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Mome
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Posted - 2006.03.21 02:34:00 -
[1]
I logged onto EBay to try and find an original of the really cool poster I saw in the player-uploaded pics of All the ships available by race. OMG!! ISK for sale, Ships for sale, equipment for sale, even characters for sale. Is this legal? what is Eve's take? If it's legal it's obviously a HUGE resource...if not, then why is it still going on?
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Colonel O'Neill
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Posted - 2006.03.21 02:45:00 -
[2]
It is against the EULA.
// Colonel O'Neill |

Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.03.21 02:45:00 -
[3]
It's not legal however CCP dosent have control of ebay stuff.
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Micia
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Posted - 2006.03.21 02:45:00 -
[4]
Quote: Is this legal?
It's against the EULA, which could mean an account bannination if busted.  _______ Can't find what you need? EVE Search |
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Santiago Cortes

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Posted - 2006.03.21 03:52:00 -
[5]
Selling in game items for in game currency = legal
Selling in game items for out of game currency = illegal.
Accounts are subject to anything up to permanent bans if found out and I assure you our GMs and international trading websites are well acquainted.
forum rules | mailto:[email protected]
Property Of Ductoris, if found please return to CCP Games Grandagar=ur 8, 101 Reykjavik, Iceland It's a sad state of affairs when you have to vandalise your own sig - Cortes  Maximum dimensions for a signature are 400 width by 120 height, for a total size of 24000 kbs or under |
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Andargor theWise
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Posted - 2006.03.21 04:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Santiago Cortes Selling in game items for in game currency = legal
Selling in game items for out of game currency = illegal.
Accounts are subject to anything up to permanent bans if found out and I assure you our GMs and international trading websites are well acquainted.
What about selling out-of-game items for in-game currency? (i.e. GTCs)
Andargor
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Mike Moss
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Posted - 2006.03.21 04:30:00 -
[7]
This is a huge problem for all online games, including WoW, GW, etc. This is why there are so many macro farmers depleting asteroid belts in high sec areas. As a noob I notice many new players openly admitting they began by buying isk on eBay.
As the popularity of EVE grows, so will farming by macro operators and sweatshops. Ordinary players will be left holding the bag. A bag filled with increasingly little worthwhile.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:38:00 -
[8]
No, it's not illegal, as no court in the world will convict you of anything. But it IS against the EULA and will get you banned. So don't do it.
Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
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DirtyHarry
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Posted - 2006.03.21 05:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: F'nog No, it's not illegal, as no court in the world will convict you of anything. But it IS against the EULA and will get you banned. So don't do it.
exactly what he said
-Havo ------------------- DirtyHarry ~ Havocide - yarr tbh "Take from the rich and put it on eBay" - zincol |

Myz Toyou
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Myz Toyou on 21/03/2006 09:05:26
Originally by: Santiago Cortes Selling in game items for in game currency = legal
Selling in game items for out of game currency = illegal.
Accounts are subject to anything up to permanent bans if found out and I assure you our GMs and international trading websites are well acquainted.
So,her my 2 cents: You surely have an Ebay account, buy stuff from the ppl that offer in Ebay ships and ISK, wait for the ingame trade and you got the chinese farmers... Seems not so difficult if CCP was willing to do that ???
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2006.03.21 09:51:00 -
[11]
Can you sell ships for ISK in Ebay?  --- Sell orders Free money for n00bs |

Ashelth
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Posted - 2006.03.21 10:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Steven Dynahir Can you sell ships for ISK in Ebay? 
That would be against the Ebay EULA :D
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.21 10:16:00 -
[13]
what if i paid a hooker in isk?
no skills, just luck.
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:05:00 -
[14]
I'll take a Raven please.
Hang on, waddaya mean it aint real?
pfft.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |

Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:07:00 -
[15]
GTCs CCP gets a cut Ebaying etc CCP doesnt get a cut - its a pure busines decision hence all the ingame ISK farmers that are so *****y obvious and petitioned over and over and over and over are still in the game 6 months after original petitions go in (tbbh CCP have started to ignore macro miner and ISK farmer petitions u get an automated evemail sayng this issue has been passed on to someone and it automatically closes)
So i think we now have CCPs view on the amtter.
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Zeonog
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:14:00 -
[16]
I like making models for fun so I buy items for it because its more fun...I play eve for fun...anyone see a pattern?
I don't see what the fuss is about tbh
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:18:00 -
[17]
yes well it unbalances the game. The game is for fun not a business. Hence keep ingame items buyable using ISK only. U work for it (u play i should say for fun)
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Kebabbinn
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Miss Overlord GTCs CCP gets a cut Ebaying etc CCP doesnt get a cut - its a pure busines decision hence all the ingame ISK farmers that are so *****y obvious and petitioned over and over and over and over are still in the game 6 months after original petitions go in (tbbh CCP have started to ignore macro miner and ISK farmer petitions u get an automated evemail sayng this issue has been passed on to someone and it automatically closes)
So i think we now have CCPs view on the amtter.
sed 
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zeonog I like making models for fun so I buy items for it because its more fun...I play eve for fun...anyone see a pattern?
I don't see what the fuss is about tbh
The concept behind the game is to strive to better yourself and compete against others within the game mechanics.
Buying ISK of ebay is akin to buying a model and paying someone to build it for you. You are missing the point.
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Mome
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:30:00 -
[20]
The way I see it is some of us are in this game for fun...and the VAST MAJORITY are in it to make money and blow up as many of us as they can. So if they're going to go out and buy a billion ISK on ebay and buy every skill and all the equipment they need for an invinceable Armageddon just so they can run around and blow ME up, then why isnt CCP banning them? BECAUSE CCP WOULDN'T MAKE AS MUCH MONEY!!! CCP is in this to make money off of all of us that want to play the game for fun...they couldn't care less about us. They DO care about the isk-sellers and macrominers that create hundreds of accounts...all paid for. That is the only logic that allows for macrominers and isk-sellers to be so proliferate. I challenge CCP to show me I'm wrong...Don't tell me, because you've already re-proven that "talk is cheap".
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:41:00 -
[21]
you're loving this whole 'ships and isk on ebay' think at the moment, aren't you?
cross posting barely coherent ranting ftw.
no skills, just luck.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Zeonog I like making models for fun so I buy items for it because its more fun...I play eve for fun...anyone see a pattern?
I don't see what the fuss is about tbh
The concept behind the game is to strive to better yourself and compete against others within the game mechanics.
Buying ISK of ebay is akin to buying a model and paying someone to build it for you. You are missing the point.
Stop deceiving yourself with big words. How about those that can play 8 hours per day vs. those that can play only 1 hour per day? How about those that can afford 5 accounts vs those that can afford only 1?
Yes, playing 8 hours per day and playing with 5 accounts it's within game mechanics but it's far from fair. But then again, how many things are fair in this world?
The biggest problem with not forbidding in game currency sales (and do I have to remind you that up to May 2004 you were allowed to sell your account for $$) is that it opens the gaming company to a lot of legal problems. If it would be allowed and you get scammed by the seller, you complain to CCP. If you buy something and loose it to an ingame glitch, you complain to CCP. If they ever decide to shut down the server they will actualy have to pay the players that invested $$ in a game and so on and so forth. The easiest way to prevent all this possible problems is to just forbid the sales.
MMORPG.com: LetÆs start off with a hot topic in the industry as of late. SOE recently announced their plan for a ôStation Exchangeö which would basically embrace the secondary market of buying and selling ingame currency and items for real world money. How do you feel about a company that over the years has been so adamantly against such actions now embracing it? Nathan Richardsson: Everybody has their reasons for buying ôstuffö and we can certainly sympathize with SOEÆs argument that it causes considerable grief to current (and potential customers) when they are scammed. That is also the majority of cases we encounter in customer support. Not only that, these cases almost never end happily.
We certainly understand the more casual player wanting to get a head start and wanting to participate with the big boy¦s. People have different amounts of time on their hands with girlfriends, wifes, kids, work, more work and then some work, and of course the wife. In cases like that we can see the point in allowing a user to get some wind in their sails, and we believe that this is main driving force for a user to buy "stuff". ItÆs not to get the ôwin buttonö but just make life a bit more easier.
However, as with everything where real money is involved to get ahead in a game, it gets exploitable very fast. ItÆs simply not as black and white as one would want it to be. _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |

Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:50:00 -
[23]
Quote: Stop deceiving yourself with big words.
err, what big words?
You seem to think that people who only play for an hour have a divine right to an equal amount of wealth as somebody who's worked for hours on end for it.
That is wrong.
no skills, just luck.
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Dave Day
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zeonog I like making models for fun so I buy items for it because its more fun...I play eve for fun...anyone see a pattern?
I don't see what the fuss is about tbh
Models aren't games, your analogy is flawed.
Say there are a bunch of you playing Monopoly and one of you is putting Mayfair up for grabs. You offer ú2k of in game cash, the guy next to you offers a trade of 3 other properties. the guy next to him offers ú10 in real cash. the seller accepts the cash.
The buyer is happy, he was willing to part with real cash for the game item. The seller is happy. So what's the problem? Later, the guy has a hotel on Mayfair (he bought it for ú1.50 from the guy looking after the box of bits) and his mate lands on it. Damn, he doesn't have enough game cash to pay. No problem, he gives the guy back the tenner he paid for Mayfair earlier.
10 mins later another player lands on Mayfair. he's not using RL cash and doesn't have enough in game cash to pay. he's wiped out.
The fuss, my friend, is that when people buy in game items for RL cash, they **** up the game for everyone else.
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Zeonog
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:55:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Zeonog on 21/03/2006 11:55:58 Main thing I see is, you can buy GTC and sell for isk, so complaining about being able to buy isk from ebay is rather amusing.
Can anyone say hypocritical?
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:57:00 -
[26]
it's CCP's game, not ours.
no skills, just luck.
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Abraxus
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:03:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Abraxus on 21/03/2006 12:04:36
Originally by: Usul Faust it's CCP's game, not ours.
Its a brilliant game, I can't understand the stance on GTC's and at the same time the stance on Ebay
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Estoramus
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:03:00 -
[28]
so is it against the rules to buy the stuff or sell the stuff?
who gets banned?
i guess both would need to get banned otherwise whats the point?
the person that sells the account or items doesn't want it anyway but the person that is buying is the one that would really suffer.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:05:00 -
[29]
ok ill play devils advocate here - we allow players to purchase ingames items and ISK using $$$. CCP allow the market now by allowing the ISK farmers via the macro miners to generate the ISK that they sell. They dont get this because those same bots pay accounts each month so that would be a revenue stream loss to ban it
They get the cut with GTCs.
So we allow items to be sold for $$$. They will get blown up quickly anyway unless as current NPC corpers arent touchable they cant be contract bounty hunted either.
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Mome
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:16:00 -
[30]
It is a game now, but what is it becoming? Certainly not a game.
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Zeonog
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:18:00 -
[31]
I believe in the future, buying/selling game items for cash will be allowed for all mmorpg's. Its just a matter of time.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Zeonog Edited by: Zeonog on 21/03/2006 11:55:58 Main thing I see is, you can buy GTC and sell for isk, so complaining about being able to buy isk from ebay is rather amusing.
Can anyone say hypocritical?
This is extremely limiting cause no isk seller has a limetless need for GTCs. And it allows people with excess isk and a lack of reallife cash to play the game. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |

Astik Stfgar
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:39:00 -
[33]
I don't see why after 15Ç/month for each account you have, you still want to spend more and more money on items... Hell i can make 10 mils a day and i am not that uber skilled! And i'm not talking 26h/day of playing eighter. Why do yiu people always want easy ways of getting to the destination? A game is a problem to solve to get ahead of the obstacle, plain definition. Chess game, haunting game, tennis game. You always have to be good, smarter then your adversary. Don't you get the point? Don't you get that. using your RL money for advancing in a game, you're spolinig the game itself? For dynamics to work they need not to be invaded by external agents. That's what you're doing. And btw i get my satisfaction from gaining things, not from buying things... And this not to speak about the fact that you are utterly wasting money this way... but then this gets too philosophical...
A blimp nearing on your radar... |

Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mome It is a game now, but what is it becoming? Certainly not a game.
nope, it'll still a game tomorrow.
then again, i still maintain that Second Life is a game. albeit a **** one.
no skills, just luck.
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Mome
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:50:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Mome on 21/03/2006 12:54:16 Thanks Astik...you're much more eloquent at making a point than I. Using RL money to further yourself in Eve is like manufacturing your own money to me.
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Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:04:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Miss Overlord yes well it unbalances the game. The game is for fun not a business. Hence keep ingame items buyable using ISK only. U work for it (u play i should say for fun)
Just to use a familiar argument:
Hey, I worked hard for my financial advantage in real life. There are plenty of ubergamers out there who have worked hard at eve, and consequently have not much in real life - not my problem. If they ain't got what it takes they fall behind.
Why shouldn't i buy isk and ships? Just cos people are too lazy to get a job and play eve all day instead, then whine that other people have a 'financial advantage.'
I just choose to earn my isk outside of EVE. I work just as hard as some ubergamer who spends 8 hours per day on eve. Best of all, my world doesnt fall apart in 3 years when the game is finished, cos my cash is transferrable.
LOL not that I actually do buy isk, but the argument stands. All the people whining about isk buying are people who probably spend too much time in eve and not enough time earning real cash.
Get used to it its called real life - where rich people use their hard-earned money to crap on the not-so-rich. No EULA will change anything - everything has its price, and there will always be people selling and people buying isk, ships, whatever is valuable in EVE. CCP could employ 100s of people to track it down and it wouldnt change the essential problem. If people like the game, some of them will pay money to get what they want.
It s like: "I don't have time to setup a 0.0 mining op because I work all day, and actually interact with my family during evenings, so I'll use the proceeds of that to tryout new things in the game"
Doesn't really bother me I have to say EULA or no EULA. Especially if you are allowed to do the same thing as long as CCP get their slice - I'd rather give my money to a Macroer to be honest. God if you have to robotically play computer games all day for a living they probably need the cash more than ccp.
No-one is gonna take seriously an EULA written by people selling isk themselves, whatever subtle differences are there to try and justify it.
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Dave Day
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:08:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Zeonog I believe in the future, buying/selling game items for cash will be allowed for all mmorpg's. Its just a matter of time.
But why bother?? If I had enough money, I could pay every team at this year's World Cup to throw their matches in favour of England. Then I could run round in circles screaming that we won but knowing that really I just bought the result and the victory is hollow and meaningless. I just happened to have the most cash and into the bargain I ruined everyone else's enjoyment of the game. What's the point?
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:08:00 -
[38]
There's a point to be made for isk selling based on the "I'm too busy, and someone else has too much freetime, let's trade" argument.
The arrogant sob attitude I work hard for my reallife money and cause I lucked out in real life people that are better at the game should bend over not only in real life but in game too is such bull.
and GTC for isk is not the same as isk for cash by a long shot. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |

Lisa Run
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Zeonog Edited by: Zeonog on 21/03/2006 11:55:58 Main thing I see is, you can buy GTC and sell for isk, so complaining about being able to buy isk from ebay is rather amusing.
Can anyone say hypocritical?
This is extremely limiting cause no isk seller has a limetless need for GTCs. And it allows people with excess isk and a lack of reallife cash to play the game.
True, if you look at the situation on ebay (my search lead to 13 pages), then GTC for isk auctions don't matter that much. I don't know what CCP can do. Maybe try to get the top sellers or put up fake sales on ebay and ban the people, who try to buy. This might spread some fear. ___________________________ ! Post under construction ! |

Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:12:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Zeonog Edited by: Zeonog on 21/03/2006 11:55:58 Main thing I see is, you can buy GTC and sell for isk, so complaining about being able to buy isk from ebay is rather amusing.
Can anyone say hypocritical?
This is extremely limiting cause no isk seller has a limetless need for GTCs. And it allows people with excess isk and a lack of reallife cash to play the game.
It also smacks of hypocrisy. If you are saying don't sell isk it upsets the game dynamic - then don't sell it yourself.
However if CCP came out and said the truth that would be fine:
"we are selling isk because we cannot stop it legally (because it is not illegal), we aren't prepared to throw money at tracking down and banning the main culprits, and we want a slice of the financial action as well."
If they cared about the game dynamic people keep harping on about, they simply wouldnt sell isk and add to the problem.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:15:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gariuys The arrogant sob attitude I work hard for my reallife money and cause I lucked out in real life people that are better at the game should bend over not only in real life but in game too is such bull.
I'm pretty sure that sentance doesn't make sense.
no skills, just luck.
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Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:17:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Nev Clavain on 21/03/2006 13:17:41
Originally by: Dave Day
Originally by: Zeonog I believe in the future, buying/selling game items for cash will be allowed for all mmorpg's. Its just a matter of time.
But why bother?? If I had enough money, I could pay every team at this year's World Cup to throw their matches in favour of England. Then I could run round in circles screaming that we won but knowing that really I just bought the result and the victory is hollow and meaningless. I just happened to have the most cash and into the bargain I ruined everyone else's enjoyment of the game. What's the point?
People behave like that 'in-game' all the time: they fight battles they cant lose, setup massive blobs next to newbie areas, strangle the market for their own profit, and thats all fair play. As soon as people who have achieved something 'real' with their life come in and start upsetting the balance with 'real currency' all of a sudden this kind of behaviour is 'pointless'.
The patterns of behaviour are the same, the method is different. If one is pointless so is the other, but the bottom line people like to win, and they will use the assets at their disposal to achieve this. Your analogy is somewhat limited also, as buying isk and ships doesn't necessarily equal 'win', you could lose all that money and ships easily. You must know how to use them to be effective, and that is still participating in the game - the fun part ppl might say.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Nev Clavain
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Zeonog Edited by: Zeonog on 21/03/2006 11:55:58 Main thing I see is, you can buy GTC and sell for isk, so complaining about being able to buy isk from ebay is rather amusing.
Can anyone say hypocritical?
This is extremely limiting cause no isk seller has a limetless need for GTCs. And it allows people with excess isk and a lack of reallife cash to play the game.
It also smacks of hypocrisy. If you are saying don't sell isk it upsets the game dynamic - then don't sell it yourself.
However if CCP came out and said the truth that would be fine:
"we are selling isk because we cannot stop it legally (because it is not illegal), we aren't prepared to throw money at tracking down and banning the main culprits, and we want a slice of the financial action as well."
If they cared about the game dynamic people keep harping on about, they simply wouldnt sell isk and add to the problem.
But that's not true, so you want CCP to lie to you. Cause you refuse to accept that they're doing what they can. And the sales of GTCs is a really minor issue which in their mind has more benefits for the players/game then drawbacks. Which isn't the case for large scale isk sales.
And you keep going on selling isk for GTCs. It's allowed cause its buying GTCs with isk. You might not notice the difference but it is there and the deciding factor. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |

Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Usul Faust
Originally by: Gariuys The arrogant sob attitude I work hard for my reallife money and cause I lucked out in real life people that are better at the game should bend over not only in real life but in game too is such bull.
I'm pretty sure that sentance doesn't make sense.
I explain it better then. I really dislike the attitude that people that are rich work harder for their money then those that are poor. I work hard for my money ( when not forum whoring ) too. Made some unlucky choices so I really don't have the cash others have ( not that I'm poor mind you, not by a long shot ) But cause your choices turned out luckier, or whatever other reasons that allow you to make more real life cash. You deserve to be better at EVE as well.
Being good at EVE should be based on actually being good at eve not on real life wallet size. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |

Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Nev Clavain
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Zeonog Edited by: Zeonog on 21/03/2006 11:55:58 Main thing I see is, you can buy GTC and sell for isk, so complaining about being able to buy isk from ebay is rather amusing.
Can anyone say hypocritical?
This is extremely limiting cause no isk seller has a limetless need for GTCs. And it allows people with excess isk and a lack of reallife cash to play the game.
It also smacks of hypocrisy. If you are saying don't sell isk it upsets the game dynamic - then don't sell it yourself.
However if CCP came out and said the truth that would be fine:
"we are selling isk because we cannot stop it legally (because it is not illegal), we aren't prepared to throw money at tracking down and banning the main culprits, and we want a slice of the financial action as well."
If they cared about the game dynamic people keep harping on about, they simply wouldnt sell isk and add to the problem.
But that's not true, so you want CCP to lie to you. Cause you refuse to accept that they're doing what they can. And the sales of GTCs is a really minor issue which in their mind has more benefits for the players/game then drawbacks. Which isn't the case for large scale isk sales.
And you keep going on selling isk for GTCs. It's allowed cause its buying GTCs with isk. You might not notice the difference but it is there and the deciding factor.
I accept there is a difference in method, however the net market effect is the same.
the transaction
cash ----> isk
is not allowed in EVE
however if you exchange your cash, for something else equally external to the game ( a time card) then you can swap that for isk. Ultimately what occurs is
cash ----> gtc -----> isk
Can you see how the same course is being followed, just CCP get a slice. If there are problems with the transaction
cash ---> isk
effecting the game mechanic, then without any argument it is a problem that CCP themselves contributes to. In that scenario I don't respect anything they have to say about isk sales.
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Nev Clavain
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:24:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Usul Faust
Originally by: Gariuys The arrogant sob attitude I work hard for my reallife money and cause I lucked out in real life people that are better at the game should bend over not only in real life but in game too is such bull.
I'm pretty sure that sentance doesn't make sense.
I explain it better then. I really dislike the attitude that people that are rich work harder for their money then those that are poor. I work hard for my money ( when not forum whoring ) too. Made some unlucky choices so I really don't have the cash others have ( not that I'm poor mind you, not by a long shot ) But cause your choices turned out luckier, or whatever other reasons that allow you to make more real life cash. You deserve to be better at EVE as well.
Being good at EVE should be based on actually being good at eve not on real life wallet size.
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Zhuge Liang

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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:27:00 -
[47]
No sticky, and stop spamming the same topic.
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