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Kharak'khan
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:27:00 -
[31]
Too Be honest lack of BMs would help my pirate work no end with all the spoons on that initial few travels falling helplessly out of warp 5-15 km from the gate :).
Should allow me to cook them in plenty of time whilst the sentries warm up my shields.
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:30:00 -
[32]
I think what a lot of you are missing is that you are seeing this as a grinding oportunity.
WHY THE HELL would you go around exploreing gates and stations just for auto bookmarks. Most of which you'll never use. The idea is if you spend time in that region, you'll get them automatically.
You people just want to buy them, have them in and forget about them.
How long did it take most of you who actually MADE your own book marks. Days? Weeks? Months?
the idea of the auto book mark is that you wouldn't NEED to do that. becuase normal everyday movement would make them for you automatically.
if you stay in Caldari Space for example. After a week and a half of normal mission running/tradeing/whatever, you'd have book marks to all the places you've been aand will most likely go to in everyday operation.
If you spend all your time in your Corp/Alliance's 0.0 area, then you'd automatically build them up there.
If you've moved from Caldari space to your corps/alliance's 0.0 space, why would you need to keep a few thousand bookmarks that you'll only ever use maybe once a week?
The whole idea of this is to cut down on the number of useless bookmarks. So that you don't have to activly manage them. They manage themselves. If you move your base of operations to another system, with in a day you'll have all the bookmarks you'll need just from normal travel.
Some of you folks seem to see this as an attack on you personally for some reason. this is a way to improve how the bookmarks are used. The idea is to cut down on book marks in the system by 75% or more.
Sheesh. Some of you see this idea and just automatically think of actually spending time building these book marks up. But the idea is to have it automatically happen.
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Q: Wheres the Search button on the forums?
A: There isn't one. go here. www.eve-search.com
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Xelios
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:31:00 -
[33]
Bookmarks are already the perfect solution to the travel problem, all that needs to be addressed is the lag they create.
Signature removed. -Zhuge ([email protected])
Woot.
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Sable Schroedinger
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:32:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Kharak'khan
Yeah thats it, A carebear might not care ok AFK hauling or there mining missions slowed down, but have you ever tried running from Obe to Akkio without instas, You can slowboat it in somethign fast but in a BS etc it will take an age!
so. if insta's where removed, the amount of people that would travel would shrink, markets would be revitalised because of less mobility lessening supply, prices would rise, piracy would become more viable, trading more interesting, "home turf" would become a more valuable aspect, wars would take on more meaning...
this solution was bad again, because..?
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Nothing is as cruel as the righteousness of innocents |
Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 04/03/2006 20:26:53
So to avoid snipers on one gate I need to warp to it HOW many times?
Heh. Realistic suggestions, plz.
(And one per day? So I need to spend 2 weeks running arround an area like a rabbit before I can realistically go out with the gang? Woot, not)
If you go to an area you've never been in, why would you have a book mark for it. If this gate camp/snipers are at a gate jump you go through normally, once built up you'll have that bookmark.
if it's one you've never been to I don't see the problem. Do you have all of the game bookmarked? Or just the region you play in?
Seriously, what is the problem you see. If you go there say 10 times in one week, you are set. if you don't, then it's an area that you don't go to, so whats the point of haveing a bookmark for it.
How many regions of bookmarks do you have anyways? And how many do you use on a daily basis. Hell, how many have you used in a week.
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Q: Wheres the Search button on the forums?
A: There isn't one. go here. www.eve-search.com
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BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:50:00 -
[36]
Thanks Eternal Fury & Sable Schroedinger, Youve put it far more eloquently than I could have.
Yes Ive posted in both forums cause I want the idea out there. Bookmarks arent very realistic there hard to manage & their a pain in the ass. CCP obviously have trouble with BM's or they wouldnt lag the system out, take 10 minutes to copy a half dozen or be exploitable in creating lag. Ive no idea why so many people react so badly to the idea of a change.
Gate ganking tossers can still gate gank. All that changes is you dont need to handle hundreds of BMs & you dont get a free ride across the galaxy 0.0 becomes a place you have to frequent to travel safely in or you need to use a gang whos traveled their before.
BMs could still actually be used to visit new areas but would become a liability after frequent visits.
Additionally it benefits people who actually travel to places rather than BM leeching gimps.
Originally by: Market Scanner
Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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RandyPan
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:50:00 -
[37]
Excuse me if what I'm about to say is a dumb idea or old news cos I aint been playin very long:
I personally use bookmarks a lot. What I thought would be a better idea is maybe an item that u have to stick in a slot that deteriorates per jump combined with maybe a skill that makes it better, for example, train the skill to level 1, activate ur thingy and it'll jump u to 12k instead of 15, train to 2 and it'll jump u to 9. wotever. and if u dont activate it then u just jump normal??
Like i say, scuse me if its a dumb / old idea!
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Unknown Subject
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Posted - 2006.03.04 21:00:00 -
[38]
remove the option to copy and trade bookmarks. THATS IT!
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Blake
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Posted - 2006.03.05 10:40:00 -
[39]
Are we STILL talking about bookmark's?
Look, those that want change WANT change because they can't gank easily and want their prey on a plate it's as simple as that, and anyone (typically low life scum-bag pirate type's) that disagree do so because it suits their ends.
Yes, they cause a little lag, yes you have to re-folderise them if you reinstall, but every suggestion for change comes about because gankers want easier kills it's that simple - any argument to the contrary is utter B**locks and you know it is.
It makes me laugh how ganker's under the name of "Improving game play" try and dress up their reasons for making changes to the way BM's work - it really is hillarious just reading your silly arguments.
Look, now matter what you think, BM's have been in this game for years and everybody lives with them and uses them to good effect to; run your stupid blockades and transport goods to the far end of the universe for the purposes of improving trade.
If you don't like the way they work then adapt, christ knows there's much you can do to counter them and really that's what this is all about, it's buggerall to do with improving game play, reducing server side lag - give me a break.
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
Blake
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bumcheekcity
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Posted - 2006.03.05 10:48:00 -
[40]
To be honest, I just say give us a 0km 'Warp To' option, and let pirates set up warp scrambling bubble thingys in .4 and below. You've already been given Interdictors, ffs :P
It would make the ship kinda useful, too.
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bumcheekcity
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Del369
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Posted - 2006.03.05 10:51:00 -
[41]
I dont think gate gankers need anything made easier for them, in any way shape or form.
I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!!] |
Tripp Orsam
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:17:00 -
[42]
Originally by: babyblue
Don't start your argument by stating your opinion as a general fact. Most people like and use bookmarks.
not trying to start any arguments here but... most people like and use drugs / cigarettes / alcohol, does that mean they are good?
There is almost always a GOOD solution for any problem, and i bleive this is also the case for bookmarks, if you have 2 parties arguing over if something should change or not just meet in the middle, change it so it either benefits OR penalizes both parties equally. I do think that bookmarks will be removed one day but not until ccp can find a solution that is FAIR for both the traveller and the gate camper.
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EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage. |
Metternich Stele
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:20:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Amerrus Eka
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Originally by: Ishen Villone
This would create many times the server load than just the bookmarks themselves...
How? The serve already keeps track of all the systems you've ever visited....it's a dispay option in the map.
Lag would be created because it would create much more traffic:
Here's what us haulers would do: hop in a shuttle, set waypoints to all corners of the region visiting every single system 15 times, putting on the autopilot and going to sleep. Next morning I'd have a full set of instas (well, after a few nights if I get ganked).
Ah but if you did it on a per-ship as opposed to per-character basis you avoid this. You could then make the ability tradeable when the ship goes to market for an interesting secondary ship market 
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Alex Tantra
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:23:00 -
[44]
Jump Disruptors!
Requiring high skills, i.e. EW V, Prop Jamming V, Electronics V
To be honest there's no need for any change, and those could be a bit overpowered. Depends on how much you value safety.
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Otakhar LesGaZ
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:31:00 -
[45]
im not for it but can maybe just randomly change gate position a few km every days after DT.
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MissileRus
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:41:00 -
[46]
Edited by: MissileRus on 05/03/2006 11:44:10
like the idea, no new mods to gimp everyones ships etc.
but i dont see how that solves the issue with gate/station instas, they still remain unless they make it so when you warp to a bm your range is random as they talked about, so theres no way to warp to an object 0m.
make a CCP dev comment on this if they could look into it, as the features are already there basicly.
best idea yet dont requir more mods, dont require lots of coding, the more u use the system the more you get rewarded and the closer you can warp to gates.
usage = reward = nice 
edit: obviously the decay times and how long it takes to get you closer to the gate would be desided by CCP and tested so saying stuff like "why a 15 day decay?!?!" "i dont want to visit systems forever just to keep snipers away from me" etc is irelevant.
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Otakhar LesGaZ
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:44:00 -
[47]
or just a timer after warp
like 5 or 10 sec before behing able to jump.
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Brutor Shaun
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Posted - 2006.03.05 12:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Uggster
Originally by: Brutor Shaun
Some people have thousands of bookmarks bought in sets, most of which they will never use. I think a majority of people only live and operate within about 15-20 jumps of their chosen home, and so it would be alot less info to be saved.
Says the man that has never done 150+ jumps a night through enermy territory on ops. 
Says the man who apparently doesn't have a life outside of Eve. As I said originally....."a majority of people".
LEAVE MY SIG ALONE!!! |
Solloeb
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Posted - 2006.03.05 12:05:00 -
[49]
All i can think of is the poor sods who have bought bm's in the past if this was implimented
really and truly bms are to intigrated into the eve gameplay these days that changing them would bug more people then help them
Ok you get rid of instas, safespots, sniperspots, and so on
The ammount of people who have these things is almost every person in eve now changing that would clutter up the system people have created for them selves or "bought" from others who also have worked hard to get it going
When removing these key items you change the gameplay consideraly maby for the better maby for the worst who knows
Its a good idea but like many good idea's flawed just like the bookmark system :)
If this was taken into account the day they created eve it might have been better but nothing is perfect
"You cannot have the sweet with out the sour"
Instead of removing the bookmark system what about working on a way to improve it a little ? :)
Solloeb's your friend and dont forget that kids give him your cookies today ! |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2006.03.05 12:07:00 -
[50]
I have a solution too; remove instajumps and maybe reduce the gate warp-in range a bit.
That way slow ships don't storm into the neighboring region in under 10 minutes, and fast ships finally get the advantage when going on raids and expeditions. Cause you know, thats why fast ships aren't as strong as slow ones.
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2006.03.05 12:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Viceroy
I have a solution too; remove instajumps and maybe reduce the gate warp-in range a bit.
That way slow ships don't storm into the neighboring region in under 10 minutes, and fast ships finally get the advantage when going on raids and expeditions. Cause you know, thats why fast ships aren't as strong as slow ones.
sounds reasonable, I'm all for it.
Greetings Grim |
Blake
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Posted - 2006.03.05 18:14:00 -
[52]
I wonder, how can it be that the majority lobbying for change to the current arrangements all carry negative sec ratings??
Odd that isn't it.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2006.03.05 18:59:00 -
[53]
As someone who regularly flys solo in a battleship through hostile space without instajumps i say, remove them completely.
Thats one problem fixed.
To compensate for gate campers, ccp should do what it should have done ages ago, split sensor boosters and tracking enhancers. So that extra locking rangs means longer locking time and vice versa, longer optimal range means less tracking. That way snipers won't be able to lock you before you reach the gate anyway or they will need to stay close range and be vulnerable to pirate hunters.
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babyblue
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Posted - 2006.03.05 19:07:00 -
[54]
Edited by: babyblue on 05/03/2006 19:08:27
Originally by: Tripp Orsam
not trying to start any arguments here but... most people like and use drugs / cigarettes / alcohol, does that mean they are good?
There is almost always a GOOD solution for any problem, and i bleive this is also the case for bookmarks, if you have 2 parties arguing over if something should change or not just meet in the middle, change it so it either benefits OR penalizes both parties equally. I do think that bookmarks will be removed one day but not until ccp can find a solution that is FAIR for both the traveller and the gate camper.
By argument, I mean your premise. Drugs, cigarettes and alcohol are not the same as an insta-bookmark in an MMORPG although I would quite like a bookmark to just outside the pub.
Bookmarks are fair. They allow travellers to go places more quickly, rather than suffer the unbelievable tedium that is going places in Eve. Warp bubbles are in game for a reason. They solve your problem on the warp-in. On the warp out it's all down to inertia.
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Kim Chee
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Posted - 2006.03.05 19:30:00 -
[55]
The bookmarks themselves are not the problem. COPYING the bookmarks is what causes so much database lag. Eliminate the ability to copy bookmarks, and you eliminate 95% of the lag involved.
Why do people copy bookmarks anyways? Well, the main reason is to get INSTA's. Occasionally, someone finds a hidden place, or a POS, or something they want to remember and perhaps share with corpmates.
So, once you've removed bookmark copying, the only way to share them is a small number at a time, cut and pasted into eve-mail... fine, no lag there.
But people will still want INSTA's, even though the devs don't like them. We know the devs have code (it was on the test server a while back) to allow you to warp right to an object (or a bookmark for that matter). So allowing people to choose smaller numbers than 15km is already feasable.
Why not allow smaller numbers based on skills we already have? Right now, anyone can warp to within 15km of any object or bookmark. Let Navigation shave 500m per level, Warp Drive Operation another 1km per level, and perhaps Acceleration Control another 1km per level. That gives you a potential accuracy of warping directly within 2.5km of anything, anywhere. Yes, you could make it closer, but again... the devs don't really like INSTA's. They want at least a small window of vulnerability, otherwise we'd still have MWD's on industrial ships. :)
Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion.
Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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Consrul
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Posted - 2006.03.05 19:41:00 -
[56]
let us warp to coordinates..easier fix imo
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Jonathan Wark
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Posted - 2006.03.05 19:43:00 -
[57]
Removal of Instas through systems wonÆt happen for one big reason. CCP wantÆs to move people out into lower Sec space. They are not going to make it less appealing for people to abandon high sec.
Right or wrong the reason we still have them has more to do with CCPÆs desires than those of the players.
Quote of the day [2005.10.29 04:39:12 ] Nikolai Nuvolari > [I'm sure there are some perfectly non-sadistic cannibals] |
BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.03.11 13:20:00 -
[58]
I meant every warp to point in that system becomes a 15km - visits in kms point.
Avon, this would make regular routes gank proof & new routes dangerous adventures.
I agree whole heartedley about the tracking & acquistion. long range fast acquistion is just ludicrous.
I also liked the the interdictor comments.
Kim Chee, I agree to an extent but skills reducing the warp distance would make every jump pinpoint accurate. This way only systems you were familiar with give you a benefit.
Originally by: Market Scanner
Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Shinnen
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Posted - 2006.03.11 14:11:00 -
[59]
i think its fine atm
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A Selfdestruct Proposal
My sig is good now?-Shinnen |
BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.03.11 16:08:00 -
[60]
Really DukDodgers they like copying 600 odd bookmarks do they ?, they like making their own BMs, Which can take 2 days for 50 jumps BTW.
I think your talking bulldoppings yourself.
How about you learn to read & save us all your tiresome trolling.
Originally by: Market Scanner
Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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