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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Drop Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Energy Grid Upgrades from requirements.
Not needed to fit.
They should be under mastery anyway, not required. |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
45
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
"Reduces the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers by 2% per skill level."
"Skill at installing power upgrades e.g. capacitor battery and power diagnostic units. 5% reduction in CPU needs of modules requiring Energy Grid Upgrades per skill level."
so skills that affect the fitting ability of a ship shouldn't be there.... really?
By the same token i demand that all none ship skills be removed from all ships and we should all get an infinite amount of of isk and ccp should send us all a keg of ale once a month to say thanks for playing the game |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2672
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Posted - 2014.01.31 13:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
If they made new melee weapons systems we could have ships with spinning saws and stuff. Oh god. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gawain Edmond wrote:"Reduces the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers by 2% per skill level."
"Skill at installing power upgrades e.g. capacitor battery and power diagnostic units. 5% reduction in CPU needs of modules requiring Energy Grid Upgrades per skill level."
so skills that affect the fitting ability of a ship shouldn't be there.... really?
By the same token i demand that all none ship skills be removed from all ships and we should all get an infinite amount of of isk and ccp should send us all a keg of ale once a month to say thanks for playing the game
Fitting skills are under mastery for most if not all other ships, not under required. There are many more than just these 2 skills that effect fitting if you do some research. Just look at other ships. |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
50
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
believe it or not i was pointing out how bad this idea was as i could hardly believe you were serious but the skills that are needed to fly a ship are not just the ship skill itself the support skills are part of the requirements so that you're able to make use of the ship and the fittings it also puts a limit on how quickly someone can get into a ship if you look at T2 ships you'll find they all NEED at least 1 support skill to fly if we were to have this idea of yours low sec would be filled with newbies (like yourself) flying around in big expensive things thinking that they'll be unbeatable and getting blown up none stop they'd leave the game and never come back which is a bad thing. Your idea is without merit, it fixes no problems and is generally bad learn how to fly frigates properly before you start looking at flying T2 battleships around
Edit: ok since you edited your post while i was replying i'll contradict you
hac: cerb: science, power grid management, cap management, weapon upgrades Hic: devoter: navigation cpu management graviton physics (though needed for the bubble thing), navigation logistics: guardian signature analysis cpu management long range targeting
and i'll let you look up the rest but all T2 ships have skills that are not needed to fit the ship they're to increase training time to make it so that you have to invest time effort and isk to fly a ship and so that pilots are prepared to fly a ship and have some vague ability (skill point wise) to fit and use it |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2384
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can you even fit the things without AWU V?
It's easily one of the best level V skills. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1023
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Actually if you look at Tech 2 ships, most of them have some kind of fitting skill required. Or other odd skill like Long Range Targetting V for Logi. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gawain Edmond wrote:believe it or not i was pointing out how bad this idea was as i could hardly believe you were serious but the skills that are needed to fly a ship are not just the ship skill itself the support skills are part of the requirements so that you're able to make use of the ship and the fittings it also puts a limit on how quickly someone can get into a ship if you look at T2 ships you'll find they all NEED at least 1 support skill to fly if we were to have this idea of yours low sec would be filled with newbies (like yourself) flying around in big expensive things thinking that they'll be unbeatable and getting blown up none stop they'd leave the game and never come back which is a bad thing. Your idea is without merit, it fixes no problems and is generally bad learn how to fly frigates properly before you start looking at flying T2 battleships around
Edit: ok since you edited your post while i was replying i'll contradict you
hac: cerb: science, power grid management, cap management, weapon upgrades Hic: devoter: navigation cpu management graviton physics (though needed for the bubble thing), navigation logistics: guardian signature analysis cpu management long range targeting
and i'll let you look up the rest but all T2 ships have skills that are not needed to fit the ship they're to increase training time to make it so that you have to invest time effort and isk to fly a ship and so that pilots are prepared to fly a ship and have some vague ability (skill point wise) to fit and use it
True, you can fly a battleship in what 15 days if you really wanted to. (i didn't load it up in evemon for time required.)
Doesn't mean you should. |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
163
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Posted - 2014.01.31 15:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
371
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Can you even fit the things without AWU V?
It's easily one of the best level V skills.
I am guessing if you slap on enough pg mods/rigs you can
This, imo, is just bad. But I am of the common mindset too many fitting mods is usually the sign of a crap fit/lack of fitting skill. There are exceptions to this rule ofc....but not many I have seen. |
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them.
You just proved my point that it's a fitting skill and should be under mastery.
And no you don't. Fit up a Vargur in pyfa. You don't need it anymore than you need t2 weapons to fly a BS.
It's a fitting skill and should be under mastery.
It has nothing to do with flying the ship itself.
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them.
No, you don't. PYFA or EFT, then come back. |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
163
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Posted - 2014.01.31 18:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them. No, you don't. PYFA or EFT, then come back. It's called bastion, it's rather integral. |
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
29
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why not just call this topic "Reduce training time for Marauders"? That's what you're really asking for, after all. AWU and EGU are there to increase the overall training time required to get into a Marauder, not because they're "needed to fit." This is exactly like the majority of T2 ship classes:
- HACs also require EGU V, as well as Weapons Upgrades V and Energy Management IV;
- AFs require Engineering V and Mechanics V;
- Recons require Electronics Upgrades V and Signature Analysis V;
- Interceptors require Evasive Maneuvering V;
- Logis require Signature Analysis V and Long Range Targeting V;
- EAFs require Long Range Targeting V;
- Command Ships require Leadership V, Warfare Link Specialist IV, and all four "x Warfare" skills to V, including the ones that allow access to unbonused links on a given ship (e.g. Siege Warfare on an Astarte).
Arguably, none of these are strictly necessary for the operation of the hull. They're in the requirements purely to increase the requisite training time. Why should Marauders be any different? If you don't feel like training for one, use a faction BS. Next? |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them. No, you don't. PYFA or EFT, then come back. It's called bastion, it's rather integral.
Um, no, it's not intregal, and also has nothing to do with ship requirements.
Doubt I'd even use it. By PYFA they don't do crap.
You still didn't fit in EFT/PYFA and are just proving your ignorance.
Again, fitting even with baston. 10% free cpu, 35% free grid.
[Vargur, Vargur] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Shield Boost Amplifier II X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L Bastion Module I Drone Link Augmentor II [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Projectile Collision Accelerator II Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Warrior II x5 Valkyrie II x5
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Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
29
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them. No, you don't. PYFA or EFT, then come back. It's called bastion, it's rather integral. Um, no, it's not intregal, and also has nothing to do with ship requirements. Doubt I'd even use it. By PYFA they don't do crap. You still didn't fit in EFT/PYFA and are just proving your ignorance. Again, fitting even with baston. 10% free cpu, 35% free grid.
But good luck actually fitting the Bastion without Advanced Weapons Upgrades V and Energy Grid Upgrades V.
EDIT: Since, you know, those are required skills for Bastion, as well. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Divi Filus wrote:Why not just call this topic "Reduce training time for Marauders"? That's what you're really asking for, after all. AWU and EGU are there to increase the overall training time required to get into a Marauder, not because they're "needed to fit." This is exactly like the majority of T2 ship classes:
- HACs also require EGU V, as well as Weapons Upgrades V and Energy Management IV;
- AFs require Engineering V and Mechanics V;
- Recons require Electronics Upgrades V and Signature Analysis V;
- Interceptors require Evasive Maneuvering V;
- Logis require Signature Analysis V and Long Range Targeting V;
- EAFs require Long Range Targeting V;
- Command Ships require Leadership V, Warfare Link Specialist IV, and all four "x Warfare" skills to V, including the ones that allow access to unbonused links on a given ship (e.g. Siege Warfare on an Astarte).
Arguably, none of these are strictly necessary for the operation of the hull. They're in the requirements to purely to increase the requisite training time. Why should Marauders be any different? If you don't feel like training for one, use a faction BS. Next?
None of which have anything to do with the ship itself.
Also what's it to you. Do you make the decisions for CCP? Or you just infantile. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Divi Filus wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them. No, you don't. PYFA or EFT, then come back. It's called bastion, it's rather integral. Um, no, it's not intregal, and also has nothing to do with ship requirements. Doubt I'd even use it. By PYFA they don't do crap. You still didn't fit in EFT/PYFA and are just proving your ignorance. Again, fitting even with baston. 10% free cpu, 35% free grid. But good luck actually fitting the Bastion without Advanced Weapons Upgrades V and Energy Grid Upgrades V. EDIT: Since, you know, those are required skills for Bastion, as well.
You just "ass"ume I need a baston module. |
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
29
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Divi Filus wrote:Why not just call this topic "Reduce training time for Marauders"? That's what you're really asking for, after all. AWU and EGU are there to increase the overall training time required to get into a Marauder, not because they're "needed to fit." This is exactly like the majority of T2 ship classes:
- HACs also require EGU V, as well as Weapons Upgrades V and Energy Management IV;
- AFs require Engineering V and Mechanics V;
- Recons require Electronics Upgrades V and Signature Analysis V;
- Interceptors require Evasive Maneuvering V;
- Logis require Signature Analysis V and Long Range Targeting V;
- EAFs require Long Range Targeting V;
- Command Ships require Leadership V, Warfare Link Specialist IV, and all four "x Warfare" skills to V, including the ones that allow access to unbonused links on a given ship (e.g. Siege Warfare on an Astarte).
Arguably, none of these are strictly necessary for the operation of the hull. They're in the requirements to purely to increase the requisite training time. Why should Marauders be any different? If you don't feel like training for one, use a faction BS. Next? None of which have anything to do with the ship itself.
Which is kind of exactly my point.
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Also what's it to you. Do you make the decisions for CCP? Or you just infantile.
Oh sorry, I forgot the part where no one is allowed to point out why your thinking is flawed and your changes are pointless and unnecessary. That's on me.
Arsine Mayhem wrote:You just "ass"ume I need a baston module.
No, I didn't. You're the one who tried to prove AWU V and EGU V were not necessary to fit Bastion. You were quite extraordinarily wrong. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Divi Filus wrote: No, I didn't. You're the one who tried to prove AWU V and EGU V were not necessary to fit Bastion. You were quite extraordinarily wrong.
I didn't say anything about a baston module, and just threw one on the fitting to show grid/cpu are fine for fitting pretty much anything.
The thread is ship requirements. So why are you turning it into a baston module? |
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Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
29
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Posted - 2014.01.31 19:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fine, let's stick to ship requirements. Most or all T2 ships have skill requirements that do not pertain to the ship hulls themselves. These requirements are not accidental. Why is this a problem for Marauders and not for all the other T2 ship classes I named above? |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Divi Filus wrote:Fine, let's stick to ship requirements. Most or all T2 ships have skill requirements that do not pertain to the ship hulls themselves. These requirements are not accidental. Why is this a problem for Marauders and not for all the other T2 ship classes I named above?
Well, do you follow blindly and not question anything?
Sorry I have a mind of my own and logic to go along with it.
None of the ships you mentioned that have skills listed under required should be that way. I didn't look through all the ship requirements before I posted this. CCP knows what other ships
There should be no armor, drone, electronic systems, engineering, gunnery, missile, on and on, skills under requirements ships. That is what mastery is for.
There is no logic in adding random skills under a ships required section.
I can fly an archon without advanced weapon upgrades V (just an example, plug any other skill in there you like). Whether I do or not "should" be my decision. I don't need anyone to hold my hand or tell me how to fit my ship. I can blow crap up on my own just fine. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1500
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
I agree this doesn't have anything to do with the bastion module. Marauders are certainly very powerful ships even without using bastion mode.
But guess what? Marauders have required those two skills since the day they were introduced, long before the new shiny bastion module came around.
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Fitting skills are under mastery for most if not all other ships, not under required. There are many more than just these 2 skills that effect fitting if you do some research. Just look at other ships.
Looks like Marauders are the only ship that has fitting skills as a requirement.
All t2 ships require one or more core skill at level 5 to train them. For marauders, those skills just happen to be fitting skills. The training path for marauders is in no way unique or unusual. This is not a difficult concept. The fact that you don't like it or don't want to train those skills is completely irrelevant. You could just as easily be saying that you shouldn't need battleship 5 to fly them either, because CCP could easily just apply bonuses based on two independent skills. Deciding what prerequisites are appropriate is at their discretion, but that does not mean its an arbitrary decision, as you seem to believe. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
29
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Posted - 2014.01.31 19:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Divi Filus wrote:Fine, let's stick to ship requirements. Most or all T2 ships have skill requirements that do not pertain to the ship hulls themselves. These requirements are not accidental. Why is this a problem for Marauders and not for all the other T2 ship classes I named above? Well, do you follow blindly and not question anything? Sorry I have a mind of my own and logic to go along with it. None of the ships you mentioned that have skills listed under required should be that way. I didn't look through all the ship requirements before I posted this. CCP knows what other ships There should be no armor, drone, electronic systems, engineering, gunnery, missile, on and on, skills under requirements ships. That is what mastery is for.There is no logic in adding random skills under a ships required section. I can fly an archon without advanced weapon upgrades V (just an example, plug any other skill in there you like). Whether I do or not "should" be my decision. I don't need anyone to hold my hand or tell me how to fit my ship. I can blow crap up on my own just fine.
Of course I follow blindly and question nothing. That's why I've been totally onboard with your proposal from the start and haven't questioned it once.
The added requirements are in there to increase training time. That's not changing any time soon. In fact, a number of those requirements I mentioned were added in only a few months ago in order to offset training time decreases that came with tiericide. Personally, I'm fine with the requirements. You invest more than ISK in a T2 ship, you invest time (and SP) as well. If you don't want to do that, you fly a faction variant. Working as intendedGäó.
If you have a problem with the way things work, that's fine and you can say so. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree with you (hint: we don't). And one way or another, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this particular change.
EDIT: Oh, and if you really want to insist that there's "no logic" in these requirements, then I really don't know if I can take you seriously. Just because you don't agree with the logic doesn't mean it isn't there. |
Seranova Farreach
630
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
only a fool would fly a maurauder with out bastion now a days (excluding non VG incursions) _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Divi Filus wrote: If you have a problem with the way things work, that's fine and you can say so. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree with you (hint: we don't). And one way or another, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this particular change.
Who are you? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
269
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Just bite it and train the dam skills already, you'll be better for it. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
29
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Posted - 2014.01.31 20:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Or you just infantile.
Arsine Mayhem wrote:You just "ass"ume I need a baston module.
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Well, do you follow blindly and not question anything?
Sorry I have a mind of my own and logic to go along with it.
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Who are you?
Ah, ad hominem...the last bastion of weak argumentation. No pun intended.
Well, I've said my bit. You have fun waiting for CCP to change the skill requirements for all T2s again. Me, I think I'll go fly the Golem I actually took time to train for. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:only a fool would fly a maurauder with out bastion now a days (excluding non VG incursions)
You fly your ship.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Just bite it and train the dam skills already, you'll be better for it.
That's not the point of the thread.
I have it partly trained, but I keep switching around. I will get it trained if I play that long, and it would have been done years ago if the game was entertaining enough. If I'm not playing I close the account so I don't have to think about it anymore.
All of which is irrelevant to the fact, requirements that are not required. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1500
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:All of which is irrelevant to the fact, requirements that are not required.
Sour grapes. How is putting skill reqs on marauders any different then any other skill requirements on anything? "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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