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Why high sec Exploration rewards are that horrible?

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RAW23 573	Posted - 2013.12.05 10:31:00 - [31] - Quote Orravan wrote: RAW23 wrote: The question is not 'why are high-sec exploration rewards low in comparison to low and null sec' but 'why are high-sec exploration rewards low in comparison to other high-sec activities'. Quote: so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? The repeated emphasis on "in High Sec" in OP' message makes it clear enough that's it's a comparison between HighSec and LowSec/Null exploration. Either that, or OP is not clear enough. You'll notice that basically everyone, either those supporting OP or those contradicting him, understood it that way. Every single example he gives for comparison is to a different high-sec activity. He doesn't mention low or null at all. The reason he emphasises 'high-sec' is just because he is ... talking about high-sec exploration and has nothing to say about other types at all. The subsequent discussion based on a comparison to low and null is a consequence of laziness on the part of those responding and a pre-disposition towards reading everything in terms of their pet peeves. It has nothing to do with any lack of clarity in the OP. Quote: The same answers will be given anyway : risk / reward is the reason. Mining can earn you some cash in HighSec, but it's boring as hell, and it hardly is a "game" (though I acknowledge some people are having fun with it - which is fine). And mining simply can't be compared to exploration, as it's the cornerstone of production in Eve. I don't find this particularly compelling. a) Risk/reward is not a catch-all mantra that also covers boredom vs. excitement, those are two quite different things. b) His first two comparisons are to level 1 and 2 missions and, as far as I'm aware, these are not inherently more risky than exploration. More convincing was the suggestion on the first page that high-sec exploration is only intended to be an introductory playground to get the skills down and is not actually meant to be a profession at all. There are two types of EVE player: those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Nalelmir Ahashion Viziam Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.12.05 10:41:00 - [32] - Quote well guys the point of this thread is "Exploration rewards in highsec vs other highsec rewards". I agree that lower security areas gives much better rewards and will be much more interesting to play but as my exploration skills were low I was practicing on highsec until I would have got them high enough. I did number of DED 3\10 and 4\10 some unranked combat signatures, data and relic sites and of course the usual anomalies. thing is that I really love exploration it's lot of fun... I was just roaming systems finding hidden places in space discovering stuff with some interesting hacking mini game \ scanning mini game and combat BUT rewards are joke I mean... 500 isk from data site? wtf while doing L1s you get better reward then this and trust me I didn't got almost +10 standing with amarr navy without learning to check online every space pocket before I go into it and prepare myself accordingly... so once in a while you .. might... get officer loot yay but everywhere else you might get that loot... so some ratting on belts there are officer rats sometimes with huge loot drops, on security missions you get the chance for officer spawn as well and loot from buildings. while mining in high sec I can make loads of cash very easily as I got perfect refining as well but I don't care about the isk I got enough for plex and some nice ship to fool around but to my annoyance scanning and searching a site for 20 minutes then get like 100 isk is just let down.. I thought there will be some scale of rewards with other activities. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Roime Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 3742	Posted - 2013.12.05 11:00:00 - [33] - Quote In hisec, everything is indeed horrible Players, mechanics, rewards. It's nice for your first month and first steps in space, but the game really starts once you leave the cradle. Good luck! Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping.
Nalelmir Ahashion Viziam Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.12.05 11:24:00 - [34] - Quote guys please stop comparing high to low and null this is not the topic here! I'm asking about exploration vs other activities in highsec! "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 371	Posted - 2013.12.05 11:32:00 - [35] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: guys please stop comparing high to low and null this is not the topic here! I'm asking about exploration vs other activities in highsec! For ages I made 65m/hr doing serpentis highsec exploration. I also made about 60m/hr when I was blitzing missions with a dominix. if you do guristas highsec exploration you can beat 100m, and if I blitzed for sisters at their current conversion rate, I'd probably be near on 100m/hr in a dominix. About the only way you'll do better than those solo is mach in missions or by running incursions. exploration is mostly about the sigs you discard, so that you get more time to find and do the ones with the likelyhood of valuable drops. and its also about how long you've been doing it to even out the randomness. It is a skinnerbox task after all.
Nalelmir Ahashion Viziam Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.12.05 11:40:00 - [36] - Quote Tauranon wrote: For ages I made 65m/hr doing serpentis highsec exploration. I also made about 60m/hr when I was blitzing missions with a dominix. if you do guristas highsec exploration you can beat 100m, and if I blitzed for sisters at their current conversion rate, I'd probably be near on 100m/hr in a dominix. About the only way you'll do better than those solo is mach in missions or by running incursions. exploration is mostly about the sigs you discard, so that you get more time to find and do the ones with the likelyhood of valuable drops. and its also about how long you've been doing it to even out the randomness. It is a skinnerbox task after all. I tried exploration sites of all kinds for about 3-4 days and about 20 hours in total I think. I did it in amarr space on domain and Kador regions in 0.5 and 0.6 regions as well.. never I had more valuable drop then the random 10 mil turret drop I got. might be the site type? blood raiders and sansha sites have less chance to drop anything which worth the time? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Bloodmyst Ranwar Dark Miresa 17	Posted - 2013.12.05 11:53:00 - [37] - Quote Honestly, what a joke of a thread! I consider myself a noobie to this game (been playing for about a year now) and even I know that you cannot expect to have such high rewards in relatively safe space! If you want better rewards start exploring in low sec.... if you aren't happy with the rewards in low sec go into null sec! The opportunities are there and it's entirely up to you where you do your exploration. Personally, I can't believe pilots think it's even that risky to explore nullsec! If you want to stay in highsec and aren't happy with the reward exploration provides you. Find another activity that nets you bigger rewards. Don't come onto the forums whining to the developers to make the game "easy" for you. This alone is the sole reason why so many games these days are ****. TLDR: Learn how to EVE. The more you learn about the game, the less you are worried about what security space you are in. If you can't be bothered, go back to WOW. WOW already caters to the "I want an easy, social game" audience.
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 371	Posted - 2013.12.05 11:58:00 - [38] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Tauranon wrote: For ages I made 65m/hr doing serpentis highsec exploration. I also made about 60m/hr when I was blitzing missions with a dominix. if you do guristas highsec exploration you can beat 100m, and if I blitzed for sisters at their current conversion rate, I'd probably be near on 100m/hr in a dominix. About the only way you'll do better than those solo is mach in missions or by running incursions. exploration is mostly about the sigs you discard, so that you get more time to find and do the ones with the likelyhood of valuable drops. and its also about how long you've been doing it to even out the randomness. It is a skinnerbox task after all. I tried exploration sites of all kinds for about 3-4 days and about 20 hours in total I think. I did it in amarr space on domain and Kador regions in 0.5 and 0.6 regions as well.. never I had more valuable drop then the random 10 mil turret drop I got. might be the site type? blood raiders and sansha sites have less chance to drop anything which worth the time? If you want to explore you should do all the unrateds and see what their escalations do and where they take you to. If you just want to make isk, focus on pirate 3/10s and 4/10s. 3-4 days of doing random exploration of what ever you find, will not even out your unlucky/lucky drops from the 3/10s and 4/10s because its not enough entries into the deds to get a reasonable sample. There are a few strategies for finding ded sites more frequently - especially if your game time is moderate. I would expect to make 60m/hr on average (with big streaks of nothing) from the 3 armor races, and 100m/hr from the shield races if I was really trying hard.
Nalelmir Ahashion Viziam Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:03:00 - [39] - Quote Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote: TLDR: Learn how to EVE. The more you learn about the game, the less you are worried about what security space you are in. If you can't be bothered, go back to WOW. WOW already caters to the "I want an easy, social game" audience. if you finished to stroke your e-peen then I'll point you out I am not comparing low or null activities but the fact that most of the exploration sites I encountered on high sec including DED 3\10 and 4\10 had ridiculous drops and loot.... Make sense to think that an encounter which I needed to scan for and find in hidden corner of the system will net something which is at least about the same as L1 or something but hell on data site I got like 200 isk :X on relic site I got 5,000 isk and both of those I cargo scanned and picked about 4-5 cans cherry picking. so the point is not to nerf or boost rewards or do any change at all as I don't really care I got other ways to make isk I just enjoy the experience my problem is I'm puzzled at this weird small value drops at first place.. @ Weeesearch so basicly you say that the DED rated sites are average value and the un rated sites are the more profitable ones that I should pursue? what your thoughts about data and archaeology sites? you think they are worth the time? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Bloodmyst Ranwar Dark Miresa 17	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:09:00 - [40] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote: TLDR: Learn how to EVE. The more you learn about the game, the less you are worried about what security space you are in. If you can't be bothered, go back to WOW. WOW already caters to the "I want an easy, social game" audience. if you finished to stroke your e-peen then I'll point you out I am not comparing low or null activities but the fact that most of the exploration sites I encountered on high sec including DED 3\10 and 4\10 had ridiculous drops and loot.... Make sense to think that an encounter which I needed to scan for and find in hidden corner of the system will net something which is at least about the same as L1 or something but hell on data site I got like 200 isk :X on relic site I got 5,000 isk and both of those I cargo scanned and picked about 4-5 cans cherry picking. so the point is not to nerf or boost rewards or do any change at all as I don't really care I got other ways to make isk I just enjoy the experience my problem is I'm puzzled at this weird small value drops at first place.. @ Weeesearch so basicly you say that the DED rated sites are average value and the un rated sites are the more profitable ones that I should pursue? what your thoughts about data and archaeology sites? you think they are worth the time? Last time I checked, the title of the thread was "Why high sec Exploration rewards are that horrible?" I'm merely pointing out that if you aren't satisfied with it, pick another location. Otherwise, sorry if I misread the title...... did I get the wrong memo?
Nalelmir Ahashion Viziam Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:15:00 - [41] - Quote @ Bloodmyst Ranwar I'll explain... the title is just one part of a thread.. you should read the official post and preferably the entire topic before you post. have a nice day sir. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Bloodmyst Ranwar Dark Miresa 17	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:22:00 - [42] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: @ Bloodmyst Ranwar I'll explain... the title is just one part of a thread.. you should read the official post and preferably the entire topic before you post. have a nice day sir. Again, if you think Highsec exploration rewards are bad... explore low sec and null sec. It's a solution to a problem you are whining about. And thanks, it is a nice day today. Would prefer some rain though :)
Good Posting Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:25:00 - [43] - Quote Ok, two things: 1. I don't think you are an explorer yet. True explorers look for goods out of safe space* and they understand that some days are better than others but they always have fun. If you are interested only in isk, running L4s will be better for you (isk wise). 2. The rewards in Hi Sec aren't bad at all, but the space is too crowded. As an explorer myself, I'm encouraging you to get out of Hi Sec. The feeling of accomplishment and the rewards will be greater, but not always. In EvE, sometimes the risks outweight the rewards and you have to live with that. Knowing that your ship will live another day it's a success and tomorrow will be another day with new sites, new people to meet and new opportunities. By safe space i mean Hi Sec, **** renters and other pets in Null Sec.
TigerXtrm Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 320	Posted - 2013.12.05 12:40:00 - [44] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? . Because this is a risk vs reward game. You want to get bigger rewards, go to places that are more dangerous. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 352	Posted - 2013.12.05 13:08:00 - [45] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise. both of those are pretty annoying as the drops sucks big time best thing I got was 10 mil laser turret and that's about it. so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks. i have had true sansha warp scrams and several low grade implants from high sec sites. i made billions total from high sec sites. oddly though the better drops happen in low and null. These days i just do null sites and they have some very nice drops (loot god permitting ofc). It isn't even very dangerous. i do most of them solo in other peoples sov space. The wh's you find from high sec can be pretty good too here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
Ursula Thrace Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 183	Posted - 2013.12.05 13:16:00 - [46] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Risk vs. reward. ^ this OP, try running some low-sec or null-sec sites. there's a huge difference. eve online original intro
Nalelmir Ahashion Viziam Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.12.05 13:19:00 - [47] - Quote Ursula Thrace wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: Risk vs. reward. ^ this OP, try running some low-sec or null-sec sites. there's a huge difference. I'll try those once I'll get bit more skills also read I should use cov-ops on lower security. well guys as I see lots of people here had great experience I'll give it a week and test the results again. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Ptraci 3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel 1431	Posted - 2013.12.05 14:33:00 - [48] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: CCP also doesn't takes a hint that a majority of players eventually understand that they're being forced to play a certain way and thus they leave hisec through the unsub door. That's your problem see, because you are the minority no the majority. CCP is doing just fine. Membership is steadily increasing. And "encouragement" is not forcing. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Ptraci 3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel 1431	Posted - 2013.12.05 14:34:00 - [49] - Quote Silvetica Dian wrote: . i made billions total from high sec sites. Funny, I can make billions running one null sec site. Where did you think all those machariel, rattlesnake and other fancy ship blueprints came from?
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3590	Posted - 2013.12.05 14:36:00 - [50] - Quote Ptraci wrote: Silvetica Dian wrote: . i made billions total from high sec sites. Funny, I can make billions running one null sec site. Where did you think all those machariel, rattlesnake and other fancy ship blueprints came from? Pirate LP stores.
BoBoZoBo Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 354	Posted - 2013.12.05 15:07:00 - [51] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: So why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks. For the same reason that any previously explored place with a large established and governed population has fewer fresh opportunities for fortune and fame that the unexplored wild lands hold. Think the wild west and the gold rush, or the silk and spice trade or the new worlds trades. Or ANYTHING in history that shows perfect examples of why this happens. TL:DR - You don't get fortune and fame from exploring the same place everyone has. Grow some balls, leave your blanket at home and go make is the EVE way. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
MatrixSkye Mk2 Republic University Minmatar Republic 636	Posted - 2013.12.05 15:49:00 - [52] - Quote Ptraci wrote: High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. Basically, no it isn't. That's just what the parrots love to spout because unless you're playing mywayGäó you're doinitwrongGäó.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 12754	Posted - 2013.12.05 15:53:00 - [53] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: as I'm less then a year in eve I try new activities from time to time. at any rate tried some exploration lately and it's lots of fun.. roaming around the universe and finding stuf etc... but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise. Press F10. See all those systems that aren't in nice, safe, CONCORD-protected space? The good exploration stuff is in there. 1 Kings 12:11
Harrison Tato Outward Explorations 10	Posted - 2013.12.05 16:33:00 - [54] - Quote I initially started playing to do Exploration. I was pretty stoked until I realized that there isn't real exploration in the game, just finding sites and looting them. It wasn't like you were going to discover unique alien artifacts or gates to hidden parts of space or anything. I spent about 40 hours in null over a couple of days running data and relic sites in my Helios and only came out with 20 million ISK worth of stuff that was pretty much the same stuff I get in high-sec. My best find so far, a Medium Blood Control Tower BPC, I found in .5 high-sec lol. If there is more than you in local you can also count on an OCD player cloaked up in a T3 and peeing into a Coke bottle, praying that you try to hack that site :) So to sum it up, you need to spend days at a time in low trying to run data and relic sites before anyone else comes into local in order to find stuff that sells for the same amount or less than stuff you find in high-sec data and relic sites. Thank the maker I found Bomber's Bar where I can beat the crap out of people with 20 other Stealth Bombers like CCP wants you doing. I am not even sure why they mention exploration when they want you out mugging infants.
Cygnet Lythanea World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction 316	Posted - 2013.12.05 16:36:00 - [55] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Press F10. See all those systems that aren't in nice, safe, CONCORD-protected space? The good exploration stuff is in there. Not really. You have to go out where major alliances use thier magic alliance only sov upgrades before you can get the good stuff. The Most Interesting Player In Eve.
War Kitten Panda McLegion xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 4878	Posted - 2013.12.05 16:42:00 - [56] - Quote You're never going to discover the fountain of youth or a lost continent if you only explore the forests in national parks. Get out of hisec if you want real exploration. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
Demica Diaz The Scope Gallente Federation 87	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:11:00 - [57] - Quote High sec is for newbies and beginner explorers to try out profession in T1 ships fitted with T1 modules. Its easy, fast and simple. Once novice explorer gets his skills up and ready to hit low sec in his T2 Covops he should go there asap. In time if player continues to like profession he will train T3 and with that he can go to null sec to do exploration. I understand that you can do null in T2 covops but I am talking about minimum risk factor. Rewards will scale as you go. You dont need 100 million to fit your high sec T1 exploration frig. Thus, low reward, as it should be.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 3593	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:36:00 - [58] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: Ptraci wrote: High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. Basically, no it isn't. That's just what the parrots love to spout because unless you're playing mywayGäó you're doinitwrongGäó. I imagine the people who love to hide behind this (the idea that anyone cares how they play) standing on a soccer pitch refusing to kick a soccer ball with their feet because they "refuse to play the game ur way"....
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17632	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:42:00 - [59] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: Ptraci wrote: High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. Basically, no it isn't. Basically, yes it is, because that was the design paradigm when exploration distribution was determined. Thus highsec gets the newbie-level exploration sites. This makes it very easy once you get your skills up, so what good stuff there is to find gets decimated quickly by over-skilled characters mass-completing everything in sight. It has nothing to do with how people play or what people spout about what others are supposedly spouting; it has to do with design history. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Republic University Minmatar Republic 636	Posted - 2013.12.05 19:04:00 - [60] - Quote Tippia wrote: Basically, yes it is, because that was the design paradigm when exploration distribution was determined. No it isn't. The "design paradigm" revolves around the concept of risk vs. reward, not how new or experienced a player is. Older players have always been given the option to choose between levels of risk and thus, levels of rewards. And some choose the lower threshold. This also applies to mining, missioning, and pretty much any profession one chooses to do in safer space (i.e. hi sec). And flipping the coin, bar the first few days, new players can also get their start right from the go in 0.0 or lo sec. Because again, it has very little to do with "newbies" vs. experienced players and more to do with how much risk are you willing to take.

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