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Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
18
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.
This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.
In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.
Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.
Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.
Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE. |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
650
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:
In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals
Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.
Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away. .
I think I have found your problem
And, fwiw, multiboxing is very common in other games, even to the point of multiboxing raids. Fluffy Bunny Pic! |

Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
353
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posting in Stealth "Eve is Dying" Thread R.I.P. Vile Rat |

Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
650
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
EVE is "pay to win" insofar as if you can't find some way to pay for your account, you can't log in and win.
/thread AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
599
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is much much easier to do.
Easier than what?
Quote:Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.
Not sure what controlling multiple accounts has to do with 1v1. Perhaps you're talking about purchasing plex and selling it so you can 1v1 in officer fit ships?
Or are you actually talking about the guy who uncloaks a falcon once you've engaged? In which case, why are you expecting a fair fight in the first place?
Quote:Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.
You're saying Eve should become a different game entirely so that it is better regarded by people that already don't play Eve. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

Poison Dagger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Based on numerous awards I would say that Eve's reputation is just fine. Eve has come along way and "I don't play but I respect Eve" Is a very common sentiment amongst the MMO community.
Also, Eve is as much pay to win as it is pay to lose. Skill, and intellectual ability trumps all. |

Kiryen O'Bannon
Thrall Industrial H-K Industries
28
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
You heard it here first, folks: Flying multiple ships at one time doesn't already force you to divide attention and time between them. Then again, as soon as we saw "logic dictates" in the thread title, we should have known what was coming. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17706
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game. Fortunately, reality trounces this supposed GǣlogicGǥ, making the logic rather suspectGǪ
Quote:Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet. That's a pretty odd conclusion. After all, if it's a 1v1, the money put in no longer matters (wellGǪ aside from maybe in the sense of GÇ£number of months subbed in the pastGÇ¥), especially not when you equate the payment in question to having multiple accounts. That's probably why the logic seemed so suspect: it isn't particularly consistent with its own assumptions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
201
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
I haven't spent a dollar on Eve for over a year now.
Just this last week we killed a 500 mil Demios with 15 frigs, I think you are playing Eve wrong. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
680
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.
This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.
In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.
Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.
Many intelligent people understand this about EVE, and the fact that you can easily convert cash to ISK, and stay away.
Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.
Don't know what you are talking about.
I don't pay for any of my accounts unless I'm out of game or just being lazy....and I have four active.....I can basically plex an account every two days with like 2-3 hours of mission running, and an alt with like 16mil SP.
You need to check your definition of P2W, they thought about it and 20% of the player base unsubbed......go check out the summer of rage circa the Incrusion expansion.
|

Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
18
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Fabulous Rod wrote:
In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals
Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.
Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away. .
I think I have found your problem And, fwiw, multiboxing is very common in other games, even to the point of multiboxing raids.
Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.
|

Magna Mortem
Fratres Et Sorores
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Logic always works, even on an incomplete set of data that leads to conclusions which are not connected to reality. |

Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
18
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Fabulous Rod wrote:Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game. Quote:Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet. That's a pretty odd conclusion. After all, if it's a 1v1, the money put in no longer matters
Try not to be so clueless and understand we aren't talking about 1 ship vs 1 ship. Living on these forums so many years has rotted your brain. |

Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1037
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sorry, what is it you want?
+Q+uirky +U+ser +I+nteraction +T+actile +S+preadsheets?
GûÇGûêGûÇ GûêGûÇGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ-á-á-á-á-á GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûêGûÇGûê GûêGûæGûê GûæGûêGûæ GûêGûÇGûä GûæGûêGûæ-á-á-á-á-á GûêGûÇGûê GûêGûÇGûä GûêGûæGûêGûæGûê GûÇGûêGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûÇGûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇ GûÇGûæGûÇGûæGûÇ GûæGûÇGûæ |

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1215
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote: In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals
No they're not. Having played more MMOs then I care to admit, I can assure you that you're mistaken.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
514
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Understand this isn't your typical mmo. It's not fair, it's not easy....that's why we like it. While I agree having alts for boosting, scouting, etc... is very convenient, it isn't required to succeed at pvp.
And trust me, the first time you gank the **** out of that boosted, falcon 5 account using douche it will all be worth it:) E.A.D
|

Paul Panala
Circulus Exousias
104
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
There is much more to PvP than Obit, Lock, Shoot. I have two accounts, one for combat and one for utility. I have tried multiboxing in PvP with my alt flying logi. It works, but I find that there is so much going on that I am not doing either job as well as I could. |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
680
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Understand this isn't your typical mmo. It's not fair, it's not easy....that's why we like it. While I agree having alts for boosting, scouting, etc... is very convenient, it isn't required to succeed at pvp.
And trust me, the first time you gank the **** out of that boosted, falcon 5 account using douche it will all be worth it:)
Yes a personal high point was catching a certain booster loki drifting out of a POS in Old Man Star. |

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
601
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote: Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.
So? Even if you changed all of Eve's mechanics to make multiboxing less practical, the existence of the PLEX system would still technically make it pay to win. However, as others have pointed out, paying RL money doesn't give you anything (isk or other accounts) that can't be achieved without paying RL money.
So you're suggesting that we change Eve mechanics and gameplay fundamentally at great expense to CCP to solve a problem that most people don't think is a problem to satisfy people that don't play Eve anyway. And on top of that, even then it wouldn't solve your stated problem. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
680
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Fabulous Rod wrote: Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.
So? Even if you changed all of Eve's mechanics to make multiboxing less practical, the existence of the PLEX system would still technically make it pay to win. However, as others have pointed out, paying RL money doesn't give you anything (isk or other accounts) that can't be achieved without paying RL money. So you're suggesting that we change Eve mechanics and gameplay fundamentally at great expense to CCP to solve a problem that most people don't think is a problem to satisfy people that don't play Eve anyway. And on top of that, even then it wouldn't solve your stated problem.
You are looking at it backward. Plex ALSO makes it don't pay at all. Which most people can manage even at current plex prices. |

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
601
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm not looking at it backwards because I included what you just said in my post. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
18
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
I understand the knee-jerk reaction to this. But what the status quo auto-objectors are saying is "I don't want EVE to be more appealing and require more skill to play". |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
680
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Batelle wrote:I'm not looking at it backwards because I included what you just said in my post.
Oh yeah, only scanned that, sorry.
Multi accounts are how you keep up with OOOOOOOOLLLLLD players.
Can you do everything that a 9 year old with 190mil SP can....nope. Can you can him out with a 2 month old account and gank his carebear boat with a 4 month old AF pilot?
Damn sure can. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17706
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Try not to be so clueless and understand we aren't talking about 1 ship vs 1 ship. Then logic dictates that 2 > 1 (in most casesGǪ again, reality actually disagrees with this generalisation), which has nothing to do with money or P2W. It also has very little to do with what makes a game appealing or not.
Quote:I understand the knee-jerk reaction to this. But what the status quo auto-objectors are saying is "I don't want EVE to be more appealing and require more skill to play" No, what they're saying is that you have a poor grasp on topics such as logic and pay-to-win, not to mention the appeal of games. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Karrl Tian
Bourbon Bandits Anarchy.
279
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
People stay away because of the skill system, spreadsheets, and the "Tell your ship what to do instead of flying it" interface. Most of them don't even know about the Schizophrenic model.
Also, anything an alt can do, a player can do better, it just takes social skills most "soloists" don't have and CCP is merely catering to this lucrative market (as anyone would). |

Kiryen O'Bannon
Thrall Industrial H-K Industries
28
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:I understand the knee-jerk reaction to this. But what the status quo auto-objectors are saying is "I don't want EVE to be more appealing and require more skill to play".
Unfortunately for you, "more appealing" is totally subjective and "require more skill to play" really just means "requires different skills to play." And we all know manual aiming wouldn't become a problem in TiDi or anything. |

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
683
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:People stay away because of the skill system, spreadsheets, and the "Tell your ship what to do instead of flying it" interface. Most of them don't even know about the Schizophrenic model.
Also, anything an alt can do, a player can do better, it just takes social skills most "soloists" don't have and CCP is merely catering to this lucrative market (as anyone would).
A lot of people (WoW power gamers for example) are put off by the fact that they can't jump in a Titan within a couple months of poopsocking and be the baddest boy on the block.
Understanding that skills make it a little easier at times, but there is a counter to most things and you DON'T need 100mil SP to do it. |

Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
240
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 18:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote: This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.
In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.
Let me see if I read this correctly.
Having friends, being in a corporation or alliance is bad.
And in the ideal situation every fight should be 1v1? |

Serptimis
Balls Deep Inc.
299
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 19:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Are you asking for the mechanics of the game to be changed so that multiboxing would no longer be possible? I can imagine that is something not really on CCP's list of things to do. Can't imagine why. |

Dont UseYourAlt OnTheForums
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 19:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
OFC EvE is pay to win.
Only pathetic people will disagree and bring all kinds of nonsensical excuses to justify their lack of reason.
They dont want to believe it cause if they do it breaks all their dreams and expectations about eve.
Their little world all of a sudden collapses.
Thats why its better to believe in a lie for them. |
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