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CCP continues to ignore the plight of missile ships, such as the pheonix in pvp.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Pirate Nation. 180	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:13:00 - [121] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. LOL...missiles gained ground with the addition of RHML....LOL. Tell us more about how being able to pump out 1000 DPS on a battleship with HEAVY MISSILES at 47kms is inconsequential. And what do you while they reload? Make a sandwich and hope your ship is still there when you come back? ^^ Thanks. The 40 second reload time on RLMLs and even the RHMLs is ridiculous. For burst or alpha damage there was arty. So a good idea was turned into a "gank weapon". I'm sure the blobs will love it. Small gangs and people trying to "scrub off" tacklers will find out the hard way who is off-grid boosted and they'll have 40 seconds of doing nothing while they watch. Way to kill a module. Hell yeah, when I read that when they announced it I decided not to bother with them, silly basically, oh look I have a interceptor on me, change to precisions, oh dear rest of fleet has arrived and I am still reloading, hah! If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space,-áand those people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local,-álight a cyno and try jumping to it.-á-á There is a structural issue with Eve, based on accounts with no link, vast reserves of ISK-áand plex, which makes it too easy to metagame the destruction of small alliances.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 2313	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:41:00 - [122] - Quote grr edit
Remiel Pollard Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 2051	Posted - 2013.12.03 01:02:00 - [123] - Quote Onictus wrote: You are still trying to defend battleclinic? Holy crap, do you own the domain or something? I'm not defending it. You haven't really given me a reason why I shouldn't use it... so yeah, nothing to defend yet. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 4935	Posted - 2013.12.03 01:02:00 - [124] - Quote If I'm not mistaken they've already stated they are going to work on a mechanic to allow fast ammo type changes. In other words I if I have a full load of missiles and I need to change ammo type I can do it much quicker than actually reloading... if I have 6 missiles left and need a different type I can swap out those 6 quickly but not actually get a full reload. That would seem to quell one of the largest complaints with the new system. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Zylithi Four Mouseketeers SQUEE. 24	Posted - 2013.12.03 01:08:00 - [125] - Quote Hey guys here's an idea! Instead of: A) missiles r too week fix pls lawl CCP halllppppp00 Or... B) lawl care bear noob don't fly faildari lolololol Try: Hey yeah here's a solution blah blah blah etc Here's my idea, increase missile dps slightly to balance lack of alpha, but make it possible for tracking disruptors to affect missiles, make it possible for them to miss/lose their target. And increase citadel damage significantly. You're sending a house sized explosive into a structure, make the damage scale.
Deacon Abox Justified Chaos 239	Posted - 2013.12.03 02:31:00 - [126] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting. Please figure out how to introduce missile TDs. And smartbombing missiles in a blob is an inelegant/imperfect bootstrapping of what is a more effective anti-drone mechanic anyway. The Phoenix whine is about the only thing valid in the op.
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 154	Posted - 2013.12.03 13:13:00 - [127] - Quote Deacon Abox wrote: Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting. Sensor dampeners are pretty effective, fit two of them and stop crying. You can use them as an anti-turret ewar too http://tinyurl.com/nlua4xs
Anya Klibor Error-404 Cup Of ConKrete. 546	Posted - 2013.12.03 13:30:00 - [128] - Quote I love my Ferox for PvP. And my Hawk. And my Blarpy. And my Worm (Worm counts 'cus it looks like a Merlin). And my Merlin. And my Kestrel. And my Gila (it looks like a Moa!). And my... You know what, f*** you, I <3 my Caldari.
Anomaly One 97	Posted - 2013.12.03 13:50:00 - [129] - Quote Alice Ituin wrote: I still curse the day when I was a little noob and thought "hey, missiles look cool and can't miss"... -.- So many wasted skillpoints. I feel your pain, actually I don't, I was gonna train missiles but then I read the threads, said **** it and switched to BALASTERZZZZZZZZ Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly.
Anomaly One 97	Posted - 2013.12.03 13:52:00 - [130] - Quote Deacon Abox wrote: Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting. I guess good damage is their ewar (oh snap) No really, why would there be? they're **** on their own, I would LOL if CCP introduced anti-missile ewar first before fixing missiles. Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly.
Tul Breetai Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud. 428	Posted - 2013.12.03 14:00:00 - [131] - Quote Onictus wrote: You are still trying to defend battleclinic? Holy crap, do you own the domain or something? I get bitter vet agro all the time for not using BC, it's still pretty popular and adequately useful. Zylithi wrote: make it possible for tracking disruptors to affect missiles, make it possible for them to miss/lose their target. No. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Jythier Smith WATERSHIP HOLDINGS Harmonic Convergence 209	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:42:00 - [132] - Quote So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one? I need to know so I can train them or not.
tiberiusric Comply Or Die 49	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:47:00 - [133] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. I dont understand why you keep adding more missile types just to 'fill a gap' You can be doing that forever, adding more and more, the problem is then, that as you have seen, other missiles stop being used, so you end up with the same problem. Just fix the problem with the ones we have instead of creating more. We have a ton of missile launchers and a ton of missile types and varying attributes, surely that was enough to get on with and tweak rather. I mean its crazy to be honest how many we do have. I just wish when you make changes that you look at the bigger picture rather than just a ship itself. On many occasions you make changes and it just makes a massive mess of things, and people actually end up not using them. You cant just look at it from a ship point of view
Davon Mandra'thin Rotten Legion Ops 229	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:51:00 - [134] - Quote Jythier Smith wrote: So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one? I need to know so I can train them or not. I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better.
Deacon Abox Justified Chaos 239	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:13:00 - [135] - Quote Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Deacon Abox wrote: Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting. Sensor dampeners are pretty effective, fit two of them and stop crying. You can use them as an anti-turret ewar too http://tinyurl.com/nlua4xs Not clicking on your link. But you don't read anyway. You even answered the stupidity of your reply in your post.
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 155	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:34:00 - [136] - Quote Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Jythier Smith wrote: So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one? I need to know so I can train them or not. I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better. Well, being so pro you can always share some of your HM fits and teach the ignorant newbies what to use for wannabe l33t solo / small gang pvp but somehow I doubt you will.
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 155	Posted - 2013.12.03 18:05:00 - [137] - Quote Deacon Abox wrote: Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Deacon Abox wrote: Don't listen to the whining about missiles generally. There is still no effective anti-missile ewar in a solo or small gang setting. Sensor dampeners are pretty effective, fit two of them and stop crying. You can use them as an anti-turret ewar too http://tinyurl.com/nlua4xs Not clicking on your link. But you don't read anyway. You even answered the stupidity of your reply in your post. What more do you want? Learn to use your sig and speed better and you'll be almost missile-proof
Davon Mandra'thin Rotten Legion Ops 232	Posted - 2013.12.03 18:57:00 - [138] - Quote Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Jythier Smith wrote: So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one? I need to know so I can train them or not. I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better. Well, being so pro you can always share some of your HM fits and teach the ignorant newbies what to use for wannabe l33t solo / small gang pvp but somehow I doubt you will. A few pages or so ago, I did. Your welcome.
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 155	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:13:00 - [139] - Quote Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Well, being so pro you can always share some of your HM fits and teach the ignorant newbies what to use for wannabe l33t solo / small gang pvp but somehow I doubt you will. A few pages or so ago, I did. Your welcome. Really, where? Oh, you mean this... Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Your an idiot. Missiles are frankly incredible in PvP. You do, of course, need to know how to use them. or perhaps this one? Davon Mandra'thin wrote: I believe the problem is that the people currently using them have no idea how they should be using and then come to the forums to whine that they should be better.
Bi-Mi Lansatha RillaCorp The Kadeshi 224	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:25:00 - [140] - Quote Jythier Smith wrote: So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one? I need to know so I can train them or not. My opinion. Missiles great for PvE, less so PvP. Missile will work and work well in PvP, but... Torpedoes on Bomber work well, on anything else... Heavy missiles on a Tengu, but on anything else... Light missiles on a Scythe Fleet Issue... I had lots of fun. Cruise Missiles and Heavy Assault don't seem popular. I hear rockets on a Hookbill in 1vs1 can be fun. I ran into a large group of Light Missile Talwar... they did well. If your primary goal is PvP, you might be better off concentrating on Gunnery first.
Alice Ituin Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2013.12.03 20:51:00 - [141] - Quote Jythier Smith wrote: So what's the actual problem with missiles? Is there one? I need to know so I can train them or not. It's not that there aren't any uses for missiles.... it's that those gunnery skills are waaay more usefull. (and the phoenix sucks) Those gunnery support skills work for 3 weapon systems and thus enable you to fly a much bigger variety of ships quicker. Also there are certain activities where no one will take a missile ship with them. (mostly large fleet battles and incursions due to the delayed damage application) Missiles are especially great for getting into PvE with low skills. I flew lvl 4 missions in a Raven with almost non existent SP after my first month. I doubt I would have managed to do that with a gun boat.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 1944	Posted - 2013.12.03 21:24:00 - [142] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. Thats not what we were using, its some of what we were facing, and we were facing most of the 0.0 alliances in game at the time. Missiles suck in general, their ability to apply damage is getting wrecked by the same thing that makes giving all the ships a 'mwd sig bloom reduction' bonus a viable thing, and the same thing that makes missiles even more useless against those ships. RLML's were fine before, so the fact that they still work is awesome, RLHM's suck, and don't function the same way RLML's work because of the fact that Heavy Missiles are actual garbage, we didn't need you to nerf them for us, Firewalling worked great and was a player driven solution to missiles, we had it, Heavies were viable in PVP but spammin them in fleets wasn't a thing that worked well because of Firewall, but you 'tweaked' them anyway. Completely out of existence in any serious manner. So when you look at his report what you should see is that you have so completely destroyed the Missile Weapons System in EVE that the only place it will be present at all is in the form of Crows, which again the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the balance team who thought 'breaking damps might be fun but lets ignore the serious build up of light missile use as that can't possibly be indicative of a problem in small gang PVP'. Stop balancing for the game you want EVE to be and start balancing the game that it is. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Rekon X Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 58	Posted - 2013.12.03 21:40:00 - [143] - Quote Guess we need a huge buff to the Ishtar also. There are none on the list.
Zloco Crendraven BALKAN EXPRESS 515	Posted - 2013.12.03 22:29:00 - [144] - Quote HAMs are awesome. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 157	Posted - 2013.12.03 23:01:00 - [145] - Quote Zloco Crendraven wrote: HAMs are awesome. If you're flying armor tanking ship with lots of utility mids, they certainly are. Just fit precision rigs, webs, TP and it must feel like there's nothing you can't do. You can even dare to shoot frigs LOL
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE. 40	Posted - 2013.12.03 23:47:00 - [146] - Quote Lifelongnoob wrote: make the phoenix a hybrid dread rather than missile dread Just because I want to be in the running for bad idea of the day, I say we should do this and then give it ecm bonuses and allow it to target caps and supercaps with ecm. I hate to disagree with you,-ábut there is nothing subjective about "boring" in connection to "mining". -á-á-á-á -- Solstice Project's Alt
Eli Green The Arrow Project 798	Posted - 2013.12.03 23:49:00 - [147] - Quote BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Lifelongnoob wrote: make the phoenix a hybrid dread rather than missile dread Just because I want to be in the running for bad idea of the day, I say we should do this and then give it ecm bonuses and allow it to target caps and supercaps with ecm. might as well let it use covops if you're gonna do that wumbo
Zvaarian the Red Evil Leprechaun Brigade 154	Posted - 2013.12.04 00:05:00 - [148] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. Is this a joke?
Remiel Pollard Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking 2056	Posted - 2013.12.04 01:04:00 - [149] - Quote Zloco Crendraven wrote: HAMs are awesome. I've noticed people think that.... but the same people usually fly Drakes and frequently die to my Ishkur, of which they don't even manage to penetrate the shields. On the other hand, they're still quite effective against a few of my battlecruisers.... I wonder why that is. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Mhari Dson Lazy Brothers Inc 90	Posted - 2013.12.04 06:49:00 - [150] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Using examples of what one alliance fields in a few select fights doesn't really show much. In general, metrics show that missiles have certainly come down in popularity some since HML changes but overall they are still performing well. The Phoenix is certainly not in a good place. We actually tried to do a pass on it a few patches back but couldn't get the tuning quite right so we decided to wait a little since there will be good opportunities to balance it alongside other changes that we have in mind. Missiles gained some ground recently with Cruise changes and the addition of RHML. We want to do a few more things over the next few patches that will also impact missile balance, if that helps your outlook. If it's going to be similar to RH/RLML I'm glad I trained T2 lasers, but I'm hopeful some sense will prevail this time. Some useful changes would be nice. Bringing the various missile systems in line with their turret counterparts would be very appreciated.

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