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HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
137
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Posted - 2013.12.20 08:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Fix missiles instead. Yes, because we've seen how well that worked out for heavy missiles and rapid light missile launchers... I don't think you know what fix means. |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
61
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Posted - 2013.12.20 08:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
The issue at hand is that all turrets do (at least) two types of damage, while missiles, regardless of size or type, always do only one type of damage. This allows greater flexibility but then you limit that flexibility by giving bonus only to kinetic missile damage. This makes Minmatar missile boats superior to Caldari missile boats in a a number of situations. I reckon that Rattlesnake would become pretty sucky if it would have bonuses only to Drone kinetic damage, instead of damage of all drones (similarly with Dominix and drone thermal damage, but to a lesser extent, since Gallente drones are still good against all rats except Angels). Also, lasers have that advantage of being great against typical shield tank PvP setups.
So for some ships like Manticore kinetic damage bonus makes sense, but I would definitely remove it from most Caldari ships, especially the Phoenix (while the thing is great for shooting POSes, unless you're shooting a Minmatar POS or a dickstar, you'll still do more damage with other ammo). |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
74
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 09:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:The issue at hand is that all turrets do (at least) two types of damage, while missiles, regardless of size or type, always do only one type of damage. This allows greater flexibility but then you limit that flexibility by giving bonus only to kinetic missile damage. This makes Minmatar missile boats superior to Caldari missile boats in a a number of situations. I reckon that Rattlesnake would become pretty sucky if it would have bonuses only to Drone kinetic damage, instead of damage of all drones (similarly with Dominix and drone thermal damage, but to a lesser extent, since Gallente drones are still good against all rats except Angels). Also, lasers have that advantage of being great against typical shield tank PvP setups.
So for some ships like Manticore kinetic damage bonus makes sense, but I would definitely remove it from most Caldari ships, especially the Phoenix (while the thing is great for shooting POSes, unless you're shooting a Minmatar POS or a dickstar, you'll still do more damage with other ammo).
Basicaly you are right but form an amarr pilot perspective: most pvp is done with armour not shield. Every T1 ship has EM resist as it's best. Some T2 ships have sick EM resists (loki) altough some have nice EM weaknes (bot not a large hole). Despite lasers being the worst weapon system in terms of going through resists I still like them very much. So don't cry missile boy.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
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Posted - 2013.12.20 09:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:TL;DR - Ditch Caldari kinetic-specific damage bonuses.
Caldari is continually the only race still relegated to kinetic-specific missile damage bonuses for many of its hulls. This is not the case for any other race, who typically receive generic damage bonuses that apply to any type. With few exceptions, Caldari ships don't even rank in the Top 10 picks for any specific hull size or category. So this is a simple and straightforward petition:
GÇó Nighthawk receives 7.5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Damage GÇó Drake receives 10% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Damage GÇó Tengu receives 5% bonus to Missile Damage on the Accelerated Ejection Bay GÇó Cerberus receives 5% bonus to Missile Damage GÇó Onyx receives 5% bonus to Missile Damage GÇó Osprey Navy receives a 10% bonus to Missile Damage GÇó Corax receives 5% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket Damage GÇó Hawk receives 10% bonus to Missile Damage GÇó Buzzard receives 5% bonus to Missile Damage GÇó Crow receives 10% bonus to Missile Damage GÇó Hookbill Navy receives 20% bonus to Missile Damage GÇó Condor receives 10% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket Damage
I think that's it. Oh, I missed one...
GÇó Phoenix receives 5% bonus to Missile Damage
Caldari bonuses are also much more powerful because they apply over MORE missile slots.
All races must have a skew into their main damage type. That is caldari way. Some ships havign kinetic focused bonus.
Want to have all type sof missiel bonus? then the bonus value must diminish. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 09:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:The issue at hand is that all turrets do (at least) two types of damage, while missiles, regardless of size or type, always do only one type of damage. This allows greater flexibility but then you limit that flexibility by giving bonus only to kinetic missile damage. This makes Minmatar missile boats superior to Caldari missile boats in a a number of situations. I reckon that Rattlesnake would become pretty sucky if it would have bonuses only to Drone kinetic damage, instead of damage of all drones (similarly with Dominix and drone thermal damage, but to a lesser extent, since Gallente drones are still good against all rats except Angels). Also, lasers have that advantage of being great against typical shield tank PvP setups.
So for some ships like Manticore kinetic damage bonus makes sense, but I would definitely remove it from most Caldari ships, especially the Phoenix (while the thing is great for shooting POSes, unless you're shooting a Minmatar POS or a dickstar, you'll still do more damage with other ammo). Basicaly you are right but form an amarr pilot perspective: most pvp is done with armour not shield. Every T1 ship has EM resist as it's best. Some T2 ships have sick EM resists (loki) altough some have nice EM weaknes (bot not a large hole). Despite lasers being the worst weapon system in terms of going through resists I still like them very much. So don't cry missile boy.
That is not true in all types of PVP. In msot of the PVP i take part shields are the main defense system. The smaller the gang the more likjely it wil be shield tanked. THe larger the fleet, the morelikely it will be armor tanked. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 09:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:The issue at hand is that all turrets do (at least) two types of damage, while missiles, regardless of size or type, always do only one type of damage. This allows greater flexibility but then you limit that flexibility by giving bonus only to kinetic missile damage. This makes Minmatar missile boats superior to Caldari missile boats in a a number of situations. I reckon that Rattlesnake would become pretty sucky if it would have bonuses only to Drone kinetic damage, instead of damage of all drones (similarly with Dominix and drone thermal damage, but to a lesser extent, since Gallente drones are still good against all rats except Angels). Also, lasers have that advantage of being great against typical shield tank PvP setups.
So for some ships like Manticore kinetic damage bonus makes sense, but I would definitely remove it from most Caldari ships, especially the Phoenix (while the thing is great for shooting POSes, unless you're shooting a Minmatar POS or a dickstar, you'll still do more damage with other ammo).
Excludign the typhoon, what minamtar missile boat is superior (as a damage source since we are talkign about weapons) to the caldari equivalent?
NONE!
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 09:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Meyr wrote:I'm on my iPad, so I don't have access to all of the hull bonuses, but I'm certain someone can make a quick chart. Drake gets 9 kin locked or 6 free type Cyclone gets 6.25 free type I think they can manage.
This! People need to think a bit and stop whining. 9 damage on a single type and 6 on rest wil be superior to 6.25 on all on the absolute MAJORITY of time!
The exception is if you are fighting agaisnt gallente t2 ships "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
36
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 09:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Saying that Caldari can use any damage type because they can switch to un-bonused missiles is nearly the same as saying that Amarr can use any damage type by switching to projectile or hybrid turrets. If you throw out the bonuses, than every race can use every damage type. The advantage to caldari here is the ability to do it without refitting. |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
137
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Posted - 2013.12.20 09:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Excludign the typhoon, what minamtar missile boat is superior (as a damage source since we are talkign about weapons) to the caldari equivalent?
NONE!
Well there's the Talwar, but it's type locked. |
Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
36
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 09:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Perhaps the fix here is to just provide some (albeit expensive) way for bonused omni damage from some missile ship. Perhaps that should be the focus of Mordu's Legion's faction ships - caldari hull omni missile damage bonuses. |
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Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
117
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Posted - 2013.12.20 10:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:What buff will amarr and gallente gunboats, and T2 projectile ammo, receive to go along with this? They're all limited in damage types too...
Amaar and gallente have had there buffs , massive range and damage boosts for amarr a couple of years back , massive damage boosts and tracking for gallente not long ago.
Compared to those boosts this request is modest. and also needed.
Kin only bonuses are amongst the weekest given out to ship hulls. If you do the maths a 5% kin bonus works out to roughly the same as a 1.6%Damage boost.
This is calculated from max damage to all target types at lvl 5 as against lvl 0
For spending time training hulls cal pilots get very little back in terms of increased dps.
A maxed trained cal pilot in a hull getting a 5% per level kin bonus does 6.5% more dps when using optimal ammo ( ammo switching to most damaging type in each case ) than a level 1 pilot
This compared to 25% for straight damage bonuses , 37.5% for rof and 50% for most drones
Lasers and blasters get muchg greater raw dps to compensate for lack of damage type switching.
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HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
137
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Posted - 2013.12.20 10:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:If you do the maths a 5% kin bonus works out to roughly the same as a 1.6%Damage boost.
What? The kin bonused ships have more launchers than their omni equivalents. They do nearly as much damage as the kin do off type. |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
61
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Posted - 2013.12.20 10:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Excludign the typhoon, what minamtar missile boat is superior (as a damage source since we are talkign about weapons) to the caldari equivalent?
NONE!
What's so bad about the Cyclone?
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1005
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 10:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Blanket changes like this are almost always bad ideas. They typically result in unjustified boosts to ships that are already good enough while not fixing the ships that actually need help. The classic example was the 2009 projectile ammo changes; here, the change would do nothing to make the Phoenix useful while making many of the frigates rather too good.
More intelligent ideas, please. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
117
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 10:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
... removed post cause cara has rof bonuses thesee days lol maybe all that belly aching back in the days actually got through to someone :P |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
264
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 10:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:Actually, only the minmatar get a bonus to all types of damage.
Amarr only get em/thermal bonuses, gallente only get kin/therm. Yes, they both get drones, but you're either using thermal for nearly everything pve, or getting laughed at for using a drone carrier in pvp. mmmm, i fly often drone boats in pvp, and provided you know what to do, they are damn effective, vexor / navy vexor() / myrm / ishtar are very very good in small gang, and for larger fleets, ishtar / domis perform very well
right after CCP decided to remove sentry aggro on drone, i reverted to fly my vexor / myrm and yes, anyone laughed at me.
2 days later, and a green KB, they asked me for my fittings and half of them now fly those hulls, and that is damn effective! |
Deryn Angrard
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
54
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 10:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
Excludign the typhoon, what minamtar missile boat is superior (as a damage source since we are talkign about weapons) to the caldari equivalent?
NONE!
What's so bad about the Cyclone?
HAM drake can push out the same DPS from launchers only as cyclone is able to with launchers + 5 hammerhead IIs. Drake also has lot more EHP than any cyclone can get. Cyclone has advantage when active tanked.
Cyclone is in no way a bad ship, it is in fact my favorite BC at the moment. but drake doesnt need the buff OP wants.
edit. Think about the ships that already get used, what would you change on them to keep them becoming overpowered? |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
117
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 11:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Dav Varan wrote:If you do the maths a 5% kin bonus works out to roughly the same as a 1.6%Damage boost.
What? The kin bonused ships have more launchers than their omni equivalents. They do nearly as much damage as the kin do off type.
Effectiveness of a kin bonus at 5% per level is 1.6% raw damage no matter how good or bad the hull is.
If you do the raw math assuming all missile types are equally important then pilot at lvl 5 has the folowing boosts over an untrained pilot.
25% kin 0% em 0% therm 0% exp
add them up and divide to get the average
( 25 + 0 + 0 + 0 ) / 4
= 6.25% boost at level 5 or 1.25% per level.
Thats a bit pesermistic though , often kinetic is the second best ammo and better to shoot once bonused than the best ammo. Taking that into account and the prevelance of holes in each resist type the number comes out at 1.6% per level not 1.25%
If you still don't understand consider this example.
unbonused pilot shooting at an ishtar.
lets assume the ishtar has the following resist profile 50% em 60% therm 85% kin 50% exp
unbonused pilot in a hull not bonused for firing missiles does depending on missile choice.
50% em damage 40% thermal damage 15% kin damage 50% exp damage
best choice is em/exp and unbonused pilot does 50% of there raw dps in damage.
Cerb Pilot does
50% em damage 40% thermal damage 18.75% kin damage ( 1.25 x 15% ) 50% exp damage
best choice is em/exp and Cerb pilot does 50% of there raw dps in damage.
Both example have same attenuation due to target speed and sig.
In this case the cerb 5% kin bonus results in 0.00% more dps i.e. completely worthless.
This is a worst case scenario and sometime kin bonus will be fine and sometime it will be only partially effective. Averaged out over targets the effectivness of a max trained 5% kin bonus is 8% more dps.
So looking at the boosts for training done.
kin bonus pilots get 8% more dps damage bonus pilots get 25% more dps rof bonus pilots get 37.5% more dps 10% damage bonus pilots get 50% more dps
10% kin per level bonuses are of course much better and are probably about as effective as 5% per level damage. I have not run through typical resist profiles at 10% though so that is a bit of a guess. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 11:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Might I also add that those who fly the missile majority Caldari are also immune to TD's. Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW? No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too) |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
74
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 11:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Clansworth wrote:Saying that Caldari can use any damage type because they can switch to un-bonused missiles is nearly the same as saying that Amarr can use any damage type by switching to projectile or hybrid turrets. If you throw out the bonuses, than every race can use every damage type. The advantage to caldari here is the ability to do it without refitting.
Yep do you even play EVE or some other game? You can switch missile ammo ON FLIGHT. Changing turret types is only possible on station. Your comparison is just, welll, not very smart.... |
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Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
117
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Posted - 2013.12.20 11:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Might I also add that those who fly the missile majority Caldari are also immune to TD's. You may But you would look foolish. Matari and Khanid missile boats are no more affected by td's than Cal are.
A td has 0 percent effectiveness againt a rof bonused missile boat A td has 0 percent effectiveness againt a kin bonused missile boat
TD are just not a variable in this post which is discussing effectiveness of hull bonuses.
Just like Tracking computers and remote tracking links and tracking enhancers are not variables either.
Smartbombs are not variable either. Nor how many hookers you have in your cargo. |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
203
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 12:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote: Excludign the typhoon, what minamtar missile boat is superior (as a damage source since we are talkign about weapons) to the caldari equivalent?
As a damage dealer RLML Scythe Fleet Issue is superior to RLML Osprey Navy Issue.
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Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 12:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:Might I also add that those who fly the missile majority Caldari are also immune to TD's. You may But you would look foolish. Matari and Khanid missile boats are no more affected by td's than Cal are. A td has 0 percent effectiveness againt a rof bonused missile boat A td has 0 percent effectiveness againt a kin bonused missile boat TD are just not a variable in this post which is discussing effectiveness of hull bonuses. Just like Tracking computers and remote tracking links and tracking enhancers are not variables either. Smartbombs are not variable either. Nor how many hookers you have in your cargo.
Khanid ships are a specialized brand requiring intensive skill training, not a T1 hull available to all on the quick and cheap. And TC/TE's may not bonus missiles on the fitted ship, but they do still have their own equivalent for damage application. TPs.
If the kinetic damage bonuses on Caldari ships were ever replaced with an across-the-board bonuses to their numerous missile hulls, then I would hope as a drawback they'd become susceptible to TDs. By explanation that the signal transferred to the missile computer at launch is interrupted causing fuel use inefficiency in flight, or premature detonation of missiles.
Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW? No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too) |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
117
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:I'm not coming up with a rpoposal though, that's not what this thread is about. It's about the discussion of YOUR proposal, so coming back with 'Well you say somethign better then' is kind of worthless.
Caldari hulls have drones, and they have gunboats too. And drones, outside of sentries, kind of suck in PVP anyway.
T2 ammo has it's niche, and if rage missiles were available in all flavours on all caldari hulls, guess what kind of ammo would get used in them in PVP?
Hell, you can already use any damage type in a caldari missile hull, you just don't get the bonus. Gallente and Amarr are locked on EM/Therm, they cannot do another damage type with thier guns.
If you want the damage type restriction removed, either propose buffs to the other guys to make up for it, or propose a different drawback.
How about amarr and minin get full bonuses to all missile types and gal get full bonuese to all drone damage types.
Oh wait ! They all ready do.
Cal are already restricted on therm/kin on hybrids they dont need restriction on missiles too.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:Danika Princip wrote:What buff will amarr and gallente gunboats, and T2 projectile ammo, receive to go along with this? They're all limited in damage types too... Amaar and gallente have had there buffs , massive range and damage boosts for amarr a couple of years back , massive damage boosts and tracking for gallente not long ago. Compared to those boosts this request is modest. and also needed. Kin only bonuses are amongst the weekest given out to ship hulls. If you do the maths a 5% kin bonus works out to roughly the same as a 1.6%Damage boost. This is calculated from max damage to all target types at lvl 5 as against lvl 0 For spending time training hulls cal pilots get very little back in terms of increased dps. A maxed trained cal pilot in a hull getting a 5% per level kin bonus does 6.5% more dps when using optimal ammo ( ammo switching to most damaging type in each case ) than a level 1 pilot This compared to 25% for straight damage bonuses , 37.5% for rof and 50% for most drones Lasers and blasters get muchg greater raw dps to compensate for lack of damage type switching.
Ok... then you wil expende the same level of damage bonuses for the minmatra missile ships? Because they susually have far inferior bonuses to keep the all damage types available.
Just comapre missile damage between drake and cyclone... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:Danika Princip wrote:I'm not coming up with a rpoposal though, that's not what this thread is about. It's about the discussion of YOUR proposal, so coming back with 'Well you say somethign better then' is kind of worthless.
Caldari hulls have drones, and they have gunboats too. And drones, outside of sentries, kind of suck in PVP anyway.
T2 ammo has it's niche, and if rage missiles were available in all flavours on all caldari hulls, guess what kind of ammo would get used in them in PVP?
Hell, you can already use any damage type in a caldari missile hull, you just don't get the bonus. Gallente and Amarr are locked on EM/Therm, they cannot do another damage type with thier guns.
If you want the damage type restriction removed, either propose buffs to the other guys to make up for it, or propose a different drawback. How about amarr and minin get full bonuses to all missile types and gal get full bonuese to all drone damage types. Oh wait ! They all ready do. Cal are already restricted on therm/kin on hybrids they dont need restriction on missiles too.
They get SMALLER damage bonuses.
Compare the missile dps of drake and cyclone! Compare missile damage of caracal and bellicose.
They keep all damage profile while havign a muhc LOWER max dps. The only exception is the typhoon.. but wait.. the raven also does not have locked damage type... so its almost like CCP had already tought about that..... incredble huh? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: Excludign the typhoon, what minamtar missile boat is superior (as a damage source since we are talkign about weapons) to the caldari equivalent?
As a damage dealer RLML Scythe Fleet Issue is superior to RLML Osprey Navy Issue.
You need to bring up the broken stupid RLML that get ultra bennefit form the base damage bonus on the scythe being large. THat is an anomaly due to the broken weapon system that should NEVEr be taken seriously in a balance discussion. The fault of this is a bad designed mechanic on the launcher.
Use real missile laucnhers, useful for PVP, like HAMS when you compare things. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
117
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:30:00 -
[58] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Dav Varan wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:Might I also add that those who fly the missile majority Caldari are also immune to TD's. You may But you would look foolish. Matari and Khanid missile boats are no more affected by td's than Cal are. A td has 0 percent effectiveness againt a rof bonused missile boat A td has 0 percent effectiveness againt a kin bonused missile boat TD are just not a variable in this post which is discussing effectiveness of hull bonuses. Just like Tracking computers and remote tracking links and tracking enhancers are not variables either. Smartbombs are not variable either. Nor how many hookers you have in your cargo. Khanid ships are a specialized brand requiring intensive skill training, not a T1 hull available to all on the quick and cheap. And TC/TE's may not bonus missiles on the fitted ship, but they do still have their own equivalent for damage application. TPs. If the kinetic damage bonuses on Caldari ships were ever replaced with an across-the-board bonuses to their numerous missile hulls, then I would hope as a drawback they'd become susceptible to TDs. By explanation that the signal transferred to the missile computer at launch is interrupted causing fuel use inefficiency in flight, or premature detonation of missiles.
Khanid ttraining os no moer intensive than training on any other t2 hulls including cal t2 with the bad bonuses.
TP's bonuses all missiles the same amount irrespective of any hull bonus. TP's are not a variable either.
Given Cal only get one bonused ammo lets give Gal one bonused ammo. Hmmm Gal only get tracking bonuses when using iron ammo .
??? thing that is a good enough bonus ???
Thats equivelent. And more of an equivalancy argument than the one your trying and failing to make.
If missile get affected by TD's then Gal only get tracking on Iron ammo. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
117
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 13:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Dav Varan wrote:Danika Princip wrote:What buff will amarr and gallente gunboats, and T2 projectile ammo, receive to go along with this? They're all limited in damage types too... Amaar and gallente have had there buffs , massive range and damage boosts for amarr a couple of years back , massive damage boosts and tracking for gallente not long ago. Compared to those boosts this request is modest. and also needed. Kin only bonuses are amongst the weekest given out to ship hulls. If you do the maths a 5% kin bonus works out to roughly the same as a 1.6%Damage boost. This is calculated from max damage to all target types at lvl 5 as against lvl 0 For spending time training hulls cal pilots get very little back in terms of increased dps. A maxed trained cal pilot in a hull getting a 5% per level kin bonus does 6.5% more dps when using optimal ammo ( ammo switching to most damaging type in each case ) than a level 1 pilot This compared to 25% for straight damage bonuses , 37.5% for rof and 50% for most drones Lasers and blasters get muchg greater raw dps to compensate for lack of damage type switching. Ok... then you wil expende the same level of damage bonuses for the minmatra missile ships? Because they susually have far inferior bonuses to keep the all damage types available. Just comapre missile damage between drake and cyclone...
The clone is not a pure missile boat so here is the full damage comparison cyclone 6.875 effective launchers 2 effective turrets 2 effective drones
for a total 10.875 effective damage dealers
drake has 7.5 effective launchers 1 effective drones
for a total of 8.5 effective damage dealers.
clone is faster and has a better solo tank bonus drake has better slot layout and better group tank.
looks like the drake could do with a proper missile bonus lets go with 10 damage to all
that would then be
9 effective launcher + 1 effective drone for a total of 10 total effective damage dealers Still behind the clone but close enough.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
947
|
Posted - 2013.12.20 14:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Dav Varan wrote:Danika Princip wrote:What buff will amarr and gallente gunboats, and T2 projectile ammo, receive to go along with this? They're all limited in damage types too... Amaar and gallente have had there buffs , massive range and damage boosts for amarr a couple of years back , massive damage boosts and tracking for gallente not long ago. Compared to those boosts this request is modest. and also needed. Kin only bonuses are amongst the weekest given out to ship hulls. If you do the maths a 5% kin bonus works out to roughly the same as a 1.6%Damage boost. This is calculated from max damage to all target types at lvl 5 as against lvl 0 For spending time training hulls cal pilots get very little back in terms of increased dps. A maxed trained cal pilot in a hull getting a 5% per level kin bonus does 6.5% more dps when using optimal ammo ( ammo switching to most damaging type in each case ) than a level 1 pilot This compared to 25% for straight damage bonuses , 37.5% for rof and 50% for most drones Lasers and blasters get muchg greater raw dps to compensate for lack of damage type switching. Ok... then you wil expende the same level of damage bonuses for the minmatra missile ships? Because they susually have far inferior bonuses to keep the all damage types available. Just comapre missile damage between drake and cyclone... The clone is not a pure missile boat so here is the full damage comparison cyclone 6.875 effective launchers 2 effective turrets 2 effective drones for a total 10.875 effective damage dealers drake has 7.5 effective launchers 1 effective drones for a total of 8.5 effective damage dealers. clone is faster and has a better solo tank bonus drake has better slot layout and better group tank. looks like the drake could do with a proper missile bonus lets go with 10 damage to all that would then be 9 effective launcher + 1 effective drone for a total of 10 total effective damage dealers Still behind the clone but close enough.
You are mixing guns and drones. That completely negates your argument about beign able to deliver pure damage type. Not to forget range and the fact aht the turrets and droens will not bennefit from the damage mods that will be for missiles.
Again. MISSILE DAMAGE. Compare both.
Stop trying to look smart because you are NOT! Split weapons cannot be compared like you try. There is a reason why everyone hates them
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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