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Sensor Error	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:05:00 - [211] See the thread on this in the ship setup forum, which is where this thread should be Linkage ------------------------------------------ Now run along and play with your dolls...
Hohenheim OfLight	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:08:00 - [212] I must admit my tempest much prefers a armor tank, it seams to last a lot longer. It also has the advantage that i can fit as many cap rechargers as i like, with out taking a penility, where as shild tanking, cap rechargers cost 10% to shild recharger or shild hp. Also since switching to san armor tank i ahve found that some missions i used to shild tank on, i dont even get in to armor on, I find the natrual regen of shilds alone seams to be enuth for most missions. ---------------------------------------------- http://www.auil51.dsl.pipex.com/EVE/evesig.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Davip This signature is 400x129 pixels and 23.257 bytes.
Iberi	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:15:00 - [213] Originally by: Oventoasted armor has better base resists. all shields will always be weak to EM so. a) It's only 20% for all, i.e in real world around 10%. b) What do you think about to play the game before states that ALL shields BE WEAKK to EM. Ever seen Minmatar's ships?
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:16:00 - [214] Want to play Crazy mode, shield tank. Want to play Easy mode, armour tank. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:04:00 - [215] Originally by: Iberi b) What do you think about to play the game before states that ALL shields BE WEAKK to EM. Ever seen Minmatar's ships? to clarify: minmatar t2 ships with enough midslots to actually tank with them, i.e. Vagabond Huginn Rapier Sleipnir Claymore Jaguar (just) Originally by: Zzazzt Originally by: thoth foc PA doesnt stand for anything.. Punchbag Alliance...
zincol	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:13:00 - [216] Sheild tanking is better if u ram ure lows with WCS so u can run like a homo when ure sheild is gone like most ppl these days,other wise Armor tank ftw.
nickycakes	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:14:00 - [217] Originally by: zincol Sheild tanking is better if u ram ure lows with WCS so u can run like a homo when ure sheild is gone like most ppl these days,other wise Armor tank ftw. 10/10
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:16:00 - [218] Originally by: zincol Sheild tanking is better if u ram ure lows with WCS so u can run like a homo when ure sheild is gone like most ppl these days,other wise Armor tank ftw. Wow, somebody's bitter. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! Stop whining about my signature - Wrangler \o/ ~kieron [\"] -Capsicum <3 -eris you wanted colours now you have them :) -eris..again Donuts and cAKe anyone? Jacques' Nikolai can post twice as fast as me, and i'm uber -zhuge liang Uhm, I'm new to this, does this work? clickety Oveur
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:16:00 - [219] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Gariuys But shield tanking can't be set too easymode ( as in letting everything run permanently ) shield tanking takes more micro management. USUALLY. Certain setups (Gistii Harpy, for example), make it very easy to do exactly that. Yeah, but that's leet loot, an area where shields beat armor silly, due to module stats inbalance. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:18:00 - [220] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: zincol Sheild tanking is better if u ram ure lows with WCS so u can run like a homo when ure sheild is gone like most ppl these days,other wise Armor tank ftw. Wow, somebody's bitter. He's been bitter the past 2 years, it's hardly worth a ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
zincol	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:20:00 - [221] lol,i speak the truth i dont like stabbies but its 1 of them things
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:20:00 - [222] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: zincol Sheild tanking is better if u ram ure lows with WCS so u can run like a homo when ure sheild is gone like most ppl these days,other wise Armor tank ftw. Wow, somebody's bitter. He's been bitter the past 2 years, it's hardly worth a At least he's not as bad as Nero Scuro. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! Stop whining about my signature - Wrangler \o/ ~kieron [\"] -Capsicum <3 -eris you wanted colours now you have them :) -eris..again Donuts and cAKe anyone? Jacques' Nikolai can post twice as fast as me, and i'm uber -zhuge liang Uhm, I'm new to this, does this work? clickety Oveur
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:21:00 - [223] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: zincol Sheild tanking is better if u ram ure lows with WCS so u can run like a homo when ure sheild is gone like most ppl these days,other wise Armor tank ftw. Wow, somebody's bitter. He's been bitter the past 2 years, it's hardly worth a At least he's not as bad as Nero Scuro. Noone is lol, he's made it into a art. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Pottsey	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:23:00 - [224] "It also has the advantage that i can fit as many cap rechargers as i like, with out taking a penility, where as shild tanking, cap rechargers cost 10% to shild recharger or shild hp." ThatÆs a disadvantage compared to shields. Amour tankers get to fit a module to boost cap with no penalty or bonus to tanking. Shield tankers get to fit a module that boosts shields HP regen and cap regen along with total hitpoints. ThatÆs an advantage to shield tankers not amour tankers. "But shield tanking can't be set too easymode ( as in letting everything run permanently ) shield tanking takes more micro management." Shield tanking can be set to easy mode. With no micro management and no cap problems. In fact itÆs more auto and easier then amour tanking as you donÆt even have to turn modules on and off for some shield tanking methods and it can for sure run permanently. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
000Hunter000	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:25:00 - [225] I fly Caldari ships so i shieldtank, when i fly Gall ships i armortank, when i fly Amarr ships i armortank, when i fly Mini ships i must be drunk...
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:26:00 - [226] Originally by: Pottsey "It also has the advantage that i can fit as many cap rechargers as i like, with out taking a penility, where as shild tanking, cap rechargers cost 10% to shild recharger or shild hp." ThatÆs a disadvantage compared to shields. Amour tankers get to fit a module to boost cap with no penalty or bonus to tanking. Shield tankers get to fit a module that boosts shields HP regen and cap regen along with total hitpoints. ThatÆs an advantage to shield tankers not amour tankers. "But shield tanking can't be set too easymode ( as in letting everything run permanently ) shield tanking takes more micro management." Shield tanking can be set to easy mode. With no micro management and no cap problems. In fact itÆs more auto and easier then amour tanking as you donÆt even have to turn modules on and off for some shield tanking methods and it can for sure run permanently. Active shield tanking can't.... another advantage of shield tanking is due to natural recharge you can get passive shield tanking setups that require no cap ( or in hybrid form very little ) and are perfect for laggy conditions where activating any module is gonna be a issue. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Zolofine	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:27:00 - [227] Hmmm lets see... -Crystal set improves the potency of your hp boost -Slave set simply gives you more hitpoints +1 for shield -Shield can be upped in resistance using both med and low slots -Armor cannot be upped in resistance using meds +1 for shield - Shield booster can be upped yet more in efficienty by using amps - Armor repairs the same always and you need 2 = 4k pg minimum +1 for shield - Shields can be raised over 80% resistances with no real problems (dedicated tank) - Armor over 80% across the board means 1 rep means death +1 for shield - Shield tanks can fill lows with PDU/dam control combos and have insane res and LOADS of cap - Armor tanks cannot fit any cap enhancing stuff because lows are needed for res mods... unless you want to fit 3 LAR for which you have no cap. Forget cap rechargers please, they suck. Batteries are not an option because you have no pg to fit them. +1 for shield - Shields regen and the regen can be increased (to great effect actually) - Armor does not regen... ever +1 for shield - Shield extenders increase recharge/second and with enough of them you don't even need a booster plus you have loads of shield - Armor plates don't do didly but increase total armor and they require lots of pg which you need for LAR and guns since armor tanks rely on dps to survive long enough to kill and dps means big guns. +1 for shield - Shield tanks can tank purely on cap total and passive recharge - Armor tanks need cap injectors which require lots of pg and are dependant on charges which fill up your hold +1 for shields Arguments: - Cap relays! I don't know many sane armor tankers that use these, furthermore there is no room to fit them. - Armor tanking uses less cap! No actually if you want to get the same amount of hitpoints repaired you need the same amount of cap + 4k pg minimum plus 2 slots instead of one and it still won't cut it because no regen. - Armor tanking has more slots availeble Not really, good shield tankers have a minimum of 5 slots availeble. Armor tankers have 7-8 of which 2 are used for reps and atleast one for a dam mod otherwise you won't kill anything cause close range guns = teh sucks without dam mods. Finally, shield tanks can (thx to dam controls) now also use lows to tank \o/ I'm nto sure if 'balance' factors into it. Shield tanking > Armor tanking in pretty much any situation and missiles still do enough damage to give an armortanker a chance. Armor tankers can become really great damage dealers and stuff once you hit the 10-15 mil gunnery sp... Caldari ships already become pwn mobiles with 7 mil sp total. Balance is so far off it's nto even funny, but that's ok because i'm starting my caldari skilltree in about 2 weeks ^^
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:28:00 - [228] Originally by: 000Hunter000 I fly Caldari ships so i shieldtank, when i fly Gall ships i armortank, when i fly Amarr ships i armortank, when i fly Mini ships i must be drunk... Yep, another candidate to go into my bio -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! Stop whining about my signature - Wrangler \o/ ~kieron [\"] -Capsicum <3 -eris you wanted colours now you have them :) -eris..again Donuts and cAKe anyone? Jacques' Nikolai can post twice as fast as me, and i'm uber -zhuge liang Uhm, I'm new to this, does this work? clickety Oveur
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:30:00 - [229] Originally by: Zolofine - Shield booster can be upped yet more in efficienty by using amps - Armor repairs the same always and you need 2 = 4k pg minimum fyi, a booster needs an amp to be on par with 2 reps :) Originally by: Zzazzt Originally by: thoth foc PA doesnt stand for anything.. Punchbag Alliance...
Raynaar	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:37:00 - [230] Originally by: Cerberal As a minmatar, i alternate between the two (given my race and its "Hybrid" ships, im able to do both comfortably). I like shield tanking when im ratting, as i dont really need the mid slots on my tempest for any utilities (i call my mid slots utility slots...as thats where all my tools go, such as webber and scrambler). As for PVP, i armor tank. Reason being i NEED those utility slots for Cap booster/Scram/Tracking dis, etc. In pvp i value my midslots as it seems he with the most tools at his disposal (not the most tank) usually ends up the better. This may not be true in everyones case...but it has proven true in mine. Besides, it may just be me...but using 2 tech two reps alternately (turning one on, then the other 6-7 seconds later) really makes my armor shoot up fast. And with my naturally high EM/Therm resists, i can concentrate on getting my KE and Exp damage resists up, and still have 2 slots for Damage mods (and since 3 mods is the limit nowadays...im not so bad off). So yes, it really depends on the ship/race i believe, ive still never seen a raven armor tank besides my corp CEO. I've got an alt on a 2nd acct in a Raven that I sometimes use alongside my main for ratting big npc's, and that Raven is set up to armor tank. It's a viable pve setup, especially if you're trying to fight with 2 ships at once, since armor tanking doesn't require the 'babysitting' that shield tanking does (you know, turn the reps on and just leave em on). I don't know about pvp'ing w/ the thing, but that ship'll fit a lotta cap rechargers lol. -Ray
Zolofine	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:41:00 - [231] Edited by: Zolofine on 27/02/2006 12:43:08 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Zolofine - Shield booster can be upped yet more in efficienty by using amps - Armor repairs the same always and you need 2 = 4k pg minimum fyi, a booster needs an amp to be on par with 2 reps :) Hmmm 400 every 5 seconds VS 1200 every 15 seconds I don't see your point? The only downside to that shieldbooster is it's cap use.. But the compensation skill lowers it a lot not to mention there are lots of ways to increase the boost including amp, implants you name it ;-) Edited for saying stupid things...
Pottsey	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:43:00 - [232] "Active shield tanking can't.... Sure it can. Just use gang assist to lower needed cap by 15% then use shield Compensation to lower cap another 10% with passive hardners to free up more cap. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:53:00 - [233] Edited by: Sarmaul on 27/02/2006 12:54:09 Originally by: Zolofine Edited by: Zolofine on 27/02/2006 12:43:08 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Zolofine - Shield booster can be upped yet more in efficienty by using amps - Armor repairs the same always and you need 2 = 4k pg minimum fyi, a booster needs an amp to be on par with 2 reps :) Hmmm 400 every 5 seconds VS 1200 every 15 seconds I don't see your point? The only downside to that shieldbooster is it's cap use.. But the compensation skill lowers it a lot not to mention there are lots of ways to increase the boost including amp, implants you name it ;-) Edited for saying stupid things... I am getting tired of posting this: Large Armour Rep II HP: 800 Cap: 400 Time: 11.25 (skills) HP/Second: 71.11 recurring Cap/Second: 35.55 recurring HP/Cap: 2 Large Armour Rep II x 2 HP: 1600 Cap: 800 Time: 11.25 (skills) HP/Second: 142.22 recurring Cap/Second: 71.11 recurring HP/Cap: 2 X-Large Shield Booster II HP: 600 Cap: 360 (skills) Time: 5 HP/Second: 120 Cap/Second: 72 HP/Cap: 1.66 recurring X-Large Shield Booster II & Shield Boost Amp HP: 780 (boost amp) Cap: 360 (skills) Time: 5 HP/Second: 156 Cap/Second: 72 HP/Cap: 2.16 recurring
Iberi	Posted - 2006.02.27 13:01:00 - [234] Originally by: Zolofine Hmmm lets see... -Crystal set improves the potency of your hp boost -Slave set simply gives you more hitpoints Surprise-surprise! Most PvPers do not use implants. Quote: -Shield can be upped in resistance using both med and low slots -Armor cannot be upped in resistance using meds Damage controls? Show me PvP setup with damage controls. Quote: - Shield booster can be upped yet more in efficienty by using amps - Armor repairs the same always and you need 2 = 4k pg minimum Armour tanks has 50-100% PG more. Any questions? Quote: - Shields can be raised over 80% resistances with no real problems (dedicated tank) - Armor over 80% across the board means 1 rep means death Armour has 20% more(5% per type) resistance. Quote: - Shield tanks can fill lows with PDU/dam control combos and have insane res and LOADS of cap - Armor tanks cannot fit any cap enhancing stuff because lows are needed for res mods... unless you want to fit 3 LAR for which you have no cap. Forget cap rechargers please, they suck. Batteries are not an option because you have no pg to fit them. Armour tanks could fit med slot with cap recharge t2 having insane cap level and sustained tank. Shield tank cannot be sustained usually. Quote: - Shields regen and the regen can be increased (to great effect actually) - Armor does not regen... ever Except the Ferox case it has no real value in PvP. Who cares about 20-50 PEAK restoration in sec, when Dominix give you 300+. Quote: - Shield extenders increase recharge/second and with enough of them you don't even need a booster plus you have loads of shield - Armor plates don't do didly but increase total armor and they require lots of pg which you need for LAR and guns since armor tanks rely on dps to survive long enough to kill and dps means big guns. Shield extenders are WEAKER a lots. And added regen has some sense only in the case of PvE Ferox setup. Quote: - Shield tanks can tank purely on cap total and passive recharge - Armor tanks need cap injectors which require lots of pg and are dependant on charges which fill up your hold FALSE. For what hell armour tank should use cap injector? Cap recharger will be enough. Quote: - Armor tanking uses less cap! TRUE. And armour tanks usually have more spare cap. Quote: No actually if you want to get the same amount of hitpoints repaired you need the same amount of cap Read the statement above. And answer on the statement. Quote: + 4k pg minimum plus 2 slots instead of one and it still won't cut it because no regen. Apoc has 2 time more PG than Raven. Any questions? Raven always use 2 slots to boost shield. Any questions? Quote: - Armor tanking has more slots availeble Not really, good shield tankers have a minimum of 5 slots availeble. Armor tankers have 7-8 of which 2 are used for reps and atleast one for a dam mod otherwise you won't kill anything cause close range guns = teh sucks without dam mods. Finally, shield tanks can (thx to dam controls) now also use lows to tank \o/ FALSE. Specially for you. Read and remember. EWAR
Mark A	Posted - 2006.02.27 13:01:00 - [235] If you want a pure tank and can take your pick of ships then shield tanking will always win as it is inherently more efficient both in terms of HP/sec and HP/cap. However you'll hardly ever see a (sensible) PvP shield tank setup as midslots are better spent on other things and you'll need an armor rep anyway to fix up after a fight. For instance on a tempest with fairly even slot distribution you're always going to armor tank in PvP, but if you wanted a pure tanking setup then go for shields, e.g. heavy nos's, XL booster II, 3 hardeners, shield amp (or another hardener), 6x PDS IIs. Similarly on a raven you'll probably shield tank for NPCs but armor tank for PvP. But in general you'll fit whatever's appropriate for the ship type and what you want to do with it. ________ Sleep is for the weak. And the sleepy. ________ There is no lag in...BOARDING SHIP...
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.02.27 13:02:00 - [236] Originally by: Mark A If you want a pure tank and can take your pick of ships then shield tanking will always win as it is inherently more efficient both in terms of HP/sec and HP/cap. However you'll hardly ever see a (sensible) PvP shield tank setup as midslots are better spent on other things and you'll need an armor rep anyway to fix up after a fight. For instance on a tempest with fairly even slot distribution you're always going to armor tank in PvP, but if you wanted a pure tanking setup then go for shields, e.g. heavy nos's, XL booster II, 3 hardeners, shield amp (or another hardener), 6x PDS IIs. Similarly on a raven you'll probably shield tank for NPCs but armor tank for PvP. But in general you'll fit whatever's appropriate for the ship type and what you want to do with it. actually for a tempest I would go 2 reps, 3 hardeners, energised adaptive and cap rechargers - far more sustainable than using pdu IIs (much better cap recharge rate)
Gerbil Intaki	Posted - 2006.02.27 13:17:00 - [237] "Real" players Structure Tank...
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.02.27 14:05:00 - [238] Originally by: Gerbil Intaki "Real" players Structure Tank... REAL players don't tank at all! They just mount a full set of nanos, a microwarpdrive, and a bunch of damned big guns, and charge towards the enemy gang screaming "LEEEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY!!!!! JEEEEENKIIINS!!!" so loud that the enemy hears it without Teamspeak. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! Stop whining about my signature - Wrangler \o/ ~kieron [\"] -Capsicum <3 -eris you wanted colours now you have them :) -eris..again Donuts and cAKe anyone? Jacques' Nikolai can post twice as fast as me, and i'm uber -zhuge liang Uhm, I'm new to this, does this work? clickety Oveur
Lemoning Lemming	Posted - 2006.02.27 14:35:00 - [239] The only WOW mod that was truely class was the Leeroy mod. Where you could hear it been yelled by other players who had the same mod. Very useful for giving feedback when group mates screw up. On topic though this is a good thread to browse for those of us who are less experienced in tanking.
Zolofine	Posted - 2006.02.27 14:56:00 - [240] Saurmaul... You forgot to mention that nobody actually uses T2 armor reps because they are to difficult to fit on pg/cpu. While i'm not sure on minmatar ships i'm guissing it's the same issue although perhaps they get a break due to low fitting req of AC?! Gallente ships can't fit em without dropping guns which makes no sense whatsoever. Originally by: Iberi -Surprise-surprise! Most PvPers do not use implants. -Damage controls? Show me PvP setup with damage controls. -Armour tanks has 50-100% PG more. Any questions? -Armour has 20% more(5% per type) resistance. -Armour tanks could fit med slot with cap recharge t2 having insane cap level and sustained tank. Shield tank cannot be sustained usually. -Except the Ferox case it has no real value in PvP. Who cares about 20-50 PEAK restoration in sec, when Dominix give you 300+. -Shield extenders are WEAKER a lots. And added regen has some sense only in the case of PvE Ferox setup. -FALSE. For what hell armour tank should use cap injector? Cap recharger will be enough. -TRUE. And armour tanks usually have more spare cap. -Apoc has 2 time more PG than Raven. Any questions? Raven always use 2 slots to boost shield. Any questions? - surprise surprise, obviously some PVP'ers have unlimited money - Howmany do you want? You unfit one BC from your raven fit in internal force field and put your res above 70% without using a med.. easy enough to understand no? - Having more pg is moot. You need the pg intensive reps and the guns also require lots of pg to fit unlike launchers, unlike shield boosters. While you can easily fit a full tank alongside your tech II launchers you simply can't do that without upgrade mods in the lows on an armor tank. Of all armor tanks, apoc is probably the only one who doesn't have pg problems. - So what if armor has more base res... with enough modules shield is still higher and the fast repairing and regen make it so you don't even need super high res. - Cap II's?! You're kidding right? There is no way to sustain an armor tank and still have cap to fire with 3-4 cap recharger II's, especially when you need to mwd all over the place. Unless you are talkign abotu snipers... if you are please realize that snipers don't have tanks. Kthx! - So regen has no real value in PVP... right. Are you sure you actually play this game since rmr?! I can get 50 hp/s easily on a shield tank without using relays. That's an extra 250 shield ontop of your booster if you have totally no skills. What's an extra 250hp right?!? ^^ - Shield extenders give less hp increase, true enough, but they also increase your recharge. Seriously i wish you had a point

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