it is a fight to determine which cartel splinter gets to maintain their control of the region. It won't liberate it: those who don't belong to the Alliance will still be barred.
Frankly TTI seem to have behaved despicably, but I for one don't regard their new enemies as the shining paragons of virtue they are trying to spin themselves as. What you have is one land grabbing cartel split in two under assualt from a rival cartel.
And as for claiming democracy. A small committe of the heads of the few corps which decided to take control of the region is not democracy: it's a politbureau. Where was the democracy for all those forced out when the Alliance was formed? Democracy requires that those few voting were elected representatives, not those who grabbed power: just because you call it the Democratic Council does not make it so. I didn't hear much about defending the weak, defending freedom etc. then. Just instructions to leave or else. Nor was there any condemnation of the pirate corps enforcing this instruction, just weasel words, by both side of the current conflict.
As far as I am concerned both sides of this intra-cartel war are reaping what they sowed.
Maybe both sides have been weakened enough for Venal to be truely liberated.
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Deathwing
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:55:00 -
[97]
OMG VA HELP US!!!
OUR MINERS!!!
THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED!!!
WHAT??? YOU LOST SHIPS DEFENDING OUR SORRY BEHINDS? WELL, WE WILL NOT GIVE YOU A SINGLE ISK BECAUSE YOU DIDNT MINE THE BISOT THEY WAS MINING WHILE YOU WERE OUT DEFENDING THEM!!!!
NO ISK FOR YOU, YOU WANT ISK GO MINE IT YOURSELF, BUT REST ASSURED WE WILL NOT PREOTECT YOU LIKE YOU DID US!!!!
GO UBER MEGA CAPITOLISM!!!!
QUICK, HIRE SOME PIRATES, WE NEED ESCORTS OUT OF VENAL!!!!
<Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.01 13:56:00 -
[98]
"Reason tti doesnt give out money to people is that tti's money is in the pockets of those who deserve it (meaning we keep what we earn ourselves.)"
... Stavr0s, hon... watch and learn. :s
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.09.01 14:02:00 -
[99]
Quote:
Hardin, PIE, A word of advise monsieur, you really donÆt want to take RagnarÆs cause in this, he is currently in shoot the allies in the search for imagined spies mode. Though you and I are in the pre-war dance of concord negotiations IÆll give you a little PR consultancy for free à aiding a madman in his dying spasms is not going to do anything for your cause.
Dearest Jade...
I said nothing of taking Ragnar's side in this.
As I recall twas you who declared war on PIE Inc and not the other way round.
I was simply suggesting that you could lighten your current woes by simply making a public statement accepting the Amarr right to deal in slaves (which your Jericho Fraction colleague Athule would surely support) and making a small ISK donation to PIE Inc for wasting our time 
To be honest we have no interest in your petty Venal squabblings and view the Taggart bounty simply as a nice bonus for killing you (something we were planning to do eventually anyway  )
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.01 14:09:00 -
[100]
Well, this is all coming to the boil nicely!
Nice to see all the grey lines becoming inked in black
Drunkenmaster: I've never understand why a clearly articulate and intelligent man is hanging out with a skank like Setec. Nevermind - much is wasted in Eve!
Good luck to the new Evolution (sorry, couldn't resist) of Venal.
Jade - I need 100m isk - what say we get together and I pod you, and then we split the bounty 50/50?
--------------------------------------------
Dead
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.01 14:16:00 -
[101]
People, people... people.
Just because two pirate corps left VA at the same time as TTi, does *not* mean we are in their pockets, or working for them. Despite what the unbiased* news would tell you.
We have, and still do, work for ourselves.
One of the resons we left when we did, is that FA came up with the ridiculous notion that we would renounce piracy. I'm taking a step here and speaking for my corp (when I probably shouldn't) when I say that we have no intention of renouncing piracy.
Like I seem to tell 5-10 people every day, don't believe everything you read..
* ahahahahaha
.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.01 14:37:00 -
[102]
Monsieur Georg, Freelancer Union, you have read what I have said; you may believe me or no. But the fight now has gone beyond cartels and splintergroups, if the VA Council loyalists (free Venal) are successful in driving out TTI and their allies then the nature of Venal will change forever. There will be a time of immigration and stability, the old ways of wanton piracy and destruction to the greater glory of Taggart will be ended forever, change will come.
I appeal to your Gallente nature monsieur; dare to dream and hope thereon. It is easy to stand apart and hurl disparagement and accusations with no direct experience of the matters unfolding right now. Harder yet to take a stand and help the future far unfold in the interests of liberty and free commerce my friend.
Nobody claimed idealism was easy monsieur Georg
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.09.01 14:45:00 -
[103]
arrrgahrarh the roleplay, its killling me...
my eyes.... owwww......
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"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Sally
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Posted - 2003.09.01 14:50:00 -
[104]
Jade it her best. Speaking.
Too sad, that you have lost your honor.
In the middle of a war you started to negotiate with a war party, our common enemy. In a shady vote you tried to kick out a major alliance member (TTI), critisising its support to the VA and not providing any noticable support by yourself.
You also talked to our common enemy about Space Invaders and the removal of pirate actions in Venal and Pure-Blind.
We were allied, as in united. United doesn't mean bashing an alliance partner to benefit our war enemy ONLY. TTI and SI have lost trust in you and others and left the alliance because of it. Basicly you were helping Evolution and their friends to remove TTI from the alliance.
Even TTI and SI operate in different business areas, there is something common: We are honourable, we do not promise anything we can't deliver and we keep our word once we give it.
Enough to stick with TTI for me. One old friend is better than two new ones.
You and the other deserve the death of a traitor.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Spawn El'Marr
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:04:00 -
[105]
I thought TTI was the ones who lost all their Honor a long time ago when they allied with Pirates ... humm??
But it may be different when it's pure business, right?
Founder and Joint CEO of the Swedish corp Absolut Profit
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Damaclease
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:05:00 -
[106]
Wow its all kicked off alright. 2 hours later after reading the posts .....
J0s: are you either blind or a TTi spin doctor all you seem to do is back them up when they are obviously in the wrong how do you account for them winning the Vote then turning on VA?
Jade and the rest of VA: fore sight is a great thing pitty you couldn't see what was going to happen (now that TTi has already strip mined alot of Venal)
Evo: good luck on the TTi bashing sounds like some of teh directors are space mad and need to be put down. I feel sorry for those that are being dragged into this.
So where does Eve stand now we have SA and FA that appear to be stable VA in the middle of civil war and PC pirates still running round.
personally i would love to see the Pirates obliterated as i'm more of a trader than anything else. So i do have a hatred for TTi for thier backing of SI and red skulls.
SA and RUS : have disappeared from the public attention i wonder what they are up to?
1 last thing PA doesn't come close to the alliances or stratages that eve has.
.... Goes back to playing eve
Damaclease
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Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:08:00 -
[107]
Jade,
Your new idealism seems born from necessity rather than any intrinsic moral conviction. Why did you not throw out your pirate elements before they left your side of the Alliance of their own choice. And who can blame them?
You were attempting to finally remove them, but only because it had become a military and strategic necessity for survival, enforced by the enemy, and in that you were defeated within your cartel board meeting. If TTI had not taken their inexplicable next action, that decision would have stood, the pirates would still be in your Alliance and you would not now be producing some very beautifully written, but ultimately empty, rhetoric to find new help.
True, I do not have direct experience of the Alliance's internal politics and that is why I write as I do, as one who sees the end results of your actions and those of your past and current allies.
We will see whether you promise of immigration and freedom last beyond your immediate need for help. The weight of history is not in your favour.
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Kaleb
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:13:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Kaleb on 01/09/2003 15:14:09
"Do give me a call if you ever see the light m'dear, I would hate to see you betrayed in the way I was a couple of weeks down the line.
Love and peace" - Jade, RE: Drunkenmaster
---
I've always wondered why Jericho and other members of the Venal Alliance condoned the pirating that occurred near the Venal borders. Jade herself has encouraged such things visibly in character in other places on these forums.
While all of this is very dramatic (read: deceptive) and entertaining (read: posturing), I think it's important for those corporations not directly involved, to remember the nature of all members of the Venal Alliance. In the past they have all condoned pirating, encouraged pirating in the Pure Blind or elsewhere. By allowing Space Invaders to begin with, it became very clear where the member corporations of the Venal Alliance stood regarding privateering: They support pirating as long as it benefits their wallets.
While it shouldn't be impossible for a corporation to turn a new leaf, one should certainly be cautious when dealing with a group of people as slippery as the Venal Alliance.
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Kaleb
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:15:00 -
[109]
Indeed Georg.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:26:00 -
[110]
Sally, you were wrong yesterday and you are wrong now. Everything I have presented here is accurate and often verified by multiple external sources. But now you desperately try to place an amateur spin on matters;
ôstart to negotiateö suggests I made the approach, but of course I didnÆt.
ôshady voteö what? So every VA corp was not represented in council for two subsequent evenings? Or is that just a stupid attempt at rhetorical spin without substance?
Criticising TTI commitment is a very poor accusation Sally, almost everybody who has read or posted to this thread has a very clear view of exactly how much TTI committed. And Athule has already trounced the suggestion that Jericho scrimped à so please donÆt expect to make much milage from that line, it demeans your reputation.
As for the reason I spoke about SI to the FA rep Sally, the reason, as I explained to you last night, was that some of your own corporation asked me to find out if there was any way they could be spared from the ôejectö TTI clause of the peace settlement. Many SI members have expressed doubts about going down with TTI in the long-run, and your corp-mates wanted the possibility of surviving in Venal.
So I asked, and I brought back the compromise to open council discussion, you didn't like it, fine, but never doubt the reason why I spoke to FA about your corp in the first place.
On balance, I think you badly misunderstand what has happened here, and you badly overestimate the desire of your corp-mates to serve as loyal lap-dogs to lunatic King Ragnar and his tattered remnants.
You donÆt appear to understand the meaning of the word ôhonourö, but then, that is hardly a surprise since you see no problem with RagnarÆs council room tactics and insane posturing.
I think you should consult with your CEO and corp-mates; and take some time to let this entire episode sink in. YouÆve clearly lost the plot somewhere along then way, and are currently doing nothing aside from embarrassing yourself and your fellows.
Love and peace.
JF Public Forum |
Sally
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:32:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Sally on 01/09/2003 15:32:37
"Many SI members have expressed doubts about going down with TTI in the long-run, and your corp-mates wanted the possibility of surviving in Venal."
Unlike you we don't have to ask anyone for anything in order to survive. We are fine on our own.
And unlike you we would rather die on the battlefield than selling an alliance partner out to the enemy.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:33:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 01/09/2003 15:34:15
Georg, you are not very wise person. It is true that VA liked pirates when they needed them. It is true that they liked TTI. It is true that VA alliance were as hostile to anyone else and undemocratic as one could be. Now they are splitting, starting a civil war.
As an opponent you could do 2 things:
1.) Attack prematurely (as you just did) on Jade. You blew your hand, and that may weaken VA and make Status Quo in Venal, thus you gain nothing except being a wiseass in forums.
2.) Keep your cool and wait patiently for the war to escalate. TTI gets hit, VA would be probably be at the frontline of the battle and mercs and freelancers at their side. VA gets the most casualties. TTI gets casualties. The VA is weakend (both old and new one). Then you move in and take control of it. So you settle the new and old debts at once.
Oh, well, people like to bash each others in forums too much for their own good. 
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:35:00 -
[113]
1st we asked for nothing for ourselves, as you know we wanted funding to rebuild the KIA fleet and replace the Scorpions of some noted VA pilots. Jericho has never lacked the ability to recover from our loses.
2nd i refer you to the text of the council discussion and suggest you try really hard to understand it this time.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Skillz
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:37:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Skillz on 01/09/2003 15:37:31
So does this mean TTI has been expelled from VA and is an enemy to them as well?
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Shamrock
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:40:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Shamrock on 01/09/2003 15:42:40
Some of you TTI Execs as well as the smaller TT Corps should realize that the universe of eve doesn't just start and end with TTI. You could very well start your own corps or join other respectable ones. Downsize and make some true friends ya know? It's not the quantity that makes this an interesting life in eve. It's the quality of relationships. It is never to late to start something new and with patience and hard work. You can make a name for yourself that has respect. The TTI name is forever ruined with the likes of Ragnar at the helm. Where the hell is the option to vote out the CEO's? I'm not being a propagandist here. I'm encouraging you to broaden your horizans and take control of your own destiny.
Shamrock
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.01 15:45:00 -
[116]
Kaleb, its quite simple, Drunken is a nice chap, and its always possible for an ex-pirate to find employment in a regional navy. Such things are not unknown in the politics of Eve.
Re past statements of mine Kaleb, always remember what I do(did) for a living; its my job to ease the public relations burden to oftimes unpalatable realities.
I took a form of contract with VA/TTI; and was bound to present the alliance in a better light than it perhaps deserved.
That was a job, sometimes as a mercenary you cannot choose your battles, and as a merchant you can't select the buyers of your ammunition and ordinance. Realities m'dear.
Now for the record, I am unemployed ... TTI broke contract with heinous betrayal and various VA factions have yet to elect a respresentative.
Hence, this is my unalloyed opinion you are now getting.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Azov
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Posted - 2003.09.01 16:00:00 -
[117]
No time to comment all this.
Some fun and excitement are about to be served on a platter.
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Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.01 16:00:00 -
[118]
Luc,
I have no hand to blow, I have no debts to settle. I have no designs on controlling any territory: it that very behaviour that I am critising. It is that behaviour in the Venal Alliance I want to ensure is not lost in their propanganda and in the understandable desire to see TTI removed from the field of play.
Remember, the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. If, as an antelope, I help the lion to kill the crocodile, the lion will still eat me when the crocodile lies dead.
I want fellow freelancers to remember that before they let their instinct to take advantage of TTI's weakness blind them to the fact that the Venal Alliance is not an entity that has been a friend of freedom as they now profess, and they too are weakened now.
Nor in the strategic sense do I believe that an attack on Venal would be premature. They are now at their weakest having fought hard and lost against their enemy. NOw that enemy has allied themselves with Venal and I judge that the new battle will be far less damaging to their forces and would expect their strength to increase.
I very probably have nothing to gain however this war ends, unless Venal ends up being reopened to free travel. I am not confident of that outcome.
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.09.01 16:12:00 -
[119]
You still don't understand, Eve is not moral battleground, flaming forums is not primary objective. What I am saying that all of that rhetorical crap is well known to freelancers, but keeping it to themselves to use it at right time might come handy.
Just putting some oil on flame over here that's all
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.01 16:13:00 -
[120]
Quote:
Kaleb, its quite simple, Drunken is a nice chap, and its always possible for an ex-pirate to find employment in a regional navy. Such things are not unknown in the politics of Eve.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I will not be turning in my parrot any time soon. And certainly not to 'police'* an area, for zero gain.
*pirate
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