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branodn lee
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:14:00 -
[1]
i am a pirate and all i do when i log in is kill as many people as possable. is this grief tactics. i dont think so but since i have seen this topic talked about more and more i need to ask. what do you the people of eve and the gms or devs think and how do you know when you are a grief tactic person instead of a kill everyone pirate.
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:17:00 -
[2]
As a PvP'er, I don't believe that griefing is anything more than exploiting some obviously bugged game mechanic to kill people.
If you kill people by the game rules, it's not griefing
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EVIL SOULS
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:20:00 -
[3]
My player was banned for using this tactic in 1.0 space. Setting out cans and letting noobs steal them. The GM informed me that this is a grief tactic and you can be banned.
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GAC
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:23:00 -
[4]
the grief tactic thats talked about a lot isnt what you would call normal pirating, it is a problem with being able to make an alt and within a couple of days you can load out a kestral and go rip haulers off in empire and just log out and log back in with another alt pick up xxx amount of cargo from the hauler, sell and repeat.
the tactic is a bit of a gray area but its not doing anything illegal as such, just anyone who does it and gets there jollys from it claiming to be the big ole pirate maybe should try it with there main instead of a throw away alt.
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branodn lee
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:24:00 -
[5]
well i just do your sniping and your close range planet and belt type killing.
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GAC
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: EVIL SOULS My player was banned for using this tactic in 1.0 space. Setting out cans and letting noobs steal them. The GM informed me that this is a grief tactic and you can be banned.
hmm stealing our of cans when you get a warning about doing it meens the person who plassed the can is griefing !?
odd one as when you try to tack from somone elses can you get a big ole warning in the middle of your screen about stealling. now if you told people to take stuff then attacked them yeah your griefing and setting em up for a spanking.
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EVIL SOULS
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:28:00 -
[7]
Well, thats what I thought also but the GM decided different. I am not going to say the GM was wrong in the situation. People are warned before they steal, but I guess killing noobs for it is a no no.
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ephemeron on 16/03/2006 06:38:37 Stealing loot from your ejected can and getting killed for it is by no means an exploit. The carebears have asked for this feature, CCP have implemented it. It's not a result of some unforseen game feature.
If you get banned for killing people who take your stuff, you need to petition the GM. I think many lower level GMs hardly ever play the game and don't fully understand what's a game feature and what's a bug.
If higher ups still decide that it is an exploit, well then what does it say about their integrity? they purposefully implemented an exploit, makes no sense
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SUPER J0SH
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:40:00 -
[9]
Ok leaving a $100 bill on the sidewalk then standing aside, waiting for someone to pick it up, then beating them to death with a crowbar while yelling 'STOP THIEF!' is bad. I think most people would agree.
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Da Death
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:41:00 -
[10]
sure no expploit, but ccp not wants to see players leave eve coz of 'bad playing experience'
Selling: Absolution - Curse - Gleam S - BPC's - check my bio
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Da Death
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: SUPER J0SH Ok leaving a $100 bill on the sidewalk then standing aside, waiting for someone to pick it up, then beating them to death with a crowbar while yelling 'STOP THIEF!' is bad. I think most people would agree.
u missed that they getting a WARNING!
Selling: Absolution - Curse - Gleam S - BPC's - check my bio
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:43:00 -
[12]
I think the line is this.
is the action in question, offensive against the CHARACTER or the PLAYER.
and don't give any of this "its just a game, I can't do anything offensive against the other person, they are there willingly" nonsense. thats bull**** and you know it. these games are not meaningless toys, they are persistent state worlds.
so think about it... if an action is entirely destructive, and the only thing it does is offend the other person(the person thats behind the "victim" character) then its greifing.
a distinction would be ore stealing, (could be argued as a form of piracy... if you really wanted to, since you can shoot back if someone steals from you) vs transferring ore into a different can and simply blowing it up. if your not legitimately at war with the other person (thus, legitimately hindering an enemy's wartime production, and I mean legitimately at war, as in, theres some sensical reason that your at war, rather than simply wanting to blow up people)
then thats greifing. you gain nothing. you are taking from the other PERSON without any point.
at least thats the line for my own distinction.
~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake |
Adjodlo
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: EVIL SOULS Well, thats what I thought also but the GM decided different. I am not going to say the GM was wrong in the situation. People are warned before they steal, but I guess killing noobs for it is a no no.
The GM was wrong in this situation.
Theres nothing wrong with killing people however you deem necessary unless you are exploiting a game mechanic. Killing someone for stealing from you is NOT an exploit, if it was, the theif wouldnt flag and stealing would be alot easier.
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EVIL SOULS
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:47:00 -
[14]
Edited by: EVIL SOULS on 16/03/2006 06:55:06 This is the responce that I recieved from a GM after I was banned. It is edit in a part to hide name. ******* Sorry just read part of forum rules and am not allowed to post email. ****** I wont be in 1.0 sec for a long time
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branodn lee
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:57:00 -
[15]
thank you for the information and i hope i dont get warned or banned for sniping anyone that comes to low sec and all. well i say thank you for all the fast responses but is there a dev or anyone that could respond that would be able to say for sure.
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Da Death
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Posted - 2006.03.16 06:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kel Shek I think the line is this.
is the action in question, offensive against the CHARACTER or the PLAYER.
and don't give any of this "its just a game, I can't do anything offensive against the other person, they are there willingly" nonsense. thats bull**** and you know it. these games are not meaningless toys, they are persistent state worlds.
so think about it... if an action is entirely destructive, and the only thing it does is offend the other person(the person thats behind the "victim" character) then its greifing.
a distinction would be ore stealing, (could be argued as a form of piracy... if you really wanted to, since you can shoot back if someone steals from you) vs transferring ore into a different can and simply blowing it up. if your not legitimately at war with the other person (thus, legitimately hindering an enemy's wartime production, and I mean legitimately at war, as in, theres some sensical reason that your at war, rather than simply wanting to blow up people)
then thats greifing. you gain nothing. you are taking from the other PERSON without any point.
at least thats the line for my own distinction.
so pirates should get banned? lol
Selling: Absolution - Curse - Gleam S - BPC's - check my bio
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GAC
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Posted - 2006.03.16 07:00:00 -
[17]
low sec space has always been and will hopfully stay a free for all. thats what its there for, a low security area where you in danger all the time.
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Pizi
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Posted - 2006.03.16 07:01:00 -
[18]
xploiting noobs with cans around starter stations named "FREE NOOB STUFF" is not fun there are so many people playing in this game calling themselfs pirates or pvpers butare only griefers =)
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2006.03.16 07:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Pizi xploiting noobs with cans around starter stations named "FREE NOOB STUFF" is not fun there are so many people playing in this game calling themselfs pirates or pvpers butare only griefers =)
Using game features that have been well thought out and implemented by game developer is no more griefing than choosing queen piece in chess when your pawn reaches the end of the board.
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Pizi
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Posted - 2006.03.16 07:23:00 -
[20]
dont think its soo "well thought out", thats why they flagged em red first imo
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2006.03.16 07:55:00 -
[21]
Can flagging was discussed months before it was finally implemented. All possible scenarios about using cans to bait noobs have been outlined repeatedly. Unless devs were blind to the forums, they couldn't escape thinking about the issue. There's no excuse, no suprise.
This can flagging feature is exactly as devs wanted, thus not an exploit.
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Pizi
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Posted - 2006.03.16 08:11:00 -
[22]
well we can discus it for hours ..
read this quote, looks like CCP thinks otherwise
Originally by: EVIL SOULS My player was banned for using this tactic in 1.0 space. Setting out cans and letting noobs steal them. The GM informed me that this is a grief tactic and you can be banned.
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Asane
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Posted - 2006.03.16 08:19:00 -
[23]
Would be nice to be informed about those rules.. same with the whole concord deal.. Not that I'm ever gonna try tanking one, but getting banned for it? And getting banned for using gamemechanics?
Dev/CRC, someone, could you make a list of the nono's for us so we don't have to risk banning at all times?
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.16 08:23:00 -
[24]
>>"so pirates should get banned? lol"
... I guess I wasn't clear here, let me try explaining what I mean a little simpler.
piracy for the sake of piracy is part of the game. blowing people up and being unpleasant in the whole "stealing their stuff forcibly" thing. is part of the game.
bullying, being destructive with NO point, for NO reason, against someone who has NO chance, is not piracy, its being an ***hole. if the only reason *AT ALL* of "why" is "because I'm an ***hole." then yes, those people should be banned. if the reason is "because I claim this space and you don't have my permission to be here" or "because your a dirty slaver" or "because your a hippie gallente" or 'because I want your stuff" those are all part of the game. but when its one PLAYER assaulting another through the game, with NO benefit within the game... that SHOULD be banned.
taking advantage of peoples ignorance and lack of understanding, when theres no reason they would know better, is just not acceptable behavior.
Ore Stealing, (as in,... actually stealing it) = not greifing.
taking ore, putting it in your own can, then blowing it up,(without a chance for them to react or shoot you or anything) = greifing.
the system is to allow people to defend themselves from theives... not meant to allow people to trick noobs into getting blown up. that is abusing the dynamic, and abusing the new players.
~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake |
Fuujin
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Posted - 2006.03.16 08:31:00 -
[25]
I never quite understood the pleasure recieved from sitting in some n00b system and tricking players for kills. _______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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Akkarin Pagan
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Posted - 2006.03.16 08:40:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Akkarin Pagan on 16/03/2006 08:43:51 Edited by: Akkarin Pagan on 16/03/2006 08:43:17 Ok, this may be slightly off topic but...
Why would you want to set a trap to kill a noob you never met?
It seems a bit ****holeish (british spelling). Shortly after I started playing, rmr was released. I leave a station and right at the undock point there is a can, 3 bs 2 cruisers hanging in space around the station exit. I can understand piracy, and admittedly I may get ****** off when killed by one, but it is a known and recognised game mechanic and valid career path, and I'm sure pirates ocasionally get a good fight out of it too (not from me unfortunately but hey).
But to place a can with the express intent of catching out someone new to the game. There is no point, it's not like they're hauling around t2 goodies, or bpos. They can't even defend themselves from it if caught out! That's just wrong, and I agree with CCP, suspend the b******s!
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Jenny Longshanks
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Posted - 2006.03.16 08:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Fuujin I never quite understood the pleasure recieved from sitting in some n00b system and tricking players for kills.
Ask those losers of TunDraGon, MAFIA, S******dly etc etc who gatecamp those 0.4 systems like Amamake, Rancer, Tannolen etc with sniper ships to blow up everything that doesn't have insta's It boggles me what fun can be get from that
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.03.16 09:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jenny Longshanks Ask those losers of TunDraGon, MAFIA, S******dly (<= S n i g g e r d l y, stupid filter:() etc etc who gatecamp those 0.4 systems like Amamake, Rancer, Tannolen etc with sniper ships to blow up everything that doesn't have insta's It boggles me what fun can be get from that
It's the pirate way of mining. Is dull and pays well (afaik anyway).
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Asane
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Posted - 2006.03.16 09:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ras Blumin It's the pirate way of mining. Is dull and pays well (afaik anyway).
QFT TBH
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Asane
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Posted - 2006.03.16 09:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gariuys A kill everything type of pirate doesn't exist. That's called psycho serial killer. a.k.a. mass murderer. Pirates only kill when there's profit to be made.
...You sure haven't been in empirespace for a long long time..
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