so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.

as I'm less then a year in eve I try new activities from time to time. at any rate tried some exploration lately and it's lots of fun.. roaming around the universe and finding stuf etc...

but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise.

First we got anomalies which are around L1 mission without stnadings or LP.

then we got combat sites which are about L2 or something like that without LP or standings.

both of those are pretty annoying as the drops sucks big time best thing I got was 10 mil laser turret and that's about it.

I was very excited when I got my first data and archaeology sites but god they are bad....
the hacking mini game is nice but truly only way to fail it is on purpose, then some cans sprays around and if you had cargo scanner before you at least knows what and try to get first but well... each one of those netted me less then 300 k :X

even while I was mining in 1.0 with venture and 24 h mining skills I made more isk then that and without the hassle of scanning, also while on belts mining I get officer rat once in a while which sometimes drops implants and other goodies worth 100s of millions all while having fun pooling rocks easily.
Security and other missions are easy enough on high sec and you get LP + Standings which both are rewards in their own.
Trading will net a lot lot lot more then exploration.

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ?

You would think that people would be able to take the hint. It's so bad because CCP doesn't want you to stay in highsec grinding forever. It's their way of encouraging you to explore, take risks, and reap greater rewards for those risks. High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. So every once in a while, high sec rewards (especially mission rewards) are nerfed to try to discourage endless virtually risk free mission farming.

Take a chance! You might like it. EvE is a multi-player game and you will need to interact with others and make friends if you want to survive outside of high sec. That's the whole point.

CCP want you to go to low/null and become someone's PvP content because they don't want to add content themselves.

You would think that people would be able to take the hint. It's so bad because CCP doesn't want you to stay in highsec grinding forever. It's their way of encouraging you to explore, take risks, and reap greater rewards for those risks. High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. So every once in a while, high sec rewards (especially mission rewards) are nerfed to try to discourage endless virtually risk free mission farming.

Take a chance! You might like it. EvE is a multi-player game and you will need to interact with others and make friends if you want to survive outside of high sec. That's the whole point.

CCP also doesn't takes a hint that a majority of players eventually understand that they're being forced to play a certain way and thus they leave hisec through the unsub door.

CCP also doesn't takes a hint that a majority of players eventually understand that they're being forced to play a certain way and thus they leave hisec through the unsub door.

The repeated emphasis on "in High Sec" in OP' message makes it clear enough that's it's a comparison between HighSec and LowSec/Null exploration.
Either that, or OP is not clear enough. You'll notice that basically everyone, either those supporting OP or those contradicting him, understood it that way.

The same answers will be given anyway : risk / reward is the reason. Mining can earn you some cash in HighSec, but it's boring as hell, and it hardly is a "game" (though I acknowledge some people are having fun with it - which is fine).
And mining simply can't be compared to exploration, as it's the cornerstone of production in Eve.

guys please stop comparing high to low and null this is not the topic here!

I'm asking about exploration vs other activities in highsec!

For ages I made 65m/hr doing serpentis highsec exploration. I also made about 60m/hr when I was blitzing missions with a dominix.

if you do guristas highsec exploration you can beat 100m, and if I blitzed for sisters at their current conversion rate, I'd probably be near on 100m/hr in a dominix. About the only way you'll do better than those solo is mach in missions or by running incursions.


exploration is mostly about the sigs you discard, so that you get more time to find and do the ones with the likelyhood of valuable drops. and its also about how long you've been doing it to even out the randomness. It is a skinnerbox task after all.

I tried exploration sites of all kinds for about 3-4 days and about 20 hours in total I think.

I did it in amarr space on domain and Kador regions in 0.5 and 0.6 regions as well..

never I had more valuable drop then the random 10 mil turret drop I got.

might be the site type? blood raiders and sansha sites have less chance to drop anything which worth the time?

TLDR: Learn how to EVE. The more you learn about the game, the less you are worried about what security space you are in. If you can't be bothered, go back to WOW. WOW already caters to the "I want an easy, social game" audience.

if you finished to stroke your e-peen then I'll point you out I am not comparing low or null activities but the fact that most of the exploration sites I encountered on high sec including DED 3\10 and 4\10 had ridiculous drops and loot....
Make sense to think that an encounter which I needed to scan for and find in hidden corner of the system will net something which is at least about the same as L1 or something but hell on data site I got like 200 isk :X on relic site I got 5,000 isk and both of those I cargo scanned and picked about 4-5 cans cherry picking.

so the point is not to nerf or boost rewards or do any change at all as I don't really care I got other ways to make isk I just enjoy the experience my problem is I'm puzzled at this weird small value drops at first place..



@ Weeesearch so basicly you say that the DED rated sites are average value and the un rated sites are the more profitable ones that I should pursue?

what your thoughts about data and archaeology sites? you think they are worth the time?

@ Bloodmyst Ranwar

I'll explain... the title is just one part of a thread.. you should read the official post and preferably the entire topic before you post.

have a nice day sir.

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? .

but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise.



both of those are pretty annoying as the drops sucks big time best thing I got was 10 mil laser turret and that's about it.

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.

Risk vs. reward.

^ this

OP, try running some low-sec or null-sec sites. there's a huge difference.

CCP also doesn't takes a hint that a majority of players eventually understand that they're being forced to play a certain way and thus they leave hisec through the unsub door.

. i made billions total from high sec sites.

Funny, I can make billions running one null sec site. Where did you think all those machariel, rattlesnake and other fancy ship blueprints came from?

So why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.

High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it.

as I'm less then a year in eve I try new activities from time to time. at any rate tried some exploration lately and it's lots of fun.. roaming around the universe and finding stuf etc...

but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise.

Press F10.

See all those systems that aren't in nice, safe, CONCORD-protected space?

The good exploration stuff is in there.

Basically, no it isn't. That's just what the parrots love to spout because unless you're playing mywayGäó you're doinitwrongGäó.

Basically, no it isn't.

Basically, yes it is, because that was the design paradigm when exploration distribution was determined.

No it isn't. The "design paradigm" revolves around the concept of risk vs. reward

GǪand the idea was that the newbie-level content was in highsec

and once you got better, you'd move to more difficult and more rewarding content in other areas.

And this is now very different from the claim I originally addressed, which was "high sec is basically a starter area". Again, no it isn't, no matter how much you claim it is. At no point has CCP ever stated that hi sec is intended to be a "starter area" for new players. There are "starter" systems in hi sec, but that does not make hi sec a starter area.


You could if you chose to. My point is you don't have to.

And this is now very different from the claim I originally addressed, which was "high sec is basically a starter area".

You could if you wanted to. My point is you don't have to.

Saying that it is the area for newbie-level content is not very different from saying that it's a starter area. After all, that's where the newbie-level content belongs.

In fact it is very different. Claiming that hi sec is a "starter area abused by players who refuse to leave it" is very different from stating that starter systems are found in hi sec.

Bottom line is hi sec is

Not really. You have to go out where major alliances use thier magic alliance only sov upgrades before you can get the good stuff.

In fact it is very different. Claiming that hi sec is a "starter area abused by players who refuse to leave it" is very different from stating that starter systems are found in hi sec. Usually, the former is used as an antagonistic reprimand to shame and insult hi sec players;

I'll do that nasty evil thing I do and cut you off right there. You see what you said there? GÇ£IsGÇ¥? That's the problem: you're using the wrong tense.

...hi sec iswas an area where players with different levels of experience find may have found a home. This is of course, no longer the case.

GǪand the idea was that the newbie-level content was in highsec, and once you got better, you'd move to more difficult and more rewarding content in other areas. The risk in question wasn't so much from players GÇö since that was much the same no matter where you went GÇö but from the opposition in the sites and if you wanted something above newbie level, you'd have to go to the non-newbie-level areas of the game. That same design paradigm has survived to this day as far as exploration goes.

So yes, yes it is. If you don't like that design, you should go back to 2003 and tell CCP so. Conversely, if you want it to be a risk-reward kind of thing that doesn't take assumed skill levels into consideration, then you could also tell them to reduce the rewards from those highsec sites since a lot has happened to (massively) reduce the risks involved.

The idea that hisec must be restricted to being a "newbie area" is bad and wrong and should be put in a bag and drowned like a litter of unwanted inbred puppies.

Better?

GǪwhich no-one has said.

You would think that people would be able to take the hint. It's so bad because CCP doesn't want you to stay in highsec grinding forever. It's their way of encouraging you to explore, take risks, and reap greater rewards for those risks. High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. So every once in a while, high sec rewards (especially mission rewards) are nerfed to try to discourage endless virtually risk free mission farming.

Weird

Yes, it's quite weird that you quote that section since it does not mention anything about starter systems being found in highsec.

Or, well, it's weird presuming that you were trying to provide some kind of counter to what I said since it doesn't really do that. If you were trying to do something else, it'sGǪ actually, still weird since then it's just some random quote with no connection or explanation for why it's being brought up.

Sure. But again, the point is the past as an explanation of what is, rather than the present as a reason for what should change.

No, because now it's either a bit self-contradictory or just plain inaccurate. And you understand why highsec is full of starter-level content, then?

Perhaps I misunderstood what "GǪwhich no-one has said." meant in the post I quoted above. Because if that was referring to the text in the post you quoted, then yes, someone has said that.

This is fairly pointless. You have a tendency of denying your initial assertions or convoluting them with irrelevant responses to the point where you're no longer even defending your original assertion, but rather moving the goal posts around at will :\.

GǪand you have good examples of this?

I'm referring to the clause immediately preceding it about how starter systems are found in highsec.

Saying that it is the area for newbie-level content is not very different from saying that it's a starter area. After all, that's where the newbie-level content belongs.

This is what you said:

GǪwhich, again, says nothing about starter systems being in highsec or making any inferences from this fact.

And this is now very different from the claim I originally addressed, which was "high sec is basically a starter area". Again, no it isn't, no matter how much you claim it is. At no point has CCP ever stated that hi sec is intended to be a "starter area" for new players. There are "starter" systems in hi sec, but by no means does that make hi sec a starter area.

The idea that hisec must be restricted to being a "newbie area" is bad and wrong and should be put in a bag and drowned like a litter of unwanted inbred puppies.

It's extremley fruistrating seeing this thread going into the old "high sec vs otherSec" areas.

I opened this topic with one thought in mind and it was explortion rewards in high sec vs other high sec activities.

@Tippia

so basicly there is good reward and such on high sec but due to the sheer easyness of it those sites are farmed out quickly and in order to get those I need to catach them fast and before everyone else. right?

So, you complain that the pennies thrown at you are not the gold coins the people around you are scooping by the handful. Who is to blame for that? Every time I see a hisec player complain about inflation or low price of salvage a wry grin spreads across my face.

You want risk free isk? You reap what you sow.

Once upon a time I remember seeing a picture explaining eve sec status.

Please tell me where in high sec you will see interceptors shotgunning anoms.

"Relative safety" may be high in certain areas or at certain times, but it is just that, relative. Compared to null, yes, hisec is "relatively" safer.

Logic ************. Do you speak it?

Edit: the only 'protection' one pays for in null is for infrastructure. Thinking you are paying for your overlords to keep you safer than hisec is exactly what an uninformed hisec dweller would think normal.

Really?

Wow, FA and MC and RED and IRON covering my ass at various points back in the day when I was blue to them, and goonswarms hot pursuit of me on several more recent occasions as a non blue intruding in their sov must have been my ******* imagination.

(say what you will about goons, they are generally attentive to intruders).

Either that or your alliance clearly sucks ass and your blues are not getting their monies worth.

In my case, and perhaps this is an anomaly, I've been killed far more often in high sec than null, despite frequently running back and forth between them.

It's extremley fruistrating seeing this thread going into the old "high sec vs otherSec" areas.

I opened this topic with one thought in mind and it was explortion rewards in high sec vs other high sec activities.

And what did you expect?

You want better exploration rewards. There are places with much, much better exploration rewards already in the game. You change your playstyle and go find them. Don't expect them to change the game for you, and don't expect all of us to change to suit you. High sec should be nerfed more, in my opinion. There's far too much to do there.

It's extremley fruistrating seeing this thread going into the old "high sec vs otherSec" areas.

I opened this topic with one thought in mind and it was explortion rewards in high sec vs other high sec activities.


o7

The idea that hisec must be restricted to being a "newbie area" is bad and wrong and should be put in a bag and drowned like a litter of unwanted inbred puppies.

You would think that people would be able to take the hint. It's so bad because CCP doesn't want you to stay in highsec grinding forever. It's their way of encouraging you to explore, take risks, and reap greater rewards for those risks. High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. So every once in a while, high sec rewards (especially mission rewards) are nerfed to try to discourage endless virtually risk free mission farming.

Take a chance! You might like it. EvE is a multi-player game and you will need to interact with others and make friends if you want to survive outside of high sec. That's the whole point.

The original question has been addressed to its fullest extent.

We have now turned our attention to exposing entitled carebears who can't even be arsed to tank their barge to handle a battleship rat.

only difference between high sec and others is twofold....
1. on high sec you get concord response for aggression so you got to know how to do it right.
2. new players starts inside high sec on academy stations, if new players would have started in neutral zone disconnected from high sec and then had to choose where to go from there you wouldn't think it's newbie zone.

yes, I prefer high sec but

The original question has been addressed to its fullest extent.

We have now turned our attention to exposing entitled carebears who can't even be arsed to tank their barge to handle a battleship rat.

totally not the issue here yet the keep ignoring main post and main theme of this thread

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.

High security space is like a urine-infested kiddy pool. It's ultimately up to you whether to wallow there soaking up the electrolytes and diseases of every idiot thrashing around or chance the sharks and jellyfish for a proper swim.

Did I mention you're immortal? The only thing you lose can be easily acquired, and level of risk decided on before undocking.

But for some reason you ignore the wonderful open ocean.

You want risk free isk? You reap what you sow.

The only 'protection' one pays for in null is for infrastructure. Thinking you are paying for your overlords to keep you safer than hisec is exactly what an uninformed hisec dweller would think normal.



Ok, I'm fine with your little fantasy of the pvping overlords that are there to protect their serfs from any and all harm.

I don't think it's any coincidence that 10 minutes after posting this I was faced with (a) risk/reward decision ...When would that ever happen in hisec?

. You, on the other hand, what's your experience with nullsec? Which alliances have you been in, which regions have you lived in, etc?

I undock in hi-sec to run a mission. Whatever 'risk' there is of other players interfering is entirely decided by me. Don't want to get ganked? Don't fit pimp. Don't want to be ninja'd? Don't shoot back. Don't want to be war-dec'd? Hop corp.).

I have ratted in the same vindicator for two years through my good planning and decision making, not the crutch of hisec mechanics. Or the magical 'safety field' that you think nullsec power blocs present.

A good pilot will make the escape, a good pilot will make the tackle. If both pilots are good then things get interesting.

I don't think it's any coincidence that 10 minutes after posting this I was faced with the risk/reward decision "do I warp off with this neutral in local who wasn't reported in intel" I chose to leave my 10mil worth of drones behind, and it turned out to be the right decision, since he was in a crow. When would that ever happen in hisec?

the hacking mini game is nice but truly only way to fail it is on purpose, then some cans sprays around and if you had cargo scanner before you at least knows what and try to get first but well...

.....

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ?

Nabbed about 350m isk in sansha space last night, several DED sites and various escelations,
Had to finish an escelation in low, but it doesnt seem that bad at all.

But the problem with Exploration is the same thing that plagues ECm and such.

Rng is a ****** mechanic ----> Exploration is rng

IF its the old risk vs reward argument, then increase the risk of some highsec sites, add level 4 equivalent sites that drop better loot. Just cause its in high sec dosnt mean it should be easy, it means the difficulties should be different, trading pvp for pve

Because according to the pro nullsec side, there is no risk to anything but other players and that PvP magically does not happen in high sec.

Name one isk fountain in hisec that cannot be accessed with zero risk. Just one, I dare you.

Because according to the pro nullsec side, there is no risk to anything but other players and that PvP magically does not happen in high sec.

The only risks one takes in hisec are voluntary and 100% avoidable. Without exception.

as I'm less then a year in eve I try new activities from time to time. at any rate tried some exploration lately and it's lots of fun.. roaming around the universe and finding stuf etc...

but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise.

First we got anomalies which are around L1 mission without stnadings or LP.

then we got combat sites which are about L2 or something like that without LP or standings.

both of those are pretty annoying as the drops sucks big time best thing I got was 10 mil laser turret and that's about it.

I was very excited when I got my first data and archaeology sites but god they are bad....
the hacking mini game is nice but truly only way to fail it is on purpose, then some cans sprays around and if you had cargo scanner before you at least knows what and try to get first but well... each one of those netted me less then 300 k :X

even while I was mining in 1.0 with venture and 24 h mining skills I made more isk then that and without the hassle of scanning, also while on belts mining I get officer rat once in a while which sometimes drops implants and other goodies worth 100s of millions all while having fun pooling rocks easily.
Security and other missions are easy enough on high sec and you get LP + Standings which both are rewards in their own.
Trading will net a lot lot lot more then exploration.

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.

Avoid an inty landing on you in 5 seconds when your align time is 8.

I could go on, but I already have, and you clearly didn't bother trying to understand that either so I will stop here, at the apparent hard limit of hisec dweller reasoning.

Risk vs. reward.

as I'm less then a year in eve I try new activities from time to time. at any rate tried some exploration lately and it's lots of fun.. roaming around the universe and finding stuf etc...

but... High sec exploration is plain bad.. just horrible reward wise.

First we got anomalies which are around L1 mission without stnadings or LP.

then we got combat sites which are about L2 or something like that without LP or standings.

both of those are pretty annoying as the drops sucks big time best thing I got was 10 mil laser turret and that's about it.

I was very excited when I got my first data and archaeology sites but god they are bad....
the hacking mini game is nice but truly only way to fail it is on purpose, then some cans sprays around and if you had cargo scanner before you at least knows what and try to get first but well... each one of those netted me less then 300 k :X

even while I was mining in 1.0 with venture and 24 h mining skills I made more isk then that and without the hassle of scanning, also while on belts mining I get officer rat once in a while which sometimes drops implants and other goodies worth 100s of millions all while having fun pooling rocks easily.
Security and other missions are easy enough on high sec and you get LP + Standings which both are rewards in their own.
Trading will net a lot lot lot more then exploration.

so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.

Most people in this thread are just lazily repeating tired platitudes and not replying to the actual question.

The question is not 'why are high-sec exploration rewards low in comparison to low and null sec' but 'why are high-sec exploration rewards low in comparison to other high-sec activities'.

Banging the risk/reward drum doesn't answer this one (although a few of the replies have been more enlightening).

Hmm... let me try something... I see an unknown in system and reach ALL THE WAY OVER to my covert ops cloak hotkey, and push it. Then align to a safe spot (you may have heard of these) and warp to it. While cloaked. Makes it hard for the infy to 'land on you' unless you have some astonishingly bad luck. Because it's gonna take him a second to scan down either your ship or the site you're in.

Because optimal ratting setups have covops cloaks.

Three interceptors would never jump into system at the same time and shotgun the three hubs.

Either that or your idea of optimal ratting is 50m/hour in which case go to hi-sec you will make more for less risk

Honestly, who the hell fits a covops cloak to make isk?