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CCP continues to ignore the plight of missile ships, such as the pheonix in pvp.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3525	Posted - 2013.12.02 15:56:00 - [61] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: And what do you while they reload? Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back? Reload times, really? Less than Arty, the same as Shield ASBs. You going to tell me both of those are inconsequential as well? You don't even need to reload when using them against small ships, they will be dead before you need to. He, like the OP, seems to still live in the fantasy land that equates missiles with massively low DPS weapons. I guess DPS has changed its meaning too Derps per Second?
Ramona McCandless Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1204	Posted - 2013.12.02 16:01:00 - [62] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Derps per Second? LOL then GD has a DPS of.... well its a big number that has a 9 in it (or more) High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3525	Posted - 2013.12.02 16:02:00 - [63] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. LOL...missiles gained ground with the addition of RHML....LOL. Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential. And what do you while they reload? Drones (like on an armageddon + neuts). or Drones plus guns (like on a typhoon fleet issue with those nice 2 left over high slots after you mount those 6 small RHMLs). In game that demands creativity, there is a lot of uncreativness going around.
Stitcher Alexylva Paradox 2517	Posted - 2013.12.02 16:04:00 - [64] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential. And what do you while they reload? Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back? The objective is that by the time you have to reload, everything should be dead. If this is not the case, then you done frakked up. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 224	Posted - 2013.12.02 16:07:00 - [65] - Quote March rabbit wrote: i don't fly missile and laser ships. And i don't fly minmatar ships too. I just like gallente ships. Does it make gallente ships OP and other races underpowered? Correct me if I'm wrong but it use to be hardly anyone would fly Gallente into a PVP situation. The situation use to be flipped around. Shield kiting was the way to go. Now armor brawlers are in favor.
Majindoom Shi Nightmare Logistics 15	Posted - 2013.12.02 16:54:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. Biggest under statements of the year. They have practically dropped off the map. And they are preforming well compared to what? There is practically no situation where a MISSILES is preferred over guns. From incursions to pvp to complex running. Being usable is not the same as performing well. Also you make it sound like it's only one alliance that's not using missiles but it's not. Most if not all doctrine are gun or drone boats. Aside from a structure bash missiles are useless; and this is coming from someone who used to be diehard caldari. Ever since I trained projectiles and hybrids I have not looked at a missile ship. Want to get into the best incursions fleets? Well you will be laughed at if you try to bring anything but guns. Ratting? Vindi or Mach out preform anything missile based. I would really love to see where you are pulling your information from. Because anything we players have access to; you know like playing the game indicates other wise. And eve kill certainly doesn't confirm any of your statements.
Deacon Abox Justified Chaos 238	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:12:00 - [67] - Quote The OP is Caldari whine 9000. And he is a just bad eve player. Whiney child, "my toy isn't as good as Jimmy's whaaaaaa." Meanwhile Tengus with heavy missiles topped last month on Eve-kill. Sorry that I'm bumping this thread. But I can't let a baseless whine like this pass without flaming it's creator.
ErrorRon Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy 63	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:17:00 - [68] - Quote I didn't think killmails were allowed to be linked on this forum. Nevertheless Phoenix is probably the best of the 4 dreads for killing capitals and structures. So i have no idea what you're talking about.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 2283	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:23:00 - [69] - Quote Give the Phoenix a role bonus that removes the speed penalty from the siege mode and it'll gain a significant advantage over other Dreads. Heh. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Trainwreck McGee Aliastra Gallente Federation 246	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:27:00 - [70] - Quote Caldari fan boi rage best rage. CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 613	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:27:00 - [71] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: Give the Phoenix a role bonus that removes the speed penalty from the siege mode and it'll gain a significant advantage over other Dreads. Heh. It'll still be speed tanked by Ttians.
Trixie Rocks PVE Corporation 0	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:30:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. The biggest problem with Missiles is the RISK involved with skilling them and their Support skills. When you invest in a weapon and then that weapon becomes NERFed so badly (By YOU) as you did the RLML, then the support skills are worthless for that investment for that character, and more so if that character was specialized. Fix the Support skills and make ALL weapons use the SAME support skills and you will have made a HUGE improvement to this game. This is why Missiles are so Risky to train for. all TURRET weapons use similar support skills, making missiles the odd duck.
Tul Breetai Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud. 409	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:39:00 - [73] - Quote Chi Garu wrote: OP posts a thread about missile weapons, rabble reads it as a buff caldari thread, go figure. "Caldari are being ignored by the devs, they have been for years. It is pitiful." - post 5 He has skillfully edited the op. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 730	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:47:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. Fix the damn broken stuff, before starting to design new ships and pretend that a ship so broken that nobody uses it, can wait. Please. :p G££ <= Me
DHB WildCat Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:53:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. Kil2 I love you and I think we are still in game friends, but you are NO MISSILE expert. Geddons / Tempests and Ferox's do not a missile expert make. I think I and my Burn Eden brothers have a little pull when it comes to missiles. Ill let you know some player insight about them that I hope you'll take into consideration in upcoming patches. 1) Selectable damage type is the ONLY saving grace for todays missile user. You at CCP refuse to change the dame kinetic bonus to an universal one so we are forced to use kinetic if we want high damage..... however...... 2) Gallente FOTM. T2 gallente have near 90% kinetic resists base.... freaking stupid. Missile boats now have to change damage type to either EM or Exp to do any sort of damage to them...... but wait...... 3) RLML and RHML .... okay deimos on field switching to em damage.... 40 seconds later, you're either dead or ran away, cause you CANT change ammo types to be effective in 40 seconds. Or you can continue to shoot kinetic at the diemos as it laughs at you until you die. 4) CNR has more applicable damage to frigs and cruisers with cruise missiles than with RHML. This is stupid. Yes the ROF is faster on the RHML but how the heck is a BS sized weapon doing more per hit on a frig than a cruiser sized weapon!? WTF. I have a lot of other examples and references, I could go on for days. I just wish you guys would start taking some more outside input again. Your view on certain things are way to narrowed and focused to be able to see everything. WildCat
March rabbit True Horde 894	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:57:00 - [76] - Quote Caviar Liberta wrote: March rabbit wrote: i don't fly missile and laser ships. And i don't fly minmatar ships too. I just like gallente ships. Does it make gallente ships OP and other races underpowered? Correct me if I'm wrong but it use to be hardly anyone would fly Gallente into a PVP situation. The situation use to be flipped around. Shield kiting was the way to go. Now armor brawlers are in favor. not really: if you get caught by kiter in your brawler in most cases you will die without any hope. yes, gallente and hybrids became good choice in PvP but i still see lots of ships of other races in low-sec around. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

CCP Dolan C C P C C P Alliance 746	Posted - 2013.12.02 18:01:00 - [77] - Quote Cleaned out some killmail links. 34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel. Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel. CCP Dolan \| Community Representative Twitter: @CCPDolan Gooby pls

Alice Ituin Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2013.12.02 18:04:00 - [78] - Quote I still curse the day when I was a little noob and thought "hey, missiles look cool and can't miss"... -.- So many wasted skillpoints.
Lifelongnoob The Motley Crew Reborn 22	Posted - 2013.12.02 18:34:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. make the phoenix a hybrid dread rather than missile dread
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 147	Posted - 2013.12.02 19:09:00 - [80] - Quote DHB WildCat wrote: 4) CNR has more applicable damage to frigs and cruisers with cruise missiles than with RHML. This is stupid. Well if that's the case CCP 40sec and CCP HM Destroyer can't help but conclude that CM's must be OP and they will happily do everything in their power to make it balanced. Expect heavy nerf coming with Rubicon 1.1
Isbariya Thundercats The Initiative. 54	Posted - 2013.12.02 19:32:00 - [81] - Quote Lifelongnoob wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. make the phoenix a hybrid dread rather than missile dread That would actually help a lot even if it would be unbonused, just let it have 3 turret hardpoints and we're happy for the foreseeable future.
Davon Mandra'thin Rotten Legion Ops 223	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:05:00 - [82] - Quote Majindoom Shi wrote: There is practically no situation where a MISSILES is preferred over guns. From incursions to pvp to complex running. Incursions, agreed. PvP? Your an idiot. Missiles are frankly incredible in PvP. You do, of course, need to know how to use them. Majindoom Shi wrote: Being usable is not the same as performing well. Also you make it sound like it's only one alliance that's not using missiles but it's not. Most if not all doctrine are gun or drone boats. Aside from a structure bash missiles are useless; and this is coming from someone who used to be diehard caldari. Ever since I trained projectiles and hybrids I have not looked at a missile ship. Comparing alliance level PvP to PvP in general is daft. Your right about alliance level PvP though, missiles are useless at that. But when it comes to small gang, missiles are fantastic. Majindoom Shi wrote: Ratting? Vindi or Mach out preform anything missile based. Rattlesnake may do most of it's damage with drones, but it is still a missile boat, and it ruins the Mach and Vindi for mission running.
Remiel Pollard Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 2044	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:10:00 - [83] - Quote Plug in Baby wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: And what do you while they reload? Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back? Post KMs and typed 'rekt' in local? Y U NO HAVE MOAR LIEKS!!!????!!1111!!!ELEBENTY!!?? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Neni Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 0	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:11:00 - [84] - Quote Isbariya wrote: Lifelongnoob wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. make the phoenix a hybrid dread rather than missile dread That would actually help a lot even if it would be unbonused, just let it have 3 turret hardpoints and we're happy for the foreseeable future. why just not remove the entire missile range and go for guns, just reballence the heck out of everything and tbh create 1 single race, have no destinctions no advantages and disadventages of races anymore. imo phoenix has a great alpha dmg but that is about it, it has the lowest dps of the dreads even with faction launchers and also the flight time of the missiles well your target is dead before u even applied a single drop of dmg to it. The thing i do not understand is that a bullet has a normal flight time to irl why is it insta dmg in eve ? Why not make missiles do insta dmg to or get rid of the insta dmg of guns, have the bullets that they fire a time to reach the target or would this cause for to much drama.
Davon Mandra'thin Rotten Legion Ops 223	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:12:00 - [85] - Quote DHB WildCat wrote: 1) Selectable damage type is the ONLY saving grace for todays missile user. You at CCP refuse to change the dame kinetic bonus to an universal one so we are forced to use kinetic if we want high damage..... however...... Now, your PvP skills are more or less legendary but I still have to disagree. There are loads of saving graces, like the fact that radial velocity does not effect them. If your kiting someone your own speed makes no difference to the damage, unlike turrets. Their range is effectively farther when your burning away from you enemy and they are burning to you (again, fantastic for kiting). They always hit (admittedly, they don't always do much), and their brawler versions (HAMs, rockets, torps) have larger rangest than the turrets which means you can kite at close ranges in brawlers whilst still doing your 'optimum' damage. Fit two webs on an armour boat and orbit at 9kms and that blaster boat will melt and do no damage. Using missiles is completely different to using turrets, but getting used to them gives you a massive advantage.
Remiel Pollard Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 2044	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:14:00 - [86] - Quote Stitcher wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential. And what do you while they reload? Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back? The objective is that by the time you have to reload, everything should be dead. If this is not the case, then you done frakked up. You can also stagger your launchers' firing times. Instead of grouping them all together, keep them ungrouped, or group them in smaller groups. Like four single launchers, or two x two (if you have four launchers paired together). Start firing one, then 30 seconds later, start firing the other. You might not be able to put your total dps on target all of the time, but if it's going to be a protracted engagement, you are at least still putting dps on target the whole duration of the fight. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Arduemonl School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:28:00 - [87] - Quote Buff missiles, and I will burn New Eden with them. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Arduemont Achieved almost entirely with missiles. Buff missiles, I dare you.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 614	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:30:00 - [88] - Quote Am I to have an impress?
Remiel Pollard Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 2045	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:33:00 - [89] - Quote Onictus wrote: Am I to have an impress? Not to be a ****.... but I'm going to assume English is not your first language and you are trying to say: "Am I supposed to be impressed?" You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Pirate Nation. 179	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:34:00 - [90] - Quote Well at one point my favorite belt ratter was the drake, cheap, able to tank and could kite far enough out that you had time to warp out and was able to mitigate damage through range, now with 41 km range, I just don't use it. My drakes are now used for popping out of station to check whats there, with tank and a ship scanner or the very limited use HAML drake when someone decides to sit on the undock, fools.... That is the only thing I use them for, HML drakes have no range and pitiful dps, in fact they are utterly useless! When they made the changes to the drake and HML's, I could accept a reduced DPS if they left the range alone, but the range nerf combined with damage nerf was too much and I said that on the thread. I also syopped using the Nighthawk for much the same reason... If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space,-áand those people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local,-álight a cyno and try jumping to it.-á-á There is a structural issue with Eve, based on accounts with no link, vast reserves of ISK-áand plex, which makes it too easy to metagame the destruction of small alliances.

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