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Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.03 04:30:00 - [1] So I got killed by a dominix in my Tempest. I intend to get my revenge. He was using Berserker IIs. Which is nasty against a Tempest. I was using Dual 425mm T2 with Barrage T2 ammo. First of all his drones hits were harder than my hits once we both started hitting armor. Not even considering the faster ROF of the drones. Can a dominix field a set of drones, and still have a harder tank than a Tempest? Obviously he was highly skilled, but my skills run pretty high too. We both used T2 equipment. Should I have shot the drones? Should I try smartbombs? though I think they would kill my poor cap. my gun average was about 43 Drone average was about 65-70 These wrecks should be into armor: Your Dual 425mm AutoCannon II perfectly strikes Enemy, wrecking for 115.5 damage. Berserker II belonging to Enemy strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 204.7 damage. I have to be honest. IN a tempest with a dual gun bonus I would expect to have harder hits than a Berserker II. Tips/advice/ridicule? ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2006.03.03 04:44:00 - [2] Hardeners.
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.03 04:46:00 - [3] Edited by: jamesw on 03/03/2006 04:47:25 Its a tough one. Thats why i fly dominix :p You could try using ECM, to disable any nos or guns he has on you. I would not recommend smartbombs. Use medium drones on your ship, have them focus fire on his Berserkers one at a time. It should help to reduce his concentration on the fight if he is micromanaging drones in space. Other than that, good luck. I imagine that the domi is a very tough opponent (thats why I fly one :p ) Edit: Oh yeah.. posting your setup would help. -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
LUKKAT	Posted - 2006.03.03 04:53:00 - [4] how did he get close enough to scramble you? was it in a belt or at a gate? temp at long range = dead dom if he stays still that is dom at close range = dead tempest, but you can scramble him so he has to fight to the death.
franny	Posted - 2006.03.03 05:02:00 - [5] without knowing either setup exactly i'll assume he was using an armor tank, but was he using ewar?, nos? a typical nos-domi is set something like 3 or so hvy nos mwd, ewar(scram, ecm, etc) 3 hardener(usually 1exp, 1kin, 1therm hardener) armor tank if he was using a 'gank'domi he'd have something like 6 * dual 250s cap injector, ewar some lvl or armor tank (maybe someone with a better gank domi will post) also keep in mind, domi's drones are a ***** to kill figuring drone durability 4, BS4(which is not unrealistic for a drone spec'd domi pilot) 1.4 * 1.2 * (461 armor + 307 shields) (comes to 774.48 armor, 515.76 shields) + whatever structure they have(then times 5 drones and how many waves, domi can carry 3 waves of hvys or some split of everything) there are 2 ships I fear close range 1v1 in my domi, Torp ravens and other domi's it is one of the best pvp and pve BS's ingame, it's just looked down on for it's gimped grid(and it's ugly color) ----------- /wtb Eris in a cage Sorry, she's not for sale. You can get Imaran for free though - Wrangler can I at least get someone decent? Sure, I'll let you know when I find one - Wrangler
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.03 05:03:00 - [6] A dominix can fit a much better tank than a tempest. 7 lows + 5 mids vs 6 lows + 5 mids, combined for the tempest's need for damage mods. New vid: "we're back"
Kel Shek	Posted - 2006.03.03 05:06:00 - [7] Edited by: Kel Shek on 03/03/2006 05:07:06 well I fly a dominix, I don't PvP with it yet, just level 4 missions and mining... BUT my PvE set up that I currently use, has 4 active hardeners, (of course varying which ones for the enemy) and 2 large armor reps. I haven't worked it out real scientifically or anything, but at least from what I remember and "get the feeling of" when I have the NOS's going (2 or 3 heavy's) I can run 1 rep constantly, and the other probably every other, or maybe every third(er, something like that) were they using the NOS's? (probably stupid question... lol, since from the sound of it thats pretty much a given at the moment) those drones were probably pretty pumped up... heavy drones 5(required to use those) gives a +25% damage. minm drones 4(minimum to use those) would give an 8% damage bonus. plus the big one... would be Drone Interfacing. if level 4(at least going to be that if they are using those drones) thats 80%. if they are really invested could be 5 and be a 100% bonus... and I'm quite sure those all stack completely.... oh yeah, plus the dominix's bonus as well, I'd say in that sorta situation BS 4 would be a given, and 5 possible... and thats like 10% damage and HP bonus? (edit: per level) /me hugs his dominix ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.03 05:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 03/03/2006 05:17:27 Not sure if he was nossin or not. My cap did run out, but I was running 2 heavy repps. I had cap injector and 2 Nos, so he probably was nossin. He was not shooting any guns so he was doing something shadey. I did take 5 of my medium T2 drones and sic them on his T2 Berserker just to see what would happen. I think by the time the tempest was dead, they had the berserker into 1/2 armor. Just about where I had the Dominix I had 2 hardners on, a Gyro t2, 2 large named repairers and a named 1600 plate. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Ryysa	Posted - 2006.03.03 07:52:00 - [9] domi > tempest close range, get over it... The only way you're going to beat him is by fitting at least 2 smartbombs... and ECM... All about target jamming
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.03.03 07:57:00 - [10] Edited by: Chode Rizoum on 03/03/2006 07:57:24 hail ammo.. + 2 dual large tech II reps.. and you whould have won fyi : tempest can yield. 5 medium ECM drones
Exogene	Posted - 2006.03.03 09:38:00 - [11] Edited by: Exogene on 03/03/2006 09:39:45 I'd go for the drones first since that is the main strength of a dominix, use a web Start working on the ship itself after you kill all/most of his drones.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2006.03.03 09:46:00 - [12] 5 medium drones will take ages to kill the domi's drones, and even if u do manage to kill some, he will just launch more. Close range 1on1 there isnt much that will beat a well set up dominix with tech2 heavies My Latest Vid (16/02/06)
Sonreir	Posted - 2006.03.03 10:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Eyeshadow 5 medium drones will take ages to kill the domi's drones, and even if u do manage to kill some, he will just launch more. Close range 1on1 there isnt much that will beat a well set up dominix with tech2 heavies QFT If you want to beat a Dominix in a Tempest, then don't try to do it at close range.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.03 12:25:00 - [14] well I did that just for kicks. Not much else to do with the medium drones at the time. Hail ammo was too expensive so I had Barrage. But I do have some Hail this time. I will probably drop a repairer for another 1600 plate. If he is nossing no point in 2 reps since I will only ever get 1 to activate. If that dont kill him, Ill just start running from Dominixes ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.03 12:28:00 - [15] sit outside nos range and don't stop moving - with barrage this really isn't a problem. ______________________________________________ Hurrah I'm Unbanned \o/
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.03.03 12:37:00 - [16] Edited by: Gronsak on 03/03/2006 12:37:42 Originally by: Sarmaul sit outside nos range and don't stop moving - with barrage this really isn't a problem. yep that would work, set keep distance at 25km. shoot him from there, it is unlikely he will close the gap. if he sees that he cant nos and his tank is failing he will call his drones back at which point mwd to 15km and warp desrupt him and carry on. his drones are actually not too hard to kill with L AC. if u dual web them they will die very fast to your guns. but he will have more in stock. another thing u may wish to try is the new ECM bursts [well they are not new but where ment to be fixed], since ur gona be sub 10km it should be effective, should shut him down for half the time perhaps assumeing u have 2 on your temp [mwd, injecter, web, 20km, 2x bursts] -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
quellious	Posted - 2006.03.03 12:44:00 - [17] A few rules when engaging a dominix : - Kill drones first. Dominix weapon are his drones. You can reduce his firepower without killing the ships. (Note : He might have replacement drones in bay). - Check (using 'look at') whether dominix have weapons fitted or not. If you see no, or very few weapons, he will probably NOS/Neutralize you. Do not get below 30km from him in that case (it mean that you cant cramble him neither ...you just cannot kill a NOS dominix alone, unless you kill all his drones fast and have huge cap regen). - Expect him to tank a very long time (sometime 40.000 hp to do). You need check your capa all allong the fight. - Do never engage a dominix with a HAS, those are your best ennemies. c u - > Order Falcon & Pilgrim > Colsup
Zolofine	Posted - 2006.03.03 12:46:00 - [18] Gallente only have one bships that works so it owns for 2 :-P
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.03.03 13:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Zolofine Gallente only have one bships that works so it owns for 2 :-P The Megathron is still head and shoulders above the Typhoon.
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.03.03 13:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Sarmaul sit outside nos range and don't stop moving - with barrage this really isn't a problem. If you did that to me, I'd deploy a couple of heavy webbing drones, and drag you into range. I always fit E500 nos with a 24k range (heavy diminishing are just a little to expensive for my tastes), so orbiting me at 25k is asking to die once the webbing drones get to you. And anwyay, in this scenario, the best you can hope for is to force the Dominix to warp out. You're not going to kill me. ------------------ The ISS Navy is recruiting. See this thread for further details. www.eve-iss.com
ChalSto	Posted - 2006.03.03 13:23:00 - [21] what domi can do......mega can do also -> 6X Heavy-NOS, 2X Siege-Launchers webber, scrambler, AB, cap-recharger 3X Hardeners, 2X Large-accoms, 2X CPR 5X T2-Berserker funny as hell Dreez current location: In his Blasterthron chasing TomB with a blowtorch. ChalSto joins him.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.03 13:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Sarmaul sit outside nos range and don't stop moving - with barrage this really isn't a problem. If you did that to me, I'd deploy a couple of heavy webbing drones, and drag you into range. I always fit E500 nos with a 24k range (heavy diminishing are just a little to expensive for my tastes), so orbiting me at 25k is asking to die once the webbing drones get to you. And anwyay, in this scenario, the best you can hope for is to force the Dominix to warp out. You're not going to kill me. only shows how rediculus strong Dominix and Raven got, and how weak Tempest and Megathron
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.03.03 14:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Nafri only shows how rediculus strong Dominix and Raven got, and how weak Tempest and Megathron Not really, its quite easy to defeat a domi if you fit for it and use the right tactics. I'm not going to tell you how, because I fly one, but I have been beaten 1v1 before by a Megathron, a Tempest, and a Raven, and I will be again I'm quite sure. I would win most 1v1's in it, but people just need to plan for all 'eventualities' in combat and try new things. The domi isnt overpowered, your fitting and tactics are just at fault. ------------------ The ISS Navy is recruiting. See this thread for further details. www.eve-iss.com
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.03 15:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Nafri only shows how rediculus strong Dominix and Raven got, and how weak Tempest and Megathron Not really, its quite easy to defeat a domi if you fit for it and use the right tactics. I'm not going to tell you how, because I fly one, but I have been beaten 1v1 before by a Megathron, a Tempest, and a Raven, and I will be again I'm quite sure. I would win most 1v1's in it, but people just need to plan for all 'eventualities' in combat and try new things. The domi isnt overpowered, your fitting and tactics are just at fault. When people say the ship is good its not because it can beat another ship under a certain set of circumstances. They say its good because it can beat another ship under many various circumstances. I will eventually beat the dominix. Probably take 3 or 4 tries. And when I finally beat it, do I become equal to it? ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.03 15:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Nafri only shows how rediculus strong Dominix and Raven got, and how weak Tempest and Megathron Not really, its quite easy to defeat a domi if you fit for it and use the right tactics. I'm not going to tell you how, because I fly one, but I have been beaten 1v1 before by a Megathron, a Tempest, and a Raven, and I will be again I'm quite sure. I would win most 1v1's in it, but people just need to plan for all 'eventualities' in combat and try new things. The domi isnt overpowered, your fitting and tactics are just at fault. When people say the ship is good its not because it can beat another ship under a certain set of circumstances. They say its good because it can beat another ship under many various circumstances. I will eventually beat the dominix. Probably take 3 or 4 tries. And when I finally beat it, do I become equal to it? Yep, its about: Do you need to fit to kill them, or do thy need to fit to kill them? Dominix can be beaten, thats sure, but for that you cant run around in your 08/15 fitting you would fight the othet BS, but on the other side, for a dominix it doesnt matter what your fighting, as long as its within 30km of you, your settled, and you can be sure that your setup gives your an advantage, even though you havent specially fitted to fight your enemy. Dominix is just like Raven, a brainless solo pwnmachine latly
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.03.03 15:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Butter Dog Not really, its quite easy to defeat a domi if you fit for it and use the right tactics. You said it yourself. Everyone else has to fit specialized modules just to stand a chance. Domi has the luxury of not caring what it goes up against. The mixture of 250mm/Nosferatu/Multispec ECM and 5 T2 Ogres will pretty much take care of anything.
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.03 17:37:00 - [27] Please orbit my domi at 25km with your tempest. New vid: "we're back"
dabster	Posted - 2006.03.03 17:40:00 - [28] Ion Fields are your friends. Make bloody sure you note the pluralis though. :( ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.03 18:07:00 - [29] use a single racial ECM in one of your mids (or 2). that will give you a huge advantage, and if it goes ****-up, you can warp off in the time he is jammed sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Soros	Posted - 2006.03.03 18:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Sarmaul sit outside nos range and don't stop moving - with barrage this really isn't a problem. If you did that to me, I'd deploy a couple of heavy webbing drones, and drag you into range. I always fit E500 nos with a 24k range (heavy diminishing are just a little to expensive for my tastes), so orbiting me at 25k is asking to die once the webbing drones get to you. And anwyay, in this scenario, the best you can hope for is to force the Dominix to warp out. You're not going to kill me. All knowing all doing ISS pilots.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:04:00 - [31] It wasnt an overwhelming slaughter. But I don't think I stressed him much either. 1/2 armor is a joke. Tempest is tier two for cryin out loud. We always use this "Tier" thing to justify why the Typhoon should remain beneath the Tempest but damn \o/ Anyway, I like the range technique. But if I employ that, Im really getting no benefit from my 2 NOSes. But thats OK. Never know what else I may run into. Like his Megathron buddy that showed up on the scene once I was into hull... ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Imode	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:11:00 - [32] Some ships and setups are just better at close range than others. Not only does his NOS setup neutralize your tank, but it allows him to run his dual-rep full armor tank all at your expense. ____________________________ Band of Builders Inc. - Firmus Ixion
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:14:00 - [33] Edited by: Cummilla on 03/03/2006 20:16:17 Originally by: Imhotep Khem It wasnt an overwhelming slaughter. But I don't think I stressed him much either. 1/2 armor is a joke. Tempest is tier two for cryin out loud. We always use this "Tier" thing to justify why the Typhoon should remain beneath the Tempest but damn \o/ Anyway, I like the range technique. But if I employ that, Im really getting no benefit from my 2 NOSes. But thats OK. Never know what else I may run into. Like his Megathron buddy that showed up on the scene once I was into hull... I think you have to have faith and play to your strongest suite...no matter what. I think you're stregnth and my minnie pilot's strength is his gunnery skills which number close to 10 million sp now. What I would do is maximize my damage within reason. I would switch to one t2 large armor rep and drop the 1600 plate. replace with t2 gyros for total of 2 of those. Tactically keeping the range makes sense. And what about 650's versus 425s? You got him to half armor. A bit more damage and slight correction on tactics might make it at least an even chance that you'll come out against really the odds of what the status of "balance" between the two ships suggest the outcome would be. EDIT: I also wanted to mention that in this case I'd likely switch out my tracking comp2 and webber for 2 tech 2 multis. Or hell, if I knew it was gallente and a station was near, t2 racials. You only need one or two successful jams to be decisive!
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.03.03 21:12:00 - [34] how about dropping the nos, fitting 2 sb's and a large injector... Could you last long enough to tear up his drones then? The drones would last 2-3 smartbomb cycles... so at worst you'd have to be able to last 9 SB cycles to get all his drones, provided he had a full bay of damage dealing drones... I dunno, never tried it myself, but I'm hoping to learn... I am training minnie BS 5... Someone send me a glimmer of hope. Ison's notches
Zed Nash	Posted - 2006.03.03 21:29:00 - [35] A Domi's drone bay will hold multiple waves of drones. I laugh to myself whenever anyone targets/attacks my drones, because that means less damage on me, while my full damage is still on them. If I lose one, it's just a matter of launching more from my bay, and you'll be long gone before my drone bay runs out.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.03 21:38:00 - [36] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain how about dropping the nos, fitting 2 sb's and a large injector... Could you last long enough to tear up his drones then? The drones would last 2-3 smartbomb cycles... so at worst you'd have to be able to last 9 SB cycles to get all his drones, provided he had a full bay of damage dealing drones... I dunno, never tried it myself, but I'm hoping to learn... I am training minnie BS 5... Someone send me a glimmer of hope. the drones would survive about 10 smartbomb cycles, so we talk about at least 30-40 cycles from 2 smartbombs
Zoe Mygou	Posted - 2006.03.03 21:50:00 - [37] I have a question: would a typhoon fitted with 4 heavy nos and 4 cruise launchers, using 5 heavy t2 drones and armor tanking, be able to beat a dominix?
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.03 22:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Zoe Mygou I have a question: would a typhoon fitted with 4 heavy nos and 4 cruise launchers, using 5 heavy t2 drones and armor tanking, be able to beat a dominix? With maxed out skills for both pilots... No. Domi would still win. Infact, a Domi could have some ew in the mids as well to leave your already low on cap Typhoon useless for tanking.
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.03 22:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Cummilla Edited by: Cummilla on 03/03/2006 20:16:17 Originally by: Imhotep Khem It wasnt an overwhelming slaughter. But I don't think I stressed him much either. 1/2 armor is a joke. Tempest is tier two for cryin out loud. We always use this "Tier" thing to justify why the Typhoon should remain beneath the Tempest but damn \o/ Anyway, I like the range technique. But if I employ that, Im really getting no benefit from my 2 NOSes. But thats OK. Never know what else I may run into. Like his Megathron buddy that showed up on the scene once I was into hull... I think you have to have faith and play to your strongest suite...no matter what. I think you're stregnth and my minnie pilot's strength is his gunnery skills which number close to 10 million sp now. What I would do is maximize my damage within reason. I would switch to one t2 large armor rep and drop the 1600 plate. replace with t2 gyros for total of 2 of those. Tactically keeping the range makes sense. And what about 650's versus 425s? You got him to half armor. A bit more damage and slight correction on tactics might make it at least an even chance that you'll come out against really the odds of what the status of "balance" between the two ships suggest the outcome would be. EDIT: I also wanted to mention that in this case I'd likely switch out my tracking comp2 and webber for 2 tech 2 multis. Or hell, if I knew it was gallente and a station was near, t2 racials. You only need one or two successful jams to be decisive! A Nos domi with decent skills and tech II ogres will kill a Solo Tempest with 2 large reps and 500+ dps from guns. Look up the BOB killboard for the name Trepkos you will see what I mean. 2 large rep IIs, 2 energized adaptive IIs, 2 gyro stab IIs Thats 520 dps from dual 425s. The Domi will break that tank easily. if its setup the right way to NOS (even with cap injectors and 2 heavy nos on pest).
Bigben	Posted - 2006.03.03 22:20:00 - [40] it was only the other day that i was in a beltin a 0.4 system, a tempest came and killed me in my inty (webbed) scrambleddrones ect.. so anyway, i instantly docked in the station in the same system and fit the domi with 6 nos's 2 min racila jammers scrambler and sensor booster and webber. in the lows i had 2 large armer reps and 4 hardeners and 1 rcu. i had all heavy ogre drones. so i warped to the belt and there he was hovering over my can (still flagged) i instantly targetd and warp scrambled him. and set my drones on him with the nos. he began shooting back at me with t2800mms and as soon as he got into my armor i liturally tanked him for about 1.30 mins untill he got past half my armor. i then realised that i handnt yet attempted to target jam him and i did so and he couldnt hotme for the rest of the fight. and i was only using t1 ogres so when i switch to t2 there will be a big diffrence. Quote: null null
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.03 22:42:00 - [41] Dominix is the only BS in the game I feel needs to be brought down a notch or two. I think it should be 6 ( turrets ), 4 Mids, 8 lows and leave it alone. Spay its versatility, increase its tankability and it wouldn't be most versatile ship in the game bar none but still able to do the job. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Duke Karas	Posted - 2006.03.03 22:47:00 - [42] Originally by: Imhotep Khem It wasnt an overwhelming slaughter. But I don't think I stressed him much either. 1/2 armor is a joke. Tempest is tier two for cryin out loud. We always use this "Tier" thing to justify why the Typhoon should remain beneath the Tempest but damn \o/ Anyway, I like the range technique. But if I employ that, Im really getting no benefit from my 2 NOSes. But thats OK. Never know what else I may run into. Like his Megathron buddy that showed up on the scene once I was into hull... Don't shoot the drones. You were doing it right, mostly. Kill the Dominix. Break his Tank. Damage, Damage, Damage Even without 5 or 6 Gyros these days, you can break him. The key is your tank Go old-fashioned xlarge C5-L or T2 shield booster, 2 large cap injectors, and shield amp(s) 2 or even 3 T2 gyros, and the last 3 lows for PDUs, Tracking enhancers, or fitting help if needed depending on what is most important to you Stay with the T2 425, and the large nos in hi. Use T2 ammo. Pop your own heavy drones Kill 'im fast!! Drones won't matter after that Duke
Gudrodur	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:01:00 - [43] it was a gf M8. Thx. Originally by: Imhotep Khem So I got killed by a dominix in my Tempest. I intend to get my revenge. He was using Berserker IIs. Which is nasty against a Tempest. I was using Dual 425mm T2 with Barrage T2 ammo. First of all his drones hits were harder than my hits once we both started hitting armor. Not even considering the faster ROF of the drones. Can a dominix field a set of drones, and still have a harder tank than a Tempest? Obviously he was highly skilled, but my skills run pretty high too. We both used T2 equipment. Should I have shot the drones? Should I try smartbombs? though I think they would kill my poor cap. my gun average was about 43 Drone average was about 65-70 These wrecks should be into armor: Your Dual 425mm AutoCannon II perfectly strikes Enemy, wrecking for 115.5 damage. Berserker II belonging to Enemy strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 204.7 damage. I have to be honest. IN a tempest with a dual gun bonus I would expect to have harder hits than a Berserker II. Tips/advice/ridicule?
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:25:00 - [44] Originally by: Gudrodur it was a gf M8. Thx. Indeed. Trying to make it better for next time ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Danitar	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:27:00 - [45] Edited by: Danitar on 04/03/2006 00:28:03 IMO That thar tempasst aint right' know whut i mean..i got one and she dont do so well fittit wit them thar 425's on her, whoo hoo oh no thats bad .at least ya want is 650's sumtin wit a lil mure punch to em' dont use the 800's trackin to slow ..ya got her fittit all wrong lil feller put a tacking comp on her with 2 damage mods and load her wit some double ot' buch shot tech II stuff..plate her and harden her up a lil..you should fair a might better then ..now run along and go get that lil domi .
Zed Nash	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:55:00 - [46] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Dominix is the only BS in the game I feel needs to be brought down a notch or two. I think it should be 6 ( turrets ), 4 Mids, 8 lows and leave it alone. Spay its versatility, increase its tankability and it wouldn't be most versatile ship in the game bar none but still able to do the job. BS vs BS, close range, a Dominix is a beast. BS vs BS, long range, a Dominix is a target. Don't touch it.
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.03.04 03:45:00 - [47] Edited by: Lienzo on 04/03/2006 03:45:34 Going by quickfitter to compare the Typhoon and the Domi all with maxed skills and equipment.. you can get about 700dps averaged across base resists with the Domi and just two large turrets. Phoon can get 50-100 dps higher with a mostly capless setup. The trouble is that the Typhoon needs an MWD for the first part of the battle to close range while the Domi can get by with an AB and a more relaxed approach. This is just going to get worse when the drone augmenting modules are released. I'd like to check passive shield tanking, but it needs to be done on paper as quickfitter must be counting the pg reduction aspect backwards (adding instead of subtracting). Domi can tank, EW, scramble and ECCM all at the same time. Nothing outlasts it in short range combat. Drone ftw.. till they need to return to ship for ammo reloads. Or SB amplifiers are released.
Tadis	Posted - 2006.03.04 15:58:00 - [48] All that needs to be said, and has been is: Im a Dominix pilot, I fly it often :) Theres a reason its so popular with those who know how to utilise it, is because its so damn hard to beat. Its a fat bug, and a lot of gallente know how to use a fat bug to its optimal capacity :)
Demon Bringer	Posted - 2006.03.04 16:11:00 - [49] the domi doesnt require much skill to use effectively ECM requires very low skills to be effective and is overpowered as it is. Nos requires no skills to use well. Drones require low skills to use effectively compaired to guns/missiles its a combination of things that makes it a great ship. overpowered? erm slighly, not by much.
Redwolf	Posted - 2006.03.04 16:37:00 - [50] Edited by: Redwolf on 04/03/2006 16:40:59 (bleh)
Furion35	Posted - 2006.03.04 16:51:00 - [51] Originally by: Zed Nash Originally by: Kaylana Syi Dominix is the only BS in the game I feel needs to be brought down a notch or two. I think it should be 6 ( turrets ), 4 Mids, 8 lows and leave it alone. Spay its versatility, increase its tankability and it wouldn't be most versatile ship in the game bar none but still able to do the job. BS vs BS, close range, a Dominix is a beast. BS vs BS, long range, a Dominix is a target. Don't touch it. I assure you, most combat is close range. Proof? Scramblers are 7500m and disruptors 20km. Fleet battles are a small piece of the pvp pie.
Furion35	Posted - 2006.03.04 17:00:00 - [52] Dominix has the best in everything. Dominix: Tank matches Apocalypse, the specialized tanking ship with ** damage) Enough middle slots to be as effective in ew ( only in 1v1 situations though) as a Scorpian which is the specialized ew boat with damage and tank Can fit enough heavy nos to match the Typhoon, the specialized nos with ** tank Drones give good, no cap, no pg/cpu, all damage types, dps.
Elendar	Posted - 2006.03.04 18:08:00 - [53] Basically don't engage a domi from nos range if your relying on being able to kill it fast, most domi tanks are pretty sick and they run off your cap too one (risky) trick is to kill your own cap as fast as you can as most domis will be relying on your cap to sustain their own, then time boosts with your reps and hardners also t2 heavies hurt like ****, as as your gonna be weak to exp....
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.04 19:22:00 - [54] According to the log analyzer of QuickFit damage was like so To Imhotep : 17390.7 (173.91 dmg/sec) To Gudrodur: 8321.7 (83.22 dmg/sec) His drone accuracy was 96%, my gun accuracy was 88%. That is ludicrous. Of course it turns out that his buddy did more damage than I thought. To Imhotep : 12611.6 (210.19 dmg/sec) And he missed the first 40s of the damn fight WTF?? Something is wrong. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2006.03.04 20:10:00 - [55] the domi is overpowered by a long long way, for a ship to have that much firepower at its disposal before it even uses any of its slots is way out of balance with the rest of the bs`s, give the domi only 2 high slots and then that would bring it into line, atm its the i-win button on soo many fronts, we even have potential sniper setups being discussed for it with the introduction of sentry drones ffs. hom many other ships can fit a full range of weapons for any range while keeping a pretty bog standard setup. nos, ecm, armor tank and a versatile and unmached arsenal with a compliment of various drones ---------------------------------------------
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2006.03.04 20:25:00 - [56] Never try to kill the domi's drones unless they're sentries. he has 15 of the things and he'll happily let you blast them away, as he destroys you. Sounds like the guy had sentry drones. Its alot easier to destroy them than heavies. You'll need 800mm AC's with t2 ammo. If he's using tank + ECM, then it'll take him FOREVER to kill you, and you'll prolly come out on top. Gank domi will eat you alive, may be close. 6x 800mm AC's + 2 NOS AB, Cap injector, Dual Repps, 3 hardeners 5x mediums ON THE DOMI. fitting mods. Stay outside NOS range, NOS when he gets within yours. AB might be smarter, better cap use. He'll MWD close to you initially, but have to turn it off to conserve his cap. All the while, your AB is getting farther away from him. Towards the end of the fight, he'll still be hammering away with his lame drones and having to use his MWD to get within NOS range again. How long did the fight last? Prolly greater than 2min I bet. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Maorio	Posted - 2006.03.04 20:35:00 - [57] if you fit for pure tanking I can tank 2 ravens (2 large t2 reppers 3 n-type hards 1 domination hard) in it (unknown opponent sp, corp mates firing as well and it was a close range fight) but I had another friendly fight with another corp mate in his tempest and got beaten it took time but I lost and he (10m+ sp in gunnery) was in like 40% sheild (sheild tank) I cleaned his cap really fast but he had cap injectors and he kept pounding on my at 15km, the point with the domi is to fit a crazy tank and leave it at that, ie. tanking you enemies to death, so my best tip to everyone trying to fight domis don't engage it in a close range fight unless you know what you are doing or have more nos than he has or flying your own domi with better skills than he has. cap injectors will save your life
Morigan	Posted - 2006.03.04 20:57:00 - [58] My suggestion: Figure out just how much of a tank you'd really need to tank his drones, then run 3 nos x 5 guns with a sensor dampener and 2x racial jammers, or just 3 racial jammers. Preferably T2. If you can tank his drones and dissable his nos through EW and then his tank through nos, you can kick anythings butt. Either that or bring 10 freinds to the fight next time :P
Crellion	Posted - 2006.03.04 21:19:00 - [59] While I fully respect all the comments in this thread it appears you were also being hit by a Mega. Twin rep apocs can barely tank a rail Mega for 2 mins if it hits ok (transversal - distance). Nothing can tank a Blastermega indefinately. No single BS can survive Mega and Dominix assault but a Scorp so... the discussion is cool but the original example is really pointless...
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.04 21:30:00 - [60] There are several points here. As you see he more than doubled my damage and he was only using Drones. The mega also more than doubled my DPS (was not using blasters). I have 6M in gunnery and Minmatar BS 4. This seems wrong. Tempest with 6 T2 guns with gyro T2 and T2 ammo is not even 1/2 damage of dominix or megathron? How is that remotely correct? I was close enough that I should have had good hits as well. I'm not discussing ship balance. I am trying to understand if these numbers make sense. I hear people talk 100+ DPS, and my DPS is only about 80. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.03.05 03:31:00 - [61] Sorry this is going a little bit offtopic: I can¦t use it, but I don¦t know why everybody is so excited about barrage ammo. It actually does nothing for your damage. Imo it actually reduces your damage because of the large falloff you forget about the drawbacks of falloff. A large falloff is nice to kill smaller ships with uber tracking at the edge of falloff, that¦s all. But anything above 20% of falloff will reduce your damage drastically. Acs have to use falloff because they don¦t have enough tracking at optimal. But this doesn¦t mean it¦s good to use it extensively. Against a dominix with a 3 hardener standard tank, barrage does a little bit less damage than emp.
Xhieron	Posted - 2006.03.05 03:44:00 - [62] I've spent the last few days researching Domi's and their setups. I've flown one, but never fitted it for the purpose of omgwtfpwning people. Long and short of it, I'm a BB newb, so I don't presume to tell anyone how to do things, or what makes a particular engagement fun or frustrating. BUT, I noticed something in this argument that's very interesting to me. This isn't a straight, "X1 + X2 = Domi is overpowered," "X1 + X2 = Domi is fine" argument. From the looks of things (I've yet to be ganked by one), a NOS'ing drone-happy Domi is a force to be reckoned with inside 22-25 km. That's a fair conclusion. I think it's also fair to say that at sniping range, a Domi is basically a sitting duck. The argument doesn't hinge on the actual merits of the ship, or the situationality of its common fittings: it hinges on whether or not anti-Domi pilots can kill a Domi--and kill it within range to lock it down. I don't think the problem lies in the Domi's slot layout, or in Nos'ing in general (although I think true to form, there should be a situational countermeasure to nosing, such as a cap recharger that recharges a large amount, but only works under the attack of a Nos; if you dedicate a slot to it, you counter a slot on the opponent, ala ECM:ECCM). It lies in the fact that you can't scramble a Domi without getting into his/her optimal range. If blasters were fixed, wouldn't this similarly be true about a blasterthron? --or any other close-range setup? The fact is, balance dictates that a close-range setup has the luxury of escaping if the need arises (I think the suggestion to MWD in and scramble a vulnerable Domi as he recalls his drones is the most insightful thing that's been said on the topic). It's not perfect, but them's the breaks. Winning an engagement doesn't always mean you get to annihilate the loser. If you can teach a domi pilot that he/she won't be able to sap you dry and maintain his/her tank no matter what he/she does to get to you, then you've eliminated the threat of that ship. You might not have the satisfaction of having destroyed that ship, but from what I've read, I gather that a good portion of Domi pilots feel just as frustrated about Ravens. There will always be a hierarchy. People who aren't on top at a given time want to change the hierarchy until they're on top (and thus the subject of the next nerf-wave). It so happens that the Dominix is a versatile ship, and a lot of people are drawn to that. It has advantages that tend to make it "fotm" at the moment, but the whole "I'm scissors. Nerf rock. Paper is fine as it is." mentality isn't conducive. I have a feeling that once the T3 BB's are out and working, the dynamic will change again, and while the Domi won't simply fade into the shadows (unless Kali breaks it, whereupon let loose the gates of backlash), there'll be a new setup or two to fume about. Just a few thoughts. Sorry for the rambling; I get carried away.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.03.05 03:53:00 - [63] If you see a Dominix, drop your nuts and run. (not entirely true but just really felt like saying that ;s
Wizie	Posted - 2006.03.05 06:52:00 - [64] Originally by: Xhieron BUT, I noticed something in this argument that's very interesting to me. This isn't a straight, "X1 + X2 = Domi is overpowered," "X1 + X2 = Domi is fine" argument. From the looks of things (I've yet to be ganked by one), a NOS'ing drone-happy Domi is a force to be reckoned with inside 22-25 km. That's a fair conclusion. I think it's also fair to say that at sniping range, a Domi is basically a sitting duck. The argument doesn't hinge on the actual merits of the ship, or the situationality of its common fittings: it hinges on whether or not anti-Domi pilots can kill a Domi--and kill it within range to lock it down. A Domi makes rather decent sniping ship since the nerfing of stacking mods. 2 RCU II, 3 mag stab IIs, 2 tracking enhancer IIs, 2 sensor booster IIs, tracking comp II and 2 free mods with 160+ of cpu left for to fit jamming/dampening/othergheyewmods 6 425 II railguns I see nothing wrong with using the Domi for fleet fights at range. It would actually make a fine ship. And have the ability to travel solo to an extent due to its insane amount of drones for backup.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.05 15:30:00 - [65] Originally by: Bottled Brain Sorry this is going a little bit offtopic: I can¦t use it, but I don¦t know why everybody is so excited about barrage ammo. It actually does nothing for your damage. Imo it actually reduces your damage because of the large falloff you forget about the drawbacks of falloff. A large falloff is nice to kill smaller ships with uber tracking at the edge of falloff, that¦s all. But anything above 20% of falloff will reduce your damage drastically. Acs have to use falloff because they don¦t have enough tracking at optimal. But this doesn¦t mean it¦s good to use it extensively. Against a dominix with a 3 hardener standard tank, barrage does a little bit less damage than emp. Falloff is not a concern. It can be piloted around. If you use EMP you know it already has 50% reduced range. AC have good tracking at optimal, but not excellent. Especially the dual 425s. Though target painters or tracking computers do increase your damage since there is room for tracking improvement. Anyway, I did the numbers and yes, EMP seems like a better choice against non-Minmatar ships. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.03.05 16:56:00 - [66] Edited by: Bottled Brain on 05/03/2006 16:56:40 Maybe I missunderstand you, but you can¦t get around the damage reduction of falloff by piloting, it¦s built-in. On the first page of the tracking guide (the flash thingy) you will find exactly this problem: "So the goal of every pilot is to find a range where the range penalty (= falloff) doesn¦t reduce the chance to hit by too much and the turret ist still able to track the target. This is most important for projectile turrets due to their optimal range, huge falloff range and slow tracking speed." I know this is mainly directed to artilleries but is also true for acs. On the thrid page yo get this: "As we have seen on the page about range penalties however a distance above the turret¦s optimal range will decrease the chance to hit." I don¦t want to argue about the tracking, but two ships going in different directions produce insane transversal velocities of 300m/s + at close range.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.07 03:13:00 - [67] Well I always minimize transversal because everyone else's tracking is better than mine anyway. For the record, just pounded on this guy in my new setup, along with a Friend in a Raven. Fight lasted about 4 minutes, result...Same. Probably im just dumb for intending to go after him again. Kind of like still flying Minmatar after years of having inferior ships... ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.03.07 04:39:00 - [68] Drones has been boosted in RMR because it boosted their HP which made it impossible to kill drones with smartbomb as fast as pre-RMR. To undo this unwanted and unasked for boost, just replace drones' HP bonuses (Domi bonus, Drone Interfacing bonus, Drones Durability bonus perhaps) with Signature Radius Reduction bonus. This way drones still can be killed fast with smartbomb, but targeting each and picking them with guns will get too long to be effective, just how it worked pre-RMR. This way balance will return to pre-RMR state, and I don't remember as much whining about Domi pre-RMR as now.
Don Elmus	Posted - 2006.03.07 08:25:00 - [69] Originally by: Imhotep Khem So I got killed by a dominix in my Tempest. I intend to get my revenge. He was using Berserker IIs. Which is nasty against a Tempest. I was using Dual 425mm T2 with Barrage T2 ammo. First of all his drones hits were harder than my hits once we both started hitting armor. Not even considering the faster ROF of the drones. Can a dominix field a set of drones, and still have a harder tank than a Tempest? Obviously he was highly skilled, but my skills run pretty high too. We both used T2 equipment. Should I have shot the drones? Should I try smartbombs? though I think they would kill my poor cap. my gun average was about 43 Drone average was about 65-70 These wrecks should be into armor: Your Dual 425mm AutoCannon II perfectly strikes Enemy, wrecking for 115.5 damage. Berserker II belonging to Enemy strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 204.7 damage. I have to be honest. IN a tempest with a dual gun bonus I would expect to have harder hits than a Berserker II. Tips/advice/ridicule? Who was it - Schnuur ? He can be OutNossed
Gudrodur	Posted - 2006.03.07 08:47:00 - [70] Edited by: Gudrodur on 07/03/2006 08:47:53 Originally by: Imhotep Khem Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 07/03/2006 03:47:16 Well I always minimize transversal because everyone else's tracking is better than mine anyway. Just lost again and I had a Raven with me. I got an idea though (this is gettin expensive) Well good fun again m8 Well this time I actually had to use my second repairer too but nice try. Really looking forward to our next fight. 1 vs 3 anyone
Pesadel0	Posted - 2006.03.07 09:28:00 - [71] I tried outgunning a domi long ago ;) , i think you have 2 options: 1-Run when you see them. 2-Fit racial jammers and jam is ass to oblivion .
errorist	Posted - 2006.03.07 11:01:00 - [72] Originally by: Zysco Please orbit my domi at 25km with your tempest. ehm that u can say easilly, if the domi has a mwd for example...or named nos that have a range of 25 km( i know i fly with the 24 km ones) yes the domi has the advantage it dosent need to fitt specific modules and i can pretty much take on about any thing even if setup for 0.0 ratting and there was 1 that said a megathron also could do the same thing a domi can.... that would never be a reality vs a domi since the domi would kill drones then tear the mega appart If something is hard going, its not worth doing
Schinoble	Posted - 2006.03.07 11:33:00 - [73] arnt gallente meant to be the close range combat kings, or have i been reading all the ship information wrong.
FawKa	Posted - 2006.03.07 11:34:00 - [74] Heavy T2 drones has overcomed the dps of T2 guns. and Thats it. If he has, BS lvl 5, droner interfacing lvl 5, heavy drones lvl 5, gallente drone spec lvl 4 his drones will hit you 210% harder. only thing is - the drone range isnt that far - if he dont use drone links ECM's would work as some ppl said, but if he press attack before you ECM and ECM him after. The drones will keep killing you even if he cant lock you. smartbombs as you said, but there is a cap problem, and would be ****ty if you meet an apoc instead of a Domi the next time, you cant kill him with a smartbomb after all. and a Domi has room for 3 teams of 5x T2 heavy drones. I dont know what you can do other than that. I'm flying domi myself as a drone specialist. If the domi tanks right, fits enough Nos' you will still have problems killing him.
Joshua Deakin	Posted - 2006.03.07 12:49:00 - [75] Edited by: Joshua Deakin on 07/03/2006 12:53:41 Originally by: Dexter Rast give the domi only 2 high slots and then that would bring it into line, atm its the i-win button on soo many fronts, we even have potential sniper setups being discussed for it with the introduction of sentry drones ffs. hom many other ships can fit a full range of weapons for any range while keeping a pretty bog standard setup. nos, ecm, armor tank and a versatile and unmached arsenal with a compliment of various drones It sounds like you've not used a Dom at all... To get over 45km range with the sentrys you need to install one or more drone link augmentors, 20km range with each. With EW drone skills another 15km max. 45+20+20+15=100km range. And yes you need drone links to be able to engage targets further away, the 50+25 fallout with Wardens is useless until you can actually start shooting a distant target. If many BS's use nos as a basic defence then the Dom pilot has only two high slots left for guns. Maximized dps with T2 Ogres is around 432. Compare that to a Raven fitted with torps and nos plus drones.... And then talk about high damage. The Dominix does "only" 33% more damage with drones, they are also a bit more durable, but can not get close to a Ravens damage output. Oh and the thing about expandable drones... yeah over a million a pop with T2 heavys.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.03.07 14:09:00 - [76] Originally by: FawKa smartbombs as you said, but there is a cap problem, and would be ****ty if you meet an apoc instead of a Domi the next time, you cant kill him with a smartbomb after all. and a Domi has room for 3 teams of 5x T2 heavy drones. that's why I suggest to nerf drone HP to pre-RMR state and give drones the signature radius reduction bonus instead. Smartbombs are supposed to be counter to drones, but with current HP it's much less so.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.07 14:57:00 - [77] Damage output is not the problem. The problem is nothing is sacrificed to get this increadible output. The output that dwarfs a dual damage bonused Tempest... The bottom line? T2 Drones are dumb. Whereas T2 ammo has all sorts of whacky drawbacks, T2 Drones is just pure increased damage AND increased tracking AND increased HP. Makes me want to stop training for BS5, get the T2 Heavy drones and pull out my NosTyphoon... ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Derran	Posted - 2006.03.07 15:49:00 - [78] I, for one, am glad drones are no longer a secondary weapon. But there is a way to beat that dominix. Hell, I can even tell you what equipment he had on it last week. It has lots of expensive crap on it.
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.07 15:56:00 - [79] Originally by: Gudrodur Edited by: Gudrodur on 07/03/2006 08:47:53 Originally by: Imhotep Khem Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 07/03/2006 03:47:16 Well I always minimize transversal because everyone else's tracking is better than mine anyway. Just lost again and I had a Raven with me. I got an idea though (this is gettin expensive) Well good fun again m8 Well this time I actually had to use my second repairer too but nice try. Really looking forward to our next fight. 1 vs 3 anyone Yeah stop ******* with gudro, you should see how many solo bs kills he gets each day callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back
Phlaago Rexor	Posted - 2006.03.07 15:58:00 - [80] Originally by: Bottled Brain Edited by: Bottled Brain on 05/03/2006 16:56:40 Maybe I missunderstand you, but you can¦t get around the damage reduction of falloff by piloting, it¦s built-in. On the first page of the tracking guide (the flash thingy) you will find exactly this problem: "So the goal of every pilot is to find a range where the range penalty (= falloff) doesn¦t reduce the chance to hit by too much and the turret ist still able to track the target. This is most important for projectile turrets due to their optimal range, huge falloff range and slow tracking speed." I know this is mainly directed to artilleries but is also true for acs. On the thrid page yo get this: "As we have seen on the page about range penalties however a distance above the turret¦s optimal range will decrease the chance to hit." I don¦t want to argue about the tracking, but two ships going in different directions produce insane transversal velocities of 300m/s + at close range. You have it all wrong... Barrage does equal damage to EMP but different damagetypes (no EM for example) *at any range outside the optimal range you get with EMP ammo the barrage ammo will hit more often because it has better optimal range and much better falloff range.* against a standard 3 hardener armortank I would say barrage is a better choice for any range except pointblank range (where gallente ships will tear you apart if they have blasters) in other words... its the falloff range thats increased, not the falloff penalty.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.03.07 16:00:00 - [81] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 07/03/2006 16:02:08 Originally by: Imhotep Khem Damage output is not the problem. The problem is nothing is sacrificed to get this increadible output. The output that dwarfs a dual damage bonused Tempest... sacrificed is the longevity of this DPS. Because drones are SUPPOSED to be easily killable with smartbombs. It's an expendable DPS. So if they nerf drones' HP back to pre-RMR state (replacing with sig radius resolution reduction) things will return to normal. You will only need 1 or 2 smartbombs to pick them out. Just like it worked pre-RMR. Quote: The bottom line? T2 Drones are dumb. Whereas T2 ammo has all sorts of whacky drawbacks, T2 Drones is just pure increased damage AND increased tracking AND increased HP. t2 drones has NOTHING to do with t2 ammo penalty because drones are NOT ammo, they are turrets. If you give them t2 ammo penalties, then you should also give them equivalent of t2 turrets with some additional bonuses which can also be used with t1 drones .. which sounds silly. Oh I have an idea - create t2 drone control units that t2 drones can be used with? :) Quote: Makes me want to stop training for BS5, get the T2 Heavy drones and pull out my NosTyphoon... ha you make me stop wanting training for gal bs 5 too :) coz this amazing amount of domi whinnage will get it overnerfed eventually :(
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.03.07 16:21:00 - [82] Been thinking about a domi-beating tempest. Fighting a nos ship time is against you so how about dropping the 2 nos and fitting siege launchers for extra damage, and maybe clearing a mid slot for a second cap booster ( a medium ). Havent done the math, likely to need low cpu mods if it fits at all. Also would be a pain to carry the amount of cap charges you'd be using so logistically it'd suck anyway.
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.03.07 16:48:00 - [83] Edited by: Bottled Brain on 07/03/2006 16:48:50 Originally by: Phlaago Rexor ... You have it all wrong... Barrage does equal damage to EMP but different damagetypes (no EM for example) *at any range outside the optimal range you get with EMP ammo the barrage ammo will hit more often because it has better optimal range and much better falloff range.* against a standard 3 hardener armortank I would say barrage is a better choice for any range except pointblank range (where gallente ships will tear you apart if they have blasters) in other words... its the falloff range thats increased, not the falloff penalty. Well, I wrote about the damage a few post above. Emp does 17.8 and barrage 17.2 against a dominix with 3 t1 hardeners. dual 425mm t2 (20% of falloff used, skills lvl4) emp: 3840 x 0.5 (emp penalty) x 1.2 (skill) + 16000 x 0.2 x 1.2 (skill) = 6144m barrage: 3840 x 1.2 (skill) + 16000 x 0.2 x 1.2 (skill) x 1.5 (barrage bonus) = 10368m What you get is whooping 4km more usable range. And yes maybe a little bit more damage due to better tracking (hit chances). And this is really good enough for t2 ammo??, especially if you compare it to the damage of t2 drones (and the OP pointed out he had much less damage than his opponent despite using t2 ammo). You can¦t use the 50% increased falloff because the falloff reduces your damage, so the apparent advantage of barrage ammo doesnt exist. (If you have ever seen a damage curve of acs you will see that a large falloff looks nice but doesn¦t do much because the damage gets too low further into falloff.)
Junius	Posted - 2006.03.07 21:56:00 - [84] well i was using a blasterthron.....so dont beat your self up
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.07 23:17:00 - [85] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe t2 drones has NOTHING to do with t2 ammo penalty because drones are NOT ammo, they are turrets. If you give them t2 ammo penalties, then you should also give them equivalent of t2 turrets with some additional bonuses which can also be used with t1 drones .. which sounds silly. Oh I have an idea - create t2 drone control units that t2 drones can be used with? :) I don't care how you slice it. Why should 5xT2 drones outdamage 6xT2 autocannons? ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.07 23:26:00 - [86] I just had a thought... fit some multispecs and jam his drones. That should reduce his dps -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.03.07 23:40:00 - [87] He must have a lot of expensive gear on his domi to take on 2 BS and win... I know he could not take on ANY two bs :)... Ison's notches
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.07 23:43:00 - [88] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain He must have a lot of expensive gear on his domi to take on 2 BS and win... I know he could not take on ANY two bs :)... Actually its not that hard to do with EW the way it is. Jam one, tank+kill the other. Pretty simple to be honest. -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.03.08 00:03:00 - [89] well if ew was involved, then 2 ships jamming him could do it as well... Ison's notches
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.08 02:23:00 - [90] Originally by: jamesw I just had a thought... fit some multispecs and jam his drones. That should reduce his dps Thats a definite thought. Especially if he can't tell they are jammed. However, drones are not listing sensor strength so its questionable. The 'insta-lock' that we always attribute to drones is just our logical excuse for the reason ECM burst does not work on them. I wouldn't be surprised if ECM did not work on them either. Even then, I can jam maybe 1 drone. Drop his damage by 20%, and he will still outdamage and out tank me. Im gonna have to look at the paper numbers because im sure CCP at least checked the paper numbers. I will be disappointed if t2 drones outdamage t2 autocannons on paper as well. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.08 03:01:00 - [91] This suggests Ogre II's have a sensor strength of 1. Anything should jam them 100%. Fit 3 multispecs on, jam 3x drones and you will be laughing. -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
Kirex	Posted - 2006.03.08 03:50:00 - [92] Edited by: Kirex on 08/03/2006 03:52:28 Or maybe 1 ECM burst? might be usless vs any thing else, but it gets the drones out of your way, halfing about half his damage. edit: nvm this, It pays to read the whole thread -_-
Joshua Deakin	Posted - 2006.03.08 09:52:00 - [93] Edited by: Joshua Deakin on 08/03/2006 09:53:37 It seems that the original thread starter has really low dps. Why don't we leave out the Domis drones. A Blasternix will do 230+dps without damage mods with 6Large Neutrons (Antimatter) with really basic gunnery skills. Or a railnix 135+dps with 5425mm+1350mm (not enough grid to fit 6425) scouts again without damage mods. It seems the root your problem is not the dmg a Dominix makes but the fitting/skills you have... Edit: And to suggest T2 heavys should be taken down with just a few cycles of large SB is just silly. The drones would be quite useless after that. And they do cost a bundle to lose.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.03.08 10:50:00 - [94] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe t2 drones has NOTHING to do with t2 ammo penalty because drones are NOT ammo, they are turrets. If you give them t2 ammo penalties, then you should also give them equivalent of t2 turrets with some additional bonuses which can also be used with t1 drones .. which sounds silly. Oh I have an idea - create t2 drone control units that t2 drones can be used with? :) I don't care how you slice it. Why should 5xT2 drones outdamage 6xT2 autocannons on a ship with a dual autocannon damage bonus? (and by THAT much) BECAUSE drones are EXPENDABLE, you are supposed to kill them easily. Turrets on the other hand will only die when ship is destroyed. If you start again about that you can't kill them easily now, then see above - I agree this is a problem and have suggested the solution twice.
qyros	Posted - 2006.03.08 16:55:00 - [95] Originally by: jamesw This suggests Ogre II's have a sensor strength of 1. Anything should jam them 100%. Fit 3 multispecs on, jam 3x drones and you will be laughing. If you can jam them like normal ships, you could jam a heavy t2 combat drone with a single light ecm drone. I haven¦t tested it, but this seems too good to be true. Anyone here who tried that and can give some info?
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.08 18:29:00 - [96] Originally by: qyros Originally by: jamesw This suggests Ogre II's have a sensor strength of 1. Anything should jam them 100%. Fit 3 multispecs on, jam 3x drones and you will be laughing. If you can jam them like normal ships, you could jam a heavy t2 combat drone with a single light ecm drone. I haven¦t tested it, but this seems too good to be true. Anyone here who tried that and can give some info? light jam for 1, medium 1.5 vs t2 drones str of 1. Thats going to make it quite unreliable, but my drone space has nothing better to do. I'm glad someone finally mentioned my low damage output. Its disturbing to me. I have good skills and as you can see its T2 equipment. I don't know what to make of it. BS5 should add another 10%, but all of my remaining skills wont get me another 50% damage... ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
BillyBong2	Posted - 2006.03.08 18:59:00 - [97] Mind listing your relavent Gunnery Skills? _________________________ Siggy by Esturary
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:12:00 - [98] Gunnery V Rapid Fire V Sharpshooter V Motion Predicion V Trajectory Analysis IV Surgical Strike IV Minmatar BS IV Large Auto Spec III ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
BillyBong2	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:54:00 - [99] OK, using the Turret tracking guide that Tomb stickied up top. I have come up with what I think is part of the DPS issue you might be having. You said the second encounter starter or stayed around 23km. IF that is case, playing with just base numbers, not including your skills, at that range you had a 40% chance of hitting him. Again, with base numbers from the 425mm II and the barrage ammo, at 7km you would have a 90% chance to hit and unmodified 14.92 dps. That is one gun and then you can factor in all of your skills. Really looks you are fighting outside of your optimal range. Let me know if I am completely off-base. I am assuming you have Sharp Shoot to level 5, which is 25% to optimal range. If that is the case the numbers look like this. Moves the range out a bit to 7.km and an unmodified DPS of 15.17, again this is unmodified just using the Turret tracking. _________________________ Siggy by Esturary
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:43:00 - [100] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Originally by: qyros Originally by: jamesw This suggests Ogre II's have a sensor strength of 1. Anything should jam them 100%. Fit 3 multispecs on, jam 3x drones and you will be laughing. If you can jam them like normal ships, you could jam a heavy t2 combat drone with a single light ecm drone. I haven¦t tested it, but this seems too good to be true. Anyone here who tried that and can give some info? light jam for 1, medium 1.5 vs t2 drones str of 1. Thats going to make it quite unreliable, but my drone space has nothing better to do. even with light jamming drones, jamming for 1 strength should be enough. As far as I can tell - 1 strength jamming vs. 1 sensor strength = 100% chance of a jam. -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.08 23:21:00 - [101] I was using Barrage ammo which has no optimal nerf but has a 50% falloff bonus. Yes I was fighting in my falloff, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Cant always be at optimal. Especially vs. Gallente. jamesw, surely you know ECM does not work like that anymore. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
jamesw	Posted - 2006.03.08 23:23:00 - [102] I have never used them before. My understanding of the ECM system is that jammer strength / sensor strength = % chance of a jam. I just plug 1/1 in and you get 100% Thats not how it works? -- Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
qyros	Posted - 2006.03.10 20:17:00 - [103] ...you can¦t jam drones... Thanks for the idea though. I tested it against a corp mate for several minutes. Neither a multispec t1 nor 5 med ecm drones affected the attacking drone.

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