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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.17 04:06:00 -
[121]
 Quote:
Read the declaration of principles and the statement as written. I have said everything on that matter I am empowered to do so. The NVA is a representative council of the NVA member corps. All such decisions will be made by formal vote.
Is that a yes?
Or better is that your old "mouthpiece" position. For all your recent words you seem to speak the same old ones when forced to answer a question.
And I would realy like to know. Screw the fact that I'm in TTI. I don't like griefers and pirates... period. Answer the freaking question straight.
Or step the hell down and go blow out of town.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.09.17 08:11:00 -
[122]
Quote:
A gentleman always apologises to a lady, even if that gentleman is wrong (which u are) 
You Gallente women are as thick as thieves...
...and before anyone accuses me of flaming that has nothing to do with their intelligence!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 13:17:00 -
[123]
Shar Tegral you really are a master of hypocrisy.
Quote:
And I would realy like to know. Screw the fact that I'm in TTI. I don't like griefers and pirates... period. Answer the freaking question straight.
How can you be in Taggart Transpiratical and not love griefers and pirates? ThatÆs the damn question.
As for the one I was asked? How can I answer it? I was asked I would throw corporations out of the NVA for pirating neutrals. Answer ôNOö à you know why? I think you do. Because I do not run the NVA, I am the CEO of a member corp with one vote amongst 25. Would I vote for the expulsion of corp that practised pirating neutrals? ôYESö. Do I think the NVA as a whole would vote for expulsion? ôYESö.
So back to some questions for you now,
Will you leave TTI because your personal morality is in complete opposition to TaggartÆs alliance and dependence on pirate corporations to fight their war?
YES/NO
Are you a critically compromised hypocrite for staying thus far in contradiction of your stated morals?
YES/NO (if NO please give reasons to support your answer)
Answers please Shar Tegral
JF Public Forum |
Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.17 13:31:00 -
[124]
Quote:
Shar Tegral you really are a master of I was asked I would throw corporations out of the NVA for pirating neutrals. Answer ôNOö à you know why? I think you do. Because I do not run the NVA, I am the CEO of a member corp with one vote amongst 25. Would I vote for the expulsion of corp that practised pirating neutrals? ôYESö. Do I think the NVA as a whole would vote for expulsion? ôYESö.
That's a change of tone from the initial days of the NVA. At that time I recall you saying that the NVA would ensure that piracy would not be allowed, that it you were fighting for freedom and the rights of all to travel in Venal whoever they may be. The clear implication was that the NVA would not allow pirate corps to join as a matter of principle.
Now it seems my sceptism was justified. Once again the principles have been thrown out in favour of pragmatism. Nothing wrong with that per se, except for the blinding hypocracy between your words on behalf of the NVA and its subsequent actions. I suspected then, and now it seems to be confirmed, that principles never had any place in the NVA beyond useful spin for the war effort. It seems that now things are returning to normal, less TTI in the equation, of course.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 13:47:00 -
[125]
What on earth? How is that a change of tone? We have 25 member corporations and the massive majority of them are fully in-favour of the anti-piratical/free-space agenda. Read the declaration of principles mÆdear, to join the NVA you have to agree to be bound by them. When we declared we were 7 corporations; that means 18 have come on board by agreeing that declaration. Do the numbers. Even if the original 7 were all pirates! (which obviously having drafted the declaration they were not) that still means that a majority in favour of the anti piratical pledge and free-space promise.
No pirate corps have joined. Simple enough for you!
The facts do not support your conclusions.
I recommend you go back and re-read them.
JF Public Forum |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.17 13:53:00 -
[126]
There is a draft constitution and it needs to looked at by all member corps, amended if necessary and voted on, urgently. This will be available to all and open to scrutiny. Until that happens it is *impossible* to put a precise position down on behalf of the alliance, but we can state our own positions, as has been done already.
To the best of my knowledge the numbers of incidents of what can arguably be called piracy by individual NVA members since the formation of the NVA can be counted on the fingers of one hand (if that) and, again, to the best of my knowledge these have been dealt with. This is completely opposite to what the situation was with VA members. There is no doubt when you're in the NVA channel what the general opinion is on piracy and all we're waiting for is this general opinion to be ratified. This may seem like pointless bureaucracy but the alternative is to take one sided and off-the-cuff actions such as TTi did. The point of the council is for everyone to have a say and to ensure that any alliance decisions are made with the full and open knowledge of all alliance members and that everyone has a fair say. If people have complaints against NVA corps or members then they are equally free to ask for them to be presented to the council.
If you assume all members of a large organisation, other than the Amarrian Government of course, are saints and angels then you are doomed to failure. We will not be making that mistake, but we will be ensuring that any real issues are addressed in ways that are actually likely to have an effect.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:24:00 -
[127]
Draft Constitution of the NVA....
""We, the people of the NVA, in order to provide for the common welfare state, skim off everyone's profits, holdup the standards of spinning, attacks on the wealthy, and general supporting of looters, do hereby establish and ordain this constitution or mockery therefore.""
Article One: "Freedom of speech is a joke. If you do not march lock step with Jade Constanspin, your not welcome in the NVA."
Article Two: "All corporations will be subject to a progressive defense levy. Where does that money go? Well, itÆs a fair social thing, so quit asking for specifics."
Article Three: "Anyone who makes large amounts of money and doesn't share it with everyone will be demonized and griefed out of the game."
_____________________________
With people like these in a bloody game, is it any wonder that socialism rules the world, free enterprise is hated, and the goose stepping goons of idiocy run roughshod over intelligent men?
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces
(A divison of Israeli Space Corporation) |
Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:28:00 -
[128]
Answer me this Jade.
Are Keepers of the Blue Flame and Venal Guardians part of the NVA?
-Necro
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Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:37:00 -
[129]
Quote:
What on earth? How is that a change of tone? We have 25 member corporations and the massive majority of them are fully in-favour of the anti-piratical/free-space agenda. Read the declaration of principles mÆdear, to join the NVA you have to agree to be bound by them. When we declared we were 7 corporations; that means 18 have come on board by agreeing that declaration. Do the numbers. Even if the original 7 were all pirates! (which obviously having drafted the declaration they were not) that still means that a majority in favour of the anti piratical pledge and free-space promise.
No pirate corps have joined. Simple enough for you!
The facts do not support your conclusions.
I recommend you go back and re-read them.
Your rhetoric is obviously slipping Jade. I based my last post entirely on your own statements, which most certainly did not come out with the NVA condemning piracy and stated that if a majority came out in favour you would go with that majority whether it was against your principles (and your initially stated founding principles of the VNA) or not. A bit more consistency in your spin is called for I think.
At the moment your value as spokesperson is lacking with both the tone and direction changing as time progresses. If I were you I'd leave it to your colleague Athule who answered my same post in a much more straightforward manner, addressing the points raised precisely and without much waffle. He's admitted there's a potential problem and that the declaration you have referred to above has yet to actually be ratified and that that needs to be done asap.
And one last thing: I am not your dear. That kind of familiarity is not warranted or granted and goes back to my comment on the tone of your posts.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:37:00 -
[130]
Quote:
Are Keepers of the Blue Flame and Venal Guardians part of the NVA?
I suggest you start at the beginning of this thread Tehel, and keep reading.
JF Public Forum |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:46:00 -
[131]
Quote:
How can you be in Taggart Transpiratical and not love griefers and pirates? ThatÆs the damn question.
Actually my position on this is very well known within TTI. Troublemaker I am sometimes called, hypocrit I am not.
Quote:
Will you leave TTI because your personal morality is in complete opposition to TaggartÆs alliance and dependence on pirate corporations to fight their war?
No.
Quote:
Are you a critically compromised hypocrite for staying thus far in contradiction of your stated morals?
No.
However I am very glad to see that you have answered what appears to be truthfully. You are right... you can't make those types of decisions unlaterally. You can only make your opinion known and hope that it doesn't cause a rift....
Oh... wait... Damn you might have learned from the earlier debacle.
But is seems that you understand the position of not always having things as you would have them yet continuing on your course. And yet you want to call TTI members a variety of despicable things for being in the same boat?
I -would- consider letting you anywhere near me with the hypocracy brush if you only apply a healthy coat to thyself first.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:46:00 -
[132]
Quote:
New Venal Alliance:
Allied Members List
[BLADE] Bladerunners
[BURN] Keepers of the Blue Flame
[C.C] Cult of Cthulhu
[C-C] Cryogenic Consultancy
[CDI] Cyberdyne Industries
[CUMT] Curtiss Militech
[CYB] Cyberdine Systems
[FGH] Fighters of Heineken
[GLC] Galactico
[GODS] Generals of Destruction Syndicate
[GOF] Grumpy old Farts
[JERIC] Jericho Fraction
[KIA] KIA Corp
[MDI] Manifest Destiny Inc.
[OCC] Occassus Republica
[PAIN] The Pain Syndicate
[PID] Pardon Inc.
[RAVEN] Ravens of Valhalla
[RIVER] River Deep
[RKK] Reikoku
[RONA] Rona Corporation
[SJT] Sirjay Technologies
[VG] Venal Guardians
[ZONE] Zone of Control
So we are agreed, their a member of the NVA?
Simple Yes or No will sufice.
-Necro
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:49:00 -
[133]
Georg, georg, my poor little fruitcake.
Quote:
ôYour rhetoric is obviously slipping Jade. I based my last post entirely on your own statementsö
No you didnÆt, and you also intentionally technically misquoted me by snipping out words.
Quote:
ôwhich most certainly did not come out with the NVA condemning piracy and stated that if a majority came out in favour you would go with that majority whether it was against your principlesö
No I didnÆt. Now you are blatantly lying.
Quote:
ôA bit more consistency in your spin is called for I think.ö
No just a bit more honesty from muppets like you,
Quote:
ôAt the moment your value as spokesperson is lacking with both the tone and direction changing as time progresses.ö
Not true, and you are still lying mÆdear
Quote:
ôAnd one last thing: I am not your dear. That kind of familiarity is not warranted or granted and goes back to my comment on the tone of your posts.ö
And do I care? MÆdear. You have come out of closet as a misquoter, a liar, an idiot, and a pointless waste of electrons. I could care less what you think and what you write. Welcome to trollsville.
And if you take exception to that you have the option of joining the Taggart Transpiratical alliance and putting your money where your mouth is.
Have a nice day! m'dear
JF Public Forum |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:53:00 -
[134]
Quote:
Quote:
What on earth? How is that a change of tone? We have 25 member corporations and the massive majority of them are fully in-favour of the anti-piratical/free-space agenda. Read the declaration of principles mÆdear, to join the NVA you have to agree to be bound by them. When we declared we were 7 corporations; that means 18 have come on board by agreeing that declaration. Do the numbers. Even if the original 7 were all pirates! (which obviously having drafted the declaration they were not) that still means that a majority in favour of the anti piratical pledge and free-space promise.
No pirate corps have joined. Simple enough for you!
The facts do not support your conclusions.
I recommend you go back and re-read them.
Your rhetoric is obviously slipping Jade. I based my last post entirely on your own statements, which most certainly did not come out with the NVA condemning piracy and stated that if a majority came out in favour you would go with that majority whether it was against your principles (and your initially stated founding principles of the VNA) or not. A bit more consistency in your spin is called for I think.
At the moment your value as spokesperson is lacking with both the tone and direction changing as time progresses. If I were you I'd leave it to your colleague Athule who answered my same post in a much more straightforward manner, addressing the points raised precisely and without much waffle. He's admitted there's a potential problem and that the declaration you have referred to above has yet to actually be ratified and that that needs to be done asap.
And one last thing: I am not your dear. That kind of familiarity is not warranted or granted and goes back to my comment on the tone of your posts.
Why so hostile? Maybe you need more fiber.
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Endyl
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:54:00 -
[135]
>With people like these in a bloody game, is it
>any wonder that socialism rules the world,
>free enterprise is hated, and the goose
>stepping goons of idiocy run roughshod over
>intelligent men?
And in your superior world system, only people who agree with your political opinions are not stupid, and if we agree with you we become intelligent mens ?
That's why socialism rule the world, you see, because it have an open mind, even retards like you can find a spot in our world.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:55:00 -
[136]
Shar you failed to completely answer my question.
Quote:
Are you a critically compromised hypocrite for staying thus far in contradiction of your stated morals?
YES/NO (if NO please give reasons to support your answer)
JF Public Forum |
Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:55:00 -
[137]
CALM DOWN JADE.
Is that wrinkles i see?
-Necro
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Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:57:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 17/09/2003 14:58:08
Quote:
Shar you failed to completely answer my question.
Quote:
Are you a critically compromised hypocrite for staying thus far in contradiction of your stated morals?
YES/NO (if NO please give reasons to support your answer)
And you've completley avoided mine also.
-Necro
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Karif
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Posted - 2003.09.17 14:59:00 -
[139]
With people like these in a bloody game, is it any wonder that socialism rules the world, free enterprise is hated, and the goose stepping goons of idiocy run roughshod over intelligent men?
I'm impressed at the depth and breadth of the ignorance displayed, and the sheer levels of ineptitude required to lead someone to this kind of conclusion.
Tell us another good one, I haven't laughed this loud for days.
===============================
Deception + Information + Skill |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:03:00 -
[140]
Quote:
And you've completley avoided mine also.
I don't need to answer yours tehel because you have quoted the statement to the effect from the original post in this thread. Honestly if you Taggart types were any more anal you'd disappear entirely up your own backsides and save us the bother of blasting your tawdry little pirate empire into the stone-age.
JF Public Forum |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:11:00 -
[141]
Also Georg in my little corner of the world it is common for ladies to call a gentleman dear, honey, sweetie or other forms of address even if they are strangers. It is a form of coutesy and as such it is truely bad form to to be a jerk about it.
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Tehel Necrona
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:13:00 -
[142]
Jade your either inept at reading or have not given me the honour of reading my entire post.
I simply want you, to say that Venal Guardians and Keepers of the Blue Flame are members of The New Venal Alliance, an alliance which you have, in this very thread, stated as being a None Pirate Alliance.
If you refuse to answer the question, i can only assume that you feel uncomfortable with it, and i know very well why, however the people reading have no idea. So i suggest, unless you want me to inform them that you come out and answer the damn question.
Or deflect it, in fact i'm rather hoping you do.
-Necro
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:17:00 -
[143]
I believe that I have answered your question in full. Forgive me if it is misleading as I put an "actual opinion" in there but didn't leave an arrow for the reading challenged.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:18:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Georg on 17/09/2003 15:31:04
Quote:
Georg, georg, my poor little fruitcake.
I had though better of you than name calling, but so be it.
Quote:
Quote:
ôwhich most certainly did not come out with the NVA condemning piracy and stated that if a majority came out in favour you would go with that majority whether it was against your principlesö
No I didnÆt. Now you are blatantly lying.
Jade, earlier in the thread: "As for the one I was asked? How can I answer it? I was asked I would throw corporations out of the NVA for pirating neutrals. Answer ôNOö à you know why? I think you do. Because I do not run the NVA, I am the CEO of a member corp with one vote amongst 25. Would I vote for the expulsion of corp that practised pirating neutrals? ôYESö. Do I think the NVA as a whole would vote for expulsion? ôYESö."
Now to me that reads that a) the if the NVA voted to allow piracy Jericho would go along with the majority and b) the matter is a question for the vote and hence not the absolute principle the early NVA statements said it was.
Quote:
Quote:
ôAt the moment your value as spokesperson is lacking with both the tone and direction changing as time progresses.ö
Not true, and you are still lying mÆdear
One only needs to read back over the last couple of weeks to see that I am not lying.
Quote:
Quote:
ôAnd one last thing: I am not your dear. That kind of familiarity is not warranted or granted and goes back to my comment on the tone of your posts.ö
And do I care? MÆdear. You have come out of closet as a misquoter, a liar, an idiot, and a pointless waste of electrons. I could care less what you think and what you write. Welcome to trollsville.
You obviously don't care which makes you both rude and unprofessional, of which you were neither a couple of weeks ago.
Others can judge whether I am misquoting and lying and I believe they will judge in my favour. It is really a shame to see you sinking from the standard of debate you once had to increasingly using more personal attacks, something that is becoming much more frequent in all your posts.
And to be clear one more time, I have no intention of joining TTI: the one thing you are right about is their underhand tactics.
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Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:24:00 -
[145]
Quote:
Why so hostile? Maybe you need more fiber.
You could be right there :)
It's just that I see the NVA, or at least some of its more vocal members, as a massive spin machine espousing principles that it never felt, or at least acted upon, prior to the recent conflict in Venal as reasons as to why it is the side of right and freedom. From reports it would seem that these principles may be slipping, and despite the fact Jade accuses me of lying, she herself has been less than absolute on the question in some of her recent posts.
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Killgorde
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:27:00 -
[146]
Quote:
With people like these in a bloody game, is it any wonder that socialism rules the world, free enterprise is hated, and the goose stepping goons of idiocy run roughshod over intelligent men?
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces
The informed majority of Eve have a simple choice to make: Whether to believe what Jade tells them or to believe the words of her detractors. When some of said detractors (such as yourself) post mindless drivel in an attempt to discredit her, is it any wonder she always comes out on top? Which TTI alt are you Mr Cohen? If you want a bit of honesty from Ms Constantine perhaps you should first come clean yourself on your true affiliation?
Hard Fact: Ragnar bolloxed up big time - this error of judgement was compounded by a subsequent inability to swallow his pride and devour humble pie. Everything else is window-dressing, Mr Cohen, no matter how hard you try to pump out an effective smokescreen (and fail dismally in the attempt).
What ****es me off is the good players of TTI I knew in beta becoming disillusioned and leaving a game that can ill afford their loss while the corp travels aimlessy down ****creek without a paddle or rudder (as seems the case to the casual observer).
/Salutes
Killgorde
CEO - Cutting Edge Incorporated
"I thought I saw a light at the end of the tunnel but it turned out to be some bastard with a torch in one hand and a ****load more work for me in the other" |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:28:00 -
[147]
And here is why I use personal attacks with morons m'dear.
Quote:
Now to me that reads that a) the if the NVA voted to allow piracy Jericho would go along with the majority and b) the matter is a question for the vote and hence not the absolute principle the early NVA statements said it was.
"Now to me that reads"
So actually you admit now it was your interpretation not my statement?
An interpretation to the effect that I would continue to remain in an NVA that came to be dominated by piratical corporations.
You didn't ask me the question.
You assumed that I and Jericho would remain in the NVA if majority vote rejected the declaration of principles.
And assuming that, you then presented it as a direct quote of what I had said.
In this you were lying.
You had only personal interpretation not my words to build your argument on.
Admit this m'dear, and I may consider your comments worthy of note again.
Admit this not and I simply don't care about you.
The past couple of weeks have been ripe with liars and hypocrits and sychophants, I do not chose to waste my time pandering to them.
Intentional false-quoting of my words is never going to earn you a great deal of respect beyond the Taggart Transpiratical camp.
If you want to know want I will do in the unlikely event of NVA voting to reject the principles and go pirate. Just ask.
Don't assume.
It really does make an ass out of you.
JF Public Forum |
Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:30:00 -
[148]
Quote:
Also Georg in my little corner of the world it is common for ladies to call a gentleman dear, honey, sweetie or other forms of address even if they are strangers. It is a form of coutesy and as such it is truely bad form to to be a jerk about it.
As you can tell, not in my part of the world, at least until there has been some form of personal introduction. I feel it is out of place in debate and is rendering her tone patronising, probably unintentionally. I don;t regard it as a big deal, but I did feel it worth commenting on at the end of a post.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:38:00 -
[149]
Georg ... in another thread you posted this statement which is totally untrue and does not accurately reflect any statement I have ever made.
[Georg]
Quote:
... in which you stated that if the majority position in the NVA was to allow piracy against neutrals in Venal then your corp would go along with it, even if it was against your own principles.
I have never said that. I do not agree with that. And you are simply making it up.
That makes you a liar in my book.
As a liar you are worthy of no respect.
Apologise and retract and maybe we will get somewhere.
JF Public Forum |
Georg
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Posted - 2003.09.17 15:58:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Georg on 17/09/2003 16:05:08
Let's leave your original words in there so that others may judge on the whole instead of a selection.
Quote:
Quote:
Jade said earlier in this thread: "As for the one I was asked? How can I answer it? I was asked I would throw corporations out of the NVA for pirating neutrals. Answer ôNOö à you know why? I think you do. Because I do not run the NVA, I am the CEO of a member corp with one vote amongst 25. Would I vote for the expulsion of corp that practised pirating neutrals? ôYESö. Do I think the NVA as a whole would vote for expulsion? ôYESö."
Now to me that reads that a) the if the NVA voted to allow piracy Jericho would go along with the majority and b) the matter is a question for the vote and hence not the absolute principle the early NVA statements said it was.
"Now to me that reads"
So actually you admit now it was your interpretation not my statement?
Any conversation is based on interpretation, and this was indeed based on my interpretation of what you said, based on your words and actions.
Quote:
An interpretation to the effect that I would continue to remain in an NVA that came to be dominated by piratical corporations.
You didn't ask me the question.
You assumed that I and Jericho would remain in the NVA if majority vote rejected the declaration of principles.
And assuming that, you then presented it as a direct quote of what I had said.
In this you were lying.
Let's analyse it. You say you cannot expel a corp for piracy for quite valid reasons. However, you then go on to say that it would come down to a vote of the member corporations. Now as I understand the Principles piracy should be absolutely prohibited, so I do not understand how a vote would be needed to decide whether a corp should be expelled for such actions. If a vote is needed, as you say it would be, then that is a drift from the stated Principles.
Now it is quite correct to state that you did not say explicitly that Jericho would or would not go along with this. However, my inference that you would go along is based on two factors: 1) in the past Jericho was a willing member of the VA which certainly had pirate corps within its ranks and 2) you make great weight of the voting process within the Council. On the latter point, it would negate the whole setup if corps left every time they lost the vote, a situation which almost led to the current Venal conflict with the weird exception that TTI left when they won a vote.
Are you now saying that Jericho would leave the NVA if a pirate corp was allowed to remain by a Council vote? If that is the case, why did Jericho knowingly associate itself with just that situation previously, and in fact still would be doing so, if it wasn't for the inexplicable actions of TTI?
Quote:
You had only personal interpretation not my words to build your argument on.
I had your words which implied a course of action within the NVA which was at odds with the Principles.
I did indeed make an assumption for Jericho's actions based on the outcome which was based on Jericho's past behaviour and the fact that leaving the NVA over a lost vote would make the whole setup unworkable as TTI has shown by their actions.
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