not really, missiles are "static" damage. Granted in battle the variables change (transverse, target resistance, sig - boosters, boosts, MWDs) but for the most can be closely calculated. pilot skill does come into account obviously, but much less than people make it out to be since most people are average pilots at best.

Your 440 DPS Drake there does a whooping 25dps attacking a frig orbiting at 400ms. The whole problem with heavy missiles is damage application, which is far from what you make it out to be.

Again there are many factors, yes, an orbiting frig would take alot less damage, but like any ship, you have some kind of counter or assist such as a TP, Web, or Scram. If you are going into combat improperly, then you do not deserve to do damage. There is a counter to everything in Eve.

Yes - missile users really dont get it. Its like they play WoW inside eve.

Lets compare, 3x gyro/ballistics - nothing else.
Vanilla Cane 720mm arty, EMP: 434 dps @ 15 + 22k

Vanilla Drake Heavy T2, scourge: 322 dps @ 63k

Vanilla Cane 425mm auto, EMP: 518 dps @ 1.5 + 12k

Vanilla Drake HAss T2, scourge: 444 dps @ 20.2k

Missile users want ALL the benefits, but none of the drawbacks. Try autos for crap range, or artillery for crap damage application. I fly a cane, I know to close and web and scram. I close to apply damage. Artillery, I have to maintain range, I cannot close to apply damage. Try tracking a frigate closein with artillery you fucktards.

In a drake - I fit web and painter and scram. I still get better range with assault, better applied damage ALL the time. You DONT NEED TO TRACK, flying a drake is like flying a tonka toy. Or grow some balls and close in, paint, web and scram the target. Thats how a drake applies damage.

And remember - eve is a game for sharing - get some friends who fly ships that complement the missile boat.

Yes - missile users really dont get it. Its like they play WoW inside eve.

Lets compare, 3x gyro/ballistics - nothing else.
Vanilla Cane 720mm arty, EMP: 434 dps @ 15 + 22k

Vanilla Drake Heavy T2, scourge: 322 dps @ 63k

Vanilla Cane 425mm auto, EMP: 518 dps @ 1.5 + 12k

Vanilla Drake HAss T2, scourge: 444 dps @ 20.2k

Missile users want ALL the benefits, but none of the drawbacks. Try autos for crap range, or artillery for crap damage application. I fly a cane, I know to close and web and scram. I close to apply damage. Artillery, I have to maintain range, I cannot close to apply damage. Try tracking a frigate closein with artillery you fucktards.

In a drake - I fit web and painter and scram. I still get better range with assault, better applied damage ALL the time. You DONT NEED TO TRACK, flying a drake is like flying a tonka toy. Or grow some balls and close in, paint, web and scram the target. Thats how a drake applies damage.

And remember - eve is a game for sharing - get some friends who fly ships that complement the missile boat.

So why do people say HMLs are broken? Im not being a smart ass. I am curious as to the argument.

Unless I am missing something: They apply good consistent (and selectable) DPS at huge ranges. Their damage is effected by target speed and explosion velocity, but the same goes for turrets (and in fact, turret damage is effected by target AND shooter speed and gun resolution). In the example the guy posted above - whatever the damage they do to a Maller at 0 at X speed, they do the same damage to that Maller at X speed out to 60k-ish, and vice-versa. Try that with any medium turret weapon system.

Again - Im not being a smart ass here - I just dont understand the gripe. It sounds as if the gripe is "I want HMLs to be what they were before." Before, they were broken.

Here come the EFT warriors.
Your paper DPS is very different from actual applied DPS.
If you had been paying any attention to the rest of the thread than you would have noticed that the main issue with heavy missiles is in fact the damage application.

Not to be a smart ass either, but if you have to ask these questions you have not read much into this thread.
Essentially the gripe is: That as you are stating perceived characteristics of missiles, these are created by hearsay and believable since you (clearly) don't use HM or missiles in general.
Read things over missiles suffer damage reduction against stationary targets, at larger ranges they do FAR less damage then turrets since they increase hit chance by kiting. Wth, just read things over it has all been said. (not trying to be short appreciate you trying to jump in, just read a bit).

Rab See's numbers are also made assuming the missile applies full damage, this rarely happens. That's absolute maximum you can get out of a naked cruiser.

You already go below 300 when just shooting a Maller that isn't moving, only because of it's signature radius. If God forbid, it starts moving as well, you will drop to 250 dps. A Maller with a signature radius of 130 and with it's base speed of 164m/s is by no standards a fast or particularly big cruiser.

The damage application is just so horribly bad, I don't think everyone here really understand.

[some numbers]

the hurricane does 0, 180.84 to 1202 dps @ 37km to 70km

like the drake the hurricane can chose it's damage type, and there consequences in range or dps to those choices

Yea I can't really see a decent Drake fit that requires a MWD, web, scram and TP, leaving a 2 slot tank.

FUK U.

Ive killed more in PVP than you ever will. LISTEN TO WHAT I SAY.

I love killing 700 dps Tengus that get it wrong. I hate it when they get it right. WTF is wrong with the missile moaners.

then you factor the turrets ability to miss or crit
Quake M becomes 0, 1519.02 dps
Tremor M becomes 0, 868.02 dps

My numbers assume the missile is doing full damage and the guns too. Neither do. Did you know guns can miss a target doing 10m/s.

Can you not see? Those missiles do damage at 4k like autocannons and at the range of artillery in optimal. And WAY beyond. Fix them and take the crap that is 4k optimal. Fix them and take the crap of missed shots - ZERO damage. A frig orbitting a drake firing heavies gets hit by those, and precision missiles hit better. Artillery will miss every time, as will autocannons.

So you have learned a maller is smaller than the missile sig? PAINT IT FOR **** SAKE. If he has a prop mod, then web/scram it.

With my guns, I will web and scram it, and tracking to assist. Gets the same effect.

Nope - show me a cane that isnt a glass cannon and has all of the above.

2 slot tank . Invuln and Ancillary - VOILA. Hell - its what I use!


I also come with friends. Get some, they can paint, or web or scram.

Please, learn math and the turret hit formula before trying to assess turret damage. This is pathetic. You just showed here how clueless you are.

Please, learn math and the turret hit formula before trying to assess turret damage. This is pathetic. You just showed here how clueless you are.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, to be good, missiles should :
- perfectly hit a interceptor going full speed, or at least do reasonable damage, like 200dps, and without tackle ;
- still hit farther than any LR turret can ;
- have the same dps than SR turrets with short range ammo ;
- don't be limited to any damage type, or it's unfair.

Have I missed something ?

Post with your main - lets see who you are.

http://tinyurl.com/3wwn5nl


Wow, could you tell us more..?

I do believe he is showing the mirror image that is cherry picked math. (As clearly stated in his post). If you've come to bash this thread as well just leave. Please can we have one thread on this topic without spin?

no it's perfectly good math

statistically a turret is equally capable of always missing or hitting with a critical hit
a critical hit is 3x damage
a miss is 0 damage

therefore the possible total range of damage lies between those two extremes

I am not stating that is the damage that is done
I am stating that is the possible range of damage that can be done

of course whenever the turret vs missile debate comes in, turret users ALWAYS want the critical hit values discounted, because it skews their precious misrepresented figures.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, to be good, missiles should :
- perfectly hit a interceptor going full speed, or at least do reasonable damage, like 200dps, and without tackle

Oh come on, please. Maxed RLML frig-killer Cerberus with Scourge Precision will do 280dps before drones (out of 544 total). No HAM or HM ship can dream of anything even close to 200dps.