.. the usual crap about missiles ...

6) Torps even with a Vindi buddy webbing a hac you do jack all damage to it. Maybe we need to take a look at the size factor of ships and eliminating it as factor for missile damage, leaving speed and resistances the factors to missile damage.

... missiles are not turrets ...

... goes on and on ...

WildCat

Stop using a vindicator to hold a target down if you are using missiles. Use a Golem. Or a Huggin. If its smaller paint it bigger, if its fast, make it slow. Missiles != Guns.

Or lets make missiles miss a lot, or restrict their damage type to therm/kin, maybe EM/therm. Lets make optimal damage range 5k, and then fall off as range increases.

You want all the benefits of guns, then take the fking drawbacks you prick.

That's fine....
First the vindi is an example. I'll use a geddon then. The geddon can apply FULL damage to a tackled target. Any missile ship CANNOT. even if it's fully tackled unless using frigate sized weapons.

Second, I agree we fully need a ew that effects missiles. It is completely unbelievable that ccp hasn't implemented this yet.

Third bring it on. I don't care if missiles get changed to two damage types only. At least this way we can get a bonus to two damage types instead of being the ONLY WEAPON SYSTEM THAT GET A BONUS TO ONE........ ONE........ ONE FREAKING DAMAGE TYPE.

[quote=DHB WildCat]
You want all the benefits of guns, then take the fking drawbacks you prick.

Good - a reasoned response. Let them have 5k optimal. Lose 10% damage thereafter per 5k, always hit in optimal, but miss as range goes out. Make them EM/Kin only. Have mixes of EM/Kin for example to increase optimal/falloff etc.

Now, change gallente ewar to sensor damp and missile disruption. Disruption scripts change range and explosion radius.

What you get is another type of gun. It just fires things that take time to hit. Luckily, you will have to close to something reasonable, like every other weapon, to actually apply damage, so it will be nigh on instant.

Oooh! Ooooh!! I've got a novel idea!!!

If you're fighting an opponent that has 95% kinetic resists--- wait for it--- don't use freaking kinetic missiles!!

inorite, wild idea!!!

(must be whiney first-world-problems week on EveO forums)

..... [HERE IT COMES]

Why don't you just use an AB to "EWAR" the missiles? You don`t even need orbitting skill, fly in a straight like with AB speed increase and it will be enough to cancel some of the damage and unlike gunnery, there is fuckall a missile ship can do to counter your "skillfull" piloting like you could to to help your tracking. Missile are easy mode to attack with and defend against. No amount of piloting skill can help because just moving in any direction give the same effect as a super good orbit.

/me begins to say something about 40 second reloads .......... But instead I won't feed the obvious trolls.

That has changed now with mobile depots.... but its still a minimum 1 minute to change drones in most cases (ie the depot deployment time)

Aaaannnd there you have it. The counter to missiles is speed, EVERY ship can counter them. The counter to speed is a Web/Scram. Everyone in pvp uses them, except it appears, missile users. Too busy fitting tank, and cloaking devices.

So the skillful part is lost on you - hint - get a bloody web FFS - see what I wrote and READ IT. Huggin. PAINTS AND WEBS.

And the last thing we all know about missile boat pilots is .... they dont fly anything but solo. They want to engage with heavies at 70k for fear of being shot back at with their ubertanked ships. Heavies are fine, try artillery - range is 20k optimal. At 70k its a lucky 100 dps.

I FKING HATE MISSILE MOANERS. THE CRETINS OF THE GAME.

I want to discuss this more.

Are you saying that, lets take all variables out of here and get down to the most basic of maslow's hierarchy of needs here, a ship sitting still no matter the size can be hit by a turret of any size for FULL damage and thats okay? However a torp / cruise missile hitting a cruiser that is sitting at zero m/sec, or a HAM / HM hitting a destroyer / frig sized targets only does half or less of it FULL dps is okay?

Now lets get the target moving. Perfect transverse no matter the weapon "other than domis with sentries" will miss a smaller target. That is fair. However an 800 auto cannon tempest will wreck a cruiser with zero transverse no matter the speed..... but a cruise raven will still do crap dps to a cruiser even with a zero transverse factor. Not even.


*Now it would be silly of me to not put forward a possible solution.... I purpose the damage done by missiles are based solely on the resistances and speed of the target ships. Based on this...... "Typical detonation velocities in gases range from 1800 m/s to 3000 m/s. Typical velocities in solid explosives often range beyond 4000 m/s to 10300 m/s." So lets use the gas numbers for arguement sakes. anything over 3km/sec would take zero damage from missiles. Anything slower would take the percentage of damage based on the speed. So obviously a webbed target would take more damage than a non webbed one. A frig sitting at 0m/sec against a torp would evaporate. On this as well we need a mod like a tracking disruptor that can mess with the guidance system and slow the speed of the missile.


Whats your take on that?

You refuse to acknowledge the other side completely- with perfect transversal a smaller ship can avoid turret damage 100%, but missiles always hit no matter what the target does. Missiles also have much longer ranges than comparable turrets.

Btw while we're talking missiles : I want my tracking disruptor to mess with missile guidance.

There is no reason to put anymore SP in missiles unless you are 10%-5% away from maxing out sub capital everything in missiles. I'll stick with my rattlesnake, gather SP and get away from missiles all together.

You refuse to acknowledge the other side completely- with perfect transversal a smaller ship can avoid turret damage 100%, but missiles always hit no matter what the target does. Missiles also have much longer ranges than comparable turrets.

Even with all 5 in missiles you'll find that only rockets, light and cruise missiles are usable and that rest is garbage. Heavy assault missiles are good if you are willing to fly tankless in hero more.

1) Selectable damage type is the ONLY saving grace for todays missile user. however CCP refuse to change the damn kinetic bonus to an universal one so we are forced to use kinetic if we want high damage..... however......

Apparently kinetic damage bonuses make ships "more interesting".

I am aware, but what you mean is for PvE, pvp=LM rockets or go home. HAMS function but seem to rely on the strength of hulls defenses since missiles can't alpha they need to outlast which by its-self lowers the engagement profile.

IMO cruise missiles are very good for PvE atm (some say for PvP even - Phoon, but I wouldn't know). For SOE LP grind I'm using Scorpion with T2 precision rigs, no TP and having all V & +5 implants I can easily kill elite cruisers with Fury missiles!!! With faction or precision one's Angel cruisers are down in no time. You can even kill elite Dramiels in idk, 10 or so volleys (not what you would do but still)..

Do you have anything to compare it to though? I don't think you would look at missiles the same way if you used gunnery and applied 100% or close to it to cruisers and frigates. I don't have large gunnery but I get the package through flying sentry boats.

Here come the EFT warriors.
Your paper DPS is very different from actual applied DPS.