In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals


Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.
.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is much much easier to do.

Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game.

Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE, and the fact that you can easily convert cash to ISK, and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

I think I have found your problem

And, fwiw, multiboxing is very common in other games, even to the point of multiboxing raids.

That's a pretty odd conclusion. After all, if it's a 1v1, the money put in no longer matters

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals

Understand this isn't your typical mmo. It's not fair, it's not easy....that's why we like it. While I agree having alts for boosting, scouting, etc... is very convenient, it isn't required to succeed at pvp.

And trust me, the first time you gank the **** out of that boosted, falcon 5 account using douche it will all be worth it:)

Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.

So? Even if you changed all of Eve's mechanics to make multiboxing less practical, the existence of the PLEX system would still technically make it pay to win. However, as others have pointed out, paying RL money doesn't give you anything (isk or other accounts) that can't be achieved without paying RL money.

So you're suggesting that we change Eve mechanics and gameplay fundamentally at great expense to CCP to solve a problem that most people don't think is a problem to satisfy people that don't play Eve anyway. And on top of that, even then it wouldn't solve your stated problem.

I'm not looking at it backwards because I included what you just said in my post.

Try not to be so clueless and understand we aren't talking about 1 ship vs 1 ship.

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to this. But what the status quo auto-objectors are saying is "I don't want EVE to be more appealing and require more skill to play"

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to this. But what the status quo auto-objectors are saying is "I don't want EVE to be more appealing and require more skill to play".

People stay away because of the skill system, spreadsheets, and the "Tell your ship what to do instead of flying it" interface. Most of them don't even know about the Schizophrenic model.

Also, anything an alt can do, a player can do better, it just takes social skills most "soloists" don't have and CCP is merely catering to this lucrative market (as anyone would).

This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.

Some of us actually do PvP. Try something that requires more interaction than mission running. I would never ever have 2 active ships while pvping. A scout and pvp char maybe, but you suck bad when fighting with 2 accounts, because you wont be able to give the required attention to each ship and max the performance. Try flying a guardian while controlling a another ship in a fleet battle. Controlling the guardian alone can be hard enough.. Atleast if you fight competent people.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.


Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Considering that the average age of an EVE player is around 30 years, I would assume that mpst people have jobs and make their own money... And if you cant get money, just buy plexes with isk. Oh wait, then its not pay to win!

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away. This statement made me laugh so hard. You come with a flawed argument, which is proven wrong pretty much as soon as you have posted, and then make this statement, with the hidden suggestion that you are among the few intelligent people who have seen the light...


Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.

Im a new player, Im rich and I want to win.


I buy a bunch of plexes with $$$
I buy characters
I buy ships
I buy modules
I get scammed by Goons

END

Im a new player, Im rich and I want to win.


I buy a bunch of plexes with $$$
I buy characters
I buy ships
I buy modules
I buy corps
I buy mercs
I buy friends
I buy alliances
I pretty much kill whoever I want for money
Make them suicide for me
Make them give me their stuff

Are you asking for the mechanics of the game to be changed so that multiboxing would no longer be possible? I can imagine that is something not really on CCP's list of things to do.
Can't imagine why.

GǪnone of which requires any money to acquire, and none of which actually guarantees any kind of win whatsoever. So it's more Gǣpay to get stuff you could conceivable (but don't have to) pay forGǥ than Gǣpay to winGǥ.

How does one win eve?

How does one win eve?

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

Dude, I am poor as f**k in real life, but I have 4 accounts going. Once had 5. The real intelligent people should realize you don't need to spend real life money on Eve. I haven't spent a single cent on Eve in over 7 years. You're not so fabulous with your ideas Fabulous Rod.

All of these things contribute to EVE's status as a p2w game and a game many people simply cannot afford to be competitive in.

How does one win eve?

With $$$ you can do whatever you want in this game.

By not logging in.

That is the common victory condition.

GǪand without $$$-áyou can do exactly the same, which rather defeats any notion of P2W.

Those extremely narrow definitions you have are typical of those who try their hardest to claim their favorite game is somehow not p2w at all.

Not that it wouldn't be impossible, just so that it wouldn't be so easy and effective to multibox. For instance, they could implement features where users are required to perform some degree of aiming or perhaps hit a perfect timing on a fluctuating bar in order to achieve maximum damage or hit chance, things to that effect. This would go a long way towards making the game more appealing, more skill demanding, and less pay 2 win.

You don't just need 4 accounts, you also need the computers to run them. We are talking about multi-boxing here. You don't know what poor is until you have been to a country where the minimum wage is 1$ an hour. Many of these countries have import taxes which makes computers and cars prohibitively expensive to the average person. All of these things things help contribute to EVE's status as a p2w game and a game that many people simply cannot afford to be competitive in, given the relatively heavy investments required.

Those extremely narrow definitions you have are typical of those who try their hardest to claim their favorite p2w game is somehow not p2w at all. P2W is not so black and white as you want to believe, there are varying degrees, and a rational person could tell you that for EVE, it is pretty high.

Those extremely narrow definitions you have are

P2W is not so black and white as you want to believe, there are varying degrees, and a rational person could tell you that for EVE, it is pretty high.

You don't just need 4 accounts, you also need the computers to run them.

Those extremely narrow definitions you have are typical of those who try their hardest to claim their favorite p2w game is somehow not p2w at all. P2W is not so black and white as you want to believe, there are varying degrees, and a rational person could tell you that for EVE, it is pretty high.

By the same token, you could say it is pretty low, because RL cash doesn't offer exclusive content.

More faulty thinking.

If you want to talk about what is exclusive. Exclusive is often the spoiled brat with 500$ allowance who buys 5 account through channels are that OFFICIALLY endorsed and is flying a fleet of carriers his first day in EVE on his 10 computers. Day 1 he is flying it because of cash. He comes here everyday and tell us how it is the smarter player who wins in EVE. Excluded from doing all that is the guy who often has to work for a living, has a familiy to feed and can't afford to buy multiple computers, accounts and isk, regardless of the extra time required to farm for PLEX for multiple accounts to be competitive with the spoilt brat. Day one, they encounter each other and fight 1 on 1. Can you guess what happens? The guy who paid money wins.

Regardless of teaching you the meaning of the word exclusive. Having or not having exclusive payed content is not the sole definition of pay 2 win, despite what defenders of pay 2 win games will tell you.

Try finding problems to my suggestions instead of trying to redefine p2w in your terms while ignoring the obvious.

What is wrong with adding some mechanics which require skillful interaction from the user? This would both decrease the power of multiboxing but make the game a lot more attractive for people who believe EVE PVP has low skill demand and requires too much investment to be competitive in.

Try finding problems to my suggestions instead of trying to redefine p2w in your terms while ignoring the obvious.

What is wrong with adding some mechanics which require skillful interaction from the user? This would both decrease the power of multiboxing but make the game a lot more attractive for people who believe EVE PVP has low skill demand and requires too much investment to be competitive in.

at most you can effectively play with 2 at a time

tell that to these guys

http://www.slashgear.com/eve-multiboxing-rig-skirts-gaming-rules-with-complex-controllers-1281188/

http://achrontimeless.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/multibox-1024x768.jpg

http://vindicator.us/images/arc7pve.jpg

tell that to these guys

http://www.slashgear.com/eve-multiboxing-rig-skirts-gaming-rules-with-complex-controllers-1281188/

http://achrontimeless.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/multibox-1024x768.jpg

http://vindicator.us/images/arc7pve.jpg

Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.

tell that to these guys

http://www.slashgear.com/eve-multiboxing-rig-skirts-gaming-rules-with-complex-controllers-1281188/

http://achrontimeless.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/multibox-1024x768.jpg

http://vindicator.us/images/arc7pve.jpg

I haven't spent a dollar on Eve for over a year now.
Just this last week we killed a 500 mil Demios with 15 frigs, I think you are playing Eve wrong.

If you want to talk about what is exclusive. Exclusive is often the spoiled brat with 500$ allowance who buys 5 account through channels are that OFFICIALLY endorsed and is flying a fleet of carriers his first day in EVE on his 10 computers. Day 1 he is flying it because of

Day one, they encounter each other and fight 1 on 1. Can you guess what happens?

Having or not having exclusive payed content is not the sole definition of pay 2 win, despite what defenders of pay 2 win games will tell you.

Try finding problems to my suggestions instead of trying to redefine p2w in your terms while ignoring the obvious.

Try finding problems to my suggestions instead of trying to redefine p2w in your terms while ignoring the obvious.

What is wrong with adding some mechanics which require skillful interaction from the user?

If you think EVE PVP requires little player interaction because you don't have to push buttons as quickly as you do raiding in WoW, then I have to conclude that you haven't done very much of it. Now, some activities don't require nearly as much attention, but you're still not paying to win if you multibox them.

keyboard diahorrea

I don't pay for any of my accounts unless I'm out of game or just being lazy....and I have four active.....I can basically plex an account every two days with like 2-3 hours of mission running, and an alt with like 16mil SP.

2/3 hours of mission running = 600mil isk payoff. Where da f---- you doing these missions?

"Isk is irrelevant for PvP" Yeah, so when my hired mercs and I gank you in my carrier full of officer fittings, it's not my bank balance in game spanking you.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.
.

If you want to talk about what is exclusive. Exclusive is often the spoiled brat with 500$ allowance who buys 5 account through channels are that OFFICIALLY endorsed and is flying a fleet of carriers his first day in EVE on his 10 computers. Day 1 he is flying it because of cash. He comes here everyday and tell us how it is the smarter player who wins in EVE. Excluded from doing all that is the guy who often has to work for a living, has a familiy to feed and can't afford to buy multiple computers, accounts and isk, regardless of the extra time required to farm for PLEX for multiple accounts to be competitive with the spoilt brat. Day one, they encounter each other and fight 1 on 1. Can you guess what happens? The guy who paid money wins. He paid to win. It is not that difficult a concept to understand.

Hmm.... The sad part is that I don;t have to even read the thread to know what sort of heavy mental gymnastics are going on to deny that plex sales impact game play, making eve defacto p2w.

"Isk is irrelevant for PvP" Yeah, so when my hired mercs and I gank you in my carrier full of officer fittings, it's not my bank balance in game spanking you.

If you want to talk about what is exclusive. Exclusive is often the spoiled brat with 500$ allowance who buys 5 account through channels are that OFFICIALLY endorsed and is flying a fleet of carriers his first day in EVE on his 10 computers. Day 1 he is flying it because of cash. He comes here everyday and tell us how it is the smarter player who wins in EVE. Excluded from doing all that is the guy who often has to work for a living, has a familiy to feed and can't afford to buy multiple computers, accounts and isk, regardless of the extra time required to farm for PLEX for multiple accounts to be competitive with the spoilt brat. Day one, they encounter each other and fight 1 on 1. Can you guess what happens? The guy who paid money wins. He paid to win. It is not that difficult a concept to understand.

ummm.... just in case... is this is an example or an actual ingame situation? If in game... do you have names?

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

so the only reason you are bad at eve is because you are bad at eve.

the only reason you are bad at eve is because you are bad at eve.

1. Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

2. In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



3. Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

4. Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


5. Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

It doesn't require any mental gymnastics, only the realisation that PLEX can't buy you anything that can't be (trivially) had through other means...

If you want to talk about what is exclusive. Exclusive is often the spoiled brat with 500$ allowance who buys 5 account through channels are that OFFICIALLY endorsed and is flying a fleet of carriers his first day in EVE on his 10 computers. Day 1 he is flying it because of cash. He comes here everyday and tell us how it is the smarter player who wins in EVE.

2/3 hours of mission running = 600mil isk payoff. Where da f---- you doing these missions?

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.

GǪ

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Here is the deal.

Real money creates Plex out of thin air.

Plex is a valued commodity.

Ergo, your money is creating value.

That value can be seen as an advantage as players who cannot create plex are at a disadvantage of those who do.

Which means those who do not create plex are trading their man hours for other people.

But that is how real life works.

Someone with money makes some poor sap work for him and pays him minimum wage (or less if they can get away with it).

Then these people have the gall to call it an equivalent exchange.

But anyways, the jokes on them... They are spending more money than me on internet space pixels so I' m not going to get hot and bothered than they can buy trillions worth of isk and bankroll entire alliances with their 401K pension.

Really, EVE is pay to win if you know what you are doing, but if I was going to spend thousands on a game, I'd rather buy actual stocks or go to vegas. Hell vegas has cheep alcohol and the ladies of the night.

So when these people do spend thousands on this game, I'm going to say... I'm glad I'm not as dumb as them. They can win this game.

FC thread has been derailed. Permission to cesspit?

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

This level of commitment (by which I mean lack of a life), should be rewarded. I mean, think of all the time and money they could have spent on something... you know... productive.. but instead devoted to grinding internetspacepixels.

That **** is funny as hell.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

I'm not a spoiled rich kid. I work for my money and I spend it how I please. Also for people who plex, their time is their own and they spend it how they please (grinding isk). So you're both (1) not prepared to work to pay to win outside of the game and (2) not prepared to work to pay to win inside of the game.

I think that covers everything.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.

Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

I look at it this way - those who use plex to pimp fit ships are just providing bigger giggles when they get ganked. We've all tipped our hats to the guys who gank 2 billion ISK Tengus or fully faction fitted CnRs.

So I say have at it - eventually you'll end up padding out someone's kill board.

Yeah... because this happens all the time and to the smartest people.

It doesn't require any mental gymnastics, only the realisation that PLEX can't buy you anything that can't be (trivially) had through other means, thereby defeating any pretence of P2W. It's not that it has no impact; it's that its impact is universally available whether you pay for it or not.

No, it's your (very limited) supply of ISK GÇö a supply that can be had with ease without any banks being involved.

I might point out then that it'd be safe to say it happens to the majority of eve players, who are not, I might point out, the smartest people, based on the sheer volume of scams that are successfully pulled off.

[GǪ]

Please point me to the in game activity that can earn me 14 billion isk a day, profit, solo. Please.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

Conversely, for how long do you think you can keep up PLEXing 14bn a day?

I have to say I agree with this 110%. A person SHOULD be able to spend his money as he pleases. It really is nobody elses business.

Fact: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you wherever he can afford to and there's not much you can do about it.
...

You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up. Sure, individually we don't actively set out to cause the misery, but we help maintain it...and no, I have no idea how to change it or what to replace it with...

You don't just need 4 accounts, you also need the computers to run them. We are talking about multi-boxing here. You don't know what poor is until you have been to a country where the minimum wage is 1$ an hour. Many of these countries have import taxes which makes computers and cars prohibitively expensive to the average person. All of these things things help contribute to EVE's status as a p2w game and a game that many people simply cannot afford to be competitive in, given the relatively heavy investments required.

2/3 hours of mission running = 600mil isk payoff. Where da f---- you doing these missions?

(Stuff about multiboxing being possible)

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.

Conversely, for how long do you think you can keep up PLEXing 14bn a day?

You say that, but considering our society lives off the back of literally billions of the impoverished, through conquest, economic domination and political power, I'm not sure how morally that stands up.

Oh man, when I read something like this i just shook my head and think "ts, tss, tss... poor little guy, so much envy in him .

You know, there are many peeps out there, that have successful life, have a beautiful and loving wife and children, they hike mountains and nature and yet, they are technological maniacs and geeks that spends money on their toys without negatively affecting their family budget. Please look at the mirror.

And remember kids...


EDIT: by the way you just wrote a textbook fallacy "This level of commitment (by which I mean lack of a life)," === true Scotchman drink"...i am Scotchman and dont drink".. then you are not a true Scotchman"...

Morally it doesn't stand up, power is amoral though, not immoral.
Replace it with what you like, it's all based on human nature, a permanently crooked and slippery timber, from which nothing straight has ever been made.
Eve is a game that lets power and money run rampant because there's no women and children to consider. A game.

Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game. This makes it unappealing. Solutions.

A game? Really? There was me trying to plug my USB plug into my... Wait a minute, you may have a point. By the way, the power may be amoral, but I consider knowing it's nature and still letting it work the way it does is immoral, but that's a personal opinion.


That aside, the way people act when money and power run rampant is exactly why I like Eve being a game and not real life, and no, I don't fit into the universe well due to that reason. I'm not good at competing in the rate race on either side of the screen, but I'm ok with that.

OFC EvE is pay to win.

Only pathetic people will disagree and bring all kinds of nonsensical excuses to justify their lack of reason.

They dont want to believe it cause if they do it breaks all their dreams and expectations about eve.

Their little world all of a sudden collapses.

Thats why its better to believe in a lie for them.

Morally it doesn't stand up, power is amoral though, not immoral.
Replace it with what you like, it's all based on human nature, a permanently crooked and slippery timber, from which nothing straight has ever been made.
Eve is a game that lets power and money run rampant because there's no women and children to consider. A game.

In a fair engagement where all pilots have even applicable skills, no dedicated OffGB, and similar player skills:

2 people with 1 account each > 1 person with 2 accounts

Personally, I absolutely love it when someone tries to effectively engage in any type of PVP while multiboxing

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

Try not to be so clueless and understand we aren't talking about 1 ship vs 1 ship. Living on these forums so many years has rotted your brain.

Alts devalue the work of real single account players

EVE simply doesn't appeal to most people and has gathered a very bad reputation with non mmo players - for many justified reasons.