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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3766
   |
Posted - 2013.12.07 00:50:00 -
[121] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:as I'm less then a year in eve I try new activities from time to time. at any rate tried some exploration lately and it's lots of fun.. roaming around the universe and finding stuf etc...
but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise.
First we got anomalies which are around L1 mission without stnadings or LP.
then we got combat sites which are about L2 or something like that without LP or standings.
both of those are pretty annoying as the drops sucks big time best thing I got was 10 mil laser turret and that's about it.
I was very excited when I got my first data and archaeology sites but god they are bad....
the hacking mini game is nice but truly only way to fail it is on purpose, then some cans sprays around and if you had cargo scanner before you at least knows what and try to get first but well... each one of those netted me less then 300 k :X
even while I was mining in 1.0 with venture and 24 h mining skills I made more isk then that and without the hassle of scanning, also while on belts mining I get officer rat once in a while which sometimes drops implants and other goodies worth 100s of millions all while having fun pooling rocks easily.
Security and other missions are easy enough on high sec and you get LP + Standings which both are rewards in their own.
Trading will net a lot lot lot more then exploration.
so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.
Long ago, when exploration changed in 2009, highsec exploration still stank, but there were the Phi outposts, and life was good anyway.
Then came some bot-killing by CCP, driving tengues into highsec, who would farm the Phi outpost in 1 minute.
Then some changes were made. I don't know.
Did you know you should not be exploring strictly in highsec?
Let me guess, someone told you that you have to join a huge alliance and move out to nullsec or else you will die in 2 minutes out there.
Hogwash.
Use wormholes to get to deep null. Find an empty system or a system inhabited by people in a different TZ. Profit. I spent years doing this and coming back after a few months with a hold full of loot.
And I seldom use a gate or a station.
Yeah, easy travel? Forget it. Station hugging? You have a spaceship with an infinite power supply and a huge space out there. Who is making you live in what, one cluster of systems?
So what if you can't go to Jita to sell your loot in the same day.
Yeah there's a sandbox, but you still have to think outside of it. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Independent Faction
320
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 00:52:00 -
[122] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:Avoid an inty landing on you in 5 seconds when your align time is 8.
I could go on, but I already have, and you clearly didn't bother trying to understand that either so I will stop here, at the apparent hard limit of hisec dweller reasoning.
Hmm... let me try something... I see an unknown in system and reach ALL THE WAY OVER to my covert ops cloak hotkey, and push it. Then align to a safe spot (you may have heard of these) and warp to it. While cloaked. Makes it hard for the infy to 'land on you' unless you have some astonishingly bad luck. Because it's gonna take him a second to scan down either your ship or the site you're in.
I am the Walrus. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
36
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:02:00 -
[123] - Quote
@Cygnet Lythanea and others... I have no doubt exploration in low and null should be an interesting experiance I was just practicing the scanning and other techniques of the trade while training the skills in high sec until I will be able to get proper ship \ skills\ experience.
"What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what."
--áAaron Birch |
Celia Therone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:10:00 -
[124] - Quote
Archaeology sites in high sec have essentially no progression. It's conceivable that you might not be able to scan down the very hardest to scan sites with truly lousy skills but I think that training time measured in days, if not hours, should fix that. As far as I have seen they also have no worthwhile loot, you'd literally be better off running level 1 missions or the noob intro missions again. It is conceivable that there might be a very low chance for a faction pos bpc drop, but I haven't witnessed it myself.
Hacking sites are the same as archaeology progression wise however their base loot (decryptors used in invention) is slightly better. However in the exploration re-vamp in Odyssey CCP screwed up the drop rates, as well as making the sites easier to find which has resulted in the value of the loot tanking on the market. You're probably looking at level 2/level 3 mission equivalent return. Which isn't terrible for a real noob but is pretty bad for anyone older than a couple of weeks.
Mining sites. Oh well, they made these anomalies so they aren't even exploration any more. No progression whatsoever.
Gas mining sites. No progression, generally pretty worthless unless you can make the boosters yourself (which you can't in high sec.)
Unknown combat sites. These have some progression, generally up to about level 3 mission equivalent. They tend to be sparse, you may have more luck finding them in pockets of high sec isolated by low sec unless other explorers are farming there already. Loot wise these vary from not very interesting to a billion isk/site if you roll the jackpot in drops. Sometimes you have to kill structures or specific rats to get the drops and as the drops are random you may be unlucky and get almost nothing, just some low value overseer's effects. 4/10 sites may be challenging to a newer player in a cruiser, they might not have the dps to break the serpentis phi overseer for example. Note that drone unknowns are pretty much worthless as they supply parts for the terrible augmented drones that no-one uses.
Expeditions vary wildly in difficulty from roughly level 1 difficulty up to beyond level 4 and come randomly from completing unknown, non-dead, combat sites. There's at least one death room that will kill you unless you read up on it ahead of time and several rooms that are quite dangerous to newer players with webs, warp disruptors and significant DPS to deal with. Rewards are highly random and the escalations are quite sparse so you can spend a lot of time for derisory rewards if you're unlucky. The last stage of an escalation will be in low sec if it runs that far, many will arbitrarily stop part way though due to random number generator. Even if you clear the low sec mission the majority of the time you will get nothing of value, but sometimes you can get a great drop or a quick succession of mediocre drops that adds up to something nice.
Ghost sites - not really exploration. I haven't done enough to be able to give good feedback. They seem lucrative for the time invested at the moment but I think that in the short-medium term the very small demand for the implants will be met and they will become pretty worthless.
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Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
304
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Posted - 2013.12.07 08:08:00 -
[125] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks. Risk vs. reward.
Level 4s
This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 10:02:00 -
[126] - Quote
The issue with exploration is not rewards. I don't buy it. I can make as much soloing exploration sites as I can soloing an L4. It's a lot of (time) risk vs reward. You can walk away with more than you'd have made in L4s at that time, or walk away with less.
Compared to mining I agree you'll almost always make less. DItto with L4s. They need to do something about high-sec mining clearly.
The issue is that exploration is not exploration. I'm not saying the activities are bad anything, although some might argue they are. I'm saying there is no actual exploration. We are space technicians. We are space hackers. We are space fighters. We are not explorers. There is no unknown to discover. It's all discovered for us now. Until that changes, this should not be called exploration anymore. Call it grinding anomalies because that's all it is now. I'll touch more on this in a different topic as to not strain this one with another subject matter. |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens
Rookie Empire
225
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 10:04:00 -
[127] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:as I'm less then a year in eve I try new activities from time to time. at any rate tried some exploration lately and it's lots of fun.. roaming around the universe and finding stuf etc...
but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise.
First we got anomalies which are around L1 mission without stnadings or LP.
then we got combat sites which are about L2 or something like that without LP or standings.
both of those are pretty annoying as the drops sucks big time best thing I got was 10 mil laser turret and that's about it.
I was very excited when I got my first data and archaeology sites but god they are bad....
the hacking mini game is nice but truly only way to fail it is on purpose, then some cans sprays around and if you had cargo scanner before you at least knows what and try to get first but well... each one of those netted me less then 300 k :X
even while I was mining in 1.0 with venture and 24 h mining skills I made more isk then that and without the hassle of scanning, also while on belts mining I get officer rat once in a while which sometimes drops implants and other goodies worth 100s of millions all while having fun pooling rocks easily.
Security and other missions are easy enough on high sec and you get LP + Standings which both are rewards in their own.
Trading will net a lot lot lot more then exploration.
so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.
Thats how CCP tryes to encourage you to go in lowsec/nullsec
We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do... |
Eso Es
Nehalem Inc.
28
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 15:26:00 -
[128] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Most people in this thread are just lazily repeating tired platitudes and not replying to the actual question.
The question is not 'why are high-sec exploration rewards low in comparison to low and null sec' but 'why are high-sec exploration rewards low in comparison to other high-sec activities'.
Banging the risk/reward drum doesn't answer this one (although a few of the replies have been more enlightening).
This is an excellent point, a lot of it has to do with market saturation. Soo many people are out exploring, so the market is getting flooded with all of the relic/data site loot, lowering the price. I remember I actually used to make decent money doing c2 data sites (pre Odessy), but now i dont even touch the cans in a c3, the price has absolutely tanked on anything you could get out of them.
The solution for our OP? Take more risks and go to null/low for exploration, or find a different profession :P
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Eram Fidard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
483
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 16:15:00 -
[129] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Hmm... let me try something... I see an unknown in system and reach ALL THE WAY OVER to my covert ops cloak hotkey, and push it. Then align to a safe spot (you may have heard of these) and warp to it. While cloaked. Makes it hard for the infy to 'land on you' unless you have some astonishingly bad luck. Because it's gonna take him a second to scan down either your ship or the site you're in.
Because optimal ratting setups have covops cloaks.
Rats never target you.
Three interceptors would never jump into system at the same time and shotgun the three hubs.
and
It takes more than a half second to click the arrow next to the words "forsaken hub"
Your posting makes me think you've never actually played out in null. Either that or your idea of optimal ratting is 50m/hour in which case go to hi-sec you will make more for less risk
Honestly, who the hell fits a covops cloak to make isk?
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Independent Faction
331
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 17:34:00 -
[130] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:
Because optimal ratting setups have covops cloaks.
Or scan probes, either. Some of us are smart enough not to sit there with an arrow over our heads that says 'warp to dumbass'.
Eram Fidard wrote:Three interceptors would never jump into system at the same time and shotgun the three hubs.
No, they most assuredly will. They're also gonna check the belts and probably the Pocos and planets. That's why you fit accordingly. Also. Best loot is in the ones you have to scan down, and there's fewer asshats.
Eram Fidard wrote: Either that or your idea of optimal ratting is 50m/hour in which case go to hi-sec you will make more for less risk
Honestly, who the hell fits a covops cloak to make isk?
Well, two points here:I make more than 50m an hour in highsec masturbating in station, and way more in low and null actually doing something. Two, Back in my day, Junior, we didn't have 'warp to 0', we had a bunch of bookmarks that hopefully got us through the day alive. We assumed that at any moment a veritable rainbow of hostile assholes would jump in, and fitted accordingly.
You might think my fit suboptimal but it does do what I want it to, which is let me enjoy pretty much any region of space I particularly want to go to. Sometimes I want PvP. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I like to lounge around in belts in highsec, or play the market. or **** around with POS someplace.
Further, I might point out that a covert ops fit can make you a whole lot of isk if, for example, you decided to run high value, low cargo space goods from, say, B4 to empire space. The resale value of barge bpos can be fairly lucrative on occasion, as an example.
I am the Walrus. |
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