"Reduces the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers by 2% per skill level."

"Skill at installing power upgrades e.g. capacitor battery and power diagnostic units. 5% reduction in CPU needs of modules requiring Energy Grid Upgrades per skill level."

so skills that affect the fitting ability of a ship shouldn't be there.... really?

By the same token i demand that all none ship skills be removed from all ships and we should all get an infinite amount of of isk and ccp should send us all a keg of ale once a month to say thanks for playing the game

believe it or not i was pointing out how bad this idea was as i could hardly believe you were serious but the skills that are needed to fly a ship are not just the ship skill itself the support skills are part of the requirements so that you're able to make use of the ship and the fittings it also puts a limit on how quickly someone can get into a ship if you look at T2 ships you'll find they all NEED at least 1 support skill to fly if we were to have this idea of yours low sec would be filled with newbies (like yourself) flying around in big expensive things thinking that they'll be unbeatable and getting blown up none stop they'd leave the game and never come back which is a bad thing. Your idea is without merit, it fixes no problems and is generally bad learn how to fly frigates properly before you start looking at flying T2 battleships around

Edit: ok since you edited your post while i was replying i'll contradict you

hac: cerb: science, power grid management, cap management, weapon upgrades
Hic: devoter: navigation cpu management graviton physics (though needed for the bubble thing), navigation
logistics: guardian signature analysis cpu management long range targeting

and i'll let you look up the rest but all T2 ships have skills that are not needed to fit the ship they're to increase training time to make it so that you have to invest time effort and isk to fly a ship and so that pilots are prepared to fly a ship and have some vague ability (skill point wise) to fit and use it

Can you even fit the things without AWU V?

It's easily one of the best level V skills.

You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them.

You need AWU to use marauders even if it wasn't required to fly them.

No, you don't. PYFA or EFT, then come back.

It's called bastion, it's rather integral.

Um, no, it's not intregal, and also has nothing to do with ship requirements.

Doubt I'd even use it. By PYFA they don't do crap.

You still didn't fit in EFT/PYFA and are just proving your ignorance.

Again, fitting even with baston. 10% free cpu, 35% free grid.

Why not just call this topic "Reduce training time for Marauders"? That's what you're really asking for, after all. AWU and EGU are there to increase the overall training time required to get into a Marauder, not because they're "needed to fit." This is exactly like the majority of T2 ship classes:

• HACs also require EGU V, as well as Weapons Upgrades V and Energy Management IV;
• AFs require Engineering V and Mechanics V;
• Recons require Electronics Upgrades V and Signature Analysis V;
• Interceptors require Evasive Maneuvering V;
• Logis require Signature Analysis V and Long Range Targeting V;
• EAFs require Long Range Targeting V;
• Command Ships require Leadership V, Warfare Link Specialist IV, and all four "x Warfare" skills to V, including the ones that allow access to unbonused links on a given ship (e.g. Siege Warfare on an Astarte).

Arguably, none of these are strictly necessary for the operation of the hull. They're in the requirements to purely to increase the requisite training time. Why should Marauders be any different? If you don't feel like training for one, use a faction BS. Next?

But good luck actually fitting the Bastion without Advanced Weapons Upgrades V and Energy Grid Upgrades V.

EDIT: Since, you know, those are required skills for Bastion, as well.

None of which have anything to do with the ship itself.

Also what's it to you. Do you make the decisions for CCP? Or you just infantile.

You just "ass"ume I need a baston module.

No, I didn't. You're the one who tried to prove AWU V and EGU V were not necessary to fit Bastion. You were quite extraordinarily wrong.

Fine, let's stick to ship requirements. Most or all T2 ships have skill requirements that do not pertain to the ship hulls themselves. These requirements are not accidental. Why is this a problem for Marauders and not for all the other T2 ship classes I named above?

Fitting skills are under mastery for most if not all other ships, not under required. There are many more than just these 2 skills that effect fitting if you do some research. Just look at other ships.

Looks like Marauders are the only ship that has fitting skills as a requirement.

Well, do you follow blindly and not question anything?

Sorry I have a mind of my own and logic to go along with it.

None of the ships you mentioned that have skills listed under required should be that way. I didn't look through all the ship requirements before I posted this. CCP knows what other ships

There should be no armor, drone, electronic systems, engineering, gunnery, missile, on and on, skills under requirements ships. That is what mastery is for.

There is no logic in adding random skills under a ships required section.

I can fly an archon without advanced weapon upgrades V (just an example, plug any other skill in there you like). Whether I do or not "should" be my decision. I don't need anyone to hold my hand or tell me how to fit my ship. I can blow crap up on my own just fine.

If you have a problem with the way things work, that's fine and you can say so. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree with you (hint: we don't). And one way or another, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this particular change.

Or you just infantile.

You just "ass"ume I need a baston module.

Well, do you follow blindly and not question anything?

Sorry I have a mind of my own and logic to go along with it.

Who are you?

only a fool would fly a maurauder with out bastion now a days (excluding non VG incursions)

Just bite it and train the dam skills already, you'll be better for it.

All of which is irrelevant to the fact, requirements that are not required.

Sour grapes. How is putting skill reqs on marauders any different then any other skill requirements on anything?

I question the thinking behind having such a long skill requirement to fit bastion module (and subsequently to fly the marauder). Do CCP think we subscribe to get that skill and hate our time before we get that skill, or because we enjoy playing and will subscribe even if we had trained all skills to level 5 long ago?

The game is about making isk, which is what most of ccp's training sessions are on.

Do you just spew ignorant crap on the forums to advertise the garbage in your tagline?

Just bite it and train the dam skills already, you'll be better for it.

That's not the point of the thread.

I have it partly trained, but I keep switching around. I will get it trained if I play that long, and it would have been done years ago if the game was entertaining enough. If I'm not playing I close the account so I don't have to think about it anymore.

All of which is irrelevant to the fact, requirements that are not required.

this game is not about either making isk, getting kills, or owning space, IT'S A GAME! IT'S ABOUT HAVING FUN!

Hmmm, I'm having a hard time following what your point actually is...

I personally have no problems with the skills requirements the way they are now for this class of ship (it is a good reflection of how advanced you need to be inorder to fly an advanced ship)... now they actually serve a definite purpose...

Bridging the gap between the subs and capitals...

I don't care about the baston module, that's a separate discussion.

You should,
largely because it isn't,
its the one were having now.

the ships were balanced around bastion and its pre requisites are rightly considered to be associated with the hull,
because that's what its for now.

If you cant use the bastion, you should not be in the hull as without it, the ship is unfit for its purpose.

*snip*
It doesn't really matter if you are able to grasp the concept.

the whole reasoning behind why ships have none ship skills has been explained pointed out and all but drummed into you are you still holding that this is a good idea?