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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8782
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Querns wrote:Honestly, if you own or rent space in nullsec and aren't going to use the ESS, that just means higher values for LP for those of us who are brave enough to shoulder the risk. If you are so risk adverse that you can't handle the potential loss, then I recommend you head back to highsec where you will be swaddled and kept safe from such a horror. Last I saw using ESS was considered goon-rogering.
**** EDITED *** ISD Flidais Asagiri: Curse work around. My EVE Videos |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Querns wrote:Honestly, if you own or rent space in nullsec and aren't going to use the ESS, that just means higher values for LP for those of us who are brave enough to shoulder the risk. If you are so risk adverse that you can't handle the potential loss, then I recommend you head back to highsec where you will be swaddled and kept safe from such a horror. Last I saw using ESS was considered goon-rodgering. I'm working on that. :sun: This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
Billy Hix wrote: With luck SoniClover will learn from this and use F&I in future rather than feeling he knows best and getting dragged through the mud.
The player interaction with the devs is EVE's very own healing ointment for those not yet quite enlightened.
However, I greatly love these new features, they are very creative and will allow for all sorts of nefarious shenanigans, exactly as planned.
Also, I have abiding respect for the Devs for being so responsive to 'signals from the user community' and presenting their ideas, suggestions and considerations.
I want to be a voice for all the great things the Devs are doing because sometimes the comments we, the pampered user base, make are less than totally charitable and they often ignore the 99% of things that are going fabulously for that 1% of the time where there's a hiccup in the system.
Now, the only thing I'd love to see is my idea for a module, launched at fanfest [where it occurred to me]:
put a module on a ship, load a script into the module. Now your ship shows up on D-scan as a totally different kind of ship. A titan might scan as a Retriever, a Hulk might look like a Moros. All kinds of good stuff can happen.
CCP Fozzie mentioned they were thinking about something like that already and I think he means the new mobile scan inhibitor. I love that device, that's going to do nice things in big fleet fights.
My module would be on an individual level.
It would be great if that module become a thing :-). |

S1euth
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
38
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
ESS changes are great. Thanks for responding to our feedback and making it more likely for these to be used and drive PVP content. |

Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
175
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Querns wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Querns wrote:Honestly, if you own or rent space in nullsec and aren't going to use the ESS, that just means higher values for LP for those of us who are brave enough to shoulder the risk. If you are so risk adverse that you can't handle the potential loss, then I recommend you head back to highsec where you will be swaddled and kept safe from such a horror. Last I saw using ESS was considered goon-rodgering. I'm working on that. :sun:
You guys need to develop your own 'assymmetrical warfare squads' with unaligned corps, with cell-based insurgencies instigated against various civilian, high-income generating zones of enemy OTEC members. Sponsor these squads to leech towers, harass piraters, and generally disrupt life.
I feel like there are real life equivalents of these kinds of psychological and espionage operations in real life that could be useful as an analog for Eve.
Example: Prior to a big expected supercap fight involving your chosen target OTEC frenemy, scramble your squads of covertly sponsored blockade runners to place 200+ siphons throughout frenemy space where they harvest drugs, dyspro and other juicy moon goo. Have a handful of people drop/destroy ESS's throughout their top 10 ratting systems during the fight, bubble any gates that need to be used to return to jump bridges. |

Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I really like many of these new deployables! Excellent Job CCP.
A few points I want to bring up that weren't addressed on the ESS:
1.) The ESS needs a means to inhibit it's distribution timer. I tested this last night on Sisi, and this is what I found: I can land next to the ESS and immediately hit access and choose take all (starting the 3.5 minute timer to grab the isk-tags) or I may choose share all (starting the timer to share the loot). There are only two ways to stop me: a.) destroy my ship. b.) get me to leave the proximity of the ESS (15 km radius). It would be very nice if a mechanic existed where a player could stop this count-down. I can think of several ways to do it:
Option 1: Target the ESS. This would force those on grid to chase off anyone that's preventing the timer from counting down. Option 2: Damage the ESS, were every the damage delivered creates a proportional extension in the delivery times. (example, +60 seconds for every 6000 damage it receives). Option 3: Counter-access the ESS. Allow a pilot that lands next to the ESS to access it and choose "stop" to prevent the ESS from completing its timer. The means you and the other pilot would both be within 15 km's of the ESS.
Note: Ideally the ESS would name the pilot responsible for activating it (as you can't tell). And ideally the ESS would name the pilot responsible for hindering the timer from counting down.
2.) As pointed out, if someone can successfully deploy this inside the Sun, where your ship will be ejected out upon landing, this might be considered an exploit. I'll try doing this on Sisi tonight (if I can find a system where I have the sun's center bookmarked).
Can the ESS deployer scoop the ESS to prevent the timer? Other options might include using Electronic warfare mods, or running another mods on the ESS (run hacking to counter hack, Run ECCM to strengthen it). A counter is needed to extend the timer when the ESS is contested.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19022
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Since the blog actually doesn't mention it outright, I have to ask: is the 5% nerf to bounties still in?
If soGǪMag's wrote:Why does the ESS require a 5% nerf to bounties? GǪthis.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Inspiration
123
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
I said many things in the threads leading up to this....and lucky for our readers, I will not repeat it all. I just want to quote something and then comment on it!
"Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect."
I know why this is done, but seriously take a step back and think about this.
If a player launches an ESS and after some ratting wants to collect. Then the very structure he deployed will scramble him? Risk vs reward some will cry...but if i beat you senseless with stick, does that really mean you should get more in life?
What a wonderful and logical design....it must be plain obvious to everyone by now. This feature alone proves that everything leading up to this decision must be severely flawed to make this behavior even necessary! I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
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Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
120
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Querns wrote:Honestly, if you own or rent space in nullsec and aren't going to use the ESS, that just means higher values for LP for those of us who are brave enough to shoulder the risk. If you are so risk adverse that you can't handle the potential loss, then I recommend you head back to highsec where you will be swaddled and kept safe from such a horror.
Kind of forgetting one aspect. These LPGÇÖs arenGÇÖt being nerfed in any other area as far as IGÇÖm aware. So the value of these LPGÇÖs will in essence go down from current value due to the new faucet. Sure, the less people that use this thing, the less decrease in the LP valueGǪBUT there will still be a decrease. So in my opinion, wellGǪ letGÇÖs just say you didnGÇÖt change my opinion.
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Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
175
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Do all racial types each store collected reward pools separately? Or if I drop a Republic Fleet ESS after a Caldari Navy ESS was just scooped and not shared, can I then take all the stored system rewards? |

Inspiration
123
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
The ESS discussion took all the attention before, so i neglected to say something about the Mobile Scan Inhibitor.
I understand trying to throw in something odd, but here is the weird decision with regard to this deployable:
When active, the Mobile Scan Inhibitor will prevent the operation of both combat probes and directional scanners by or against anything within its 30km radius. The structure itself is always visible to both probes and directional scans, and is extremely easy to pinpoint using probes.
Why make it visible at all, if it is capable of hiding everything around it? This doesn't make sense, certainly not from the users perspective. Warping towards it at range will reveal everything that is there, without the users seeing any Intel themselves. This block suggests it works by nullifying all signals in its influence sphere which should make itself also undetectable.
It is probably done to counter complains that it might otherwise be too powerful, but i disagree. From a user point of view it should stay hidden, else it would have very limited application. The most logical place to use for such a structure is as a rally point or as a way to hide your presence in WH space. The first use is severely compromised by its visibility, the second one is downright nullified.
Which essentially leaves one use left. Using it in say missions or behind bubbles as a trap of some sort to catch anyone that comes to inspect it. This makes it a deplorable bait ship and an obvious one at that....in essence rendering it useless. I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
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Sid Crash
135
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:Mobile Structures were first introduced in Rubicon 1.0. Now it's time to add to the collection! In Rubicon 1.1 there will be 5 more Mobile Structures being added to your arsenal, and CCP Fozzie has written a dev blog to tell you all about it. Head on over here to read it. Tell us what you think! Leave your constructive feedback in this thread.
"CCP loves teh blob", noted.
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Zircon Dasher
351
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
It would have been great to get more info on siphon usage. I think you erred a little too far on the side of caution, but I can understand the concern.
Nice changes on the ESS!
+1 from me Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
Inspiration wrote:The ESS discussion took all the attention before, so i neglected to say something about the Mobile Scan Inhibitor.
I understand trying to throw in something odd, but here is the weird decision with regard to this deployable:
When active, the Mobile Scan Inhibitor will prevent the operation of both combat probes and directional scanners by or against anything within its 30km radius. The structure itself is always visible to both probes and directional scans, and is extremely easy to pinpoint using probes.
Why make it visible at all, if it is capable of hiding everything around it? This doesn't make sense, certainly not from the users perspective. Warping towards it at range will reveal everything that is there, without the users seeing any Intel themselves. This block suggests it works by nullifying all signals in its influence sphere which should make itself also undetectable.
It is probably done to counter complains that it might otherwise be too powerful, but i disagree. From a user point of view it should stay hidden, else it would have very limited application. The most logical place to use for such a structure is as a rally point or as a way to hide your presence in WH space. The first use is severely compromised by its visibility, the second one is downright nullified.
Which essentially leaves one use left. Using it in say missions or behind bubbles as a trap of some sort to catch anyone that comes to inspect it. This makes it a deplorable bait ship and an obvious one at that....in essence rendering it useless. The MSI is a lot more useful in nullsec than it is in wormhole space. Because of immediate local in nullsec, it's not a question of who is in system, it's a question of what ships are you in and what you are doing. Dropping a MSI makes finding the answers to those questions more difficult, and makes finding said answers involve risk. (What's on grid with this thing? Is is a hauler? Is it an RSB'd daredevil and 20 brawler BS ready to make me into meat paste? It is a mystery!) Making the answers to those questions impossible to find would have been way too powerful. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: If a player launches an ESS and after some ratting wants to collect. Then the very structure he deployed will scramble him?!
I support this objection.
It makes no sense for the deployer to be scrambled by his own device. That just doesn't compute.
It's like you're walking up to your car. There's a guy lunging out at you with a knife. You have to wait 30 seconds for your car to open the door before you can jump in and race to safety.
I can see why it's done but the feature should not work like that for the pilot dropping the device. It is not reasonable to assume you'd deploy a device that would then prevent you from escaping.
Unless
you explained it as being badly designed by the corporation making the device. I want to see the hero who makes that argument.
Solution, for we are nothing if not the combination of our collective intelligence.
The mobile structure works exactly as designed
BUT
On deploying the mobile structure, the structure drops a key fob into the hold of the pilot deploying it. The key fob has one of those lovely icons the graphics gods in Reykjavik so generously share with us, it has a nice and cool description that makes fun of somebody, it weighs nothing
AND
it acts as a key fob. As long as the pilot has that thing in his hold when he's collecting from the device, he is not going to be scrambled by the mobile unit.
The mobile unit delivers one, and only one, key fob to the pilot deploying the unit. The pilot can put the key fob into the hold of another ship he's using, but it is bound to him [somehow], he can't pass it on. It can't be dumped in a jet can, traded, contracted or sold.
This way the internal logic the fair gods in far Reykjavik have built into this device remains intact. The pilot will be susceptible to the influence of the mobile unit, should they happen not to have the key fob on them, but if they do, they are not hampered by the device they themselves deployed.
Now, tell me that is not a nice and elegant solution to a pesky problem. Everybody gets something and we don't have to make it so as if our feelings are hurt. |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
Incidentally, does the MSI have a graphical effect (like a bubble) for the range of the device? If so, I'd like to see a screenshot of it in action. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4811
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 21:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:It makes no sense for the deployer to be scrambled by his own device. That just doesn't compute.
It's like you're walking up to your car. There's a guy lunging out at you with a knife. You have to wait 30 seconds for your car to open the door before you can jump in and race to safety.
I can see why it's done but the feature should not work like that for the pilot dropping the device. It is not reasonable to assume you'd deploy a device that would then prevent you from escaping.
Unless
you explained it as being badly designed by the corporation making the device. I want to see the hero who makes that argument.
The Empires feel their control slipping away. This is one of their efforts at saying, "FGÇô you, Empyreans!"
It's not your device. It's the empire's. You deploy it, they get to determine the rules of how they pay out. So it's more like the poker machine: when you want to pay out you press the button and wait for the attendant to arrive. All the while you are vulnerable because the stabby guy with the knife is watching as you receive your thousand dollar winnings.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4811
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 21:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:This is what bad game design looks like.
How is "Share" vs "Take All" bad game design? Are you scared that someone who is not friendly to you could cause you economic harm? Does this structure diminish your feeling of safety in deep blue null sec? Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1323
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 22:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Meh, Rubicon 1.1 is about overheat everything not some stupid boxes in space. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4460
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 22:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Since the blog actually doesn't mention it outright, I have to ask: is the 5% nerf to bounties still in? If soGǪ Mag's wrote:Why does the ESS require a 5% nerf to bounties? GǪthis.
i'd like an answer to this question as well. Why a 5% nerf to the ONE bit of null sec pve content that provides an income to the rank and file players who are buying ships to get blown up in fleet fights (thus powering the EVE economy). That income is already balanced by the fact that ratters get killed by raiders and is not all that competative (when factoring in risk, effort and distance from market) with the Sister's missions that are sucking up all the Mobile tractor uses.....
That 5% nerf might not seem like much in a vacuum, but it's just another thing to push ratters out of null and into safety, and this is terrible bad for the game. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8782
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 23:14:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Since the blog actually doesn't mention it outright, I have to ask: is the 5% nerf to bounties still in? If soGǪ Mag's wrote:Why does the ESS require a 5% nerf to bounties? GǪthis. From what I understand it is. So yeah, that. My EVE Videos |

Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
361
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 23:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:This is what bad game design looks like. How is "Share" vs "Take All" bad game design?

The concept of sharing vs taking is always good. Reducing it down to pressing buttons literally labeled as such I would say is a complete and epic failure.
It's kind of like saying: "Here's your god damn ******* conflict driver. We know it drives conflict because it has two conflicting buttons attached and an incentive for using it."
It feels very forced and weak. It also makes no sense at all.
Enjoy it, if that's your thing. I don't rat now and I certainly won't be any more likely to rat once this comes out. Not an exciting thing.
"Oh man, I just can't wait to try this new ESS structure! I have not gone ratting in months! It will be amazing to put a hefty percentage of my loot into a styrofoam space box."
Yeah, that really gets my juices flowing. Oh wait.
The only thing this adds to my game is that I could hot drop the people dumb enough to use one. But if they are dumb enough to use one, they were probably going to get hot dropped anyways so it's hard to tell... |

Dant Perst
Dark Matter Industrial Corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 23:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ok...mobile structures great. However, as they fit into a cargo hold, they should be "scoopable" to cargo hold -- just like abandoned drones...if reinforced...not so...that's fine...but just sitting there abandoned, no reinforcement...no! Cmon...the uni is cluttered enough! It's as bad as seeing all the wrecks on DSCAN and not being able to scan them down and convert them. Just adding to the mess. If you can see it, you should be able to scan it down and do something with it.
And please; attack a mobile and hope for a cargo drop, but wait....48 hours...are you kidding? |

Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 00:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Inspiration wrote: When active, the Mobile Scan Inhibitor will prevent the operation of both combat probes and directional scanners by or against anything within its 30km radius. The structure itself is always visible to both probes and directional scans, and is extremely easy to pinpoint using probes.
Why make it visible at all, if it is capable of hiding everything around it? This doesn't make sense, certainly not from the users perspective. Warping towards it at range will reveal everything that is there, without the users seeing any Intel themselves. This block suggests it works by nullifying all signals in its influence sphere which should make itself also undetectable.
A scanner will most likely know that it is fooled by a mobile device. The device doesnt remove the signals from the ether, it just disrupts them so much that your ships scanner cant tell you more than "there must be stuff there, all signals are messed up" |

Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1442
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 01:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
The ESS blueprint should be BPCs that come from the LP store. Charge ISK and LP. Get an ISK and LP sink while still allowing it to be playermade.
Also preserves the lore as they can come from the same Navy LP stores you are grinding for. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |

Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
124
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 01:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Since the blog actually doesn't mention it outright, I have to ask: is the 5% nerf to bounties still in? If soGǪ Mag's wrote:Why does the ESS require a 5% nerf to bounties? GǪthis. The description of the ESS in this dev blog was atrocious. Here's this new module. Go read a different dev blog and sift through a hundred page thread to figure out what it actually does in its current incarnation.
In the future, please list the entirety of the current state of the proposition as it differs from Tranquility. This will give us an accurate baseline for further discussion of the topic.
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
303
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 06:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
500k subscribers, 10k deployments per day = less than 2% of players use deployable structure (one player can use it multiple times per day).
Mobile siphons: 240 billions stolen / 60 days since expansion = 4 billions per day. Single headquarters incursion fleet is ~50 times more effective and make the same money in 30 minutes (usually there are 5 HQ fleets running).
Could be much more interesting to know - how many toons use sleeve tattoos and cybernetic arms? |

Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
143
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 09:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ess , so contrived.
Eve world has the technology to scramble any ship But its only ever used in structures that wait for you to ask to be scrambled.
If scramble all technology is available then why is it not available in aggresive mods and structures ?
Please stop all this contrived nonsence where you design in one foreseen mode of gameplay.
Make simple structures and enable the sandbox you like to bang on about.
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Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 10:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:Ess , so contrived.
I'm not saying you don't have a point, could you maybe phrase it so that your point of view would meet with acceptance rather than a defensive stance that will have people push the argument away instead?
There are so many ways you can voice that argument. Language is so diverse, you can put the letters in any sequence you want.
"Life is wasted on the living" [Zaphod Beeblebrox IV]
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Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
339
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 10:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:For example the depot. It is an awesome structure but of limited use in fleets, it doesn't scale very well. Now imagine they would make it standing based and a single depot could supply a whole fleet with ammo and fitting service... i don't think that we will ever see this since it would be OP for such a small and cheap module.
After Rubicon 1.1 there will be three different siphons in the game. what makes you think there won't ever be more than one type of depot in the game in the future? Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
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